The Windows 7 Taskbar

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

niyazpk — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 13:32:14 GMT

>> We like to describe our work as evolutionary, not revolutionary

I would like to call this revolutionary. I am using the new taskbar in my machine and I love it. It does help in doing my job better.

You guys are doing a great job. Keep it coming.

What we need is improvements of the same magnitude in all parts of the new OS.

Moving the Show Desktop button to the right was a right move. Thanks for that too.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

VaibhavGarg — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:45:16 GMT

What happens if you are running multiple instances of a tabbed browser, say IE8, with each instance hosting multiple tabs.

Sorry if you have addressed it before.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

adcworks — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:50:10 GMT

come on now, when can we get w7? is it 2009? come on, wink if it's 2009 :p

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

pdileepa — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 14:54:14 GMT

Great job with the changes to the taskbar and the Windows 7 UI in general (well, except the icon-less toolbars).

But it's bad that IE8's UI is not being revamped. The UI is just terrible, cluttered, confusing. Wish you guys had put as much thought into IE8's UI.

Show Desktop in Windows 7

ion — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:05:02 GMT

Will it be possible to click through the glass windows and drag items from the Desktop after the user clicked the "Show Desktop" button? Or is it only for taking a look on the Desktop?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Saad — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:24:36 GMT

Windows can have a "RAM cleaner" in Accessories.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

RotoSequence — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:29:15 GMT

The child tabs are really great for some programs, but not so great for others. It's appreciated that enable or disable the feature altogether, but it would be cool if we could control it on a per-application basis.

For instance, MSN is a program I prefer my windows to be separate for! :)

Multiple monitors and taskbar on the side

Aengeln — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:38:55 GMT

I gotta say it looks great, but I have two questions:

First, how will the taskbar and window switching appear if you have multiple monitors? Will the full-size window appear where it's supposed to be, or at the main monitor?

Secondly... Ever since I got a widescreen monitor, I've prefered placing my tasbar to the left. It's efficient for space reasons. However, there are annoyances. For example, colapsing several windows of the same type into one icon hardly efer works. I often find myself having half the space filled with MSN windowns and the second half with e-mail.

Will there be better support for us who don't prefer our taskbars at the bottom of the screen?

--A

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Saad — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:42:34 GMT

I am sympathetic of RotoSequence. also i prefer XP 's start menu.

if new WMP shows totality time of playlist's files is good. if is not opportune(maybe through performance's speed) it can have a option to enable this.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:44:43 GMT

Happy Birthday Windows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE NEW SUPERBAR!

CONGRATULATION TEAM!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

d_e — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:46:02 GMT

I like the new taskbar very much. You guys did a great job!

There are only three annoyances:

1. I'm one of the few persons that actually liked that maximized windows made the window border and the taskbar non-transparent. It's visually distracting for me.

2. I used to have a "My computer" shortcut. I could click it and a new window popped up which listed all my drives. I was unable to replicate this behaviour on Win 7. I'll wait for the first beta and the improved taskbar (compared to build 6801).

3. Windows Media Player's preview thumbnail doesn't show the song's name anymore.

But I can live with all those things easily! Even if I repeat myself: You did a great job.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Asesh — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:11:56 GMT

Yup I have already seen those snap shots of the new task bar and it's really great. I can't wait to get on my hands on it :P

I have a request for the Windows 7 team, please update that ugly basic theme too. I have not met a single person liking that basic theme though more prefer Aero over it like I do. But in the business, generally Aero will be turned off like in our office and we just find basic theme so unpleasant so we use classic theme...days of Windows 95 :P

And I have heard that you guys won't be updating that UAC in Windows Vista? Why? Vista UAC blocks the entire screen with it's dialog box, that's the most annoying part though I love UAC. So at least make some changes to Vista's UAC so that people won't find it annoying anymore by making it act as a child window of the process that asked for admin. privilege w/o BLOCKING THE ENTIRE SCREEN. Thanks

Superbar vs. Start Menu

odradek — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:06:15 GMT

the new superbar adds some redundancy to some of the start menu's functionality. that is, i use photoshop a lot, do i pin it to the start menu, the taskbar, or both? i'm going with the taskbar.

so now none of the programs i use are pinned to the start menu, which now wastes space with a list of 'frequently used' programs, even though frequently used programs would be pinned to the taskbar. it would be good to be able to set the "all programs" view as default, in this case.

also why can downloads not be displayed along with documents, pictures, videos etc on the start menu?

i think i'll wait for the first beta though, before i comment on anything else :)

love the work on it so far. microsoft is finally giving me some ammunition for the many superiority battles i have with blind apple devotees. being a designer, i often have to fight for windows.

Taskbar and title bar turning dark when maximized

SWB — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:39:01 GMT

> “We also changed the Vista behavior so that when a window is maximized, both the taskbar and the window’s title bar continue to remain open and translucent. We received lots of feedback on Vista that many people didn’t like these UIs turning opaque and dark.”

Please make this a user preference. I, for one, *do* like the taskbar and title bar turning dark when maximized. On my (black) ThinkPad and (black-bezeled) desktop monitors, the black taskbar and title bar visually recede into the bezel, focusing attention on the client area of the window. I believe this was actually the design intent of this feature, and it works great! If you turn this off by fefault, at least preserve it as an option.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:44:04 GMT

I really like the new taskbar and I can't wait to get my hands on with Windows 7. I am seeing some small niggles though, but even small niggles can be quite annoying if you are confronted with them a lot of times a day.

