Steve, you need to read more! Like the last paragraph of my post:

[Before the legions of committed and engaged Microsoft employees reading this write in, please consider my point. I'm not saying that there aren't large pockets of innovation or joy at Microsoft. I'm saying that Vista and PowerPoint and Microsoft's other core non-game products are largely devoid of personality and are optimized to be sold to organizations that prefer it that way. Microsoft can change this if they want to, but until they do, running ads pretending to be something other than that is a waste of money.]

I talk to Microsoft executives regularly, get mail from Microsoft employees and users regularly as well.

I'm delighted that you are engaged and motivated and know plenty of people who are. But that wasn't my point. My point was that the number of times I've heard someone (any age) saying, "oh, that's your problem? you've got to start using Vista! It's amazing!!!" is quite small. Actually, it's zero.

That's not why Powerpoint or Vista or Office exist. They exist to adequately solve a large scale problem, not to create excited legions of dedicated fans. That was a smart choice (financially) for a very long time, but using advertising to make something new (the point of my post) is not the right tool.

Seth

I read the last para - and even mentioned in my own post up there :) Serioulsy, I thought long and hard about writing this post as it's tough to disagree with someone you admire so much. I just thought that last para ended up being a a cop out.

I know your post was about saying "make something worth talking about" as that's your schtick (which I love) but to me it came across as saying Apple and Google folks are more passionate than Microsoft folks. Sure, PowerPoint and Vista may not create legions of dedicated fans in the same way maybe an iPhone or a new beta service may do but Silverlight, Photosynth, SQL Server, Windows Live Writer and even Vista have plenty of fans.

The point you're making is a fine one - I just rankled with the notion that people here aren't passionate and blab on about standards and reliability all the time and not amazing products.

I heard my mother say (in slightly different words):  "oh, that's your problem? you've got to start using Vista! It's amazing!!!"  not too long ago.

She was talking about being able to find and organize her files without so much hassle (aka Windows Search) and I think she convinced my father to upgrade his (ancient) XP machine.

I've heard plenty of geekier type people say the same thing in other contexts such as .NET 3.5, XNA 3.0, Hypervisor, Mesh, and others (aka Microsoft's "platforms" and technologies).

The only things I heard people saying are great about Google is its search, and sometimes Gmail (those are usually from people who don't have access to an Outlook Web Access account).  For Apple, its the iPhone/iPod, with the occasional Mac appreciation.

To me, it seems like Microsoft has way MORE excited poeople spread out accross a much greater spectrum of the industry.

I suppose its all a matter of perspective, and who you know though :)

Many times that I read or hear a Microsoft employee blabbing about standards and reliability, they are being passionate about it.

Sometimes I couldn't care less about standards, just as long as the Framework class that I'm using cares about them. People can be passionate about things that you, or I, or the average consumer don't care anything about. Frankly, I'd rather have somebody be passionate about standards compliance than the kind of passion I see from a lot of Apple fans: "Ohh look! They released one in purple!"

Many times the people making purchasing decisions don't really care about passion, they want to see reams of boring numbers that prove they can interface with their Abacus simulator that run on big iron so old that it's got parts stamped with "C. Babbage".

As far as the overall level of passion at Microsoft, I think that can be seen by looking at the blogs.msdn.com feed. There's a lot of very passionate people who write about their work. Even the ones who aren't allowed to talk about what they are doing still take the time to write about something concerning the goings on a Microsoft. I've gotten the change to talk to lots of Microsoft employees by way of events, blogs, or forums and they all seem quite enthusiastic. The question, is how to put that passion out where the general public can see it?

I have to tell you Steve that it's very much a "who you talk to"

Microsoft Product teams - developers, product group managers, etc - very passionate.

Everyone else - "eh, it's a job"

They aren't passionate about Microsoft much more so than about anything else. For most you are more likely to get them excited talking about anything other than Microsoft solutions? Why? Because Microsoft outside of the innovative circles (noted above) is very much on a defense from the customer and partner base alike.

Maybe this is just a USA thing - but aside from the executives and people working on the product... meh.

So you're both wrong (or right) depending on which Microsoft is being discussed. On the whole, I'd say the mood is average and thats a dangerous place to be - thats where the other personality-deficient whales are: Oracle, IBM & Co.

-Vlad

Whilst I didn't much agree with the comment about employees (tho' from attending different styles MS events, I know where he is coming from, as Vlad points out...), I think Seth Godin does make a fair point. Apple has a niche product range and a very specific focus and reputation around cool design, backed up by their Genius bars in every Apple store. Google has talked from the rooftops about their desire to organise the world's information, backed up by becoming the de facto way people search for information on the Internet. Though I suspect their sparkle may dull as they keep introducing a broader range of services. What does Microsoft represent and what actions back up the message?

