Number of Types in the .NET Framework

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Blue Onion Software - Onion Peels Blog - Number of Types in the .NET Framework — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:15:48 GMT

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Tienes idea de cuantos tipos tiene definidos el .Net Framework?

DotNetMania@GT — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:16:46 GMT

Estimados Amig@s , El día de hoy me he topado con un artículo muy interesante escrito por Brad

LDLS: .NET y mas [2008mar17]

SergioTarrillo's RichWeblog — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:25:57 GMT

ASP.NET, Web Evítate problemas: pon SIEMPRE un nombre de aplicación en Web.config . Una recomendación

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

shuggy — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:31:47 GMT

Sorry are these public only? (relevant to surface area for users rather than BCL developers.

I really should whip up a treegridview of this by names space...

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Mike — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 21:04:11 GMT

Who ever said more types == easier to program?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

dotGicu — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:29:07 GMT

Mike you are not required to use all that types, you chose ones that meets your requrements, perhaps I think it is better to have choise.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Anonymous — Mon, 17 Mar 2008 23:13:12 GMT

So when is .net framework 4.0 coming along?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Greg — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 01:36:53 GMT

The large number of types is why our code reviews focus on reducing the number of different .NET framework calls our applications use. More framework calls means larger likelihood of bugs in existing applications and when the framework is upgraded.

It would help us greatly for the MS compilers to emit a map file, a cross reference file, etc that we can process using simple scripting tools (e.g., Findstr) to find these type of problems. The VS class browser is nice but it is not something we can put into an automated build.

Reflection, for example, is scrutinized heavily since we've experienced it being used for a number of bad programming practices (e.g., A consultant not concerned with maintenance costs built a large data model and then recursing its object hierarchy to generate a report instead of just writing the report from the original database data. (Apparently, it was resume driven development or turn in and forget about your semester project))

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Frank Hileman — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 03:48:40 GMT

Each new library has a mandatory lifetime of 3-5 years? or is that just speculation? This might be one reason for the exponential appearance of the complexity curves above.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Mafaz — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:50:27 GMT

That's some good information. But as Mike says, I doubt if we have numerous classes there might be a learning curve. Anyways having too many things implemented eases life for lazy developers.. ;-)

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

sangram — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:51:39 GMT

thank Brad for information

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Ajit Singh Shekhawat — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:59:41 GMT

As per trend analysis

Assemblies y = 15.1x + 17.3 108

Namespace y = 51.6x + 51 361

Types y = 2249.3x + 626.9 14123

Members y = 21343x + 7951.3 136009

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Josh Coswell — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:10:56 GMT

I wonder if there would be a break point at which a bifurcation would accure and split the .NET framework into two or more than two branches.

I do not know what would they call it but this is my guess. As the monolithic systems become too big there is tendency of heirarchy etc etc.

(When heirarchies become too big they become monolithic and this cycle goes on and on)

(Just like C# classes)

Josh Coswell

http://riverasp.net

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Ganesh — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 08:11:28 GMT

Well I think we may see .NET 4.0 in 2 years time from now.

Types - 12,500 odd.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Jarod — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 09:15:45 GMT

@Josh

I believe they are already doing this. Red bits & Green bits. Not a split as you allude, but a core with extensions. From my understanding its pretty much 'someones going to die' before a red bit is changed now-a-days.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

kees van Sighem — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:38:09 GMT

Design is finished when there is nothing left to remove. It looks like there is a lot of work to be done ;-)

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

David — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 10:42:28 GMT

mmm, are MS planning to release some GOOD doc, instead of MSDN, which is totally unuseful ?

It would be appreciable...

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

amar — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:02:25 GMT

We would probably end up with multiple editions of framework like .NET Lite, .NET Mobile, .NET Server, .NET Regular etc. Or may be in other dimention, .NET Desktop, .NET Enterprise Server, .NET Web Server etc..

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Mai Omar — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:49:03 GMT

David .. The MSDN is realy great.. just read it. it's very useful.

but MS always have this mesg " The Program encountered a problem & need to close " :-(

Hope it would be fixed one day..

I Realy wonder how .NET 4.0 going to be ... it sure will help more & will be easier..

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Serware — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:15:11 GMT

More types==more .NET funcionalities==less work for programmers==more productivity==more end software funcionalities.