My list of worries:

Like some have said, is it possible to set grouping of windows on the taskbar on a more granular basis. As in enable taskbar button grouping except for *your list of programs* (internet browsers and msn chat windows for example).

*more to come*

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:44:40 GMT

What will happen if a certain program has only one window open and you want to switch to this window, do you first have to click on its respective taskbar button and then on its thumbnail to open it? Or will such a program open on first click? In this case I'd prefer the latter option, as that will save me a few clicks.

Now that it's possible to have thumbnails can have their own toolbars, will there still be a separate toolbar for WMP (similar to what there is now)? Or will we all have to use the thumbnail toolbar? I'd prefer to keep my separate toolbar there as it does offer additional functionality and is there in a single click.

*more to come*

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:52:01 GMT

A slight flaw, from my perspective at least, is the way the thumbnails show up as seen on Figure 3. On the figure there is no sign on the taskbar that shows you that you have the thumbnail list of Internet Explorer open. In this case it's obvious from the looks of the windows previews, but I'd like to be able to see it right from the taskbar itself. One way to do it is to extent the "Color Hot-Track" functionality into this.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:56:55 GMT

(Why is it so hard to post something?)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

spivonious — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:09:45 GMT

What would be really neat is if we could "pin" certain thumbnails. I'm often waiting for something to complete installing, or want to watch a video while working on something else full-screen.

It would be great if I could have a window maximized but also have a thumbnail of another window visible at all times.

Also, I haven't seen this addressed anywhere - are the thumbnails resizeable? A big complaint I've heard about Vista's thumbnails is that they are too small.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Tihiy — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:15:48 GMT

The new taskbar is great! So far i'm preferring small icon view and caption, but that's because 6801 taskbar UX is not complete.

Questions:

- Are taskbar deskband interfaces gone (they never were useful anyway)? Is there new interfaces?

- Is pre-XP start menu gone? (it's long time obsolete, yet there are people stuck with it)

- Is there any new 'toast' UI functions for notification area?

Suggestions:

- Fix the maximized windows glass please. It hope Aero will receive a revamp (and major design work), it's hard to read windows captions now.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

gkeramidas — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:16:10 GMT

speaking of "pinning", did you fix the vista bug that doesn't allow you to drag an item to the taskbar, when the taskbar is hidden, unless you drag it over the start button? a user should be able to drag it anywhere the taskbar is present and have the taskbar unhide, so an item can be placed on it.

worked in every os before vista.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:23:23 GMT

I'm trying to post more, but it just wont work. Could someone explain me why that is the case? Are you only allowed to post a certain amount of messages per blog post? Are my comments to long? It's a pain in the behind as I have been trying to post my full comment for over an hour and I only posted half of it so far.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 18:37:05 GMT

Damn it, this is very frustrating. Why am I not allowed to continue my post.....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

kuvik — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:39:19 GMT

One suggestion:

Can you add "Always on top" feature to every Jump List? I think it would be useful, because lot of programs don't have this feature -- for example my dictionary program, and I can't have it on top of MS Word.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

soum — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 19:52:17 GMT

How does the taskbar behave when it is configured to show text as well as icons? What text does it show? Name of the application all times? Or name of the application when no instances are running, and the title text of the active/most recently active instance when one or more instances are running?

Because if it is not the latter, we lose the ability to view information presented through the title text, at a glance (such as keeping a website open to check the score of a current match while working on something else).

Speaking of text (application name/labels) on application icons, it would be good if text could be turned on selectively rather than globally.

Also, another window management technique could be a good idea: Allow a window thumbnail to be dragged onto the sidebar area (the area on the side of the screen where gadgets get "magnetically" stuck); the thumbnail should stay there. That would be useful when "peripheral windows" (windows I am not currently working on but want to keep in my field of peripheral vision) are needed: such as playing a video while still working on something else.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

marcinw — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 20:17:54 GMT

Hi,

I haven't work with new taskbar and that's why I have question:

1. will be "old" taskbar still available ?

2. will you allow to move "new" taskbar to right or left side ? I ask for it, because in widescreens it's more natural place.

3. what about giving application name in tooltips ? in all pictures it isn't clearly visible, if icon "X" is for IE or Word (when we will run applications with the same icons).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

gss4w — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:15:36 GMT

I agree with the comment from SWB about keeping an option for for glass in a window to turn dark and opaque when maximized. You may have received comments from many people who dislike the feature; however, many people probably like the feature but feel no need to comment about it. For example if 30% of users in your testing customized their glass color that means 70% kept the default setting. The 30% who care about the glass color might not like it changing when they maximize a window, but some portion of the 70% probably like the default behavior and have not bothered to comment on it.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Justin Carter — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:20:38 GMT

Some things that would be really cool...

- Allow us to turn on taskbar text per application via the context menu - sometimes text is necessary to monitor the status of an app, where icon overlays like progress bars or numbers wont do!

- Allow us to pin individual thumbnails to the desktop or drag them out into their own (pinned aka always-on-top, resizable) preview window. This would be super sweet.

