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SharePoint Apps Offline and Intro to SharePoint Designer

In the last post, I described how you can publish an Access database to SharePoint.  This time, we'll look at taking that database back offline, making data changes while disconnected, and re-synching.  I'll also briefly discuss updating the thin client version of the application using SharePoint Designer.

Opening the Application from SharePoint

When the database is published to SharePoint, it moves the data into WSS lists and the database front-end into a document library as described in the last post.  Opening the app is as simple as going to the document library and double-clicking:

After double-clicking on the app, you'll be prompted to open read-only or for edit, and since we're making design changes, we'll choose edit.

This causes a local copy to be saved to your machine, so the SaveAs dialog is brought up and you can simply choose a location for the database.

(Click image to enlarge)

The database remembers where it came from in SharePoint, so it is easy to publish changes back to the server by clicking the "Publish to SharePoint Site" button.

(Click image to enlarge)

Working Offline

Taking the application offline, is available with one click from the External Data tab.

Since we've already saved a local copy, we're not prompted to do that again.  When I click "Work Offline" the data from the web is brought down to the local Access file and cached in local tables.  The links to the SharePoint tables are cut, but of course are remembered for resynch. 

Now you're free to update the local data while offline, and the application behaves much like it did online.

(Click image to enlarge)

While the application is offline, of course other users may update data on SharePoint.  They might do this through the browser or through the SharePoint web UI.  Here they're using the Access Grid control:

(Click image to enlarge)

When you return to the network and want to resynchronize changes, it is again one click:

Now however, there are some data conflicts, so you're presented with conflict resolution UI.

(Click image to enlarge)

After resolving any data conflicts, the application is back online, and all changes are made directly against the linked tables.

Updating the Browser UI with SharePoint Designer

SharePoint Designer is a new product that makes it easy to design SharePoint web applications.  You can use it to build a thin client that provides a similar experience to the Access thick client UI.  The first step is to open the SharePoint site in SPD, then either start a new page or open one that you'd like to customize.  In this case we'll customize the All Items view of the Issues list:

(Click image to enlarge)

Then we'll convert the view from a SharePoint List View to a "Data View", which allows extensive customization through XSLT.  This is done from the right-click menu in SPD:

(Click image to enlarge)

Now the data view can be edited directly, and updating the columns and formatting is much like a grid view in Access:

(Click image to enlarge)

SPD has a data source task pane that is quite similar to the Add Existing Field taskpane in Access:

SharePoint Designer provides a rich set of tools for working with both the data and its presentation.  It is based on web technologies, so writing code is quite different, but the general concept and much of the UI is very similar.  For more information on SharePoint Designer, please see Alex Malek's blog and the Office SPD page

Next Time

In the next post, I'll discuss building workflows in SharePoint Designer and using those in Access.  After that, we'll move back to more Access client app developer focused topics.

Posted: Friday, October 13, 2006 11:17 AM by Erik Rucker
Filed under: ,

Comments

David W. Fenton said:

I've got extensive and long-standing experience with Jet replication and am interested in the capabilities of A2K7 and Sharepoint to offer some of the features of Jet replication.

But how can anyone seriously present that conflict resolver graphic as a serious attempt to allow an end user to fix it? Why in the world is the long integer value for 9/27/2006 given for the date instead of a date-formatted value? How could a user know what that date value means?

Has anyone given this any serious testing?

That is, is this a serious effort or not?

# October 13, 2006 9:25 PM

MikeC# said:

Rich,

The SharePoint offline *lists* are in no way similar to JET *database* replication.

Among other things I have made lots of money in building and supporting Access applications over the last 10 years or so.  I know Access inside and out.  I also have done extensive work with SharePoint v1 & v2.  I’ve been studying Access 2007.  Basically, I know what I’m talking about.

The SharePoint to Access offline lists are a pathetic joke!  How M$ can even call a SharePoint *list* a *database* table is beyond me – really, it must be driven by some weird marketing thing around SharePoint.  It is an absolute kluge.

This offline SharePoint list thing is for a few items and a few users max.  Anything beyond that and it will completely fall apart and be unmanageable.  Windows 95 briefcase replication had more engineering by far than this offline list abomination.

JET replication was engineered for database replication.   JET replication worked, it was programmable, manageable, robust, useful, had a graphical manager, worked with many topologies, did partials, had scheduling, had logging, worked over the Internet; in short it was engineered for real databases and real applications.

Now, since M$ is clearly putting Access out to pasture, they don’t care, M$ ripped JET replication out of Access07 because they don’t want to support it any more.  The writing is on the wall.

There in no future in Access.  VB/VBA is dead, dead, dead.  M$ is going to string Access along in maintenance mode only.  Ripping out things that are too complicated to support and playing with the rest.

M$ obviously is not advancing Access.  Access is fine for existing applications and will continue for a long time in this role.  But as a real development platform, it’s dead.  No new applications should be built with it.  Access 2007 makes this very clear.

A SharePoint “list”, or pseudo table has only a single non-controllable incrementing ID – usually not shown.  There are no other unique constraints.  It can not be called a database table.

“is this a serious effort or not?”  No, SharePoint offline lists are not a serious tool for real database applications or any serious application, for that matter.

Mike

# October 14, 2006 6:03 PM

MikeC# said:

Whoops, I ment to address that to David W. Fenton, sorry David.

# October 14, 2006 6:05 PM

StepUP said:

Well said Mike. I agree completely, but with much sadness.

My favorite devlopment tool, may you RIP.

# October 14, 2006 6:56 PM

MikeC# said:

StepUp,

I am very sad too.  It really really is a shame that M$ is not putting any real effort in advancing Access, THE single most successful development platform for creating database applications.

I am well experience in building ASP.net v1/2 database applications.  I know the limitations and clunkiness of ASP websites and the richness that is a Windows app. I know the effort it takes to build a VB6 and now a Winforms application.

Access trumps them with richness and simplicity of development, thus low cost.  But, I can not honestly recommend Access any more.

I have committed to C# and the VS changing menagerie, but Ruby on Rails is taking my attention, it is very cool.  Ruby on Rails is open source and therefore is not at the whim of the arrogant bobos at M$.

M$, please spin Access off to an independent company!  Let it live!

Mike

# October 14, 2006 8:05 PM

David W. Fenton said:

Is it not the case that Access 2007 will continue to support regular Jet in MDB files, thus enabling the continued use of traditional Jet replication?

