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Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

About a week ago now we released a new CTP build of VS/VSTS/TFS 2010 and .NET 4.0.  I haven't heard much feedback yet.  I'm curious what you think about it.  Have you had a chance to download it?  Play with it?  Go through the walk-throughs?  If you have, please let me know what you are thinking.

Brian

Published Thursday, November 06, 2008 7:37 AM by bharry

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# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Hey Brian, one of the first things I tried to do w/the image was mount it on one of our big windows 2008 servers here via Hyper-V. We gave the image 4 gigs, and fired it up, but for some reason we cannot get the virtual machine manager additions to install properly, and everytime we try to do something once logged in, the CPU of the VM pegs making it almost impossible to use as is.  I don't know if anyone else has tried this, or if you had any guidance, but the CTP would be much easier to evaluate for us in this environment vs. using Virutal PC.

Thanks,

Bob

Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:30 PM by Bobw

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I've finally gotten it downloaded (they should use something like the MSDN downloader) but am waiting on some more RAM before I fire it up.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:33 PM by Matt Newman

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I have been scared away from CTPs.  

If Microsoft would offer this as expiring VMs then I would love to try them out.  

But the danger of messing up a machine from installing one of these ctps is just to great.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:31 PM by Stephen

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

It is a VPC VM!

As for myself, I'm afraid I've already spammed C++, C# and BCL team blogs with too many questions regarding new stuff :)

BTW, quite a few VS2010 tickets at MS Connect, too.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 1:49 PM by int19h

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

WOW!  I fell dumb!

I did not even look to see if it was a VM!

I will make sure I look before I comment next time.  :)

Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:16 PM by Stephen

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Bobw, I'm asking around to see if anyone is familiar with the problem that you are seeing.

Brian

Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:17 PM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

The Architecture Explorer crashed VS in our project. Too sad, I really looked forward to test it after all the cool demos at the PDC.

Could be related to the fact that I can't compile the solution due to some not very helpful error message in our WF project. Something about checking the LoaderException for more info, I can look it up if you are interested.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 3:21 PM by perb

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

As a matter of fact, I'm thrilled! I'd have loved to use it in my new project which started this week. VSTS 2010 is exactly delivering what I've been missing in terms of Agile project management. As a workaround, I tried to use the CTP Architect Explorer to go through some existing code base, but it did not want to connect to our existing TFS server.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 4:21 PM by Dennis Doomen

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I launched it and imported one of our C++ solutions.  

I then tried to use a number of features that have been given prominent menu positions - and they were mainly dot-net only.

Code Metrics (still dot-net only), Historical Debugging...

Architecture Explorer crashed each time I bought it up - I submitted the crash reports.

Generate Sequence Diagram said "Value does not fall within the expected range".

I like the new selection style in the code-editor window and the Source Control History window is a big improvement.

Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:08 PM by Josh

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Yeah, there's some instability in the Architecture Explorer - particularly when the code doesn't compile.  We're working on fixing that but couldn't get it done for the CTP.

Brian

Thursday, November 06, 2008 6:05 PM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

@Bobw @Brian,

To get the image working under Hyper-V you need to enable the 'Detect HAL' option.

See my blog post for the full story:

http://blogs.msdn.com/granth/archive/2008/11/03/converting-vs2010-ctp-to-hyper-v.aspx

Grant

Friday, November 07, 2008 1:21 AM by grantholliday

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Hi, I have been playing with it a bit, I wonder why the workflow designer in team build i so different from the "regular" workflow designer - the workflow in tema build is great!

I really like what you have done to the Agile process template! Keep up the good work!

Friday, November 07, 2008 2:32 AM by Klaus Even Enevoldsen

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Could you please make so that the VPC-image is usable on a FAT32-drive by default? I use an external USB-drive with FAT32 and when I unzip the image I have to do that on a NTFS-drive, split the image in chunks < 4GB and move it back to the USB-drive.

Friday, November 07, 2008 3:16 AM by Kjell-Åke Andersson

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Klaus, the .NET 3.5 workflow designer did not work for our scenario - we tried.  However, it's being significantly improved for .NET 4.0 and our plan is to use that when it is ready.

I'm glad you like the Agile template updates.

Brian

Friday, November 07, 2008 6:44 AM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Kiell, I'm not sure I understand.  FAT32 only supports 4GB files and we can't make the image less than 4GB - it's just too much stuff.

Brian

Friday, November 07, 2008 7:51 AM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I am having issues when trying to import a namespace. When I type 'System.', the '.' does not register, and IntelliSense lists out 'Method 01, Method 02, Method 03...Method 99'. More frustrating is that I can not override this behavior.

I have the same problem if I try to enter code in a method- 'Console.' for example, does show me all of Console's members, it just shows 'Method 01, Method 02, Method 03...Method 99'

Friday, November 07, 2008 10:19 AM by Chad Thomas

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I downloaded it, unpacked it, and ran it for a few minutes.  I looked at some of the walkthroughs and didn't find anything very compelling to invest more time looking at.

I am doing mostly C# WinForms development, and I guess there isn't a lot that is changing/improving in that area.  So maybe VS2010 will not be a big-deal upgrade for devs like myself.

I am curious about some of the C# dynamic stuff, but since most of my COM work is behind me now, I don't think I'll be putting that to work either.