- Allow us to launch an application form the taskbar even when an instance is already running. On OS X it frustrates me in some applications to have to switch to it, then use File -> New Window. How about double click on an icon will launch a new instance if one is already running?

- Allow us to manage icon grouping. I *like* being able to switch directly to a second or third instance of an application by having it's own item in the taskbar, which is why in XP and Vista I always turn off grouping - it's useless to me. With previews the grouping is a bit better, but sometimes a single app can be used in multiple instances where the *purpose* for each window is *different and unrelated*. Let us treat task switching that way too! Let me turn off grouping per app, or let me drag a preview onto the taskbar to give it it's own icon. You could make them visually different if need be (again, text comes in handy, though you could color them or put some other visual mark on it, etc).

- Lastly... increase the size of the Orb, it looks dorky and "unspecial", it should look different to the other icons :)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

WindowsFanboy — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:38:51 GMT

Just a couple of comments:

1. As several people have already noted, you should be able to pin window previews (or at least the WMP preview) to be always-on-top. This can currently be done with the WMP 11 taskband and is super handy for watching something while you work in another window.

2. There should be two rows of icons in the notification area. This will allow more space for window icons (the "up arrow", however, can stay in the middle to differentiate itself).

Thanks!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

RedSign — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 21:57:55 GMT

@ Justin Carter

AFAIK there is the option to run another instance of a already running program through clicking with the middle mouse button (scrolling wheel) on the icon on the superbar.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Nitz Walsh — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 22:19:21 GMT

I generally am excited about the changes, but one thing I'd really like to see:

Make it scalable! I realize that will invariably bring up even more comparisons with the OSX Dock, but they're here already - let's not repeat Flip3D please. :)

With high DPI displays continuing to proliferate there shouldn't be any reason why there's fixed icon sizes on the taskbar, especially when almost everything else in the Explorer can scale.

That scalability should also extend to the thumbnails - a nice slider in the control panel to control the size of the thumbnail previews would be great.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Braden99 — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:06:50 GMT

" “We also changed the Vista behavior so that when a window is maximized, both the taskbar and the window’s title bar continue to remain open and translucent. We received lots of feedback on Vista that many people didn’t like these UIs turning opaque and dark.”

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Braden99 — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:21:12 GMT

Definately agree. It is somewhat strange the first time you use Vista, when it switches between transparency and opaque windows. But after using Vista for some time you realise it is a great feature. Most of my serious work is done in full screen mode dedicated to one application. You dont want to see a transparent window in these cases, it's distracting, and unnecessary. The washes of colour that show through from the desktop make the window look muddy.

Oh and now that icons can have coloured glows on them, or under them. Can we have colour marking of files and folders. This would be a very nice feature, that can be used to focus your attention during a project, or point something out when someone is looking through a network. Surely colour marking folders and files hasn't been patented by apple

scaleable taskbar would be awesome, not snapping, just gradually bigger, all icons scale at same time, and reposition themselves.(not really a must have feature, but very nice)

Manually drag windows into an icon stack. Maybe windows doesn't know two windows are related, and should be grouped together under one icon. Let the user artifically overide groupings. So custom icon stacks..Then click "Consolidate Windows", then windows snap back to original style. Similar feature is in Adobe CS4

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Justin Carter — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:26:25 GMT

@RedSign: That's good to know :) But perhaps it could be configurable: middle click, or double click (the default). I think making it middle-click only would be a big mistake, particularly for usability on a notebook!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

vinhluu — Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:59:49 GMT

I'm really excited and appreciative of the great work being done here.

"Overlay Icons and Progress Bars" is really cool and creative. Perhaps this concept can be extended via application hooks to show number of unread messages for Outlook, Messenger or RSS readers. And for power-users, perhaps it could be used to display resource consumption per applications.

But maybe these ideas will only abuse and misuse a good feature.

vinh.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Unknown2 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:20:12 GMT

The change to the system tray will be appreciated from my end (I currently have 14 icons taking space).

The idea of Aero peek is interesting. This sounds very useful, however I think that I am going to reserve opinions on it until I can actually play around with it. The implementation does have a couple of possible pitfalls that might negate its usefulness.

Jump lists sound really good, though as someone who is regularly swapping between new and old files I am not sure how much benefit this will give me most of the time. One option that might be a possibility (and would be extremely helpful to me) would be a search function (similar to the one in the start menu) in these lists. They simply search all known files that belong to that particular program in the quick launch bar.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

bpaddock — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:04:31 GMT

For launching a new instance from a running application's icon, you have several options, including clicking the application entry that shows up in the Jump List.

Alternatively, you can middle-click or shift+click the icon itself.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

bluefisch200 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:21:28 GMT

Wy dont remove the Startmenue? Just ad a search menue and a Application Folder to start and add Apps to the Superbar? I think with the Startmenue is not a good way to start apps if you have the superbar...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

bluefisch200 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:21:36 GMT

Wy dont remove the Startmenue? Just ad a search menue and a Application Folder to start and add Apps to the Superbar? I think the Startmenue is not a good way to start apps if you have the superbar...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Jembe — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:29:09 GMT

I have to agree with d_e, SWB, Braden99 and gss4w (and Tihey somewhat):

PLEASE make the window border turn SOLID when the window is maximized. I just LOVE that in Vista. The original design concept is very valid, less distraction away from the content. I really like the solid black (graphite).

