Welcome to MSDN Blogs Sign in | Join | Help

Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

The VS debugger since 7.0 has put most debugger windows on the Debug menu, under the Windows sub-menu. I say 'most' because the Output window lives on the View menu, under Other Windows sub-menu.

Where do you expect debugger windows to be on the menu? (Ignore Output for now, we intend to fix that one independent of this). Your choices are:

  1. Where they have been since 7.0 (ie under Debug/Windows)
  2. Where every other window is (ie under View/Debugger Windows)?

We can't agree, so need the communities feedback.

Published Thursday, June 17, 2004 1:46 PM by andypennell

Comment Notification

If you would like to receive an email when updates are made to this post, please register here

Subscribe to this post's comments using RSS

Comments

Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:20 PM by Marty Garins

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

My vote would be for option number 2 - Where every other window is.

Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:22 PM by Scott Wisneiwski

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

My vote is for View->Debugger Windows
That way all views are in one place.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:24 PM by Woody Pewitt

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

This is one of my pet peeves this sould be and should have always have been View/Debugger Windows. Please put it where it belongs!
Thursday, June 17, 2004 5:36 PM by Nonnenberg's Notes

# The Debugger Toolwindows

Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:41 PM by Bjoern Graf

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Yes, View->Debugger Windows is the place these have to be. Even thought I used to open these windws more than once I always look in View for them first :)
Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:47 PM by Stefano Demiliani

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View-->Debugger ... I think it's more clear and natural.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:54 PM by Mark Allan

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View -> Debugger Windows would seem more consistent.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:55 PM by AndrewSeven

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

How about both?
Thursday, June 17, 2004 2:58 PM by Andy Pennell

# Cannot do Both

The Powers That Be won't let us put the menus in both locations. We thought that was the ideal solution.

Please keep the votes coming.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:01 PM by B.Y.

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Drop this feature, real programmers use debug.com to debug.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:26 PM by Scott Galloway

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View->Debugger
Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:37 PM by MartinJ

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I gotta vote for option 2. It seems more natural to find all the little tool windows in one menu.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:56 PM by Ken Cox [MVP - ASP.NET]

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

To me, Task List, Immediate, Command Window, Output and BreakPoint all belong together. Anyway, my choice is:

View -> Debugger Windows

But don't people realize that they can move these around to suit themselves using Tools > Customize?
Thursday, June 17, 2004 3:57 PM by Joe

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Not the question you asked, but here's a wish for Visual Studio which seems to me to be related.

I often have a solution which contains a server and a client app (usually using remoting). When I want to debug the client app, I want to run the server app (without debugging) then run the client app in the debugger (or vice versa to debug the server app). The only way I've found to do this today is to:
- Set the Startup project to the server app
- From the Debug menu choose "Start without debugging"
- Set the Startup project to the client app
- From the Debug menu choose "Start without debugging" (or use Debug from the context menu in solution explorer).

What I'd like to see is an option "Start without debugging" in the context menu for all projects in a solution. So I could do the following:
- Right click the Server project in Solution explorer and select "Startup without debugging"
- Right click the Client project in Solution explorer and select "Debug".

Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:09 PM by Geoff Appleby

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Definately option two. The debug menu should be for debug specific tasks, and only that.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:18 PM by Scott Nonnenberg

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Joe: You can have multiple startup projects (set this in Solution Properties). That would probably solve your problem.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 4:21 PM by Steve Perry

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View->Debugger
Thursday, June 17, 2004 7:48 PM by Alexander

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View -> Debugger Windows and right click menu during run-time
Thursday, June 17, 2004 8:18 PM by Jeff

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I don't care, as long as they are all in one place.
Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:41 PM by Uwe

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Put them somewhere NOW and ship two weeks earlier would be my choice :-)
Friday, June 18, 2004 1:06 AM by Code/Tea/Etc...

# Andy Pennell and Scott Nonnenberg are looking for your opinion...

Thursday, June 17, 2004 10:41 PM by Andrei

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I tend to agree with the second choice ! If it's something that you can view, sounds logical to look for it in the "View" menu :)
Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:19 PM by Jim Griesmer

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

If the debug windows were duplicated, one submenu under Views->Debug and one under Debug->Windows, would you be confused?

