Solving Tag-Hell

re: Solving Tag-Hell

alexbarn — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:28:27 GMT

Manual trackback:

'Social Tagging' - Technicalities blog, Paul Dundon: http://paulstechnicalities.blogspot.com/2006/02/social-tagging.html

Tagging ??????????????? @ ?????????????????????

Tagging ??????????????? @ ????????????????????? — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:42:03 GMT

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re: Solving Tag-Hell

Anne Zelenka — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:59:43 GMT

Alex, have you seen Clay Shirky's article "Ontology is Overrated"? It's here:

http://www.shirky.com/writings/ontology_overrated.html

In it, he discusses using URLs to merge categories rather than trying to merge categories directly:

"You don't merge tagging schemes at the category level and then see what the contents are. As with the 'merging ISBNs' idea, you merge individual contents, because we now have URLs as unique handles. You merge from the URLs, and then try and derive something about the categorization from there. This allows for partial, incomplete, or probabilistic merges that are better fits to uncertain environments -- such as the real world -- than rigid classification schemes."

I don't think what we should be aiming for is a Yahoo-style ontology, which is what I initially thought tagging was about and what Dori seems to want.

re: Solving Tag-Hell

alexbarn — Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:44:05 GMT

thanks for the pointer Anne, yes I saw (and heard) Shirky's essay a while ago. It realy shaped a lot of my thinking on this.

Agreed that the best way is probably the bottom-up approach...

re: Solving Tag-Hell

Scott — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 03:14:57 GMT

"Let's take it further - could we use the tags used by your reading list / OPML cloud to help decide which tags to use when tagging or searching content. "

See, I'm thinking along another line. What if when you tag something, all of it's other tags are mapped to your tag. Either automagically or manually by the user? Specifcally, if you tag something that a person known to you had tagged with a different tag. The new tag is mapped to your tag. So any search you initiate which includes your tag, now also includes the tag of the known person.

So if I tag a post of Dori's with "AppleOSX" but she's tagged it with "OSX", my tag search will look at not only my personal tags during my next search for "AppleOSX", but also at least glance around at other tags, like "OSX", associated with the original post that are related by that content and present any content associated with them to me. Maybe a section titled, "You haven't tagged these, but they share a tag with something you have tagged." Some sort of Baysean inference based on the content along with a neural net or some kind of simulated annealing or another monte carlo type routine could limit the sheer volume and hopefully hit the target more than miss.

The problem is it kind of requires people using tags with a laser-like precision. Otherwise after a time, a tag search ends up returning what looks like a Google/MSN/Yahoo search. So I'd suggest only extended the "Friend of a Tag" motif to people in my trust-zone. Friends/family/co-workers/people I know not to be stupid or indiscriminate taggers. What do you think?

re: Solving Tag-Hell

Russell Limprecht — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 05:45:40 GMT

My pet peeve is that some sites space separate tags, and others use the comma. Argh.

Rohit Aggarwal » Blog Archive » Repost: Solving Tag-Hell

Rohit Aggarwal » Blog Archive » Repost: Solving Tag-Hell — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 07:14:47 GMT

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re: Solving Tag-Hell

Jack Vinson — Sat, 04 Feb 2006 09:45:39 GMT

David Weinberger said it well in his Release 1.0 piece last year on tagging. (paraphrase) It doesn't matter that you can't find every last item related to your topic. There are too many already. What matters is that you can find _something_ and that you can also use knowledge about who is doing teh tagging to inform you as to the quality of the underlying link.

re: Solving Tag-Hell

Frank Smadja — Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:28:52 GMT

Hi Alex -

Great discussion. I have read this and your other post on tag relationship.s I believe that the right approach is based on the following 2 points:

1- let the "advanced user" define tag relationships
2- Use clustering and other statistical based techniques to infer tag relationships for the searcher and the less advanced tagger.

This the approach we are working on at RawSugar. Also I have written a short paper with 2 other (external) researchers on tag clustering and I'd be happy to send it to you if you're interested. You can email me at myfirstname@mycompanyname.com -

Thanks for the great discussion.

Frank

本周阅读(tag: web2.0)

Keven — Sun, 05 Feb 2006 16:37:07 GMT

春节期间游历网站所阅读的有关Web2.0（包括图书馆2.0）的东西，略加点评。

New Media Crossroads » Blog Archive » Tag Hell

New Media Crossroads » Blog Archive » Tag Hell — Sun, 05 Feb 2006 21:46:04 GMT

PingBack from http://www.pollackmediagroup.net/wordpress/?p=25

re: Solving Tag-Hell

David Weinberg — Mon, 06 Feb 2006 16:43:19 GMT

Interesting thread Alex … I’ll stay tuned.

Looks like the tag paradigm is set to remain in a state of flux for some time yet. I guess this is a healthy reflection of the high levels of innovative activity in that space.