Also please make show desktop really show desktop ( I don't like the borders of windows that still show up ).

So far GREAT work on the taskbar.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Jembe — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:31:18 GMT

I would like to add that the start menu now is partly obsolete.

Frequently accessed programs (these are now on the taskbar). Make the taskbar more like a search surface or a 'jumplist' to browse all programs. It's also obsolete to pin programs to the start menu (can now pin to the taskbar).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Jembe — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:33:16 GMT

Tihiy: deskband are now integrated with the small preview window (see figure 6 of this post).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

kozlow — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 02:37:40 GMT

0. Great work guys :)

1. “We also changed the Vista behavior so that when a window is maximized..."

+1 Keep dark and opaque feature.

What should be fixed, is the color inconsistency between maximized windows' slightly colorized title bar and pure gray/black taskbar. My preference: make everything pure gray/black.

2. Fig 3, thumbnails group

In figure 3 example, how do I know which application has opened the thumbnails group?

3. UI visuals

- JumpList's glass borders must be visualy redesigned. A jumplist belongs to menu paradigm. It's not a window.

- Maybe make some adjustements in transparencies for Aero peek. Full glass windows borders could be less visible (alpha 70%?). And why not keep 5%? of clients aera content visible... Just an idea. Maybe just my taste...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

GRiNSER — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 05:55:45 GMT

some things:

1. I like that the taskbar and the header of the maximized window go black because the eyes focus on the content and aren't distracted by the surroundings. PLEASE give us the option to turn it black in maximized state too!

2. Is it possible to put folders as a deskband in the taskbar like in all versions since Win 95? I use it a lot with my project folders to quickly access files with these deskband menus. It would be bad if the new superbar did not include this because OS X just recently added stacks, lacking such functionality before...

3. The Media Player controls in the superbar lack important features such as the progress control and volume control...

@kozlow JumpList Glass borders are okay in my opinion - even those IntelliSense lists in Visual Studio 2008 on Vista look like these.

Instead they should finally change the ugly menu styles to glass or something (see www.aerotaskforce.com for this kind of wishes)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

locolorenzo — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 07:23:39 GMT

I love using this interface...great work!

I am looking forward to the Beta...but when will it be announced??????????????

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Sirus20x6 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:27:39 GMT

why are toolbars that aren't part of the task bar disabled? I usually use a second toolbar on the right side of my screen for commonly used programs. on xp i just add a toolbar and drag it onto my desktop, and then from there drag it to the right edge of the screen. On windows 7 i can't drag that toolbar on the desktop or to a screen edge. it stays in the taskbar. major step backwards.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

githoc — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 09:34:04 GMT

Hi, will it be possible to move the location of the notification area to any position of my choosing. The reason being is that since I have been using wide screen monitors I find myself consciously having to look at the notification area where as before a new notification would catch my eye more easily as it is still in my field of view. What would be nice is that when I am expecting an important email for example I could slide the notification area to the middle of the task bar and when I don't want to be distracted just move it all the way to the right again

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

murtaza110 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 10:29:47 GMT

While I like the idea of unifying the program launching and switching tasks into a single one, I think it is important to be able to know easily which programs are already loaded into memory. I am of the opinion that I shouldn’t have to hover the mouse pointer over a program’s icon to know if it has already been launched. So there should be some visual cue to let the user distinguish “program launchers” from the “window switchers” just by looking at their icons. If for example, I need to close some programs to free up some memory I won’t need to hover on every icon to see if the program is running and can be closed. I think this is also why the Mac OS X dock shows a reflection under the icons for programs that are running to distinguish them from other icons.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Sirus20x6 — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 11:24:23 GMT

why is it that as windows versions move forward I am less and less able to successfully rename files and folders from explorer? I'm finding that they are always in use and I have to close all explorer windows and open up cmd just to be able to successfully rename a folder with videos in it.

Also going along with the post from murtaza above me, will there be a way to organize the icons for launching programs and already opened programs on the task bar? what I mean is i have several things pinned to the task bar, but I would like to have all programs that aren't actually running moved to the left, but all open programs that are pinned move to the center between the old style quick launch and the task bar icons on the far right. like if i pin winamp to the task bar and it isn't open i would like it to be the right most icon that isn't an open program (because winamp starts with a W and is the lowest alphabetical item, i dont expect windows to know this i would move it to the right on my own), after clicking on it to open it, the icon should move into the center as an open program. get what i mean? as things are now i have programs that are pinned and not open in the center separating my open task bar pinned programs which i would like to appear in the center.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

lyesmith — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:17:07 GMT

The new taskbar is cool. I like it. One general thing though.

Borders, headers are annoyingly wide. In general every window but around taskbar thumbnails it is horrendous 14 px border??? Come On!. Bulk one could say. Grandma-ish. You have to make it a bit nicer, sharper, customizable. You were talk about disk-space as important resource. There is a much more precious resource, the desktop space. When you design anything that appears in the desktop. The first question should be "How much space will it take and why"

I hate to pointing out third party softwares but have a look at Mac(Dont like it but doesn't have border around windows which is nice) and have a look at Chrome. Such a nice idea to put the tabs on the header. Too bad it does not work on windowed mode. And to use the address bar as search field brilliant , much cleaner than anything else.

