I think we can safely say the Information Architects team are no fans of Microsoft but it may be that their recent Trend Map may have some delays on the line if the Yahoo deal goes through. They claim that Microsoft will not be happy as "Passport" has no significance. Well Passport has gone guys and it's now Windows Live ID. You'd think they would have found that from Wikipedia right? Nah, easier to just make it up and ignore the 380 million users logging in over 1.2 billion times a day. Small fry.
Whilst we're on Live, go check out Live Labs guys. Seadragon, Photosynth, Deepfish anyone? On and Windows Live Writer and Popfly and Silverlight.
I got a little tired with the rest of the cheap shots but that's okay as they "included plenty of insider jokes, ironic hints, and sarcasm". Marking Microsoft down as exhausted must be an insider joke about the $52bn :)
I love their maps, I'm just not sure how rooted in reality they are.
Steve,
You might be right about the delay.
YAHOO GOES DOWN TOO
Yet if the deal goes through, all we need to do is putting Xs on Yahoo and moving eBay some place else. But believe me, our MS-positioning is not just an opinion of some dreamy Apple boy. It is my fierce professional conviction as an online strategist and interactive brand consultant that buying up another Dinosaur is not the way to succeed in the online business. All MS will achieve by taking over declining Yahoo! is running down Yahoo! even more. You will have to deal with potential user rage and exodus (the Flickr crowd is definitely going to give you a hard time).
EVERYTHING LIVE?
Most amusing: "Well Passport has gone guys and it's now Windows Live ID."
Oh yeah? And you believe we didn't know that, do you?
--The problem I have when talking about Microsoft online products is that I have the choice between rebranding catastrophe nomenclature and names that people actually know. The whole Live rebranding is one prototypical mistake and everyone knows it. You can tell if a brand works by watching people's mouths. Everybody still says Hotmail. Why is that? Because the whole Live concept is a chimera. That's why Passport. So I don't need to follow your caprioles.
MS BRAND
We put a lot of though, care and research into this. If Microsoft were as careful and reflected as we are, they wouldn't ((feel the) need to) buy Yahoo. Let me give you some insights in how we think:
--The problem you guys have is that the driving personality behind the MS brand now is berserker. Your brand consultancy probably won't tell you that, but since the inspiring Gates has left the building, MS has a top level branding problem, much greater and much more profound than the Live chimera: Steve B. is not an inspiring person. Steve B.'s shark charm will not just reflect on your strategy and products, but on your brand perception as a whole. By expanding even more with such a difficult integration figure on the steering wheel things will get much worse.
HONESTLY DEFENDING OUR COMPANIES
I understand that you feel the need to defend your company. After all, that's what I do here myself.
But then again, let's do that in an honest way: Do you really feel comfortable with that 52Bn Yahoo deal? What else if not a sign of desperation in front of Google would that be? Do you believe the whole Live rebranding was that smart? Is there one original MS Internet project that you can be truly proud of? Why are you guys behaving like dicks in the HTML5 work group?
Let's be even more honest: Remember when we were talking last year about the eventuality that Microsoft might sponsor the map? Remember what I said? Let me refresh your memory: "No problem," I said, "but we won't change our dark prognosis for you guys."
ONE MORE THING
It is tough to get things right when dealing with 300 websites in such a complex setup, and there are mistakes on the map, and that's why we run a betaphase this time. Noone complained about our Microsoft assessment so far... And as far as I know you are also the first trying to play it down.
At least that should make you think.
Best
Oliver
SeaDragon/Deepfish/PhotoSynth is all based on acquired technology from the SeaDragon deal.
Windows Live Writer was acquired technology.
Easy to do when you are the wealthiest software company in the world.
Wills
Feedburner, Picasa, Blogger, YouTube, DoubleClick, Postini ring any bells?
http://www.mydigimedia.com/images/WhoOwnsWhat.jpg
Next...
Hey Oliver, thanks for the long well thought out response. Here's mine to yours :)
I'm not going to publicly comment on the Yahoo deal in details as it makes no real sense to until the deal is done. The Flickr crowd are already on our backs but the same was true when Flickr bought them. You're entitled to your opinion on the merits or otherwise of the deal and I respect that.