In other words, if you open a Jet 4 MDB in A2K7, will you have the Replication item on the Tools menu (or whatever corresponds to it in the ribbon UI)?

# October 14, 2006 8:50 PM

MikeC# said:

David,

Yes, if you open an MDB, or create an 03 MDB file you will have replication in Access 2007.

But, for me at least, it is not usual to work with miss-matched versions of programs and data files unless I am migrating between versions, especially with customer’s production data.  It’s hard to know if MDB replication is supported in Access 2007 either.

M$ is not supporting replication in Access 2007 native data files (accdb).

JET Replication support ends:

Access 2003 1/09 (main stream), 1/14 (extended support)

Access 2000 1/04 (main stream), 7/09 (extended support)

Access 2003 has two good more years, then it is toast, as they say.

As a side note, it is interesting that M$ is tenderly stepping into longer file name extensions.  Why not just use Access2007db as the file extension?  “accdb” is still cryptic.  Jeez, virtually every other OS uses intelligent file names.  When are ancient DOS v1.0 drive letters going away?  Not in Vista...

Mike

# October 15, 2006 1:35 AM

MikeC# said:

I am concerned for the sanity of the people at M$!  I have been doing tests with SharePoint and Access 12…

I created a table called “Table1” with two columns: TestNumber(autonumber) and TestName(text).

I did the complete publish to SharePoint v2, including moving a copy of the Datebase1.accdb file to the SharePoint “Shared Documents” doc lib.  The “Moved to ShrePoint Site Issues” has some good news for me:

TestNumber(autonumber, PK) Field values will not be auto-generated; SharePoint only supports AutoNumber of their ID field.

TestNane(text with unique index) SharePoint does not support unique indexes on any column other than ID; Unique index will not be enforced.

Hmmm.  Yup, adding duplicates data to the SP list works; adding duplicates to the Access “table” works – never heard about Codd’s work at M$ I guess...

Ok, maybe someone somewhere will find a use for this.  Not me.

Ok, Ok, Ok, lets try creating another table “tblUser” with UserNumber(auotnumber, pk) , UserName(text, unique), UserType, UserCode, UserStatus, UserNotes.  And try the “Move to SharePoint” thing again.

Oh excellent, Access 2007 and SharePoint DUPLICATES my Table1 into Table1_1 and moves my tblUser to SharePoint.  And more of the same, Access07 throws ways the unique index, etc.

Hmmm.  SharePoint now has Table1, Table1_1 and tlbUser.

(By the way I am leaving out a fun thing that Access 2007 does to the now linked pseudo Access tables, it adds an _ID(float), Attachments(ntext), Modified(datetime), Created(datetime), [Created By](datetime) and [Modified By](datetime) and then creates a link to the SharePoint UserInfo table where ALL users of the SharePoint site are listed.)

Anyway, lets create another table, and try that Move to SharePoint.  Yup, now we have Table1, Table1_1, Table_2, tblUser, tblUser_1, and my new pseudo table tblTest.

Presumably there is no easy way for M$ to make this “moving” thing to work cleanly so, users will just need to delete a lot of SharePoint lists.

Oh, wasn’t that deleted list the one you used FrontPage (now called SP designer) to customize for a hour or so?  No problem, you will just need to make all of those XLT SPD customizations again!  And again!  And Again!

Ha ha ha, I hear screaming coming from the next office...

Mike

# October 15, 2006 1:42 AM

Zen said:

MikeC#:

M$, please spin Access off to an independent company!  Let it live!

Me:

Which is your Access "wish list"?

Bye

# October 15, 2006 5:59 AM

David W. Fenton said:

MikeC# wrote:

> Yes, if you open an MDB, or

> create an 03 MDB file you will

> have replication in Access

> 2007.

Hold on. In A2K2 and A2K3, your default MDB file format is A2K format. Is that going to change in A2K7?

Can A2K7 create a new MDB file? Can it create it in A2K format? Can it create it in A2K2 or A2K3 format?

> But, for me at least, it is not

> usual to work with

> miss-matched versions of

> programs and data files

> unless I am migrating

> between versions, especially

> with customer’s production

> data.  

Does that mean you only use A2K2 format in A2K2 and A2K3 format in A2K3? Me, well, I use A2K format in all of them, because the later versions add nothing at all that I need for my clients' apps, and so I get cross-version compatibility. I would expect A2K7's replication support to be similar -- if you create an MDB, it will allow replication, because MDB is a JET format and replication is a JET technology. If you use the new Access file format, you're no longer using pure Jet, so replication is not going to be offered.

I don't have a problem with that. Jet replication has never worked reliably for anything but pure Jet data in the first place (i.e., tables and queries; that is, no forms/reports/etc. should ever be replicated), so it's not going to be an issue to be limited to what only classic Jet can do, since that's all Jet replication ever offered in reality.

> It’s hard to know if MDB

> replication is supported in

> Access 2007 either.

Well, surely someone with the beta could test it and find out, no?

> M$ is not supporting

> replication in Access 2007

> native data files (accdb).

Yes, of course.

And I don't care, as long as replication in Jet MDBs is still supported.

# October 15, 2006 8:30 PM

Erik Rucker said:

As David notes, Jet replication continues to work for Access 2007 just as it always did in mdb's.  Further, 2007 reads / writes 2003 (actually 2000 - 2003) file format just fine without updating it.  So if you'd like to use replication, simply use a 2000-2003 mdb and you're cooking.  

# October 16, 2006 12:47 PM

MikeC# said:

David,

Access 2007 Beta2TR can create these files:

2000 MDB format

2002-2003 MDB format

2007 ACCDB format (default, but changeable)

Access Project ADP format (binary differences from Access 2003 ADP files...)

Other combinations work fine, but because of simple compatibly, functional and update reasons, for production use I recommend that:

Access 2000 MDB/E files work best with Access 2000.

Access 02-03 MDB/E files work best with Access 2003.

Access 2007 ACCDB/E files work only with Access 2007.

Access ADP/E files and SQL Server 2000 work best with Access 2003

Access ADP/E files and SQL Server 2005 work best with Access 2007

Note:

Access 2003 was the final version that Microsoft was committed to MDB files.

Access 2003 was the final version that Microsoft was committed to ADP files.

Because of the above, it is questionable in using Access 2007 with anything other than an ACCDB file format, final judgement pending...

I’ve been testing Access 2007 Beta2TR a few different ways.  On thing that is apparent is that Access 2007 is not working well with charts (I’m having hangs/crashes when this code is run).