I'm disappointed that the latest MS advertising effort seems focused on copying/out-doing Apple. Pardon the pun but it really is like comparing apples with pears. When I wash my hair, I don't go 'Oooh, I do love a bit of Proctor & Gamble'. Duracell has achieved brand recognition thanks to a pink fluffy bunny beating a drum. Who owns Duracell? Proctor & Gamble...  

I don't quite get the link between passion and 'cool' that Godin seems to make.  Has he ever met a trainspotter, or anyone else with a uncool hobby/obsession?

Maybe he does really need to get out more - it sounds like he lives in an uber-cool bubble world.

I look after a product that on the surface, is pretty tedious.  It's mainly for financial and other folks dealing with numbers in large organizations.  It could never be considered cool.

However, that's not the point when it comes to passion, what is the point is that you make it the best it can be (with the usual real-world restrictions, of course - otherwise nothing would ever get shipped), make sure you help your users to save as much time as possible, and achieve as much as possible.  You strive to make a real difference.

Maybe you won't get many 'cool' customers, or even employees saying they have the coolest job in the world, but you might just get something way more satisfying for your efforts.

"Thanks, your software saved my marriage, I used to have to stay behind a few hours every night doing this the old way, and weekends too at month end closing.  I love seeing my kids the amount I do now".

Anyone ever say this about an iPod?  Didn't think so.

Tying passion to cool is the pinnacle of snobbery.  Passion stems from all sorts of places and can be about all sorts of mundane things.

By the way, talking to Google employees, they are preoccupied with canteengate and whether they'll still get comped for business travel time.  It's a small sample, I admit - but how large was Seth's?

Gareth

I have no clue which Microsoft employees Seth spoke with, and I’m gathering that Seth and I have a different definition of “passionate” – however, I personally have engaged with hundreds of Microsoft employees over the past few years and could not disagree with Seth more “passionately” (^_^)

Reading Microsoft’s thousands of MSDN & TechNet blogs demonstrates their passion for sharing their technical knowledge. With the exception of Steve Ballmer, I’ve not met a Microsoft zealot that blindly believes everything their company does is perfect, or “the best”

Blake Handler

Sharon, Vlad - I take your point on some of the events but I'd also question if they're really a conversation ;) too often a broadcast from someone with a slide deck than a real impassioned discussion

Steve, i read your post, and i went to read seth's post as well.

his line, 'When was the last time you had a similar experience with a Microsoft employee?' absolutely indictates that he's not interacting with the msft folks that i'm interacting with. i am a gold cert partner in Dallas, and i deal with the US field folks every day. they are energized and motivated by the msft messaging... almost to a fault. but there's no lack of energy and excitement about the technology and innovation that they're introducing into their customers' businesses.

in addition, i work regularly with the folks in the IW BMO, and they are very energized by the Office server and application products, which are generating legions of loyal, almost rabid, followers both within and outside msft.

seth may need to get out more on this issue.

thanks!

thanks Marc - glad to hear you're meeting with the same kind of Microsoft folks I'm familiar with!

I was amazed when I read that too Steve.

Seth's obviously never talked to anyone involved with Microsoft Advertising or adCenter! :-)

Why does Powerpoint need to have a personality anyway? To me it's vehical, a blank canvas with which to express my personality or that of the theme I'm talking about.

And why is your post not showing up as a trackback on his blog?

Does he not want his readers knowing he has a critic?

Now that's clever marketing!

I guess it depends which Apple employees you speak with Seth. I suggest you pay a visit to the Apple Store in Manchester's Trafford Centre on a damp Saturday afternoon. I think you will find a very different Apple experience, that will challenge your perceptions!

Maybe part of Seth's point when he states "When was the last time you had a similar experience with a Microsoft employee?" is that of accessibility.

A regular 'hockey mom' can easily track down an apple employee at their local mall, outside of Redmond, and potentially find a passionate person and have have some of that passion rub off on them during a course of a face-to-face conversation.

It's difficult to do the same with a Microsoft employee - they aren't usually at your local mall... for a face-to-face conversation you've got to go out of your way to attend one of the local events or be a techie and attend a conference...

otherwise you'll need to track down a blogger and hope your message/question gets past their spam filter, and they aren't in crunch mode and willing to answer your question.

I'm not doubting the passionalism (is that a word? ;) of MS employees, but Apple is able to more easily put a face on that passion for those outside the industry.