JavaOne2006 - Interop Session

I went to a few sessions at JavaOne 2006. One was called Best Practices for Interoperability Between Java Technology and .NET Server Applications - it was put on by Ray Lai, an independent, and Marina Fisher of Sun, along with Larry Moroney of MainSoft. This was a pretty popular session, I would guess somewhere between 500 and 750 people were in attendance. Apparently it's a topic of interest!

About half of the session covered options for interconnecting Java apps with .NET, including webservices and other approaches. The second half wasn't really interop; instead it covered Mainsoft's Mainwin product.

In the section covering webservices, Ray Lai gave some very good advice: start with schema first, confine your interfaces to a simple subset of XML Schema. Test often. Look out for edge cases. All good stuff. By the way, that applies regardless of the endpoints: Java, .NET, PHP, C++, or anything else.

Marina Fisher talked about other possibilities for interop. Message queues, for example - a good interop mechanism. She did not mention that MSMQ can be an effective bridge between Java and .NET. She implied that it would take a JMS bridge and some other magic, when it's actually much simpler than that, as I have previously described. The simple approach also works with IBM MQseries (and I sound like I am repeating myself, but yes, I have described that previously, too)

But for the most part, the interop portion of the session was good, solid, fundamental advice.

On to Mainwin

Then we moved to the Mainwin portion of the session. MainWin apparently allows people to develop in ASP.NET apps in Visual Studio, then run the result on a J2EE-compliant app server.

This isn't interop per-se, or at least I don't think of it as interop. It is more like cross-compiling or cross-targeting, rather than inter-system communication. So I felt it was a little out of place in this session. But it wasn't my session and they didn't ask me, did they?

Mainsoft, I gather, is able to pull off this magic by translating MSIL to Java bytecode. That takes care of the ASP.NET app itself, but what about the underlying ASP.NET runtime? Well, apparently Mainsoft also ran the MSIL-to-bytecode translator on the .NET runtime from project Mono. So the app, plus the underlying ASP.NET runtime, are all compiled into Java bytecode. The result just works, so they say; it just runs on a J2EE container. (I didn't try this)

I suppose there would be a few problems, for example, if you tried to reference a class that Mono does not implement, or if you tried to reference a 3rd-party assembly from within the ASP.NET app - let's say you wanted to connect to IBM MQSeries from within the app via the IBM MQ Classes for .NET. I don't think this assembly is available (in translated form) on the Mainsoft runtime. Not sure, though. I'm just guessing.

Also, I don't know if Mono has kept current with ASP.NET 2.0, including the membership stuff, and the other providers.

What about Licensing?

One of the first questions the audience asked was, "what about licensing - are there license implications if you run ASP.NET on J2EE on Linux, for example?" The answer from Mr Moroney of Mainsoft was: "No. No license is required."

Needless to say, this was a surprising answer. Microsoft considers .NET to be its intellectual property. We've invested considerable effort building .NET, including ASP.NET. Part of .NET was standardized with ISO and ECMA - that part includes the C# language as well as a subset of the CLR and the .NET base class library. Part of .NET was not submitted to ECMA or ISO.

Mono replicates the stuff that is standardized, but goes further by also replicating the parts of .NET that are not standardized, and adding other pieces. The second category of stuff (parts of .NET that are not standardized) are Microsoft's intellectual property. For someone from Mainsoft to say "there are no license implications" ignores that fact. Even the Mono website doesn't say that. I don't know of an agreement between Mainsoft and Microsoft on the license of this particular technology. Nor do I know of any agreement between Microsoft and Novell (owner of the Mono project) on same.

I am not a lawyer, but "no problem, dude!" seems like too quick an answer to me. I pointed that out in the room, when I got a chance to speak.

Downplaying web services?

I also did not agree with the spin on webservices from Mainsoft. Essentially it was, "Did you see all those interop pitfalls Ray Lai pointed out? Use Mainwin and get interop, while avoiding that stuff." I am paraphrasing, but that was the honest gist of it.

That seems like overselling to me. My position: Web services works, and works well. This approach solves lots of problems today, and it is the main area of interop investment by Sun, Microsoft, IBM, and many other companies. It works today, and it's mostly pretty easy, and it's just going to get better. The correct message is: You should have exceptional conditions to do something other than webservices for interop today.

And ...re-hosting ASP.NET on a J2EE container, aside from going into unexplored IP territory, isn't really interop anyway.

Cheers,
-Dino