Another is when a bullet proof Access 2003 24/7 production application ADP file is run under Access 2007 the top window title bar gets lost, and flickers in and out of existence when forms are opened (the whole screen jumps up and down with two status bars).  The application has one custom menu and one custom tool bar – something to with the hidden ribbon?  Access Projects (ADP) information is virtually non-existent in the help file.

Anyway, more on this testing later.  I get no response from M$ smiles, maybe I will just post the bug list here…  Makes me want to give up completely and say that Access 2007 is not even good for existing apps…

Zen, give me a little time, I will post a coherent wish list.

Mike

# October 16, 2006 4:53 PM

Tim said:

There in no future in Access.  Microsoft is going to string Access along in maintenance mode only.  Ripping out things that are too complicated to support and playing with the rest.

I am going to use FileMaker instead. SQL Express/VB.NET does not offer good alternative to my works.

Microsoft is too big and arrogant and thinks Access has no value.

# October 17, 2006 1:29 PM

Very disappointed said:

It's really sad, but I have to agree.  Many of the most important Access developer features are being subjected to a slow death.  Many of the features that really distinguished Access from its competiton are now deprecated.  A whole generation of apps that relied on those features (e.g. replication, security) will now have to be rewritten at great expense in some other tool.

The Access team in charge of developing the feature list for this new version should all be cited for gross incompetence.  I mean, who cares about Ribbons and SharePoint??? What kind of market research did they do?  Wasn't it obvious from all the public blog and list postings what features we needed???  Did ANYBODY ask for SharePoint??? Instead they give us a whole load of useless half-baked "features."  What an incredible waste of effort!!!  What an incredibly stupid decision!!!  These new useless additions are responsible for sucking up development of much more important features (e.g. security, replication, ADP enhancements, VB IDE improvements, .NET integration...)

Ribbons be gone.  SharePoint be gone.  

Give us a real development tool.

This is not a proud moment for the Access team.  Of all the Office apps, Access is the only one that is less useful in the new version.  If I were you guys, I would hold off on this version until you can get it right.  

# October 18, 2006 9:41 PM

David W. Fenton said:

MikeC# wrote:

> Access 2003 was the final

> version that Microsoft was

> committed to MDB files.

>

> Access 2003 was the final

> version that Microsoft was

> committed to ADP files.

>

> Because of the above, it is

> questionable in using Access

> 2007 with anything other

> than an ACCDB file format,

> final judgement pending...

After the ADO/DAO debacle, I'm skeptical of any such "final" versions of whatever new technology Microsoft is promoting for Access. I realized right away that ADO made no sense for my A2K apps, as I wasn't developing for anything but Jet back ends. And then classic ADO gets abandoned entirely a few years later.

If you need replication, then you will have to use an MDB in one of the earlier versions, as the new file format offers nothing approaching replication (Sharepoint is clearly not going to be able replace replication except for the most trivial data schemas).

I still do about half my development in A97, and none of my development in anything newer than A2K, because my clients have to support desktops with A2K, A2K2 and A2K3 installed. This works out really well for the clients as they no longer have to worry what post-A2K version of Access is installed, since all of them work with the A2K apps they have.

I just don't any pressure to move to the new data format because I really don't need any of the things it offers. It may be that, as with ADO, all the official documentation for a time will be written in terms of the the new database format, but, well, I got along with the ADO support files, so I can probably get along with documentation for the new database format.

# October 18, 2006 10:10 PM

Colt said:

Erik,

Some of the hard core developer folks are giving you quite a time on this blog. Just want you to know that there are some of us that really love what the team has done. The new report layout mode, attachments, filtering, SDI, and filtering are great features. I really love the look of Access applications. It is great to say good by to the dated 3-d look. Tranparent images are so cool!Your new templates are great starting points for some of the scenarios I was thinking about building a db for.

Have you considered building a inventory template? I'm just aobut to start a template to track lending laptops in our department. It would be great if you could provide a starting point.

I don't see how someone could think MS is killing the product after making such a huge investment. I do miss the security for Access databases but never considered using replication--what you have for SharePoint seems to fit my needs but I haven't played with it that much yet. I don't know anyone who uses replication...

Keep up the good work--some of us out here think this is a great release.

# October 21, 2006 1:10 AM

Erik Rucker said:

Colt, thanks for the good word!  Yes, we'll have templates for both inventory and "lending libraries".  As you might imagine, we're quite excited about this release for all the reasons you mention.  Change is hard, I guess.  Thanks again.

# October 23, 2006 1:23 PM

Chris B said:

Yes, there certainly are some nice features in the new version.  I personally would want to upgrade for the report designer improvements alone!  Designing reports was a real bottleneck in RAD process (despite still being faster than most other systems out there!).

It is, however, a mistake to marginalise the opinions of professional developers.  I contend it is actually the developers that drive the widespread use of MS Access on the desktop today.

I have been working with MS Access since v2 and as a contractor I have worked with many government and corporate organisations as well as SMEs, and microbusinesses.  I certainly have a pretty good idea of how the product is really being used out there in the real world.

While I have certainly seen (and had to reprogram) many Access apps that were written by non-professional developers, it is far more common these days to have the use of MS Access in the organisation driven by the developers in the first place.  

In other words, MS Access is on the desktop of most users *because* they need it to run the inhouse MS Access apps that have been developed by professionals (or by non-professional staff quite some time in the past).  It is much rarer these days to see new MS Access databases being cobbled together by non-professional staff.  Generally, MS Excel is used for this purpose nowadays (for better or for worse).  

In fact, many IT managers forbid development of MS Access apps by non-professional developers.  At the same time, a large portion of these are pragmatic enough to see that MS Access is a tremendously productive tool (in the hands of a professional) for developing many inhouse apps.  Even more so than .NET!

So, while there may indeed be many non-professional users of MS Access, the bulk of these really are simply users of the existing inhouse applications that have been written in MS Access.  They don't do any development in MS Access themselves and, in many cases, don't even know that Access is installed or what it is.  They think in terms of the inhouse application itself and not the product it was written in.

Even if you do make in easier for novices to use,  I think you will still have a battle convincing IT Managers to allow non-professional developers to create Access apps, because of past bad experiences with this.

Therefore I strongly believe the key to maintaining a strong MS Access presence on the desktop is by making it a strong development tool, not by watering it down!

Chris.

