Apple on Intel?

Because we can Apple on Intel | Paid Surveys

Because we can Apple on Intel | Paid Surveys — Fri, 29 May 2009 23:36:37 GMT

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re: Apple on Intel?

zzz — Sun, 17 Jul 2005 14:28:11 GMT

Sooner or later OS X/Intel will run under VMWare. Running Windows under OS X makes little sense. The games wouldn't run!

re: Apple on Intel?

malx — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:49:07 GMT

Shane: well, I'm sure they'll try.

I'm not really convinced, however. Any check, even a hardware dongle check, can be circumvented by a few bytes of binary patching in software. I think the guy who wrote that article is on my wavelength: "It will only be a matter of time before someone somewhere breaks..."; "The solution is apparent; Apple must make its OS X compatible"...

I'm sure they'll try. But it's an uphill battle, and they'll find it hard. The locks will need to be up in Window Manager code, and it would be relatively straightforward to run under a backlevel Darwin OS in a debugger...

re: Apple on Intel?

Shane — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 02:40:07 GMT

In regard to my comment, slashdot has some info on how people think Apple might lock Apple x86 hardware down:
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/06/08/2216259.shtml?tid=167&tid=118&tid=113&tid=179

re: Apple on Intel?

Shane — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 02:33:57 GMT

Is it infeasable that they might not be using x86 architecture?

re: Apple on Intel?

malx — Thu, 09 Jun 2005 01:36:14 GMT

Mike: difficult, but a lot easier than emulating PPC.

Apple have already confirmed the Intels won't use open firmware. They haven't announced what they will use, but here's a tip: Darwin runs on a PC BIOS today. They are building from a PC-based solution into a proprietary one, and for that reason, I'm not expecting a really comprehensive effort.

Some commentators have suggested, although I haven't heard this confirmed, that the Intel-Macs will run Windows. If they're going to support a PC BIOS, again, they can't be that different.

If the Open Source version of Darwin is maintained to be PC BIOS compatible, then it'd be really easy to replace an OS X kernel with the PC BIOS version and boot. In fact, if the kernel remains truly open, even a non-PC BIOS compatible kernel, it could be modified (especially given the PC BIOS code is already known.)

There are just way too many head-starts to running this on PCs. Apple is going to have to try to put the cat back in the bag, or give up, and let it go.

re: Apple on Intel?

Mike — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 21:40:53 GMT

I'm gonna go out on some slippery ice, but I think I won't fall.

"even if Apple wanted to prevent people running OS X on PCs, it would likely be almost impossible. Sure, there might be some hardware differences, some odd devices, maybe even a completely new BIOS. But how hard is it - really - to emulate those things and run at near-native speed?"

Close to impossible.

Apple is a hardware company. They already stated OS X will only run on Apple hardware. No x86 PC's.

My educated guess is that they will not only have their own ASIC(s) on their mobo, but they will also continue to be several decades ahead of the shitty x86 PC's BIOS by using a real "something" called OpenBoot or OpenFirmware or something like that.

The only way you could emulate something like this so early in the boot sequence is by either running the OS fully inside an emulator, or have a CPU capable of fooling the OS into believing it's running on the metal (MC68020 did this over 15 years ago - Intel is just now catching up with Vanderpool).

If you have a Vanderpool CPU and a seriously cool hypervisor you could *possibly* fool OS X into believing it ran on its intended hardware (assuming they aren't as sneaky as MS is alleged of becoming and require some challenge-response hardware cryptographic stuff). If not, I think you're left to emulate it - even if very fast like with QEMU.

re: Apple on Intel?

Ben — Wed, 08 Jun 2005 15:32:59 GMT

It'll be interesting to see if Apple do accept any trickery that people perform on their machines to get OSX to run on a generic PC; and if so, how Microsoft reacts, specifically, the Macintosh software division - whether support for Office:mac is pulled or not.

I can see how Microsoft would take it as a bit of a threat to their own OS, but, as always, competition is good - both for Apple and Microsoft.

re: Apple on Intel?

Ryan — Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:27:58 GMT

Great post.

Its going to be interesting to see how smooth the transition really is for the developers... and whether or not rosetta lives up to the users' standards.