Thanks.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Chabster — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:28:29 GMT

Adding new functionality is good. But killing old functionality is even better. Who needs ArrayList anymore? Who needs File.ReadAllLines if it could be implemented by an extension method and put into separate assembly which i wont ever use.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Eric — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:37:09 GMT

Re: Chabster.

ArrayList and File.ReadAllLines is needed as soon as you open a old project that you've received a bugreport on. Marking them as deprecated so they throw a warning, sure, but you can NEVER remove anything. Doing so will kill all of us who work professionally in anyway.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Stu Smith — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:02:48 GMT

Was this a personal investigation, or part of a larger MS code review? If the latter, it would be interesting to hear about it. Come to think of it, I haven't heard any rumours about .NET 4 - care to give any hints? (Or are you guys only just starting to think about it now that .NET 3.5 has been released).

With regards code reviews, any comments on the increasing proportion of .NET surface area that isn't available to us (ie, internal)? My brief analysis:

http://www.feedghost.com/Blogs/BlogEntry.aspx?EntryId=17806

Hopefully I haven't come across as too negative - the .NET framework is a fantastic achievement - so thanks for making my coding life more pleasant!

Stu

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Chabster — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:03:54 GMT

Re: Eric

Compatibility is the main thing that slows any progress. If you need to open an old project you will definitely open it in an old version of Visual Studio and continue using an old version of .NET FW.

If thing are never removed every framework becomes a monster. AFAIK .NET 1.1 is not supported on Vista. How would you you explain your customer why he must install a 100 Mb library instead of 20 Mb for compatibility reasons?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Eric — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:05:22 GMT

Chabster...

.NET is built with each new version incrementing on the old one. The new one doesn't remove features that were there previously, although I THINK that replacing is done, even though they probably use extension methods for that instead(see the linq additions to the old classes). If it did, versioning would be hell. 1.1 is compatible with everything from nt 4.0 up to and including vista, see compability at http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=262D25E3-F589-4842-8157-034D1E7CF3A3&displaylang=en.

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Patrick Smacchia [MVP C#] — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:13:33 GMT

Brad Abrams just did a post on the Number of Types in the .NET Framework . Here are the results I obtained

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Kent — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:13:42 GMT

Is the source code for .NET 2.0 available yet? If so, where? MSDN is nice, but the only completely accurate documentation is the source code.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Patrick Smacchia — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:15:44 GMT

Have a glance here where I show what NDepend has to say in terms of metrics and dependencies when analyzing the entire .NET Fx3.5:

http://codebetter.com/blogs/patricksmacchia/archive/2008/03/18/number-of-types-in-the-net-framework.aspx

#assemblies: 119

#namespaces: 933 (here there are some duplication across assemblies, i.e the namespace System for example will be counted as 21 because it is defined in 21 assemblies)

#types: 39 509

#methods: 384 300

#fields: 240 070

#IL instructions: 8 562 828 (equivalent to around 1.7M lines of C# or VB.NET code)

SELECT METHODS WHERE NbILInstructions > 0: 341 842

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsClass: 29 345

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsStructure: 2 794

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsEnumeration: 4 506

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsDelegate: 1 312

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsInterface: 2 864

SELECT TYPES WHERE IsClass AND IsAbstract: 1 813

SELECT TYPES WHERE DeriveFrom "System.Exception": 633 (DeriveFrom means derives directly and indirectly)

SELECT TYPES WHERE DeriveFrom "System.Attribute": 728

SELECT FIELDS WHERE !IsStatic: 103 349

SELECT FIELDS WHERE IsStatic AND !IsEnumValue AND !IsLiteral AND !IsGeneratedByCompiler: 22 783

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Ollie Riches — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:08:22 GMT

People getting excited about C# 4.0 for me is like watching the famous Monty Python 'Four Yorkshiremen' sketch...

Are there really any business problem you can't solve with todays versions - I know it might look more elegant in 4.0 but come on....

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Phil Shaffer — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:08:41 GMT

Brian,

It would seem that no good dead goes un-appreciated. I and many others appreciate your taking the time to share your metrics with us.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Phil Shaffer — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:10:29 GMT

errr...that was meant to be "good deed".