I don't disagree with you on the Live/Hotmail branding. I just thought it was disingenuous to get it wrong, even more so when you did it in purpose. I just thought it showed lack of research. Clearly I was wrong.
On the brand front, I think this is one for personal opinion and it depends where you sit. if you're Interbrand for example (who I assume put a lot of work in to branding) think the Microsoft brand does have some value.
So finally on the defending of companies - yep, that is what we're both doing and in a passionate way. I respect your opinions and glad you respect mine - it'll make for a much more constructive conversation than I usually have with my commentators :)
Like I said, it's not right for me to comment on the Yahoo deal. You may disagree but that's the position I will take until there is some degree of certainty. I don't think it's a sign of desperation though and will explain at future point why I think that way.
An internet project I am proud of? Yeah, Popfly. And Silverlight. And Windows Live Writer even if some of it is bought in technology.
I do remember what you said last year but I don't know why you're reminding me? I'm not trying to buy changes from you rather just pointing out where I feel there are inconsistencies and that changes like the proposed Yahoo deal will always make the map a very tough job.
You've done a brilliant job with it and asking for input it to your credit. I'm not surprised nobody has complained about the Microsoft parts to date. People often overlook us :)
You did give me something to think about Oliver and I hope I've done likewise. The map is a great asset and using the crowd to make it better, even if you disagree is what this new world is all about.
regards
Steve
Thanks Steve,
I totaly understand that you cannot comment on Yahoo yet. Just one more remark: I worked for Interbrand for 4 years. Interbrand's brand valuation is in my blood. Microsoft's brand value in terms of economic brand value is gigantic. No doubt about that.
Now, total market penetration, maximum brand recognition, unbroken leadership, etc etc. But my point is (and that's straight out of the Interbrand branding book): In terms of Internet branding you guys suck. And that's what the map is about. Yes, I know my top 100 lists... ((The Interbrand Top 100 is one source of inspiration for the web trend map. And that is what I hope the trendmap will become one day. The equivalent for online brands.))
The other point is a little more subjective, but then again it's also straight Interbrand philosophy: "Behind a great brand there is a great personality" -- The overall MS brand will suffer because the personality behind it is impossible to identify with.
O.
gotcha on the brand thing. You're talking more web kudos than financial clout and yep, we have much work to do for sure. we could learn from the Zune and XBOX guys as I have mentioned on the blog before.
would love to see you out at MIX08 in Vegas next month. the guys behind that are working hard to address the shortcomings you're pointing out as we evolve (again) from an enterprise company to somewhere between that and an internet company.
as you will know from Interbrand days, turning a tanker is hard.
Personally I'm always suspicious of phrases such as "almost 300 of the most influential and successful websites", since that's so easily parsed as "sites that we and our friends like".
On the other hand, I agree about Ballmer...despite being a very smart man with many talents etc. etc., his bull-in-a-China-shop approach to business is exactly what Microsoft *doesn't* need at a time when it is so widely distrusted and disliked, is under a regulatory microscope in many places, and has competitors who are eager to seize any opportunity to say "Look! He kicked me!".
Sorry, Steve, but I hope you read Oiver's reply ( http://www.formforce.com/with-or-without-yahoo ). He is so right about MS branding. What is Live ID compared to the possibilities of an open standard like OpenID. As for the other services: There are dozens, if not hundreds of alternative products available (take other mail providers, document editors or the much better integrated Picniq picture editing site). I think it's wrong to say they should have done their homework -- a sucessful brand is one you DON'T have to look up in Wikipedia. At least in my opinion. #1 rule (IMHO) for building a brand: How important and easy to use are my services to my customers? Will he come back to this web app, even if there are alternatives -- or is my subscriber base just built on market dominance or a first-mover advantage?
hi Jan
as you will see above, i did read and had a good open discussion with Oliver. no disrespect but I'm not sure OpenID is any better a brand than Live ID. I'm not sure why you've mixed the fact it's an open standard with branding? added to which Microsoft supports OpenID
@ Steve
Where did I say anything about Google? I was merely refuting the claim that you are some new harbour of coolness because of acquisitions.
Great strawman post though.
@Wills
noted though not sure I claimed we're a harbour of coolness did I?
cheers
steve
Fair do's
I concede