Carrying around the weight of the past

re: Carrying around the weight of the past

Ziv Caspi — Fri, 25 Jun 2004 14:37:00 GMT

Let me be blunt -- if you don't, I don't think the larger projects who actually ship will switch over.

In my team (we build with build, a.k.a. NTBuild), as many people use Source Insight or Visual Slick Edit as there are Visual Studio .NET 2003 users. In a poll we've recently conducted, some VS.NET users reported writing code with VS.NET, but reading code with SI or Slick. The "all the C/C++/C# files at this directory structure belong to my project" model of these tools is a winner compared with VS.NET. The tagging ("browse info") that comes along with this model is the real killer.

VS.NET is behind when it comes to handling huge projects compared with either Slick or SI. Unless you provide a tagging system which is at least as good as theirs, without imposing on us switching to your build environment (*), you won't win our hearts.

(*) Yes, I do realize MSBuild is probably far better than NTBuild. But when you face porting a >1M LOC project to a different build model, you really need to be a lot better. A better IDE is not considered a good argument for changing to another build system, particularly when we already have reasonable IDEs deployed.

re: Carrying around the weight of the past

Cyrus Najmabadi — Fri, 25 Jun 2004 19:13:00 GMT

ZIv: Thanks for letting me know. It's crucial that we understand how developers are going to actually use our tools. If a significant number of them would benefit from this then.

I'm glad to find out that there are people out there that have systems like ours. It means this isn't something that solves just a problem for us and no one else. Now I just want to know how important this is to teams out there in the rest of the world.

BTW. Is there any way we could see the results of that survey?

Also, when you do open files outside of a project, what are you mainly doing?

Browsing, viewing definitions, reviewing, simple editing, full out editing?

What do you find unpleasant about this experience now?

THanks!

re: Carrying around the weight of the past

Peter Ibbotson — Sun, 27 Jun 2004 00:19:00 GMT

I hope to catch up with Alex Kipman at TechEd and run through some of my thoughts in this area. I just need to get my act together (in terms of documenting my project structure) before I meet him.

Doing a better job with C# files outside of a project

Cyrus' Blather — Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:49:00 GMT

Help me, help you!

Cyrus' Blather — Thu, 22 Jul 2004 07:58:00 GMT

re: Carrying around the weight of the past

Michael Teper — Tue, 27 Jul 2004 08:27:00 GMT

Personally, I'd rather you were dogfooding MSBuild.

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