# October 25, 2006 12:28 AM

AL said:

^^^What he said^^^

And don't forget ADPs - the only dedicated SQL Server front-end tool on the market.  And remember, ODBC (as used in mdb or ACCDB) does not support application roles or Windows authentication - the MS-recommended methods of securing client apps.  You can only use app roles and WA with ADPs.  

So if you want an inherently insecure app, go ahead and use an mdb or accdb.  

As for all the other great features - I'll be very glad to use them, so long as they are supported in ADPs.  Otherwise, I 'll have to do without.

I'm still waiting for y'all to support secure app roles and W.A. over ODBC in accdb's.  

# October 26, 2006 12:05 AM

Joe Francis said:

Need to find out how we can use an MDE file that usually accesses an MDB database file; and convert the MDB file to a SQL MDF.

Do we have to use an Access ADP in order to do this?

Please can you offer some advice on how this can be done and how it can be done?

Please contact me at joe@kccsoft.com

Regards.

Joe Francis

# October 26, 2006 2:34 AM

Clint Covington said:

Chris,

Thanks for taking the time to share your opinion and you are absolutely correct. Developers are really important to Access and create many applications our end users love. I have been on many customer visits where a developer is instrumental in creating the app that drives Access deployment. I have also seen many customer visits where that developer wasn’t a professional developer but someone who was taking a class, reading a book, and studying the help file. Every single day new users start the long road of becoming developers. We want to make the process of learning how to use Access more natural and intuitive. One of the hard thing and exciting challenge about our job is balancing investments that span new developers to the most advanced hard core folks.

We also think templates are really, really important for end users. Last year there were over 2 million downloads of English templates. There is a great opportunity for us to provide more and better content that delights users and gets people using a database that is a good starting point. We have found end users are far more successful modifying (especially adding a field or two and creating reports) a well designed database than creating one from scratch. The team is finishing up work on a tool that will make it really easy for developers to create templates from their own databases. These templates can be deployed and show up in the getting started experience.

I agree with you that there are many simple databases that are kept in Excel that should be inside Access. We are trying to make it easier for those applications to be Access applications. We haven’t invested in this area for quite a while and some of the improvements we have made in this release will definitely help people ramp up on developing databases faster.

That said, I don’t think we have some great developer features– have you discovered control anchoring? I think this is one great developer feature that makes it much easier to build apps that take advantage of screen real estate. Here are a few of my other favorite developer features: PDF integration, native rich text, native date picker, alternate row color, better hyperlink support (display as hyperlink), improved image support (don’t bloat and transparency), images and text on buttons, etc. Fortunately, for my job stability there are still lots of things we want to do for developers in the next version.

Joe,

You have a couple choices to move mdb data to SQL Server. There is the upsizing wizard in the product today or the SSMA tools provided by SQL Server. You don’t have to create an ADP to have your app work with SQL Server. Access 2007 upsizing wizard moves the data and by default creates link tables to SQL Server. It does provide the option for an ADP but it isn’t the default anymore. I recommend you take a look at the help documentation on the upsizing wizard.

The SSMA tools have more knobs on the upsizing process. There is quite a bit of documentation about the SSMA tools and free downloads available: http://www.microsoft.com/sql/solutions/migration/access/default.mspx

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=d842f8b4-c914-4ac7-b2f3-d25fff4e24fb&displaylang=en

# October 26, 2006 4:23 AM

MikeC# said:

Clint,

I hope you are going to fix your Access07 pseudo “database” templates and abomination that you call “Move to SharePoint”.  You see, I went and looked at the very first template, called “Assets”.  

I suppose that unsuspecting users like Colt (above) might think that this template actually represents a real database, a database that might use Codd’s rules to some small degree to prevent all kinds of nasty anomalies.  It’s from M$ after all...

But, he would be wrong and in for a rude awaking as to how M$ is hocking this crap as an asset or inventory “database” application.  He would be very wrong in the case of “Move to SharePoint”.

If the template is used before it is moved to SharePoint, Colt MIGHT have a chance of keeping duplicate data from causing confusion and bad reports, but after it moves to SharePoint, all bets are off.  If he has users that actually use the SharePoint site and create entries, his Asset “database” will quickly turn into a pile of dung courtesy of the M$ Access team.

A future story...

Lets see, I put Clint’s name and Erik’s name in my new 300$+ Access 2007 Asset template “database” here, but somehow there are now two Clints and so I went and change the user ID for the second Clint, but now I found a problem with Sues laptop.   Some how it got inserted 5 times (she is always in a hurry and did not know to single click or to double click on the SharePoint “Save and Close” button after entering her data, so I found out she must have clicked it twice, then again and again twice before hurrying off).  But now, Erik did not know that there is a “next” button after 10 records on SharePoint, so Erik duplicated his assets and now Clint says his inventory is wrong, again, maybe its that darn in-your-face ID again...  Ok, now the reports are messed up again…

Man, I wish would never have bought this Access abomination from M$.  I thought M$ would know how to make a simple database with two tables work right!!  It seems they spent more on coffee, then on making Access work right...

A nightmare brought to you by the Access 2007 team.

# October 26, 2006 6:38 AM

StepUP said:

Well once again I feel compelled to make the comment that it seems the only time responses are made by the project team are when some positive feedback is given.

Here we see developer after developer registering complaints and questions and no response is given. My question is...What is the purpose of this blog if most posts are simply ignored?

Clint states that "Fortunately, for my job stability there are still lots of things we want to do for developers in the next version". How about doing the things that developers are asking for IN THIS VERSION?? Clint, most of the things that you point out as developer improvements (like PDF integration, date pickers, alternate row colors) I have been doing for years in Access with a little code and API programming. And your comment about "makes it much easier to build apps that take advantage of screen real estate" is interesting. Any gain is screen real estate is more than compensated for by the bloated space taken up by Ribbons. Templates? I would never consider using them since they do not fit the standards that I've developed for my apps over the years. Truly, the features for developers are trivial and in many cases NOT was asked for.

I'm not very familiar with Sharepoint but based on comments here, it appears to be quite the kludge. No referential integrity or unique indexes? Very limited capacity (like 10,000 records)? It boggles the mind.

I'm apologize for the negative tone. In some cases on this forum it has gotten TOO negative. But this comes from the very real frustration which seems to be shared amongst many developers who know the power and flexibility of Access, but are witnessing it become an ineffectual tool for that particular community. Maybe end users will be happy. Serious developers clearly are not.

