PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Doug Mahugh — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:41:50 GMT

Hi Dinesh,

My understanding is that we were informed by PIKOM that IBM and Microsoft could each bring a group of 5 to present the case for or against DIS29500. That's what I heard beforehand, and there were 5 of you sitting together and expressing the same side of many issues, so I though that's what was going on.

Were you invited by the PIKOM people who set up the meeting with IBM and Microsoft, or by IBM directly?

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Dinesh Nair — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:41:47 GMT

Doug,

At the onset, it was communicated to me (at least!) that only PIKOM members were to be allowed, hence the reason why YK was not able to come in. Apparently this was relaxed somewhat later on, by which time it was too late for folk like YK to change other plans made.

And please, as I have stated above, calling it an IBM delegation does show some measure of disrespect to the other companies there, mine included, for we are not and neither have we ever had any commercial dealings with IBM.

QubeConnect attended as a PIKOM member and as a company which is strongly involved in standards development, both globally and in Malaysia.

As it was, the opposing side to DIS29500 consisted of disparate companies, 3 of whom were PIKOM members and 2 of whom were Malaysian companies. Comparatively, the supporting side of DIS29500 consisted of 4 representatives from one company (Microsoft) and an ex-(bang on table !)-ECMA official, none of whom were representing a Malaysian company.

I would term it a diverse group of companies, local and MNC, against a single delegation from Microsoft.

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

anonymous — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:58:33 GMT

Typical big company/country arrogance

*We are better than everybody.. because we are somewhat of a monopoly*

*Other countries should bow down to the big daddy of the software world because there is no other alternative software*

*Other countries do it wrong ours does really well*

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Doug Mahugh — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:08:54 GMT

Dinesh, some things don't add up here. For one thing, Google isn't a PIKOM member, as you seem to know -- so why were they there?

I'll tell you why I think they were there: because both IBM and Microsoft were told (by CJ) that they could bring a delegation of any five people of their choosing to attend the meeting, to present opposiing sides of the debate around DIS29500. Are you saying that this is not true?

As for YK's attendance and other details of the IBM delegation, I won't bother to recount all the things we heard in the hours before the meeting, but suffice to say that the IBM delegation changed several times and Hassan himself seems to have been in two or three countries at the same time, if all of the things we were told Wednesday afternoon are true.

As I said, some things don't add up. I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the above.

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Dinesh Nair — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:49:09 GMT

Hi Doug,

I'd like to correct a couple of misconceptions you seem to make in this blog post.

Firstly, my presence there (and I believe Yusseri's, Shane's and Jeremy's) wasn't for IBM. We were all representing our own companies being OmniLogic (Yusseri), Google (Jeremy), Oracle (Shane) and QubeConnect (me). Only Hasan represented IBM. As such, to say that we were IBM representatives is a little far from the truth.

Secondly, to suggest that there were no PIKOM members there is also not entirely true. QubeConnect, IBM and Oracle are full fledged PIKOM members, just as Microsoft is. Clearly, there were more PIKOM members on our side of the table then there was on the other.

As to YK's lack of presence, and as Ditesh noted, the rules to allow non-PIKOM members in were only changed at the last minute, and by then YK had already other engagements to honour, hence his lack of attendance.

An "open standards" meeting in Malaysia

Doug Mahugh — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:39:11 GMT

Man, what does a guy have to do to find a technical debate in Malaysia? I've spent 72 hours trying to

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Doug Mahugh — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:35:51 GMT

No problem, Ditesh, I know the feeling. Great to see you this morning; enjoy the laptop stickers. :-)

Carlos, based on the caliber of the technical debate at that meeting, I think I over-prepared, actually.

Orlando, if your point is that you're jealous of that massage, you should be -- it was great!

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

Ditesh Gathani — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:27:04 GMT

Doug,

Sorry, I posted that late at night and I was very tired.

I believe PIKOM changed the rules very late to allow non-members to attend the meeting. Too bad really, we would liked to discuss the issues with you.

Cheers.

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

orlando — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:32:23 GMT

"OK guys, I'm checking out of this beautiful hotel "

ok, just do what you know: beautiful hotel visiting ( http://blogs.msdn.com/dmahugh/archive/2008/02/27/relaxing-in-geneva.aspx ) and almost 0 productive ( technical ) work

but please, let countries do his standardization work and judgemente ALONE and stop the lobbying tour !

orlando

re: PIKOM meeting in Malaysia

carlos — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:29:02 GMT

" I was invited to come talk to PIKOM about Malaysia's comments, which I had never studied before, so I hopped on a plane, spent a few hours studying them, and showed up at the meeting and talked about them. "

a perfect sketch of this DIS 29500 process: rushed work and pure lobbying ( technical quality? Microsoft/ECMA: no thanks, but we answered "agreed" to most comments ! )