Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design

aaron's weblog — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:43:00 GMT

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Geoff Appleby — Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:03:00 GMT

OK, here we go for round two! Design 3: 1 - 7 2 - 7 Design 4: 1 - 7 2 - 3 I much prefer design 3 over design 4 - there's more room for the text, and it..just looks nicer. Compared with last time, I still prefer design three overall - it's exactly the outcome I wanted when reviewing designs 1 and 2. Sub Comment/Whinge/Request :) In your screenshots, you have Form1.cs open in the document area. The tab up the top (Form1.cs [Design]) - doesn't look as good. Can you switch it so that the cut off corner is on the right instead of the left? It'd be more readable if the text started aligned with a straight edge. The end of the text can have the cut off and still be readable :) --Geoff

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Bjoern Graf — Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:07:00 GMT

Design #3: 1: 7 2: 7 Design #4: 1: 7 2: 4 I like D#3 more than D#2 (and D#4 for that matter) because it keeps the space for the (active) icon and utilizes the finn style of the file tab channel.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Eric — Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:14:00 GMT

Design #3 1) 8 2) 7 - Seems to disjoined and not symetrical. Design #4 1) 8 2) 8 Designs 3 and 4 are much better then 1 and 2

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Sean — Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:18:00 GMT

Design 3: 1: 7 2: 6 Design 4: 1: 7 2: 4 Nice job. Easy to see the active tab. Only problem I have with Design 4 is possible truncation of text.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Trevor — Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:40:00 GMT

Both designs solve the active tab issue. I prefer design #4 over the other 3. Design #3 Easy to see - 6 Aesthetically pleasing - 6 Design #4 Easy to see - 6 Aesthetically pleasing - 7

Re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Jazzynupe@sbcglobal.net (Richard Norman) — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:45:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 6
2. 5

Design #4
1. 7
2. 6

I definetly like these designs better than the previous two, it was just the color of the first one that threw it off for me. I like the rounded corners, I just get concerned about spacing when you have many more tabs across the bottom. But overall, I like most of the more recent ones. I think I like #3 a tad more than #4, but only because of the concern about spacing.

VS Team asking for more feedback

Deep Thoughts... — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 02:45:00 GMT

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Robert McLaws — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 01:03:00 GMT

#3 looks better IMO. Reminds me more of file folder tabs in a file cabinet.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Zoran Simic — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 04:31:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 7
2. 6

Design #4
1. 7
2. 5

3 tabs next to each other would be better: 3 tabs on the left pane, 3 on the right. And you could make the 1st left and 2nd right active in the 1st sceenshot, then the 2nd left and the 3rd right active on the 2nd screenshot. Also, showing 3 vertical tabs with one of them active would help judge them in a vertical position too.
Smaller screenshots would make it easier to compare, put the emphasis on the tabs....

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Aaron Brethorst — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 06:45:00 GMT

Hey Zoran - Vertical tabs are never active. You can see this in VS 2002, 2003, or 2005 Beta 1. You can click on a collapsed vertical tab, but doing so won't modify the appearance of the tab, but instead cause the tool window to appear.

Cheers,
Aaron

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

RonO — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 13:02:00 GMT

3.1 - 7
3.2 - 6

4.1 - 7
4.2 - 3

Right now, I prefer 3 over 2 (but only just).

Side issue:
Is there a reason for not allowing the inactive horizontal tabs to stand out? It's done for the verticle tabs in the pictures.

Here's what I'd like to see:

http://www.r-orourkes.org/images/TabsC_1_alternate.png
http://www.r-orourkes.org/images/TabsC_2_alternate.png

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Dmitry Pavlov — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 14:06:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 7
2. 7

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Jody Kelsch — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 15:12:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 7
2. 7

Design #4
1. 7
2. 5

I like #3 better. It just seems to feel better on the Eyes.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Bjoern Graf — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 16:50:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 7
2. 7

Design #4
1. 7
2. 4

I like Design #3 more than the other because it gives the tabs icon enough room to be and continues the fin tab scheme from the file tab channel.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

saurabh nandu — Thu, 17 Mar 2005 17:34:00 GMT

Design 3: 7
Design 4: 4

In the 4th design the tabs are too narrow. Making them look ugly.

Also the designs here are better than the earlier ones.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Ron Stahl — Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:12:00 GMT

Design 3:
1. 7
2. 7

Design 4:
1. 7
2. 3

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

AT — Sat, 19 Mar 2005 19:46:00 GMT

Make all of them as an option or better allow us to create own skins.