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Earl Truss — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:41:13 GMT

"you are not required to use all that types, you chose ones that meets your requrements, perhaps I think it is better to have choise."

Of course, but to make an informed choice one must know about all the possible things to choose from.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Carter — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:18:48 GMT

I am guessing 13,511 in 4.0 (this is with human brain + guessing analysis I didn't break out moving average or trend lines etc.). Do I win a pot of gummi bears if I get close without going over?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

BehindTheScenes — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:13:12 GMT

if (dotnetcompiler)

{

using(JavaServer vmachine = new JavaServer())

{

vmachine.Impersonate(dotnet, "C#");

objMachCode = vmachine.Compile();

vmachine.Launch(objMachCode);

}

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

George Kapsambelis — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:34:39 GMT

@Phil: Who's Brian? :)

Brad, thanks for the metrics. I too see each successive release as making it easier to build an application that has much greater functionalitly with less written code from the developer. The only caveat there is that it requires even more study of the framework itself with each release in order to gain a good understanding of what you can accomplish with it.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

partha — Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:51:49 GMT

What are you planning for .net 4.0?

When will it be released?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Yoda — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:11:53 GMT

That is why you fail, Padawan.

Master Occam has much to teach you.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Some Guy — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:18:10 GMT

Can we say "bloat", boys and girls?

You clowns have no idea what you're doing. This is precisely the same rathole that Taligent went down. By trying to put everything you can imagine in the library code, you make it easier to just write your own widget than look for it in the multitude of .NOT classes.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Sambo — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 06:13:27 GMT

I hope .net 4.0 will be design for good performance.

The .NET Framework is a bit on the big side.

Espresso Fueled Agile Development — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:09:35 GMT

As anyone who has ever tried to find docs on MSDN already knows, the .NET Framework is big. Real big.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

You guys are just adorable... — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:51:44 GMT

You're right. The Java docs are so much better... Just look!

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/index.html

Oh, wait... was that sarcasm?

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:55:49 GMT

Un-be-smegging-lievable. Given that the .net framework is apparently being "designed" by people with absolutely no clue and no taste whatsoever, I'd say the number of types in version 4 will be well in excess of a bazillion. And all of them shite.

Being A Microsoft Developer - Getting Harder Every Year

James Newton-King — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:39:57 GMT

Intergenite Andrew Tokeley recently blogged about how a Microsoft developer has to know so much more

Number of Types in the .NET Framework (2)

Patrick Smacchia [MVP C#] — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:31:50 GMT

I am impressed by the buzz done around my last post on Number of Types in the .NET Framework . Actually

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

TerryLee — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:55:47 GMT

概述本期共有10篇推荐文章，由于忙着写Silverlight2系列，所以导读写的不多，都是三言两语带过，希望大家见谅。1.CreatingaCustomSkinforSilverlig...

Continued Story of Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Community Blogs — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:55:27 GMT

Recently Brad Abrams wrote a blog post about the number of types in the NET framework with some general

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

dnadvisor — Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:42:47 GMT

Interesting info. I never would have guessed that high but then I really didn't have a clue!

【收藏】推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

Jacky_Xu — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 04:48:02 GMT

概述

本期共有10篇推荐文章，由于忙着写Silverlight2系列，所以导读写的不多，都是三言两语带过，希望大家见谅。

1.CreatingaCustomSkinforSilverl...

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Anytao — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:49:49 GMT

Namespace, Types, and Assembly, are all the main component in Framework.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

A dummy — Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:07:51 GMT

More type =>> dummies can program =>> less $ for everybody.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

BradA — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:31:43 GMT

>>Shuggy: Sorry are these public only? (relevant to surface area for users rather than BCL developers.

Yes, these are public types and public\protected members

>>Mike: Who ever said more types == easier to program?

You have a good point… We absolutely look at the surface area of the a feature vs. the value it provides. We have rejected\refactored many designs that have come through review because they are simply more complex than is warranted for the feature they are providing. On the other hand, if you look at something like WPF, it adds a lots of new surface area, but then it also adds a lot of new value in terms of the way differentiated UX is created with .NET… Clearly we are not perfect across the framework on this, but we are totally with you that more types doesn’t alway

>>So when is .net framework 4.0 coming along?

We are working hard on future releases of .NET… I don’t have anything I can say right now, but stay tuned!