The "Powers That Be" claim this is the reason for no duplication.

Friday, June 18, 2004 2:20 AM by JimGries's WebLog

# Debugger windows, under what menu item should they live?

Thursday, June 17, 2004 11:33 PM by Ilya Ryzhenkov

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I don't care, I use keyboard shortcuts. Please, don't change default shortcuts a lot...
Friday, June 18, 2004 1:07 AM by Jason Ronald

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Option #2 seems to make the most sense.
Friday, June 18, 2004 1:09 AM by Pattern Guru

# Debugging Window Menu Items

It would not be confusing to have some windows in two places. The current situation is (where the heck was that specific window again...?). Please put all windows in the same place, in the right place. So great question. I think I would prefer to have all windows in one place, so that would be option 2.
Friday, June 18, 2004 2:41 AM by Panos Theofanopoulos

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View/Debugger menu is my choice.

I have two wishes also for VS

1) Lock (Toolbars, docked Windows)
2) Property named "Default NameSpace" in Project's Folders that if its specified overrides the Project's "Default NameSpace"
Friday, June 18, 2004 2:46 AM by Wayne Taylor

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I think the it should be number 2....

:-)
Friday, June 18, 2004 4:29 AM by Woo Seok Seo

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Number 2..
Friday, June 18, 2004 6:34 AM by Dmitriy Zaslavskiy

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

#2
Friday, June 18, 2004 7:33 AM by AndrewSeven

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

The PTB are confused.
The View menu is a general menu, if people have a hard time finding the menu item to view somthing, then it should be added to this menu.

All groups of windows such as Debug Windows should be available from View.

The Debug menu is a specialized menu, all the common menu items for debugging should be available from this menu (such a view call stack).

Friday, June 18, 2004 7:34 AM by John Bullock

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Option #2.
Friday, June 18, 2004 7:40 AM by Christopher Lewis

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I'm personally in favor of 1), but 2) makes sense also.

I do have a suggestion for
I use floating debugger windows, all stacked on top of each other with tabs (I don't know what this is called). I don't dock them, because I want to move them out of the way if I need to look at my code. However, if you accidentally click the close button, *all* debug windows go away. To bring them back, you need to do the following:

Debug->Windows->Locals
Debug->Windows->Call Stack
Debug->Windows->Auto
Debug->Windows->Immediate
Debug->Windows->Watch->Watch1

That's *a lot* of mouse clicking to undo a single errant mouse click.

I'd *LOVE* a way to restore all my debug windows.
Something like
Debug->Windows->DebugView->View1

You could even have multiple configs, such as "minimal", "normal", "Max", "All"

Friday, June 18, 2004 8:59 AM by Bill McCarthy

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I think you are actually asking the wrong question.
Friday, June 18, 2004 10:47 AM by Matthew Adams

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Another vote for View->Debugger Windows here. Even though those windows have been on the debug menu for ages, I *always* look for them in the wrong place first, because learning 'view' for windows is somehow more primitive than 'debug'.

In fact, I find the debug menu as a whole difficult and time consuming to use. The fact that there are things to do with running the app *with and without* the debugger, the fact that it is almost always easier to use the Tools...Attach to process to attach to remote processes, because it is nearer the top of the menu, than it is to find it buried in the debug menu...
Friday, June 18, 2004 10:57 AM by Kevin Dente

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

+1 for 2)
Friday, June 18, 2004 10:59 AM by Jim Griesmer

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I have to agree with Matthew. I am a Debugger UI dev, and I *always* use Tools.Attach To Process for the same reasons he mentions.

I even accidentally looked for the debug windows under the View menu myself one night when I was working really late and I was really tired.

So I'm all for making a change. The more responses we get in support of a change, the better.
Friday, June 18, 2004 11:26 AM by Bard Sorensen

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Clearly option #2 Seems logical....
Friday, June 18, 2004 8:53 PM by Mikhail Arkhipov (MSFT)

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Leave is Debug menu! PLEEEEEEEEEAAAASE!
Saturday, June 19, 2004 12:56 PM by Chango V.