Anyway every pixel should be the subject of consideration on the desktop.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

manicmarc — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:30:11 GMT

In Vista,the taskbar thumbnails are not live if the window has been minimised. This is because minimised windows do not keep repainting, to save resources.

How will Windows 7 overcome this? Will we be able to "peak" inside minimised windows and get the most current content?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

strejf — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:40:12 GMT

Hi Steven, thanks for a great blog! Now to my question; How do you decide what is a good default delay in the user interface? My personal thoughts is that Windows has to long delays for displaying some parts of the UI. For example in Windows 7, when hovering over an icon in the taskbar it does not display the thumbnail until after about 50ms. Powerusers like to reduce these values using programs like TweakUI. This makes a huge difference to the Windows-experience! I've had collegues use my computer and comment on how snappy it feels compared to their own "non-modified" computer. Is this something you are considering to change or are there important reasons to why you have these artificial delays?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

manicmarc — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:56:45 GMT

strejf: If it's like other delays within Windows then I expect it will be based on the your double-click speed setting. (Apparently) This is a good indicator of how quick you are :)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:40:51 GMT

@strejf

you have a video (youtube)for the function that you have explained?

THX

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

gkeramidas — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 19:43:09 GMT

the more i look at this, it's just plain ugly.

http://blogs.msdn.com/blogfiles/e7/WindowsLiveWriter/HappyAnniversaryWindowsontheEvolutionoft_1365F/clip_image004_2.jpg

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Gash — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:14:07 GMT

Given that my screen is wider than it is taller (1680x1050 laptop, 1920x12xx docked) I tend to keep the taskbar off to the side of my screen. I hope that this is not going away.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Fritzly — Sat, 22 Nov 2008 23:31:52 GMT

You stated that you like to describe your work as evolutionary more than revolutionary but I wonder if this is a choice or a necessity.

Whenever I see some OSes prototypes, like the CIW demos, etc. one thing they all have in common is... the lack of windows, apps are blended in the background, not contained by bold borders.

personally I like the idea of Windows without windows and I wonder what is the reason for this giant gap between what comes out of your R&D and what reach down to the final users.

TIA

Fritzly

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Saad — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:32:38 GMT

Microsoft should change IE developer team 's persons! yet IE(8b2) is unserviceable. why it strains for open a new tab ?!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

faramond — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:46:38 GMT

This is all great for mouse users, but what's in it for keyboard users? I love the type to search feature and the Windows+number key shortcuts in Vista. More such changes would be very welcome! (Now if only there were a way to combine the type to search with the simple and uncluttered Windows 95 start menu.)

I'm glad to see that grouping windows can be disabled. Those of us who work with a lot of windows at once often turn it off--in favor of per-application MDI. (It helps keep the ALT+TAB list short and wieldy!)

I am, however, somewhat disappointed by the textlessness of the new taskbar. How are people with screen readers supposed to use it? Also, you do realize that the screenshots you show are a terrible example of intuitive design: the taskbar is so see-through that it appears to be one and the same with the desktop. Only a few faint lines distinguish it from the latter. (This is a bad idea because it suggests that the two are one and the same and work the same way--which they most averredly do not!)

There is something to be said for Windows 95's stark visual separation of chrome from content (indicated not only by color--gray vs white, but by lines and 3-D relief.)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

dredgy — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 15:30:55 GMT

Well it looks good.

I'm not a fan of the transparency, and definitely not a fan of removing text, but the icons look good. The hot-tracking is the kinda feature I like - something I will probably get used to and become the thing that makes Windows just that little bit more usable.

I've never liked window grouping in XP or Vista (it's the first feture I turn off) but this looks usable. I wou;d still disable it if it required an extra click, but if it was activated on mouse over, it would be very, very nice.

Cheers

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

snaven — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 16:44:44 GMT

I am a kinda sceptic to this. I would like to try it my self and then see what I think. I don`t window grouping. I like to have them all seperated. I like that better. I use Alt + Tab a lot, so I hope you will have a good integration in this new task bar.

The Start Key

snaven — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 17:11:51 GMT

I read about Logitech G15 a while ago. I had a nice fuction. Disable the "Start Key". I Windows 7 I think that you should have a "Game Mode". So when you are playing a game. The "Start Key" will be disabled and all notifacation too. Like "You have to restart your PC for the updates to take effect". That is just so annoying! Gamers hate it! The antivirus program BitDefender enters game mode when you play a game, and then it wont disturb you. Nice function. By doing this gamers will choose Windows 7 with no doubt :)

Good luck!!!!!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Mike2008 — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 18:46:54 GMT

I am really excited that the Windows taskbar is getting some usability love! I do however have a couple of questions that I don't believe have been answered yet:

1) What happens to applications that aren't explicitly dragged onto the taskbar? Is there any way of seeing that they are open, other than doing an Alt- or Windows-Tab? If not, this seems like a real downside compared to the current Windows taskbar.

2) What happens when I have, say, 30 or more tabs open in IE? What does it look like then?

3) Are the IE tab switchers able to be reordered as the tabs are in IE itself? For that matter, are the switchers reorderable for other apps, for instance for multiple Word windows? This seems to me to be an absolute requirement to facilitate user customization/efficiency. In fact, reordering is the main feature that in my opinion is really lacking from the current Windows taskbar.