>>Frank Hileman: Each new library has a mandatory lifetime of 3-5 years? or is that just speculation? This might be one reason for the exponential appearance of the complexity curves above.

Boy, we are making a big mistake if new libraries only last 3-5 years.. I started designing frameworks working on the BCL… We are coming up on the 10th anniversary of the design of much of the BCL and it seems to be standing the test of time. But you right that the new growth of the framework is primarily based on adding new subsystems… for example ALL of the 2.0->3.0 growth was from adding WPF, WCF and WF functionality… all new subsystems that made is much easier for people to build new classes of applications.

>>Ajit Singh Shekhawat: As per trend analysis….

I love it! I will try to do a similar post as we get closer to future releases of the framework… and we can all look back and see if you were right!

>>Josh Coswell: I wonder if there would be a break point at which a bifurcation would accure and split the .NET framework into two or more than two branches.

Good through.. we are thinking hard about this right now.. on the one had I think .NET offers developers an excellent end-to-end continuum.. As a .NET developer your skills will take you from desktop, to web, to RIA to REST services nodes and back! Whatever we do, we must preserve that end-to-end value of .NET… that said, getting some SKUs that are more focused on particular scenarios could be a good idea.. in many ways, this is what Silvelright 2 is… a SKU of .NET For RIAs… Possibly we need more options… we are thinking about it.

>>Jarod: I believe they are already doing this. Red bits & Green bits. Not a split as you allude, but a core with extensions. From my understanding its pretty much 'someones going to die' before a red bit is changed now-a-days.

Yea, you know.. to be honest, my opinion on the whole Red bits green bits thing is evolving.. even the name “red bits” implies you can’t make any changes… I don’t think that makes sense.. I think we need to be able to innovate across the stack, but clearly we have to do that in a way that doesn’t break apps. I think you will see some examples of this in future servicing releases of the framework. I think of this as more like “Yellow bits” ;-)

That said, there will be another release of the .NET Framework that is fully side-by-side… this is important for a lot of reasons.. and I hope no one has to die to make it happen!

>>kees van Sighem: Design is finished when there is nothing left to remove. It

Good call! I actually totally believe you on this one… The team is actually very committed to using an economy of surface area to enable the great functionality customers are asking for. It might be fun to do a summary of all the work we do to reduce the types in the system and make them cleaner and easier to use for you…

>>Serware: More types==more .NET functionalities==less work for programmers==more productivity==more end software functionalities.

You know, that is exactly what we are aiming for… try to do a transacted web service or a work flow in .NET 2.0 before we added WCF and WF in .NET 3.0… try to do OR mapping in .NET 3.0 before we added LINQ…. Clearly we are adding a lot of great value to the framework in every release..

>>Chabster : Adding new functionality is good. But killing old functionality is even better.

Oh, this is a good meaty conversation… I am totally with you in spirit, but as a company we have an deep obligation to compatibility.. We owe it to our customers to keep their apps working!

>>Stu Smith: Was this a personal investigation, or part of a larger MS code review? If

This is part of a larger MS code review.. we do them all the time actually.. there is a formal process for getting new surface area into the framework that my team runs.. Boy, I wish I could tell you all the issues we have caught over the years! Clearly there is more work to be done, but we do have a process and it is staffed by the right people. I hear your point on wanting more of the framework to be exposed… If you look at efforts like ASP.NET MVC, that is exactly what we are doing… But we are doing it in a very thoughtful way… every public API cost us lots in support and documentation and testing costs.. we need to be wise.

>>Chabster : Compatibility is the main thing that slows any progress. If you need to open an old project you will definitely open it in an old version of Visual Studio and continue using an old version of .NET FW.

I hear you… But we also have customers that have really large applications… they may need to only touch part of the application to use say some cool new UI with WPF… do they have to re-write the data layer just to use WPF? NO! We have kept the framework compatible across versions for this reason.

>>Kent: Is the source code for .NET 2.0 available yet? If so, where? MSDN is nice, but the only completely accurate documentation is the source code.

Yes! Check out the details: http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2007/10/03/releasing-the-source-code-for-the-net-framework-libraries.aspx

>>Ollie Riches: Are there really any business problem you can't solve with todays versions - I know it might look more elegant in 4.0 but come on....

