ASP.NET/Design

re: ASP.NET/Design

Keith J. Farmer — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:13:37 GMT

I'm currently working on a site at the moment. Guidance on how to blend master pages, web parts, and css-based positioning would be useful.

For what it's worth, I've had to resort to a table:

[table]
[tr][td colspan=2 (banner)][/tr]
[tr][td (menu) /] [td (content)/]
[/table]

I'm using web parts not for customizability, but for the nice frame and title bar they provide.

Also, the dimensions of the body and of the table are both 100%. It currently works with table-based layout, but it would be nice if all this were dealt with in a somewhat more modernized fashion.

Of course, it could be the case that css-based positioning is not appropriate for this.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Jeff Parker — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 20:19:18 GMT

Maybe some WEFT and SMIL as well.

I will have to think about this for a while. I am still getting over the initial shock of this post. This is like someone giving you a new car, a new house, a million dollars and asking you ok now what are you going to buy with the million. Well I just don't know.

You know I really am begining to think you guys are just out to please me ;-) I asked or suggested something like this on Dave Massy's weblog not to long ago.
http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2005/06/24/432278.aspx

And also when Mike Hall asked if Blogs - useful, or just more noise you need to deal with ? I also noted I think coding for fun was another suggestion of mine.
http://blogs.msdn.com/mikehall/archive/2005/07/04/435258.aspx#435794

Well I am happy I seem to be getting things I ask for on the blogs anyway.
<sits back and waits for the new car, new house and million dollars>

Oh one thing else that just hit me. Things that shouldn't be left out Accessibility, oh and Access Keys or the accesskey attribute seems so few people ever say anything about it a lot of people do not even know it is there.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Kirk Marple — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:00:14 GMT

as a developer who has to be a designer out of necessity, i'd love to see more templates, and walkthroughs of theming.

i might not want to use the templates as is, but more examples of the possibilities will accelerate my process in building new ones.

the master page templates based on CSS/DIV layouts would be greatly helpful to me right now!

also, tutorials on tying Ajax concepts to ASP.NET controls would be very helpful.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Travis Owens — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:22:50 GMT

Well my needs are biased but...

I have a possible upcoming need to start doing some AJAX in ASP.Net 2.0

HTML related tutorials aren't very important when VS generates the HTML for you and the designer allows for almost any type of cosmitc change you need. Ok I admit, as somebody who's been writing HTML for 10yrs, I often jump into the HTML code to customize things but I feel this is not the majority.

Why so many (5) table based templates? There have been many good tutorials that have proven that CSS can fully replace tables. Although I still have a hard time convincing myself to switch, the examples have proven that any layout can be accomplished with CSS layouts (despite what web developers thought originally of CSS layout). I will admit IE6's CSS layout quirks do complicate the issue and sometimes require using tricks to get things exactly as we want.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Dean Heckler — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:28:46 GMT

As a designer, working with my developers, I've been looking for an Design focused Dev Center for a while - and not only for ASP.NET. But as most of my designs are for ASP.NET, this new Dev Center could be a very good thing. What I'd like to see:
- In-depth case studies on exemplary Microsoft (and others) designs - Windows Marketplace comes to mind. Not just technical, I'd like to hear what the designer on the project has to say.
- Best practice information for how designers can work most efficiently with developers in an ASP.net environment.
- Design showcase. Articles related to innovative design elements, interface elements, etc.

I'm not sure what your overall goal is with this Dev Center, but for me, I'd like to see it become the place where a ASP.Net interface/interaction designer's interests meet the interests of the developer.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Ken Cox [MVP] — Fri, 15 Jul 2005 21:58:48 GMT

Hi Brian,

I could use a specification for a database-driven Web site. For example, say I was going to outsource development of an ASP.NET e-commerce site and needed to describe it fully for potential developers.

Not being an architect-type, it's hard to know where to start with this. A template or example document would be very useful.

Ken
MVP [ASP.NET]

re: ASP.NET/Design

bgold — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 01:52:26 GMT

Great feedback, glad we are doing some things right :) Keep it coming, it will definitely influence how these things develop.

I'm always looking for folks who have both design skills and ASP.NET 2.0 (especially themes/skins, master pages) to put together content on those areas -- if that is you, let me know!

Interestting Finds

Jason Haley — Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:27:39 GMT

re: ASP.NET/Design

Chad — Mon, 18 Jul 2005 23:29:14 GMT

I would like to see more info about how themes and skins are supposed to work with the entire site. I am still confused how they integrate into a given site design (but the feature looks cool in the Personal Website Starter Kit on the beta.asp.net site)

re: ASP.NET/Design

Bryan Peters — Tue, 19 Jul 2005 13:27:03 GMT

Very exciting stuff! I second Dean Heckler's points.

As a developer who loves clean CSS code, I've thrown myself (and my company) at 2.0, but am finding the code output of asp.net to have remnants of table-centric controls (Menu, FormView, etc.). I would love to know how to create a simple unordered list of the SiteMapDataSource instead of the table it puts out. It might not be possible, but little tricks like that would make CSS purists like me really happy.

re: ASP.NET/Design

Parag Kantharia — Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:59:10 GMT

Dear Sir,

May we all know, what is the outcome of your plans and decision taken by you so far. Since now we are just very close to get our hands on real world of asp.net 2.0

we are just 15 days far, and i hope you must be having something ready as a pleasing surprise for all of us.

thanks

parag kantharia

re: ASP.NET/Design

bgold — Thu, 20 Oct 2005 01:13:09 GMT

Parag --

I wish I had good news -- lots of stuff in development, slight production issues -- probably going to slip out into early next year -- but I'll post the content as I get it on MSDN... we have a bunch of MP templates and HTML templates with best practice guidanec ready to go at launch so I'll do everything I can to get something live -- even if it isn't the full designer portal I'm working on. trust that it is something that will happen, I'm just running into more 'infrastructure' issues then I expected.

Thanks for the note.

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