# October 26, 2006 11:43 AM

Erik Rucker said:

Stepup, Mikec#, and others expressing frustration with Access 12, I understand that you are frustrated and I feel bad about that.  I've tried to address this frustration by explaining why we've built the product we've built, what our goals are, and why we're excited about the future of Access.  I've stated these things a few different times and in a few different ways and haven't made you feel any better.  So, rather than having both of us hurl the same messages back and forth, I stopped.  I care a lot about what you think, I understand your points, and I'm sorry that you're frustrated by the product.  My challenge is that I don't seem to be able to say anything that will ease your frustration.  If there's something I can explain, let me know either in the comments or in email.

   Thanks,

       Erik

# October 26, 2006 8:03 PM

Clint Covington said:

StepUp,

You asked about features this version. Access 2007 is pretty much done. We are in the final weeks of polishing this and now starting to think about vnext. It isn’t possible for us to add major archictectureal features this close to shipping. There are many, many customers very excited to start using Office and Access 2007.

About SharePoint--the data model is different than what you would expect from SQL Server. The reason data is stored in a sparse table is because it scales very well to scenarios where you have tens and hundreds of thousands of individual lists. We know from existing SharePoint deployment that users create many, many lists. We understand developers need more functionality in the platform layer (e.g. referential integrity, server validation rules, etc) to build more complicated applications and are looking into further improvements to the platform layers. I do believe that end users and developers want to build applications that have server and rich interfaces into the data. Most of the time when I talk with customers this issue comes up. SharePoint is definitely a big long term strategy bet for Office (one that is doing very well right now). Did you know SharePoint is the fastest growing server business in the history of MS? Also, OfficeLive is built on the SharePoint platform.

There are some great services the data model does provide. Every list is exposed as RSS feeds. Users can author lists without rights to create tables on the SQL Server. There is a permissions model for editing schema and data that is site specific. Many list types can be taken offline in Outlook. Users can get notifications when a list changes. We make heavy use of the GetListItemSinceToken API to only request changes from the server and synchronize offline changes. If you are running your app in Cache List Data mode you will notice far less server traffic.

WRT – templates… We don’t expect all developers adopt our user model for templates. That is why we built an extensible architecture and getting started experience so that you can create your own templates that model your user model and user experience requirements. There will me more information about how to generate templates posted later.

# October 27, 2006 12:41 AM

Stuart said:

Do Access 2007 works fine in Microsoft Terminal Services environment?

Bye

# October 28, 2006 5:52 AM

AL said:

There are a lot of us that would like to hear some official commitment re continued support or future plans for current technologies.  IOW, are the following technologies going to be  deprecated or unsupported or replaced in the next version (i.e after Access 2007):

ADPs - and keeping ADP features in sync with accdb

Security in mdb/accdb

.NET coding integration

DAP (publish to web) replacement strategy

Replication strategy

legacy CommandBar model

These are questions that our careers depend upon.  Please give us some straight and reliable answers - where are these technologies headed in the next 5 years?

Thanks...

# October 29, 2006 1:24 AM

StepUP said:

<<I've tried to address this frustration by explaining why we've built the product we've built, what our goals are, and why we're excited about the future of Access.  I've stated these things a few different times and in a few different ways and haven't made you feel any better.  So, rather than having both of us hurl the same messages back and forth, I stopped.>>

Erik - I was referring to QUESTIONS about A2007, not comments. There have been several questions that have gone completely unanswered. I asked about the restoration of the "auto repeat" function in the navigation control, the ability to display a form in classic Windows style and also about what changes/fixes were in the technical refresh. Others have asked questions on a variety of topics that I saw no response to.

Clint - Thanks for that info on Sharepoint, but I am wholly unconvinced. I can see where this is a handy feature for EXISTING Sharepoint customers, but for building a localized app the use of Sharepoint seems impractical, inefficient and far too costly.

Al - Perhaps you have not been following the points in this forum. Basically, in the versions of Access going forward:

-ADP's are dead.

-Security on the user/group level is dead.

-Replication is dead.

-Command bars and menus are dead.

# October 29, 2006 11:07 AM

AL said:

StepUp

You are not correct on several points.  I have reread this blog's posts many times, and there are many ambiguous psuedo-answers given to my questions, and to others' questions.

In several places, Clint/Eric have given lukewarm support to ADPs, ACCDB user security in a possible future version, legacy support for commandbars, and alternatives for replication in Ac2007.  I want to know the plans for these things beyond Ac 2007.  

Most of all, I need to know the real future for ADPs; I estimate the wrong decision on my part will cost me well over $250K in development costs.  I have high security needs, so accdb will never cut it, and I can't continue with ADPs if they won't be supported in the next version.  The best option for me is to continue with an improved version of ADP, rather than rewriting everything for accdb or .NET.  

# October 29, 2006 2:23 PM

MikeC# said:

Hi AL,

I have developed a few Access03 ADP applications (that are currently in 24/7 production environments).  These applications work excellently – just ask my customers.  I know all about using unbound forms, sprocs, security, etc. that make ADP apps work great.

I went an got the 07beta (+ TR) to see what Access07 will bring.  If you want to verify the following statements, go and load a copy yourself.

In Access07 there is NO information about the Access Project format in the help file.  The Access03 help file has a chapter, the Access07 help file has none.

My Access03 ADP applications do not work in Access07 as the window title bar disappears, the window jumps up and down when opening forms, two status bars appear,  the fat menu ribbon is obscene, etc.

Really, until I see the basic window jumping/title bar problem go away when creating ADPs in Access07, it is unusable.  And since M$ has basically cast this Access07 travesty in stone right now as Office07 is going to RTM, I will not be creating any more ADP applications in Access07.

The Accss07 ADP does work with SQL Server 05, but that is the only change to ADPs that I can see.

It’s possible I will use Access07 for a standalone frontend/backend MDB style app, but it’s unlikely given the attitude that M$ as shown to Access developers.  Basically the only thing developers wanted and got in Access07 was a working mouse wheel in the VB IDE.

People who think that transparent buttons are a significant advancement for Access07 must also think that Dubya was competent to be president of the US.

Really it’s not the fault of Eric or Clint as they are just cogs in a wheel, they have developed little to no independent thinking and thus just conform to the M$ strategists and memes floating about their offices.  The M$ strategists see non-dotnet VB as dead, the Access development platform as a toy (thus Codd’s rules are an afterthought), and Access is a “feature” or add-on to Office, something to promote SharePoint with.

AL, it is clear, M$ has killed Access Projects.  Access03 was the last version that Access Projects were really supported.