P.S> Personally, I do not care about all of those designs.
Even with current UI design users able to understand there are they now (after some training for sure).
I prefer VS teams focus on value-added features, not enhancements.

Sure, it will be pretty nice to include new screenshots in some favorable sponsored-by-MS review in well-known magazine - but IMHO this must NOT be major selling point.

P.P.S> (Plz, Do not blame messanger) I've seen something similar in Eclipse™ ;-))

Legal: Eclipse, Built on Eclipse and Eclipse Ready are trademarks of Eclipse Foundation, Inc.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Alex — Sun, 20 Mar 2005 01:45:00 GMT

These don't look very xp'ish and that is a bummer.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Shane S. Anderson — Sun, 20 Mar 2005 04:10:00 GMT

Design #3
7
7

Design #4
7
5

They both look better than the old designs, and a lot easier to see which tab is active.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

James O'Doherty — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 16:56:00 GMT

Design #3
7
7

Design #4
6
5

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Stewart Whaley — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 19:14:00 GMT

I'd like to see a mockup with 3 tabs. But if I have to choose one, it's:

Design #3:
1) 7
2) 5

Design #4:
1) 7
2) 4

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

TS — Mon, 21 Mar 2005 20:16:00 GMT

Both are a big improvement over the previous 2.

Design 3:
1. 7
2. 7

Design 4:
1. 6
2. 6

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Gordon Mackie — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:50:00 GMT

Design #3
1. 8
2. 8

Design #2
1. 7
2. 7

Both look better than the previous two - #3 is marginally the more aesthetically pleasing.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

David van Leerdam — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:46:00 GMT

Design 3: 6 and 7
Design 4: 7 and 7

I like design 4 more then design 2, it's much neater and even more useful in my opinion.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Adrian O'Connor — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:26:00 GMT

Both of these designs remind me of the old Lotus PIM inspired interfaces of the early 90's, where form came before function.

Design #2 was practical and smart. These designs (#3/#4) are not easy to digest without some thought process. They will also date very quickly.

Can I also say that I much /much/ prefer the open-document tab bar that you used in VS2003 to the slanty-edged tabs we have in Whidbey. It's my opinion that you have forgotten the adage 'less is more'. I very much respected the VS2003 interface.

Thank you,
Adrian

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Mike Sarkissian — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:07:00 GMT

I like Both of them but here is my rating

Design #3:
1- 6
2- 5

Design #4:
1- 7
2- 6

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Matthias Krause — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:56:00 GMT

Design 3:
1.7
2.7

Design 3:
1.7
2.5

suggestion: adopt also the tabs on the right side to that style, please dont use different tabshapes for horizontal and vertical tabs. thanx in advance, looking forward iteration 3

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Eric Carlson — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:57:00 GMT

Design 3 is not consistent. The tabs appear to be different shapes when selected/not selected. They do not seem to model the physical interface that tabs are designed to represent.

Design 3:
1. 7
2. 4

Design 4:
1. 7
1. 7

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Marco Goertz — Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:25:00 GMT

3.1: 7
3.2: 5

4.1: 7
4.2: 2

As I stated in the first round, I strongly prefer using the same tab style throughout the IDE, i.e. using the one-sided slant. However, from the screenshots above it is pretty apparent that the tabs still use different drawing code. The slanting angle is different and the rounding looks quite different as well. But otherwise I would say you are on the right track with design #3.

It would be nice to see the exact same tab style on the tool windows and compare slanting to the right vs. slanting to the left.

Also, how about using a thin blue border for the active tab (as it is done for the MDI tab) instead of the gray one?

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Danny Allen — Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:14:00 GMT

Design 3:
1.7
2.7

Design 3:
1.7
2.5

I would like to see the horizontal tabs look like the vertical tabs seen in the images.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Ray Wilson — Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:03:00 GMT

Design 3
1 = 7
2 = 7

Design 4
1 = 7
2 = 5

I liked 3 better than any other including 1 and 2

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

John Bowen — Thu, 24 Mar 2005 13:53:00 GMT

I prefer design #3
1 - 8
2 -7

design #4
1- 8
2- 5

My concerns is that the icon and the curved tabs take up too much room. What might be nice is the magnification as a mouse over, much like the Mac interface, would allow quick identification and use from a crowded space.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

SEWilson — Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:15:00 GMT

On Style:

The outlook 2003 styled tabs in Design 3 are ugly. The rounded tabs of Design 4 (from Design 1) are more pleasing but could use less of a slant, a more pronounced bend, and a *little* more padding on the bottom left and right edges.

