Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Stuart Ballard — Tue, 21 Dec 2004 17:46:00 GMT

I have a couple of questions related to #6 at the end of your post:

1) Isn't an "abstract method with a default concrete implementation" not an abstract method at all, but a virtual one? And doesn't a virtual method always have a concrete implementation? In other words, couldn't this requirement be restated as "abstract generic methods are prohibited?"

2) Does "generic method" mean just methods with their *own* type parameters (as in void Foo<T>(T t) {}) or does it also include methods whose parameters or return types are generic parameters of their enclosing type (as in class Foo<T> { void Foo(T t) {} })?

Another more general question: You mention that J# is a generics consumer in Whidbey. Could you give more information about exactly how J# is able to consume generics in a language that doesn't have any such concept? Has any effort been made at all to provide any level of compatibility, or at least non-conflict, with Java 5.0's own generics implementation, which is implemented in a radically different way than Whidbeys? For example, how would J# code work with a List<String>?

I Generics sono CLS-compliant

Daniele Bochicchio — Tue, 21 Dec 2004 18:06:00 GMT

Generics will be CLS Compliant in Whidbey

Dela's Ramblings — Tue, 21 Dec 2004 20:27:00 GMT

re: IEnumerable

Peter Golde — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 06:37:00 GMT

I generics saranno CLS compliant

UGbLog di Pierre Greborio — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 14:09:00 GMT

GreatNews

Robert Burke's weblog — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:40:00 GMT

Generics CLS Compliant in Whidbey

Robert Burke's weblog — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 15:42:00 GMT

Generics will be CLS compliant in Whidbey

Joteke's Blog — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:45:00 GMT

Generics will be CLS compliant in Whidbey

Joteke's Blog — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:46:00 GMT

CLSCompliant should indicate which version

TrackBack — Wed, 22 Dec 2004 17:30:00 GMT

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Stuart Ballard — Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:53:00 GMT

I'm a little disappointed not to have gotten any response whatsoever to my questions. I don't always expect responses from blog comments, but when you *specifically* ask people to leave feedback and questions in the comments, it's a little rude to then ignore them.

I still love Microsoft bloggers in general, but if you're going to specifically suggest a particular form of feedback, you really ought to give some feedback *back*.

Generics in .NET 2.0 Make Providers Easier

Robert McLaws: Provider Model Edition — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:33:00 GMT

Generics now CLS compliant

Peter Golde — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 02:22:00 GMT

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

iidown — Sun, 26 Dec 2004 14:02:00 GMT

good article

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Romanfracne — Mon, 27 Dec 2004 18:08:00 GMT

Happy a new year

Thougt you could ignore generics in Whidbey? Think again!

Ken Brubaker — Wed, 29 Dec 2004 22:54:00 GMT

That generics will be a required part of the CLS as of the .NET 2.0 release is huge news for the developer, who now has to deal with them in public APIs whether you like to or not.

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Anson Horton — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 12:05:00 GMT

In Whidbey, J# shall provide the ability to consume any ".NET generic type" (whether it is part of the .NET Framework, or authored in other languages). Note that this includes the ability to consume generic classes, generic interfaces, constrained generic types, generic methods, instantiation at primitive types and value types and reference types. J# shall provide full access to all of the generic APIs in the .NET Framework. While most of the syntax will be similar, J# does not support wildcards. Code that is using such wildcards will need to be modified before compiling with J#. Also, the libraries that ship with J# will remain at their current level. Post-Whidbey, J# shall introduce support for authoring generics, and we shall certainly be keeping compat with Java 5.0 generics in mind. The documentation delivered with J# (accessible through MSDN too) illustrates the support for consuming generics. Also, refer http://www.microsoft.com/india/msdn/chat/transcripts/150.aspx for a brief decription of what is new in Visual J# 2005 by Pratap Lakshman.

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Lu — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:24:00 GMT

The only question is when vs 2005 will be released. 2005 is only in days.

