Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

hAl — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:03:57 GMT

This IE8 CSS issue is still present in IE9:

https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/408759/overflow-scroll-causes-element-to-always-have-its-max-height

Same for this one:

https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/details/442805/visibility-visible-applied-to-inline-element-doesn-t-override-inherited-visibility-hidden-value-applied-to-it-s-block-level-parent#details

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Marcelo — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:26:45 GMT

Hi Jason, are you planning to move to XP also?? as a web developer, I would love to test my pages in IE9, but it-s impossible for me to upgrade to vista/7.

Thanks

Marcelo

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

PhistucK — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:31:34 GMT

Everyone - you can spread the word.

The unofficial public tracker for Internet Explorer is now up and running at GoogleCode.

http://code.google.com/p/openbrowserissuetracker/issues/list

I am posting this comment twice - one for this post and one for the newest post.

Note that if it does not receive the proper attention after a certain amount of time, I will cease to maintain it.

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Number of customers doesn't count? — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 19:19:26 GMT

Just wanted to let Microsoft know that not supporting Windows XP is a big mistake they are making. XP is a legendary OS, one that's seen the most success ever than any Windows operating system will see and is as of 2010 as old as it might be, the world's most popular operating system. It's shameful really that the OS maker is the first to drop support for its most successful Windows product when there are millions using it. You can't ignore the truth that XP as of 2010 is your most used and popular OS and one that is going to remain the most popular until at least 2012-13. You might as well support one last revision of IE which has critcal improvements to web standards rendering on your most popular OS ever. I swear as an XP user, even if I do upgrade my OS ever to Windows 7, I will not use IE.

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Paul — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:43:59 GMT

@ Gerard

If you're trying to help, why not consolidate your information and send it? If you're not trying to help, then why are you here again?

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Will Peavy — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:42:06 GMT

The DOM 3 event support in IE9 is awesome. I hope you guys keep mouseenter/mouseleave in IE even if those events get axed from the DOM 3 candidate rec.

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Gérard Talbot — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 17:19:38 GMT

@sane

> Complain all you want but Microsoft is engaging developers RIGHT NOW in the IE9 development process. Why any of this should be viewed as a bad thing, I sure as hell don't know.

You are missing one important detail here. Microsoft is engaging *_non-XP_* (Vista & 7 only) developers RIGHT NOW in the IE9 development process. And a lot of people are complaining right now precisely about that.

> IE9 is shown to pass *new* tests Microsoft/W3C developed (and contributed to the community), suddenly it's "Microsoft is evil, they're lying again, this is just marketing FUD."

Microsoft has in the past over-excessively exaggerated its browser version 8 in many MSDN webpages, marketing webpages, declarations in IE blog. You will not see anymore IE Team people saying that IE 8 fully complies with CSS 2.1 spec these days. Dean Hachamovitch is now saying "IE8 delivered a high-quality CSS 2.1 implementation" which is a lot more fair, balanced, I'd say.

A lot of people are demanding right now support for Ogg Theora and Vorbis in IE9.

I want openess, interoperability, web-standards-compliance: that was true 10 years ago and that will be true in 10 years from now wrt any web-aware softwares.

regards, Gérard

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Gérard Talbot — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:39:16 GMT

@sane

> What the page DOES reveal is the current state of IE9 versus the other browsers, in the context of those tests.

Personally, I think that

- providing such a small batch of testcases (104)

- spread over, scattered in 6 different specs

- with 3 of them still not CR, "proposed web standards" dixit Jason Upton

definitely does not reveal the current state of IE9 versus other browsers.

Even if you absolutely want to consider only those 104 testcases, there are still problems...

Both Mozilla (Firefox, Seamonkey, Camino, etc) browsers and Safari 4 browser support border-radius (and have been supporting border-radius for quite some time) but with the vendor-prefix version. So why list all the red cell "Fail", then count the score and then add a small asterisk (*) saying that they do not support the non-prefixed version?

3 testcases in "DOM Level 2

Style" are wrong. Period.

Any testcase which does not declare a strict DTD and has validation markup errors is not "Professional-grade".

The goal of industry standards is actually “interoperability.” (...) In the web case, that means the same HTML, script, and formatting markup work the same across different browsers.

That's only true for valid markup code, valid CSS code and ECMAScript and DOM compliant code. As soon as the markup is not valid, then there is no reliability, no certainty on the rendered layout.

So many people lose sight of the fact that Microsoft is made up of developers just like us.

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.com%2Fie%2Fdefault.aspx&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

reports 1086 markup errors

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.com%2Fie%2Farchive%2F2010%2F03%2F17%2Ftest-drive-104-new-professional-grade-tests-for-web-standards.aspx&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=Inline&group=0

reports 331 errors

Microsoft should start practising what it preaches in those IE blog posts and in all other Microsoft-controlled websites.

regards, Gérard

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Jason [MSFT] — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 15:49:17 GMT

@Gérard Talbot

This is great feedback. Can you please start the case-by-case feedback as threads at the appropriate W3C mailing lists though? That's why I provided links. Having debates among the membership in the official forum is the right place to discuss any syntax issues or test assertions. Thanks!

re: Test drive 104 new Professional-grade tests for web standards

Claudio Holanda — Thu, 18 Mar 2010 13:31:21 GMT

Don't forget about text-shadow property...

Don't forget about memory-eat by IE...

Don't forget about fix fade bugs of effects using jquery... (PNG IMAGES)

well i think is that, good luck.