On Color:

The darker color used for inactive tabs is necessary, howoever the tabs should be using a gradient (vert or horiz depending on tab placement). The color on the edge of the tab that connects the tab to the content should be 'Control', the other edge I'll refer to as the tab 'tip', the tip of the active tab should be control light, the tip of the inactive tabs should be control Dark Control or a more pronounced 'Dark Dark Control' color. The active tip will need a highlight along the edge of 'Light Light Control' in order to make it aesthetically pleasing. The inactive tabs should appear 'flat', don't attempt to bevel/highlight them like you would the active tab.

On Usability:

The flat color that practically melts into the background, IMO, has been the ugliest, most unusable hogwash ever paid for by Microsoft, especially when you introduce more than just a few tabs, tabs become almost totally unreadable without your eyes jerking like you're a drunk. It reminds me of the old popup-style tabstrip control, just horrible from a usability perspective, even when you add dividers or icons there just isn't enough contrast!

On visibility, recognition of the current tab. TOTALLY UNIMPORTANT. You have a clear tab TITLE, you have obvious tab CONTENT. Your ratings should be asking on overall readability of the tabs, not just the visibility of the active tab. It's when you need to locate things which are NOT active that the tabs become most important, and I think the proposed, and current, tab style fails to deliver ease of use for anything but the intro user asking himself "gee, what is that?"

For this reason I favor Design 1, but I think it does need some tweaking.

On Aesthetics:

I like tabs most when they don't seem to impose a border or color shift from the tab to the panel background. I dislike that there is a small space between the tab button and the panel content, made most visible because the panel content has a border on it and the background used on a highlighted tab is lighter than SystemColors.Control, that anomaly is being introduced by the tabs and I think it needs to be removed.

Ideally you would want your tabs to meet up flush with the tab panel/content, so that the tab buttons appear to be part of the tab. You would want the tab color bordering the panel to be exact or similar to the standard control color. This is the appearance the original, and almost all tab/docking implementations, provide.

For example look at designs 3 and 4 on the right the "Solution Explorer" tab imposes a border between itself and the tab content, there are no endcaps on the bar so there's a total color clash between the tab button and the container background.

P.S. I'm glad this came up because this has been bugging me for years. Everytime I need to find a specific tab, I'm hunting through a tab strip that is either too dark, poorly delineated or just an eyesore (for example the tab styles in design 3, ugly, they are a hack to fix the fack your slant is excessive and L/R padding too small, because the icon/glyph looks awkward.)

If someone does a mock-up in PS/PSP to get a feel for how what I described would look please post it. I'd like to see it personally.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

SEWilson — Thu, 24 Mar 2005 16:25:00 GMT

I forgot:

You should add "rating 3, inactive tabs are easy to read."; however, you will need a 3rd tab group somewhere that has like 6 tabs to provide an effective visual test, right now your visual accuity tests are all black or white, there's only ever two tabs to identify, but we all know many groups in vs have an average of 4, and sometimes up to 8 depending on the work we're doing.

#1: 1=5, 2=6, 3=5
#2: 1=7, 2=2, 3=1
#3: 1=7, 2=1, 3=1
#4: 1=7, 2=5, 3=1

Reminds me of that old "you can have any 2, good, cheap or fast" quesstion, except you guys obviously have the means to choose more than just two features.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

anonymous — Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:53:00 GMT

#2/#3 offer the best combination of visuals/functionality out of these all... but if you're shooting for "WinXP-inspired design" why not simply use the 'default' system tabs? Let the *user* pick the skin/colour combination *they* are most comfortable with, and that will blend nicely with the rest of their UI...

Feedback for Whidbey tabs (which do you prefer?)

Thushan Fernando — Mon, 28 Mar 2005 04:04:00 GMT

Just saw this on Aaron Brethorst blog, the vS.NET team is looking for feedback on the tabs in Whidbey...

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Jay Kappel — Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:42:00 GMT

I have to say that overall I prefer design #2 the best. I give it a 7 for woth categories.

Design #1: 2, 2
Design #2: 7, 7
Design #3: 7, 5
Design #4: 7, 2

Thanks for considering our humble opinions!