4) Can the IE tab-switching be turned off so that only "real window" switchers are shown? I personally tend to use a few browser windows at once, with each containing many tabs pertaining to a specific goal. I could see myself getting annoyed at having to wade through millions of tabs when I really just want to switch windows.

5) Will the start menu being seeing a revision? I ask because the new design direction seems to be very icon-centric, and one thing I *really* miss in the Vista start menu compared to XP are the icons next to shortcuts on the right-hand side (Documents, Pictures, Computer etc). Without the icons, these "shortcuts" are no longer very "short", since I have to scan a bunch of lines of undistinguished text to find what I want. Please bring the icons back!

You guys should be proud of the innovations you are bringing to the Windows desktop. As a bit of a design-head myself, I am definitely looking forward to the next Windows release! :)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

mystere — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 20:10:21 GMT

While I know this isn't explicitly a general UI experience post, it does touch on various WDM features.

I would like to comment on WDM in general. It would *REALLY* be nice if the WDM API were extended to allow more third party tools to utilize it. For example, it would be great to create functionality similar to Linux's Compiz/Beryl (spinning cubes and other kinds of desktops, plus configurable effects). You don't need to add this functionality yourself, just expose more of the API to do it.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

someone — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 21:23:14 GMT

Steven/Chaitanya,

1. Can you put a New Shortcut wizard on Taskbar right-click?

2. What will happen to context menu items now when right clicking program buttons that aren't launched yet. While I merely see I Open, Run as Admin and Properties in the pre-beta, I DO NOT WANT TO LOSE Open file location, Run as different user, Rename, Delete and other context menu items that I use, though infrequently.

3. JumpLists and the privacy concerning features should be disable-able per-app.

In general, I would like MS to review all the changes to make sure there aren't any features removed or functionality lost in Windows 7 failing which I (and some other people) will not upgrade.

Missing the Restore/Move/etc. menu? Also some MRU/jump list concerns...

bluvg — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:43:12 GMT

Thank you for the effort, thoughtfulness, and courage it takes to introduce worthwhile changes to the venerable Windows taskbar.

3 comments/concerns (and apologies if these were already addressed or mentioned):

1) What happened to the option when you right-click on a taskbar button to pull up the Restore/Move/Size/Minimize/Maximize/Close menu? One situation we often encounter with dual-monitor setups when connecting via remote desktop is that certain windows and dialogs appear off-screen, and this menu is necessary to bring them back on-screen (particularly if the non-intuitive "Alt + Space Bar" command isn't known). It would be better if Windows just knew to reorient open windows to active desktop space (and likewise with dialogs that remember off-screen coordinates when they pop up next), but if that isn't possible, that menu is still necessary.

2) Some document management systems supplant the standard file/open file/save dialogs in Office, but still use local disk for checking out a file for editing. This creates a misleading and problematic MRU/MFU entry. It would be great if developers could hook into this function easily so that the MRU/MFU entries refer to the appropriate document management entries.

3) Please continue to provide the MRU/MFU management options available in Group Policy under the application, on a per-application basis. I would imagine this might get a little bit complicated, since some applications have built-in MRU/MFU functionality as well; hopefully no one would want separate MRU/MFU settings for the application vs. the jump list settings. It might also be nice to have a global MRU/MFU disable option through the Windows Group Policy settings.

Thanks again for the great work!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Mantvydas — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:27:17 GMT

I wonder how does one tell if the application is launched or not, if all the icons on the superbar are gonna be the same...

If all gonna be minimized into icons, then how does one tell, which one is running, and taking up system resources?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

BOLL — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:47:26 GMT

I also use my taskbar vertically. What I like about this is that I can see much of the titles of the applications without them scaling down when opening more windows, it can fit a whole lot of them too, and I really do want to see that all the time. I do not want to open up menus for collapsed groups of windows or mousing buttons to see what they represent, I find that extra step annoying.

I will definitely not use a no-text only-icon mode, I will, as I've done for the last seven years, use a vertical taskbar with applications grouped by type but non-collapsed.

Thumnail visibility

Nerk — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 16:40:23 GMT

A problem I've found with these window thumbnails is that as the article points out it might be difficult to identify the right window. The icon and caption are steps in the right direction, but you could also experiment with showing a smaller part of the window.

One application I use does just that, and picks up a rectangle which covers 36% of the original area (60% in both directions, that is 0,0-0.6,0.6). It's like "zooming" into the thumbnail and makes it much more useful.

For web pages this ends up magnifying the logo/header and article title. For documents it can make the text almost readable. I never miss the clipped area (plus you have Aero Peek just for that).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

splxtreme — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:27:16 GMT

I just thought of this, and not sure if this is implemented or not, but I thought it would be a good idea, when you hover over your grouped thumbnail icon and used the scroll wheel you cycle through the windows. I think this would be faster than moving your mouse over each thumbnail. I think the only thing about that way though, is that if you use the wheel, the selected thumb will have to be automatically selected.

This is just a thought.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Sunspot2 — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:16:35 GMT

Fourth time i atempt to put a comment here.

All new functionalities of the windows 7 desktop are really interesting and make it very flexible.

But, keeping the taskbar in the bottom side of the screen, will I be able to move the start button to the right side of the screen and the notification area to the left side?

I think that would not be too hard to implement and would really make the desktop fully customizable and personal.