With M$s track record on Access, you would be a fool to take any comments by M$ people on what Access 13 might or might not support.

Mike

# October 29, 2006 3:52 PM

Stars & Stripes said:

I like how Access 2007 is coming along and by looking at comments such as the one posted by MikeC#, I can see that some people have not understood what  Access 2007 is about, or Microsoft or Dubya, so hands off all three of them!

# October 29, 2006 5:43 PM

Stuart said:

MikeC#

"AL, it is clear, M$ has killed Access Projects"

No Mike, it isn't clear.

You have some problems with Access 2007 ADP's, ok ... but Access 12 supports Access Data Projects.

Bye

# October 30, 2006 3:38 AM

MikeC# said:

Stuart,

1. M$ recommends AGAINST the use of Access Projects.

2. There is NO information about Access Project in Access 07.

3. Access03 projects are unusable with Access 07.

How much clearer does it need to be made?

Really, ADP as an application platform is dead.  M$ will hem and haw about how you can create an ADP to do a “little” app.  But even they will tell you that ADP is dead for any “significant” app.

M$ is not outright cutting ADP because it may seem rude to them to completely pull the plug (after they created ADPs, recommended them, etc), but ironically, stringing you along is even ruder.  You REALLY need to define what you mean by “support”.

By “support” you mean that you can create an ADP file with Access07?  Yes, Access07 does that.

By “support” you mean that you can create a production ADP application with Access07?  No, Access07 does not do that.  Access07 does not even work with existing ADP applications.

Google the word “failure” and you will find an inept puppet at the top of the list. – just like Access07 is.

# October 30, 2006 10:30 PM

Stars & Stripes said:

When people run out of ideas to support their beliefs, they resort to pranks.

# October 31, 2006 5:41 PM

Dale Thompson said:

To the Access Team

It looks like you guys have been doing a lot of good work and for that I applaud you.

But

I've been developing with ADP since Access 2000 and have much time and money invested in these projects.  

I need to be able to easily modify my Command Bars with GUI tools not VBA code in Access 2007.

And please don't abandon your support for ADPs.

Thanks

# October 31, 2006 5:54 PM

MikeC# said:

Dale,

I know that you did not address me, but I can answer since I too have used the simple GUI setup of MenuBars and ToolBars for years.  I also use VB code with these "Classic" MenuBars/ToolBars and I have used VB code to manipulate the hideously fat menu bar ribbon ad thingy and big office file button in Access07.

"I need to be able to easily modify my Command Bars with GUI tools not VBA code in Access 2007."

The facts are: There are NO tool bar GUI tools in Access07, period.  And using an Access03 MenuBar/ToolBar in Access07 is unworkable as they are relegated to an "Addins" tab.

RUNNING an Access03 file under Access07 will bring them back and remove the fat menu thingy - but you MUST use Access03 to develop them in so there is no point to using Access07 if you want/need a simple MenuBar or ToolBar.

“And please don't abandon your support for ADPs” – sadly, they have.  But things change, ADP development was bound to end at some point since M$ will only support mind share products.  Like people with the blind faith meme burned into their mind: the way is the way; it is what it is, etc – they don’t have the capacity to think outside the rut in their collective mind.

By the way, this blog is going way.  As soon as Office 07 goes RTM, poof.  The marketing and the buying by the gullible masses will continue unabated whether or not Access07 can actually do something efficiently or not.

# October 31, 2006 8:28 PM

Nigel Scott said:

After reading all the above comments I can say this is certainly a lively blog. Clearly the Microsoft staff and the professional developers care deeply about the product.

I am really pleased Microsoft are pouring so many resources into Access 2007. This proves Microsoft do see a future in Access.

I look forward to using the new version to some extent. I think Clint's list of improvements is impressive.

However, I do wish some of the fundamental developer features of Access (custom menubars, user-level security, replication) were in the new accdb format. Since they are not we will either roll-out new applications using XP runtime or see how well our frontends convert to A2007 mdb - - hoping that Microsoft decide to reintroduce these in Access vNext.

Nigel

# November 1, 2006 7:37 AM

MichaelS said:

There is a good deal of steam expressed in some of these posts. I think that's hard on the Microsoft team who are in a complex position to say the least. But the reason for the heat is pretty clear. A long time ago Microsoft built an incredibly useful software development tool, Access. Developers lept on it and pushed it to the max for over a decade. For it's part, for all of the time that it's been a booming success, Microsoft hardly lifited a finger to further the Access platform. When it came out that Access 12 was finally going to get some serious attention and funding, the Access devs as a group went "Whoopee! About time!"; there were expectations. But, basically not only have few of our needs and wants been addressed, there are some significant reductions in fuctionality with Access 12. Overall it seems to be becoming less of a dev tool than it was before. So, most Access devs are either pissed or in a state of shock. This isn't what we expected, at all.

I've not posted on this blog for a while because I've started to realize that Microsoft is going to blow it with my massively productive programing environment. I'm looking, and finding, elsewhere. I'm not very enticed alternate Microsoft offerings partially because as a result of this (and other stuff) I don't have a lot of confidence that Microsoft is really set up to help small shops like mine. Too massive, too many agendas.

Yes, it's too bad. Eric said "Change is hard" re all the beefing here, but it's not that devs here are resistant to "change". Not at all. Many of us just don't have to like the direction that the product is being taken. If it does not suit our needs any more, that's not resistance to change, that's resistance to losing capabilities! We were looking for a shift in the opposite direction from what we're getting (an over-simplification to be sure).

# November 1, 2006 7:36 PM

zen said:

MichaelS:

"But, basically not only have few of our needs and wants been addressed, there are some significant reductions in fuctionality with Access 12. Overall it seems to be becoming less of a dev tool than it was before. So, most Access devs are either pissed or in a state of shock. This isn't what we expected, at all"

Me:

I'm in a state of shock  ;-)

In my opinion, without custom MenuBars it's impossible to make an Access Application...

Ribbons (that aren't simply customizable) can't replace a classic MenuBar.

I think Access program managers don't know Access by developers point of view.

Bye

# November 2, 2006 8:41 AM

ChrisB said:

Hi Clint,

Thanks for your reply earlier.  I can certainly understand why you wish to make the experience for new users a lot better and I salute your efforts in that regard.  I think the template makeover is a very good thing as, curiously, the only template use I have actually seen in the wild has been by professional developers and not by new users!

