F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

MichaelGG — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 08:56:33 GMT

Congratulations! The F# CTP is excellent, and having even more integration and so on sounds awesome.

1. I'd ask when "the first beta of Visual Studio 2010" is, but I know that's probably not answerable now.

2. Will F# use .NET 4.0 types, like Tuples? Will .NET 4.0 contain FastFunc or anything else from F#? Or will interop with C# stay pretty much the same as it is now?

3. What is a "presentational programming language"? Just 'cause C# uses = instead of <- to setup a form? ;). At any rate, I expected that. My comment there is that it'd be really handy if the "code behind" files, while generated in C#, get subclassed in F# or something like that. I.e., I'd prefer to write as little "glue" code as possible.

4. What can we "loyal users" do to help?

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Robin Debreuil — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:10:08 GMT

Will the F# Compiler Kernel ship with the shared source? Mostly I'm wondering about what acronym is used for it.

F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Frank Bakker — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:46:05 GMT

To be honest I don't really like to blog about stuff that is already 'out there' on the web. There are

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Kurt Schelfthout — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:57:34 GMT

This sounds great. I certainly support the decision _not_ to go for designer tools at this point.

Some questions:

1) Can we expect close integration with things like the concurrency and coordination runtime, parallelfx and the like? Not that these aren't great libraries by themselves, but F# has some unique (in the .NET space) language features to offer here that could make things even nicer, with little effort (I think).

2) It worries me that your list of tools does not include (unit) testing. As you may know, the testing support integrated in Visual Studio today (mstest) does not work with F# projects. Is this planned?

thanks, and keep up the good work! I've enjoyed many hours of programming F#, and hope to continue to do so.

Kurt

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Stephan — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:29:21 GMT

Congratulations, that's great news! Two years ago, who would have thought that VS 2010 will have F# support?

Concentrating on the algorithmic and data driven side of programming and leaving the presentational aspects to C# makes a lot of sense to me. There's a somewhat similar story with C++/CLI, which now focuses on the native-managed interfacing and leaves the rest to C# and (native) C++.

Now that .Net cross-language development becomes more and more important, is there maybe a chance that multifile assemblies and .netmodules get better support from the IDE?

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

petr — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:31:26 GMT

Hi Don. I have one question. What about plans to add new language features? Can we expect some interesting like structural subtyping, something new for metaprogramming, maybe macros?

Visual Sudio 2010 -> F#

Thoughts and Code — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:44:20 GMT

It's official... Η F# θα είναι μέρος του Visual Studio 2010, first class citizen με τις υπόλοιπες γλώσσες.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Tom Kirby-Green — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:23:48 GMT

Awesome news! :-) Viva la revolution.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

int19h — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:01:49 GMT

> Will F# use .NET 4.0 types, like Tuples?

I've already asked the BCL team about this, and here's what they've answered (http://blogs.msdn.com/bclteam/archive/2008/11/04/what-s-new-in-the-bcl-in-net-4-0-justin-van-patten.aspx#9045620):

"We are working with F# to make sure the Tuple is compatible. In fact, great deal of effort went into this already, more than what meets the eye here"

So I guess the answer is "yes"

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

int19h — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 17:13:44 GMT

Don, a question regarding designer tools. It is really the long-term strategy for F# to "not get involved", or is it just a result of prioritization of features for this release (i.e., you now have to have them done and polished within VS2010 timeframe or not at all, and there's no way you can do it by release, with other more important features yet to do)?

Don says: presentation-oriented designer tools that generate F# code are definitely feasible in the longer term.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Dimitris Foukas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:28:40 GMT

This is good news for the FP community out there!

I agree with Kurt that supporting the CCR (perhaps via the existing Erlang - style mailbox facility) would be a perfect display of the power of the FP paradigm. Scala is going that direction too with actors and lightweight events.

Any chances that the Silverlight 2 runtime will be natively supported by F#? Async workflows make perfect sense in that environment.

Also today the functionality of Workflow Foundation is exposed in a very imperative API. IMO it would be extremely helpful if the F# team could offer some functional "facade" to WF as an experimental feature.

Finally, can we expect that one day F# will be able to be compiled to Javascript the same way GWT does with Java? With VOLTA out of the picture now this is a viable option...

F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

DotNetKicks.com — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:46:24 GMT

You've been kicked (a good thing) - Trackback from DotNetKicks.com

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Dimitris Foukas — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:48:40 GMT

This is good news for the FP community out there!

Any chances that the Silverlight 2 runtime will be natively supported by F#? Async workflows make perfect sense in that environment.

Finally, can we expect that one day F# will be able to be compiled to Javascript the same way GWT does with Java? With VOLTA out of the picture now this is a viable option...

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Lars — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:05:07 GMT

"As a result, we have made an explicit decision to leverage the strengths of C# and Visual Basic as presentational and designer-rich programming languages in this release."

Sounds like an excuse tbh..

I think you make a mistake here, it is very important. C# code don't always match F# code very well. Im not saying you need to do the code generation the C# way, use the strengths of F# and make it better.

F# Included in Visual Studio 2010

Aaron Marten — Thu, 11 Dec 2008 21:12:05 GMT

Don Syme has just announced that F# will ship in the box with Visual Studio 2010 .

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

MikeGale — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 05:58:00 GMT

F# grabbed my attention and has held it for some time.

My past experience is great ideas often get ground into the dust and vanish. It seems that the decision makers are dunderheads, though the truth is that their focus doesn't match what I think is right.