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Please don't move them again! I still hesitate where to look for a debugger window first. (The worst part is occasionally I need to go back to VC 6.) And please assign simple, logical default keyboard shortcuts to the most useful windows. Browsing menus is wasting time.
Sunday, June 20, 2004 11:22 AM by Andreas Eliasson

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Number 2 of course.
Sunday, June 20, 2004 4:16 PM by Aaron Brethorst

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

View --> Debuggers, But I think I'm biased on this ;-).
Monday, June 21, 2004 1:16 AM by Cyrus Najmabadi

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Definitely #2. I'm _always_ looking for the windows there and it drives me nuts that i can't find them. I need to remember that they're on the debugger menu.

Why can't they be on both?
Monday, June 21, 2004 12:38 PM by Carl Daniel (VC++ MVP)

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I hate it when things move around for apparently no good reason... That said, I'd vote for moving them to View|Debug - that's where I always look for them before remembering that they're under Debug|Windows.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 7:36 AM by Eric Vincent

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

There really shouldn't be any discussion. They're _windows_, made for _viewing_, option 2 is the only answer. The only argument you could make for option 1 is that it's already under the debug window, so you've got to live with a mistake, but that's not much of an argument.

While it's true that they display information related to debugging, they don't actually perform debugging functions. I expect to find debugging functions under the debug menu.

Also consider that the other window options are consolidated under view, so why should these deserve special treatment?

Grab the rip cord, take the leap, do it right.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 1:15 PM by rob

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Number 2, but add a configuration option or registry key that allows you to revert back to number 1 for those who are already used to the old way. Giving users the ability to customize their dev environment is a very, very, very good thing.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 1:44 PM by me

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Number 2 is much more logical. I also don't think that a "VS7" compatibility profile would be out of line, especially in light of the other rumored key mapping changes.

However, isn't the real question (as Ken correctly points out) why don't people just change the layout to suit their own personal fancy? After all, if that isn't what Tools -> Customize... is for, then what *IS* it for?

This seems to be a versioning situation where (unlike, ahem, changing API's, for example) you can pretty safely make a change for the sake of consistency, aesthetics, or whatever and people have an existing, well-defined recourse to revert to the old behavior if they like.
Tuesday, June 22, 2004 7:54 PM by Keith Hill

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I'd vote for #2 also since it is consistent with the other tool windows. Just make sure you leave the "Windows" dropdown button on the Debug toolbar.
Wednesday, June 23, 2004 12:52 PM by Christian R

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?


I would also vote for #2. Despite knowing they have moved, I continue to auto-pilot to View then to Debug to find the Windows (like Memory).
Friday, June 25, 2004 6:13 AM by szoke

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

No2 is the ultimate.
Friday, June 25, 2004 6:51 AM by Drazen Dotlic

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Definitely #2 - at least that's where I look for it every now and then, only to remember it's not there ;)
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 12:14 PM by Steve O'Brien

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

I'll go with #2.

Additional debugging requests:
1) A mode to automatically step through code at a settable speed, so you don't have to keep pressing the step key (with a pause button).
2) An assignments window with 2 columns that each time the code does an assignment, puts the code executed in the left column, and the value assigned in the right column. When debugging, you could set a breakpoint at the place you know an error has occurred, then using the assignments window, work backward to determine where things went wrong.
Wednesday, June 30, 2004 8:59 PM by Corneliu I. Tusnea

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Option 2.
+ Lock (Panos Theofanopoulos)
+ Keep the shortcuts (Ilya Ryzhenkov)
BTW, who come up with the "Ctrl+Shit+B" combination? And who can press it with one hand only?
One more: When setting up the new shortcuts please make sure you do a usability test on a Natural Keyboard also (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productlist.aspx?type=Keyboard). It makes quite a difference.
Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:40 PM by Michael Teper

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Under "View", with the rest of them.
Wednesday, March 05, 2008 3:05 PM by mlepage

# re: Debugger Window Menu Items: Where should they be?

Seems unanimous to move them under the View menu (and I agree), yet in 2008 they remain under the Debugger menu. Whatever happened?

Leave a Comment

(required) 
required 
(required) 
 
Page view tracker