While it is important for new developers to come on board, I still urge you, however, not to underestimate the role of existing developers in the ongoing success of MS Access.  If new developers start seeing more and more disatisfaction and resentment from the experienced crowd, they may question whether it is worth them continuing with it.  Theres no point getting new people on board if you keep losing the old ones!

I am trying to keep an open mind about Sharepoint.  While the lack of unique ids, referential integrity, etc is unfortunate, I guess it probably isn't as bad as some of the abominations I have seen created in Excel!  I do see the need for simple shared lists and I imagine that this has quite some appeal to both users and IT managers.  It will be interesting to see whether they will end up using MS Access for this or just rely on the existing web interface.  

In either case, I believe that the management of lists will be crucial so that the number of unused or duplicate lists that accumulate over time doesn't obscure the useful ones.  What may seem like a great idea early on may become like a curse down the track unless out-of-date lists are routinely culled!

Anyway, we must be about due for another post?  I look forward to it.

-Chris.

# November 2, 2006 10:51 PM

Ken said:

zen wrote:

"In my opinion, without custom MenuBars it's impossible to make an Access Application..."

"I think Access program managers don't know Access by developers point of view"

Probably they are too young and they haven't never developed DB applications larger then Northwind   ;-)

Bye

# November 3, 2006 2:48 AM

AL said:

Ken is right on target.  

I highly doubt there is even one person on the Access team who actually spent 1+ years developing a single complex mission-critical, enterprise-level Access application.  They seem to view the Access world as a long series of disposable quick and dirty projects.  My Access projects are developed and refined over several years, and are designed to be secure and bullet proof, while being used by many simultaneous users, and handling many gigs of data.

What we have here is the dumbing-down of Access for the sake of non-programmers.  But it won't matter, non-programmers still won't be able to make it work, and developers will lose some of the best features of their favorite tool.  Everybody loses.  Just great.

Don't get me wrong, many of the new features are great.  And I would be very happy if the new features were an addition to the current feature set.  Unfortunately, they are more of a replacement than an addition.  In the end, this means that Access is no longer suitable for many secure, enterprise-level, mission-critical applications.

# November 3, 2006 4:50 PM

StepUP said:

Well apparently none of my questions are going to get answered.

Interesting though, I went back and read some of the posts from over a year ago, and even way back then many of the developers were unhappy with how the product was shaping up, and most of those folks are not longer participating on the blog. I guess they gave up when it was clear that nothing was going to significantly change.

Here is what Microsoft states in the Office Online web page:

"In previous releases of Microsoft Office applications, people used a system of menus, toolbars, task panes, and dialog boxes to get their work done. This system worked well when the applications had a limited number of commands. Now that the programs do so much more, the menus and toolbars system does not work as well. Too many program features are too hard for many users to find. For this reason, the overriding design goal for the new user interface is to make it easier for people to find and use the full range of features these applications provide. In addition, we wanted to preserve an uncluttered workspace that reduces distraction for users so they can spend more time and energy focused on their work. With these goals in mind, we developed a results-oriented approach that makes it much easier to produce great results using the 2007 Microsoft Office applications."

What really cracks me up in that statement is the "uncluttered workspace that reduces distraction" line. I've always felt that the CUSTOMIZABLE toolbars were one of the greatest features in Office and was often baffled when other major applications did not include this kind of capability. As far as I'm concerned, that gets thrown out the "Window", so to speak, with the Ribbon interface. I have grown to really dislike it in ALL of the office apps (I just uninstalled the 2007 beta because all office apps were defaulting to the 2007 version and I could not change it by opting for "always use this program to open this type of file").

Surely some, maybe most, people will like the new interface. That remains to be seen. But to take a wonderful developer tool and just cripple it by not even having options to go with one interface style or another, and remove functionality that people have used effectively for years, is truly a demonstration of total lack of regard for the Access developer community.

# November 5, 2006 2:53 PM

KiwiBruce said:

Well I have to add my complete disappointment in what is happening to Access  2007

I too am a professional Access developer and now I feel I need to start re-training as the future of Access bleak for Developers.

All these comments above a t right on target!   I would like to hear a response from Clint and Eric and not just a dodge answer. I fully agree with AL some of the new features are awesome and I was really pumped and looking forward to A 2007, but now I see what is now going to be missing  and how bad Share Point is a data repository... Well I am now deflated beyond belief.  Come on Access t Team, please support  your developer community. I really really do not think you appreciate how big and important this community is and how you are basically leaving us high and dry.

# November 5, 2006 3:18 PM

Sascha said:

I share most of the opinions stated above. I've been frustrated by the limitations and the wrong direction Access goes from the very first moment on. I could not understand why all the suggestions from developers that can be found on thousends of websites, blogs, forums where not regarded after 4 years of development. Instead there were added many new features that don't make life easier (ribbon) or are completely worthless (sharepoint).  (Astonishing rarely expressed here: For me the greatest disapointment is the unchanged VBA environment - 10 years old and a joke compared to other systems like eclipse. Even the too small sized references dialog remains in old state - the VBA 6.5 team just would have to change the dialog resource in vbe6intl.dll - a job of 10 minutes ...)

But let's look at the other side:

Access 2007 will

- bring new users to Access. Excel maniacs will try starting by using templates. They will give up when things will become complicated. It will be developers like us to then make the best of these so called databases. Some jobs plus?!

- bring millions of new users to public newsgroups and forums. What a success!

- give authors the opportunity to write more books than ever about Access2007!

- bring training companies many new customers trying to understand what a database is.

- give add-in developers possibilities for a wide range of functionality to fill the gaps that MS left. Be excited to choose amongst hundreds of graphical ribbon editors we will surely see...

All this will spread the market, create new jobs and ensure that Access will be well alive.

# November 5, 2006 8:58 PM

AL said:

If you look over blogs for other Office products, you never see this level of negative comments about the new version.  Only with Access.  The comments from hard-core Access developers are almost universally negative.  Most of the positive developer comments are from the few mercenaries who write for Access journals and newsletters (i.e. for money or fame), or from those who never use SQL Server.  Gee, I wonder why that might be????

Let's not forget about the fantastic improvements to conditional formatting that are appearing in Excel, but were not deemed important enough for Access!  For years, we have complained about conditional formatting, so the Access  team gives us Sharepoint, as a reward for our loyalty.  

Yes I am happy about the new features.  Unfortunately, many of them do not make it into ADPs.  I am grateful for the  continued support of ADPs, but I expected to see much more.  In particular, I expected the Access team to follow Microsoft's own published best practices, and promote integrated security with application roles.  Thus, at present we have no built-in security model other than "role your own."