I'm really pleased to see that we are not looking at dunderheads here. We see a really smart decision that will unlock so many minds that have been consigned to underperformance by the unnecessary plumbing nonsense of mainstream languages, and their low power. This is no small part due to Don's long term efforts. Very well done.

F# will have great legs and go a long way.

In coming years I'll be on the lookout for signs of restrictive decisions (maybe the appearance of dunderheadedness) in language decisions. When that happens it might just herald the emergence of what comes after.

I think F# will bring a lot of good minds into programming, minds that were repelled by the limitations.

It's a long time since I bothered to watch one let alone two long Internet presentations (I prefer concise, dense text). I watched most of both of these.

Viva F# A Luta Continua.

One step closer to F# for Business Intelligence

Aaron's Technology Musings — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 08:22:05 GMT

I have been beating this drum for some time now, but the latest post from Don Syme confirms the trend.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Yogesh — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:21:47 GMT

Can you please tell me where to find more information on F#?

F# vendrá incluido en Visual Studio 2010!

Blog del CIIN — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:04:55 GMT

Buenas, para aquellos que estáis siguiendo el nuevo lenguaje F# que va a ser soportado en la plataforma

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Krishna — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:30:46 GMT

Hey Great News,Thanks a lot....!!!

Again a language..!!!!!My God....

Kp — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 12:34:10 GMT

Great News...but how long should one keep on getting known to languages...When will they stop these inventions and work on improvements.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

I agree, enough! — Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:20:32 GMT

I agree, how about concentrating on one language and quit trying to create new cash cows. Pick a language and keep improving it. I don't have the time to learn a new language every 2 years!

Excellent News Don! Congrats to you all!

JHugard — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:23:57 GMT

I generally find F# to be THE MOST READABLE of the dozen or so languages I have used professionally, perhaps the most expressive, and certainly the most fun I've had in quite some time. Very much looking forward to even better integration, more features, and the chance to use F# for real production code.

@Kurt

I agree completely that full unit testing integration is imperative, especially given the role of Non-UI (e.g., library) code generation. I'm disappointed, though, that there won't be UI or Web designer support - this may limit how often I grab for F# when writing small GUI tools, though it will certainly remain my tool of choice for command-line tools.

@Dimitris

You wrote, "can we expect that one day F# will be able to be compiled to JavaScript the same way GWT does with Java?"

See the "FSharp.WebTools" project on CodePlex: http://www.codeplex.com/fswebtools. Should be exactly what you are looking for.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Joel — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:41:23 GMT

Excellent! I've been waiting for a long time. Hope it will be recognised much broader by industry in the coming future.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Kangmo Kim — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:18:09 GMT

Very... Cool!!

Congratualations!!

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Immo Landwerth — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 14:57:00 GMT

Will there also be an express edition such as "Visual F# 2010 Express Edition"?

Don says: Our current plan is not to have a separate express edition, but instead to continue to provide a version of the development tools that can either be used as a standalone command line compiler, or as an add-in, initially to Visual Studio 2008.

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Erik Cox — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:23:55 GMT

To be totally honest this is the 1st time I heard of #F...I mean I use all the languages that come with

2005 and that is it...so I would truly appreciate if anyone could tell me which of the previous VS languages will be most similar to the #F?!

F# To Ship with Visual Studio 2010

US ISV Developer Evangelism Team — Tue, 23 Dec 2008 23:33:24 GMT

Don Syme has announced that F# would ship as part of Visual Studio 2010 in his blog entry, F# to ship

官方消息：Visual Studio 2010将正式包含F#（转载）

Anders Cui — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 17:19:24 GMT

在2007年，微软就透露F#将在未来的某个时刻成为.NET平台的头等语言。现在，它终于宣布F#将被包含在Visual Studio 2010中。

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Quentin Cormier — Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:29:17 GMT

There is something weird in F# :

Try typing 2.5*2.5. The result is ; "val it: float = 6.25 "

So we can ask ourselves what the type of "let f a = a*a" is :

> let f a = a*a;;

val f : int -> int

Hum, that's weird, suddently the operator overload doesn't work anymore.

f 2.5;;

--^^^^

stdin(17,3): error FS0001: This expression has type

float but is here used with type

int.

How do you explain that ?

Blog Carnival #12

IHateSpaghetti {code} — Thu, 01 Jan 2009 17:40:54 GMT

Been a bit tide up the last couple of weeks but never the less I would like to start the new year with

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

art_scott@msn.com — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:23:30 GMT

Definite congratulations on core strength esp. implementing parallel and asynchronous components.

"... we expect F# applications which include components built with designers ... as mixed language applications. We'll be providing templates that guide F# developers through this process."

"I'd prefer to write as little "glue" code as possible."

Patience is the key to F# RIA component incorporation interface integration paradise future...

re: F# to ship as part of Visual Studio 2010

Scott Seely — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 22:07:23 GMT

When will F# assemblies support partial trust via AllowPartiallyTrustedCallersAttribute? I'd like to be able to standardize on one language for projects when possible, and APTCA would be needed for things like ASP.NET on Azure for the generated assemblies.

Don says: We plan to address this by the release of Visual Studio 2010. A couple of technical issues blocked us for a bit on this issue but we're making good progress now.

Уроки программирования на F#. Урок 0: Зачем нужен ещё один язык программирования?

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Announcing the F# User Group in Cambridge, MA – April 6

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Wondering why there’s a buzz around F# and functional programming, and want to know when and how they

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