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Jacek Kucharzewski — Tue, 29 Mar 2005 14:16:00 GMT

Design 1:
1. 4
2. 1
Design 2:
1. 7
2. 2
Design 3:
1. 7
2. 6
Design 4:
1. 7
2. 1
For designs 2 to 4, if there's more than 2 tabs is there any delimiter between two neibouring horizontal unselected tabs, or the text would go as a single flow (like Solution Explorer Server Explorer)?

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

robert — Wed, 30 Mar 2005 20:17:00 GMT

I like Design 4 the best Design 3 1. 7 2. 7 Dsign 4 1. 7 2. 7

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Sten — Thu, 31 Mar 2005 04:53:00 GMT

Design #3 1. 5 2. 5 Design #4 1. 5 2. 5 Design #2 1. 7 2. 7

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Forest — Fri, 01 Apr 2005 04:51:00 GMT

Design 2: 1.7 2.6 Design 3: 1.7 2.4 Design 4: 1.7 2.7 I don't like design 3, because the active tab is not symmetrical.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Adam Wilson — Mon, 04 Apr 2005 18:18:25 GMT

Design 3:
Functionality: 6
Aesthetically: 2

Design 3 looks kind of lopsided, unbalanced might be the better term.

Design 4:
Functionality: 7
Aesthetically: 7

Design 4 looks balanced and clean. Now that it is obvious which tab is in front I would have to say that this is the best design to date, even over deisgn 2.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Jim McMicking — Fri, 08 Apr 2005 16:04:46 GMT

Design 3:
7
5
Design 4:
7
6
Both are better than design 2. I think an improvement on all these designs would be to remove the thin line on the active tab that separates it from the content pane it is attached to. The line makes it look like it's still somehow behind the pane.
Also, if you now are using color to clearly differentiate the active tab, you could go back to a faint tab-shaped outline on the inactive ones. This helps you realize that there are other choices there waiting. Especially when you just opened to the default settings and didn't actually choose any of the tabs manually yet.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Tobbe — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:41:00 GMT

Design 3
1. = 7
2. = 4

I would like to have a contour on the inactive tab
so you can see where it ends.
The only difference between the tabs should be the background color.
And I would like to have
different background color between inactive tab and the common bacground.

A combination of Design 3 and 4

Design 4
1. = 7
2. = 2

liked Design 3 more than 4

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Tobbe — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:43:18 GMT

Wrote wrong in previous post.
I meant a combination of Design 3 and 1.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

ejb3 — Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:39:22 GMT

Design 3
1.6
2.5

Design 4
1.7
2.5

Deisgn 4 incorporated the pleasing aesthetics of Design 1, but increased the ease of recognizing the active tab.

The only reason I rated Design 4 higher on ease of seeing which tab is active is the use of the contour on both sides. Having the curviture on both sides increases how much it stands out as the active tab.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Xepol — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 07:27:29 GMT

Design three:
1. 6
2. 7

Design Four :
1. 7
2. 4

Prefer three to previous designs 1 and 2.

Please show us 4 or more tabs together, then we can better judge the appearance of 2 adjacent unselected tabs!

Thanks.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Will — Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:41:23 GMT

I'm a consultant for a Microsoft gold partner. Of the 4 designs, I'd have to go with:

Design #1 (curvy, hard to see tabs)
1. 3
2. 6

Hard to read, hard to determine the active tab, and pretty ugly. The worst design of the four.

Design #2 (square tabs)
1. 6
2. 6

My favorite. I think it looks nice and not too flashy. The other designs just seems like they would get annoying over time.

Design #3 (quasi-curvy tabs)
1. 6
2. 5

My second favorite. This one looks the most like how real tabs should look. And it's more practical than Design #4, since there's more text space.

Design #4 (very curvy tabs)
1. 6
2. 2

I think this one just looks plain ugly, and not very tab-like at all. Just not practical, and not enough space for the label on the tab.

re: Feedback Requested: Visual Studio 2005 Tab Design Iteration 2

Roman — Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:28:30 GMT

Design #3:
1 -> 7
2 -> 7

Design #4:
1 -> 6
2 -> 6

Design #3 is fitting better with the design of editor's tabs. Perhaps you should consider having a thin border in inactive tabs too, like in those tabs on the right edge (user might have a problem if there are more than two tabs).

Definitely, new designs are MUCH better, than the old designs. My "old" favorite was design #1, but it was a bit too difficult to see which tab is active. These new designs are fixing the problem, but shape of the tabs in #3 is a bit more stylish (#4 looks more old fashioned).

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