DumbFind’s new tag based search engine launched last week is a case in point. Steering clear of the old fashioned keyword-only search models, Dumbfind’s wears its tag oriented search paradigm on its sleeve (www.dumbfind.com).

It helps that is one of the few search engines to maintain its own search index, making DumbFind independent of the major players. That independence will become increasingly important as other players like Google cave in under pressure from China, for example, and start the regrettable pracice of customizing their content to suit the censorship whims of local politics.

Let the tagging debate continue!

re: Solving Tag-Hell

Don Demsak — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 03:34:31 GMT

Alex, you must have missed my post "Random Acts of Senseless Tagging" http://donxml.com/allthingstechie/archive/2005/11/14/2272.aspx

The Publishing Industry already has an XML based language that will handle expressing tags and tag hierarchies called Controlled Vocabs: http://www.prismstandard.org/specifications/1.2/modularized/PRISM_controlled_vocabulary_namespace_12.pdf

The problem is that their is no Web Service API (currently) around this spec, which what I am working on.

Microsoft sites like The Working Network, http://theworkingnetwork.com/blogs/blog/Default.aspx and CodeZone would be perfect uses of a technology like this.

re: Solving Tag-Hell

dumbfounder — Tue, 07 Feb 2006 23:11:55 GMT

Dumbfind is definitely tackling this problem. We have built what we call a "relationship index" that shows the connections between all tags in the system. When you search for keywords in combination with a tag on Dumbfind, we produce results for the keywords, and then actually compute the similarity between each of the tags assigned to the results and the tag you search for. It is much more than a simple term expansion, and much different that a traditional inverted index.

Help with Tag Hell

Alex Barnett blog — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:45:30 GMT

James Corbett suggests Raw Sugar may help out with the Tag Hell I described a little while ago:

"Raw...

http://eirepreneur.blogs.com/eirepreneur/2006/03/raw_sugar_trump.html

TrackBack — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:46:08 GMT

Raw Sugar is an advanced Social Bookmarking system that John Tropea has been recommending for ages now...

http://eirepreneur.blogs.com/eirepreneur/2006/03/raw_sugar_trump.html

http://blog.tinyau.net/archives/2006/02/04/current-problem-of-tagging/

TrackBack — Wed, 15 Mar 2006 09:48:27 GMT

剛剛看過 Alex Barnett blog 內的一篇文章 Solving Tag-Hell，文中提出一個很多人都會遇到的一個有關 tagging 的問題，就是該使用那一個 tag 才好，相同的題材，每個人都會有自己愛用的 tag。

http://blog.tinyau.net/archives/2006/02/04/current-problem-of-tagging/

OPML-Powered TibsBits » Blog Archive » Tags

OPML-Powered TibsBits » Blog Archive » Tags — Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:24:17 GMT

PingBack from http://www.tibsbits.com/wp/?p=190

Corpus and the Anatomy of Words, Tags and Clusters.

Alex Barnett blog — Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:37:21 GMT

(Warning, this is a highly unstructured, a random-thoughts-externalized-type-post)
First a quick definition:...

Tech philosophy, an occasional weblog by Waseem Sadiq » Blog Archive » How Macaw does social tagging

Thu, 18 May 2006 23:05:23 GMT

PingBack from http://waseem.sadiq.nl/blog/2006/05/18/how-macaw-does-social-tagging/

Welke tag is de juiste? · BlueAce

Welke tag is de juiste? · BlueAce — Fri, 28 Jul 2006 23:41:14 GMT

PingBack from http://www.blueace.nl/2006/02/welke-tag-is-de-juiste/

Tag, Tags, Tagging, Categorization, Classification and Laziness

Alex Barnett blog — Tue, 15 Aug 2006 06:31:04 GMT

Clearly a classic post on the topic of tagging, but I've not seen it before: A cognitive analysis of...

hochan.NET : ?????? ??????: 2006.03.15

hochan.NET : ?????? ??????: 2006.03.15 — Sat, 28 Apr 2007 15:04:11 GMT

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Alex Barnett's blog : Solving Tag-Hell

Weddings — Fri, 06 Jun 2008 11:51:22 GMT

Backup Brain recently highlighted one of the problems with the tagosphere - the 'which tag do I use' problem. I say 'one' of the problems, because there are at least three tagospheric problems that are creating a Tag-Hell: 1. When in content tagging mod

Alex Barnett s blog Solving Tag Hell | Insomnia Cure

Alex Barnett s blog Solving Tag Hell | Insomnia Cure — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:03:39 GMT

PingBack from http://insomniacuresite.info/story.php?id=6759

Alex Barnett s blog Solving Tag Hell | bird baths

Alex Barnett s blog Solving Tag Hell | bird baths — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:42:14 GMT

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