I am very glad you find .NET 3.5 so useful! I do as well… As we are thinking about .NET 4.0 we are thinking about the business problems of the future as well as today… Are you very sure your business problems will not change?

>>Phil Shaffer: It would seem that no good deed goes un-appreciated. I and many others appreciate your taking the time to share your metrics with us.

Thanks! I really appreciate that.. but I do love all the feedback! It is a good conversation.

>>George Kapsambelis: I too see each successive release as making it easier to build an application that has much greater functionalitly with less written code from the developer. The only caveat there is that it requires even more study of the framework itself with each release in order to gain a good understanding of what you can accomplish with it

It is a good point – we try to mitigate the learning curve as much as possible by following a common set of guidelines, patterns and basic types as we build out new subsystems of the .NET Framework… so for example if you know how to use File IO, moving to networking is no big deal…

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

mohojojo — Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:44:17 GMT

Két érdekes linket szeretnék megosztani. Mindekettő a Framewrok terjedelmességét hivatott bizonyítani

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

raisch — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:56:15 GMT

More design is usually not good design.

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

phil daniels — Sat, 22 Mar 2008 03:21:53 GMT

.Net is like a capitalist economy, if it doesn't grow then the media will deem it to be in trouble.

Shrinking economies are said to be in recession, IMO a shrinking software library would be a thing of beauty.

Regarding backward compatibility (eg ArrayList) - why not allow multiple versions of the same library to be incorporated into code - thus System.Collections.1 would contain ArrayList whilst System.Collections.2 would not.

Ditemi quali classi usate e vi dir

Technology Experience (Reborn) — Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:40:40 GMT

Ditemi quali classi usate e vi dir

Links of the Week

Chris Love's Official Blog - Professional ASP.NET — Sun, 30 Mar 2008 04:55:00 GMT

Thought I would bring this back again and see if it was popular or not this time around. So many things

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Iga lahendus tekitab uusi probleeme ehk alati võib leida veel ühe bugi. — Fri, 04 Apr 2008 01:20:35 GMT

Leidsin väga huvitava postituse Brad Abramsi blogist, kus on visuaalsed graafikud selle kohta, kuidas

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

topzengyi — Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:06:47 GMT

概述

本期共有10篇推荐文章，由于忙着写Silverlight2系列，所以导读写的不多，都是三言两语带过，希望大家见谅。

1.CreatingaCustomSkinforSilverl...

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Mayur — Tue, 06 May 2008 04:12:24 GMT

excellent :)

well i will not crib about how good or bad this is ... but must say the info is really interesting ... never thought about that though

re: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Roger Crawfis — Tue, 20 May 2008 17:53:16 GMT

Interesting Post. I immediately wanted to know the critical surface area component: # of interfaces. Smachia provides this with 2,864, but he also has a only 39,509 types. Not sure why the discrepency, but can someone provice the number of interfaces. I we tout programming to interfaces for 90% of the code then this would be the waypoints of some other metric to limit the overall surface area.

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

sunjie — Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:20:07 GMT

本期共有10篇推荐文章，由于忙着写Silverlight2系列，所以导读写的不多，都是三言两语带过，希望大家见谅。

1.CreatingaCustomSkinforSilverlight...

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

.NET Bits — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:54:17 GMT

There was a question today on how many types are there in the .NET framework and I remembered reading

Brad Abrams: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

DotNetShoutout — Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:47:22 GMT

Your Story is Submitted - Trackback from DotNetShoutout

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Blue Onion Software - Onion Peels Blog - Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Tienes idea de cuantos tipos tiene definidos el .Net Framework?

LDLS: .NET y mas [2008mar17]

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The .NET Framework is a bit on the big side.

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Being A Microsoft Developer - Getting Harder Every Year

Number of Types in the .NET Framework (2)

推荐系列：2008年第10期 总12期

Continued Story of Number of Types in the .NET Framework

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【收藏】推荐系列：2008年第10期 总12期

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Number of Types in the .NET Framework

推荐系列：2008年第10期 总12期

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推荐系列：2008年第10期 总12期

Number of Types in the .NET Framework

Brad Abrams: Number of Types in the .NET Framework

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

【收藏】推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期

推荐系列：2008年第10期总12期