That option would at least make windows 7 desktop MY desktop.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

rokhoe — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 19:45:07 GMT

What I´d really like to see in W7 is the ability to use active corners, as in my opinion is a very fast way to interact with all your opened windows.

One suggestion, the new taskbar is a great addition, but I think that instead of increasing its size for making it more accessible for those with a touchscreen, it would be a more elegant solution to add a magnification functionality into it, similar to the OSX dock. Of course you should be able to turn this off, if you don´t need it.

Thanks and good luck for your work.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

bluvg — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:13:41 GMT

Why can I not post here... is there some sort of keyword filtering? Seems like some go through, some are rejected no matter how many times I retry....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

remyVyrak — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:52:08 GMT

Jump lists are a very useful feature.

I think it would also be cool that right after a right click to show a jump list, if we type letters, the jump list destinations part would turn into a search result zone only showing files that can be opened by the application.

This is also just a thought.

re: New taskbar design

Davester — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:12:01 GMT

Ah, I see there is a bit of comment moderation going on here since my previous comment has been deleted. That's sad to me, but it's the owner's prerogative to filter dissenting voices.

Perhaps someday Microsoft will listen. I'll try to be more proactive to provide constructive feedback on product direction before Windows 8 development begins in earnest.

Davester

P.S. I've commented on the topic of taskbar design in Vista previously at:

http://shellrevealed.com/blogs/shellblog/archive/2006/09/19/So-long-MessageBox-and-thanks-for-all-the-memories.aspx

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 22:41:55 GMT

@Davester

With Windows we are more than 1 billion user , If microsoft wants to make everyone happy

must issue at least 1000 different versions of Windows.

What really counts in an OS, is the consistency and usability ,and Seven (from what seems) provides maximum

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

burgesjl — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:07:18 GMT

Things look good on this front so far from what I've read. As far as principles go, you have rightly recognized the equivalence of a running program and one you might want to run - i.e. starting and switching tasks. However, I'm not sure you have fully thought through the destination vs program/task issue. In effect, you are forcing people to think about what program they used to access a document. In other words, you'd have to know about Word or Excel and you see the open documents for each program. But, I'm really interested in the document. It so happens in any given situation I create one with Word or with Excel based on the primary intent of that document - e.g. its a list or its free form. Things get trickier with Word and Powerpoint - both can be used to mix a graphic with text but often you could use them interchangeably. However, of most importance to me is to be able to group together multiple documents on a given theme/subject - typically, you use folders to do this. Now consider accessing web sites or Sharepoint sites (intranet sites). This is another area where the destination is more important than the program - the program in all cases is IE, but what you are doing si very different in each case. Would this require you to pin IE multiple times, based on how you want to use it? I even use webmail (IE) to access email - its not a seperate application like Outlook. How do you intend to deal with this?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Davester — Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:11:40 GMT

@Domenico

The market makes the determination about what constitutes maximum usability, not you or I. So, I guess we'll see.

I simply disagree with the tacit validation of the competition's taskbar designs, *especially* when I feel many aspects of the competitor's design are critically flawed.

Productivity is king. Kindly explain how displaying less information by default on the new taskbar makes me more productive (time AND date not withstanding)? Where's the balance: too much ying, not enough yang.

Whatever. Blindly follow your focus groups and marketroids, they clearly have led you down the right paths in the past and they know best. React. React. React. See you after Windows 7 launch.

Dave

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Helmore — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:18:47 GMT

@Davester:

Has your comment been deleted, or did it not show up? This comment section is being moderated by a computer algorithm and the makers and contributors of this particular bog have little control over this algorithm. This also applies to you, bluvg.

You can enable text next to icons on the desktop, as you can see in this video:

http://www.istartedsomething.com/20081103/shake-up-your-windows-7-with-aero-shake/

The text will only be there for open windows, but even if you don't enable this text then you will still be able to easily identify a running program from one that is not through this extra glass sheet that is put over the icon on the taskbar. Grouped icons will have multiple sheets on top of each other to indicate the fact that the icon represent multiple open windows.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 00:20:04 GMT

@Davester

Contrary I love the new taskbar.

I can not judge then 100% a product that is still in preBeta. I tried several times competing products frankly have never minimally satisfied

-Domenico

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

LarryOsterman — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:23:57 GMT

One comment about moderation. One thing that I've found on my blog is that it helps to be logged in.

If you create a blogs.msdn.com account and then log into that account, it drastically reduces the chances that your comment is interpreted as spam.

It's just a thought :).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

steven_sinofsky — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:11:16 GMT

Regarding comments ... the system is entirely automated and no human moderates comments. It has some reasonably aggressive spam filtering that uses a combination of factors such a length, ip address, contents, number of referenced URLs and referenced domains, mail addresses, number of comments from a person, frequency of comments, etc. While comments are not moderated you do need to create an account and be logged in to comment.

Referring to our comment policy posted at the start, I do exercise the right to delete comments (that made it through the automated system) that have offensive content (either in language or directed at individuals). I have used that right a small number of times.

The comment policy is http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2008/08/14/comments.aspx.

--Steven

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Saad — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 15:36:31 GMT

We like windows 7 be more customizable. as customize context menu.

If Microsoft make possible to create customized windows setup and create our own windows DVD will be great work!

because after install windows we are have to expend a hour to disable services, install drivers, change options and....