Friday, November 07, 2008 4:01 PM by tzagotta

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# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Besides some progress on concurrency, I don't see much use for 2010/4.0.

IMHO, the new features in the BCL are a joke, C# 4.0 is a step backward just to satisfy Office COM-Interop.

And what about a native 64-Bit Studio IDE?

Read Phil Taylor's blog:

http://www.futuregpu.org/2008/11/when-im-64.html

Saturday, November 08, 2008 8:42 PM by Thomas Scheidegger

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Chad, here's what I got back from the languages team...

Can you ask him if he’s using C# or VB?  It definitely sounds like a bug if it’s getting Method01…Method99 though.

In C#, when he types System.  it is by design that no completion list should appear at all (this is because it  may conflict with typing an alias).  If he is seeing any IntelliSense at all, there is a bug.

Brian

Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:48 PM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I generally like what I see after my (up to now) very limited testing of new C# and C++-related features. However, I miss support for the new SQL2008 hierarchyid type in both LINQ-to-SQL and the Entity Framework. Since it is a CLR type inside SQL as well, I had expected a seamless integration by .NET 4.0.

Next, the proportional fonts in the editor (for example the Intellisense drop-down) look fuzzy. Is that the dreaded SmearType(tm) effect from WPF rearing its head? The source itself (Courier and Consolas) looks good, though.

Monday, November 10, 2008 10:57 AM by David

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I couldn't get vmware 6.0 to convert the image.

The vhd is an annoying format as it's not a true image, it adds some proprietary headers before the actual image and then also to the end of the vhd file. Couldn't they just use the end of the time or leave the image alone and use separate file for metadata? If you want to open the hdd with another tool it has to process the entire file to remove those headers. Would be faster to just download the CTP without the VM and install it separately than to wait for this conversion process if you even manage to get it to run.

I suggest future vm images are a raw disk image, one that you can transfer 1:1 onto a real HDD and try to boot without a VM. Also eases up conversion as there is no conversion since vmware can open raw images.

Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:26 AM by Joku

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

I installed the image running with 4 CPU's under Hyper-V to test the new paralell extensions / libraries. T

he VPC image runs fine under Hyper-V but Visual studio crashes every time I create a new solution. That makes it a bit hard to get much done.

Saturday, November 15, 2008 9:37 AM by John

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

> Next, the proportional fonts in the editor (for example the Intellisense drop-down) look fuzzy. Is that the dreaded SmearType(tm) effect from WPF rearing its head?

Yeah, the editor is all-WPF, so this is its text rendering on small font sizes in action.

It's interesting that it doesn't seem to affect Consolas nearly as much as it does most other fonts, though.

Wednesday, November 19, 2008 4:09 PM by int19h

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

We know about the WPF font fuzziness issue and are working on it.  Hopefully we'll have a fix for the Beta.

Thanks,

Brian

Friday, November 21, 2008 4:39 PM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

> We know about the WPF font fuzziness issue and are working on it.  Hopefully we'll have a fix for the Beta.

Oh, wow - good news! I wonder about the nature of the fix, though: did you finally manage to kick the WPF team into fixing that issue on their end (preferrable, as it's not just VS10 that has those issues), or did you find some clever workaround for it (in which case sharing it would be very appreciated by all of us working on our own WPF apps!).

Crossing fingers and hoping that this gets closed as "Resolved (fixed"):

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=380919

Sunday, November 23, 2008 12:21 PM by int19h

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

It's just a very good idea to let us see what are you doing by using a VM.

I downloaded and wrote a big post about it (in pt-br):

http://www.marcosdellantonio.net/2008/11/21/primeiras-imagens-do-visual-studio-team-system-2010/

There is just one point that I didn't understand: why the MSF for Agile now is VSTS for Agile?

Thanks.

Sunday, November 23, 2008 4:32 PM by Marcos Dell Antonio

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

On thursday i followed a demo on VS2010 based on the CTP release.

Great stuff this Workflow engine in the team build.

Only one thing i found was missing, that is merging based on a workitem in stead of a changeset.

Greetings Danny

Saturday, November 29, 2008 3:21 PM by Danny

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Thanks for the feedback Danny.  Merge by work item is on our back log but may not make this release.

Brian

Monday, December 01, 2008 7:54 AM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Well, the fonts may be bad, but just try programming on a Mac! :) I do hope the WPF guys fix them, though, since it's a real shame. Vista font rendering rules!

Saturday, December 13, 2008 7:02 PM by Alt

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Any news on the fuzziness issue that plagues all of us trying to push WPF onto users who's first reaction is 'why is the text blurry'

I'm running out of excuses on this one and people are starting to look at Adobe AiR in our place because of it.

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:07 AM by Jonesy

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Yes, last I heard they were working on the fix.  It's not a small change because there are some pretty fundamental rendering changes to be made.  It won't make it in time for Beta 1 but I believe it will be fixed for Beta 2.

Brian

Tuesday, December 23, 2008 6:16 AM by bharry

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Any chance an extension to the evaluation copy is possible?  Just got this running finally and the evaluation period has expired

Monday, January 19, 2009 12:44 PM by eclpbarney

# re: Feedback on the VSTS 2010 CTP

Monday, January 19, 2009 1:01 PM by bharry

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