I understand that they felt compelled to include ribbons for Office consistency, but honestly, if they had dropped the Sharepoint juggernaut (aka replication for idiots), they probably would have had enough time and resources to address almost all of our concerns.

I've been around for VB 1.0 and Access 1.0 - This is just as bad as the Access 95 fiasco, where they first broke everything before fixing it over the next 2 releases.

They really need to delay this release until they get it right.

# November 5, 2006 11:01 PM

StepUP said:

There is no chance of delaying the release. Basically what you see in the Beta 2 technical refresh is what you are going to get. As Clint mentioned earlier, "Access 2007 is pretty much done".

I just wonder if any of this feedback is getting back anyone other than Clint and Erik. Does anyone else at the mighty Microsoft care?

Apparently not....

# November 6, 2006 12:11 PM

Benka said:

I won't give up Access as a great development tool because of the reasons that is posted from disappointed developers in this blog. I have been working with Access since 1994, mostly with ADP's the last years, and it's a really nice combination of RAD and a stable data´base environment.

I don't understand all of the barking and jelling of what is missing in the new version, maybe it's not so much improvements for developers but I really looking forward to get a modernized look to my apps that were created for 5 to 15 years ago. And an enhanced reporting tool is also welcome, that too will bring more value out of my customers running applications.

I like Access and I'm looking forward to start learning about new features in Access 2007.

Benka    

# November 7, 2006 6:49 PM

mark said:

Has anyone taken a look at Microsoft OFFICE Accouting 2007 at www.OAisbetter.com?  

This is not Microsoft Money, not Microsoft Great Plains, not Microsoft Navision.  This is a product branded as Microsoft Office complete with the familiar muti-color frame logo.

Microsoft has spared this spanking new application from the "ribbon/no menus for you" design foisted upon Access 2007 developers.

How can they justify this inconsistency?

How can they proclaim that users will find the ribbon experience superior to conventional menu structures and then not implement the ribbon in this NEW application, written to complete against Quickbooks and Peachtree?

If their own developers reject the ribbon nonsense for application development under the "Office" moniker, why do they insist on sticking it to Access 2007?

# November 16, 2006 8:03 AM

mark said:

Has anyone taken a look at Microsoft OFFICE Accouting 2007 at www.OAisbetter.com?  

This is not Microsoft Money, not Microsoft Great Plains, not Microsoft Navision.  This is a product branded as Microsoft Office complete with the familiar muti-color frame logo.

Microsoft has spared this spanking new application from the "ribbon/no menus for you" design foisted upon Access 2007 developers.

How can they justify this inconsistency?

How can they proclaim that users will find the ribbon experience superior to conventional menu structures and then not implement the ribbon in this NEW application, written to complete against Quickbooks and Peachtree?

If their own developers reject the ribbon nonsense for application development under the "Office" moniker, why do they insist on sticking it to Access 2007?

# November 16, 2006 8:21 AM

ItsMe said:

But the website says it (OA2007) has:

"a familiar and consistent user interface that works with and looks like other Microsoft Office programs."

Hmmm....

# November 16, 2006 10:17 PM

yeah said:

...and

Infopath 2007 does not have the Ribbon

Visio 2007 does not have the Ribbon

Outlook 2007 kinda has the Ribbon

but, to be honest, I kinda like the ribbon...well just a little.  It really irritates me that they did not bother to include it with Infopath or Visio.  To me that says "RUSH JOB".

# November 17, 2006 1:26 AM

StepUP said:

And besides Infopath, Visio and Outlook, also mysteriously lacking the Ribbon:

OneNote

Project

Publisher

Sharepoint Designer

So the wonderful Ribbon is somehow not included in all of these apps (7 out of 11 Office 2007) , but is forced upon us in Access. Unbelievable!

# November 18, 2006 12:09 PM

AL said:

Geez, if they left the ribbon out of Access 2007, you would complain about that too.  All we really want is to keep the old stuff available, as a developer choice, and to preserve our investment in "legacy" (i.e. this year's) code.  Running at 1280 x 1024, the ribbon looks just fine :-)

# November 19, 2006 10:54 PM

HelpPlease said:

I have an appplication that reads information from Access Database, it uses ADO (msado15.dll) to open a database using Connection15::Open( ).  I am unable to open Access 2007 database using this method.  I get the following error: "Microsoft JET Database Engine, Unrecognized database format".  Is there something I am doing wrong or I should be aware of?  Does msado15.dll support Access 2007 databases?  Thank you in advance.

# December 1, 2006 10:38 AM

John Harris said:

Erik / Clint

Is this blog still active?  I was hoping for some more posts from you guys...

# December 3, 2006 11:01 PM

Alan Cossey said:

This is a former cynic here. When I first saw what was going on with Access 2007, I was not particularly impressed. However, the more I look at it and see things like much better security (even if you have to jump through hoops to use it effectively) and Sharepoint integration, the more I am impressed. I have just started playing with Office Live and am mega impressed with how it works with Access and Outlook (haven't tried it with Excel yet). I was in no hurry to get involved with Sharepoint, but it has loads to offer.

# December 22, 2006 5:15 AM

Ric said:

Depressing reading for anyone with real users, relational data and an interest in moving towards browser/web deployment without the hassle of deploying or hosting SQL server.  Plugging these apps into SharePoint would be wonderful if it was going to work

If you have a relational database structure and want to share it, with synchonisation/replication, and web access, and use Access as a development tool, what are MS suggesting as the approach?

It would be great if you could deploy an Access relational database structure to Sharepoint with confidence, build Sharepoint forms for simple tasks, and have reliable replication back to the core app sitting in say a small office.

Similarly, th eother apps liek Groove look interesting but don't seem likely to help database developers.

No-one has talked of Access 2007 front ending SQLExpress - is it a viable option?

Where is the MS road map for the next few years?  How do Jet, Access, the MSSQL variants and Sharepoint fit together?

# January 31, 2007 8:34 PM

ric said:

I see in your strategy document you say The primary application programming interface (API) for working with the Microsoft Jet database engine from code is Data Access Object (DAO). In Office Access 2007, new objects, properties, and methods will be added to DAO to support the new features in the Access database engine. For example, multi-valued fields created using the new Lookup Wizard will be accessible from code as DAO recordsets.

I thought DAO was deprecated and ADO was the preferred technology to use.

Please explain when you are saying each should be used.

Thanks

# January 31, 2007 9:25 PM
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