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Stuart Ballard — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:50:00 GMT

I think it's been announced that VS2005 will be released at the PDC in September but I'm not 100% sure.

All the J# information I can find including the link Anson gave and every other link I followed from those pages still don't have any actual *syntax* for how J# supports Generics, enums and valuetypes. It's interesting to hear that they do, but surely the syntax is kind of important to reveal?

I don't really feel like installing the VJ# Express beta from months ago just to see if I can figure out what syntax is used, especially when (based on my experience with C# express) I'd still be reduced to pressing random characters and hoping Intellisense would give me some hints. It took me forever to figure out the use of the "where" keyword in C# because as far as I could tell there was no documentation on it *anywhere* in the Express product (and I was offline at the time).

OdeToCode Links For Dec 30

OdeToCode Link Blog — Thu, 30 Dec 2004 18:00:00 GMT

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Michael Blome — Thu, 06 Jan 2005 21:37:00 GMT

Stuart:
As a side note I'm curious why you weren't able to find the docs on "where" in C# Express. We did document it extensively in the local docs. Was it a problem with search or the index perhaps?

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Stuart Ballard — Fri, 07 Jan 2005 18:24:00 GMT

Well, the main problem was that I didn't know what I was looking for, so I didn't know to search for "where". It was a while ago, so I'm not too sure of the details any more, I just remember being very frustrated about it.

Perhaps I was looking at the wrong docs, but if I'd been in "real" VS I would have gone straight to the C# language reference (I have that bookmarked) and found the part that described the syntax of a type declaration. In Express, it all seemed to be very basic overviews of stuff without many examples or detail; if there was some detailed reference documentation in there, I never found it.

I can't remember if I tried the search - I may have been trying to find it through the table of contents. The index wouldn't have been helpful because I had no idea what keyword I was looking for (I was expecting something like Java's Foo<T extends Bar> syntax and getting annoyed that I kept getting red squigglies under my ":", but you can't exactly search the index for ":" - one of the few syntactic decisions which Java did better than C# at - and even if you could it wouldn't have been the right thing to search for anyway - and this sentence really is absurdly long).

re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Douglas McClean — Fri, 07 Jan 2005 23:46:00 GMT

So if generics are now CLS compliant, does that mean we can eliminate the System.Collections.ICollection interface (and all its brethren) in favor of System.Collections.Generic.ICollection<T> (and all its brethren), rename System.Collections.Generic to System.Collections, and generally move to only having one collection namespace? It seems to me that CLS compliance was the major reason not to do this. Incurring this breaking change now will mean much less hassle in the future for MS and everyone else, since frameworks won't have to implement both ICollection and ICollection<T> to be useful to all consumers, and generally useful APIs won't have to have overloads that take both ICollection and ICollection<T>. Incur the cost of switching now (which is basically typing "<object>" after all appearances of ICollection, IList, IEnumerable, ArrayList, etc. and can essentially be done by global search and replace in 95+% of cases) and we will avoid that whole set of issues.

The SLAR on System.CLSCompliantAttribute

Brad Abrams — Mon, 10 Jan 2005 04:59:00 GMT

The SLAR on System.CLSCompliantAttribute

Brad Abrams — Tue, 11 Jan 2005 18:58:00 GMT

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re: Extra! Extra! Generics CLS-compliant in Whidbey! [Peter Drayton]

Kamil Skalski — Thu, 20 Jan 2005 13:15:00 GMT

Requiring all .NET languages to have support for generics looks scary in context of
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/productfeedback/viewfeedback.aspx?feedbackid=d507aff5-b1e3-49b4-8178-065a00d2f15e

Actually there is no way to generate any complex generic
code using standard method of producing .NET binaries - System.Reflection.Emit. The only way is to use some external libraries / writing them by ourself for generating IL.

Generics and CLS compliance...

Eric Gunnerson's C# Compendium — Thu, 03 Mar 2005 20:04:00 GMT

Generics will be CLS Compliant in Whidbey

briandela — Thu, 01 Jun 2006 16:53:02 GMT

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