Why do 2D worlds make sense?

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Jake — Tue, 25 May 2010 22:04:38 GMT

Although we live in a 3d world we only perceive it through our 2d vision, it only seems 3d because we see it through stereoscopy giving us depth perception

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Steve Hazen — Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:17:43 GMT

Quote from Shawn's post:> There is something fundamentally mind-warpingly hard about trying to visualize 3D math,

Here's a perspective on a difference in visualizing the math between 2d & 3d.

The math that gets complicated is often rotations. In 2d there is only ever one rotation axis that you have to worry about. No matter what, all rotations occur about the Z axis.. period. Rotationally speaking, 2d is really only 1d.

In the same sense though (rotationally speaking), 3d is really infinity[d] as an object can rotate about an infinite number of different axis at the same time. Sure, all the rotations that occur at the same time can be summed up into one axis and one angle, but even that summed axis has an infinite range of value possibilities. But not 2d, it's always (0, 0, 1), and that's one reason 2d is easier to mentally keep up with.

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Morten — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 13:00:02 GMT

"where in 2D we would just sketch the problem on the back of an envelope"

This part is great! At the time of writing this I have at least three empty envelopes lying on my table with sketches of some 2D logic I've been trying to visualize >_<

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Baqueta — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:11:22 GMT

I can empathise Shawn, anything other than the simplest 3D maths inevitably makes me feel like a complete dullard!

Personally I think it's down to a several different things:

- There are always more factors to consider - 3 'basic' planes instead of 1; extra vector components. This has 2 knock-on effects:

- There are many more combinations of interacting factors to consider.

- We run out of 'working memory' much more quickly! Human brains can only deal with quite a limited number of simultaneous considerations.

- Things like matrices and quaternions which help with 3D maths are much more abstract than basic trig stuff (which is pretty much all the maths that's required for 2d).

- The diagram issue: As other people have mentioned, the difficulty in sketching out clear 3d diagrams on 2d paper makes it that much harder to keep track of everything.

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Aranda Morrison — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:25:58 GMT

The obvious answer is that the mind gravitates towards simplicity, and 3D is fundamentally more difficult than 2D. I can't even begin to imagine how 4D might look, 3D is big and complex, but I can totally own 2D.

It could also be partly a product of our generation. We all grew up sinking countless hours into those 2D games, which often even attempted to be 3D with parallax backgrounds. We're all so used to it that it Just Makes Sense. Perhaps with the increasing amount new 3D televisions and movies, kids will start to visualise problems in 3D much more easily than we ever did.

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

jonathand@k2.com — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 10:52:51 GMT

I think maybe because we work on a 2D plane. From an early age its glyphs on a flat plane (reading), screens are 2D, Windows/Mac/Linux is 2D.

Although, that said we do react stronger to 3D. The Vista switcher and Linux Compiz are good examples of this. I cant cite or anything, but neurons actively die if you dont use them (if you dont use it you loose it). So as babies we probably can conceptualize 3D space.

So as Rodrigo said: Lego FTW =). Dont mess around with crummy 2D games with your kids, get them thinking in 4 dimensions (time) - maybe some 4D game such as Cogs.

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Rodrigo Cardoso — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 04:14:21 GMT

[A little off]

There IS a 3d Sketching method that kids like to use a lot. Its Called LEGO =)

This kind of toys can be used to sketch things in 3d...

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Kevin — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:38:19 GMT

I agree with the first poster. the medium (a flat screen) is the issue. You (the game developer) are doing your darndest to simulate 3D space but it is a simulation and our brains are (slightly) rejecting the concept.

bring on the holo-screens!

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Sebastian — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 22:25:25 GMT

Wouldn't some of this be down to the difference between the calculation you are consciously thinking through (the 2d maths) and the sub conscious knowledge of spacial relativity (the 3d world we live in).

Let me support this theory. A child aged 4 can throw a ball to their parents, yet they would be unable to mathematically calculate this information using their conscious mind; regardless if it was a 2D or 3D set of space.

I think your point about estimation is the key; we have evolved to find the near enough is probably good enough when it comes to the calculations in our 3d environment and that doesn't translate well to a calculated answer on a piece of paper.

~Sebastian

re: Why do 2D worlds make sense?

Anthony — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:56:37 GMT

While 2D games don't match up to reality, they do match up to our mental models of it.