Transparecy effects and display location

Magius — Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:42:26 GMT

I am really loving the new taskbar design, not to mention all the new features.

There is one issue I would like to know if it is getting a fix. There is a long standing, um, "feature" in Vista's aero transparency (for the taskbar and sidebar) whereas if the screens are aligned in a non-traditional way the transparency is messed up. Non-traditional alignment meaning the primary monitor is not located at the (0,0) coordinates and/or any additional displays are located above or under the main display (logically speaking).

I realize this is a very small issue but it can be as distracting as aero disabling transparency when windows are maximized. :)

Please excuse me if this issue has been answered/covered before.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

phong21 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 00:14:13 GMT

Please don't remove keyboard shortcuts when making changes to the UI. Feel free to update existing shortcuts or add new ones, but don't force me to use the mouse.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

marcinw — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 01:22:00 GMT

I was thinking about posts here and I have decided to update my page (because I wanted to use less formal English) with some ideas, how things could be done like.

http://www.gammu.org/wiki/index.php?title=HydePark:Thinking_about_Windows_7

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

DCMonkey — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 03:03:20 GMT

I too welcome our new taskbar. Just today, I found myself wishing Outlook had a Jump List. I even found myself right clicking on its taskbar button in Windows XP to try to send a new email.

I can't wait for Windows 7.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

murtaza110 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:50:10 GMT

Thanks, Helmore. I figured out the glass sheet on active icons from the screenshots just after I had commented :)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Astellar — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:18:50 GMT

Please, do not forget, that taskbar can also be allocated verically, not only horizontally.

It is very usefull on modern wide-angle monitors, and alot of peoples use such orientation.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

murtaza110 — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 18:53:53 GMT

@Astellar:

I believe the Windows 7 taskbar can be oriented vertically as well as horizontally.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

steven_sinofsky — Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:51:20 GMT

If you check out this part of the PDC demo of Windows 7 (http://channel9.msdn.com/pdc2008/KYN02/) you can see the taskbar docked and some options. See time code 1:03:05 into the video.

Windows 7

snaven — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:29:53 GMT

Don't have to many versions of 7. Two or three is enough. Home, Buissness and Pro.

Windows Vista is overpriced. 7 Retail should only cost $200 and OEM $100. Why do you think people are downloading illegal Windows? Cause it's to expencive. Lower price, more buyers....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:07:27 GMT

@snaven

OEM Windows have a good price!

Most anticipated feature!!!

blarggstar — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 04:30:57 GMT

This is my most anticipated feature and it looks like you guys nailed it!!!

I am looking forward to this so much, you can count on me buying a copy of Windows 7 the day it comes out!!!

Thanks!!!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Jembe — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:13:34 GMT

I agree that there should be less versions of Windows (max 3: Home, Business and Ultimate). The OEM price for Windows is fine as it is.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

martinmine — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 20:24:03 GMT

Hi Steven!

I saw the keynote(s) of Windows 7 at PDC and WinHEC. I think Windows 7 this is going to be a greater version of Windows, than any other OS.

I really liked the new taskbar; it gives more space and gets the icons more organized. There is nothing bad with the taskbar, but when I installed the Windows 7, it did not have the “superbar”. I googled and found a way to unlock the feature. Why wasn’t this function activated by default in the M3 build?

When I had installed the Milestone 3 build of Windows 7, I found out that only some of the antivirus programs work with Windows 7. So, what antivirus do you use/recommend for Windows 7?

Martin

Windows 7 and Warp 10

Domenico — Thu, 27 Nov 2008 21:12:28 GMT

Excuse me my "OT"

@Windows Yeam

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd285359.aspx#How_to_Use

I wonder if these capabilities can be exploited so additional power or it is a choice in specific environments?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Timite.Hassan — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 21:46:00 GMT

Well, this new taskbar is very impressive.

However as said by several other people, i hope that it will be still possible to put move taksbar to either the right or the left of the screen.

As i have a 22" flat screen with a maximum resolution of 1680*1050, it is more convenient for me to move the taskbar at the right of the screen,along with the sidebar, and to add both the quick launch toolbar and a computer toolbar,for easier access to drives, on the left.

I intend to keep the taskbar on the right of my screen while i will have only the computer toolbar on the left.

Thoughts on my experience using

tryon — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:05:45 GMT

Here are my thougts on the taskbar:

- The new "Grouped Thumbnails" needs to be more reactive and appear as soon as we over an icon, the 1-2 second delay is unacceptable.

- eg, when chatting on live messenger or web browsing, I would like to have the ability to "ungroup" certain windows next to the "main icon" but without the text. (right now there is no "no text" checkbox, once ungrouped we have text next to it) because its a real pain to have to hover over the icon each time I want to see who's talking to me.

- We should be allow to open new pinned ie automaticly if we enter specific url in the adress bar, for example (mentionned already in a previous post) if I go to my webmail page Ishould be should be able to have it pinned automaticly if I wanted to.

Here are my thoughts on acessibility (a legally-blind person talking):

- Remember the Zoom setting in IE according to the url, if for example I want all my msdn webpages to be zoomed at 125% with a "full page zoom" (versus text zoom) it should be zoomed automaticly each time the browser starts and remember the type of zoom.

- Make higher-DPI available in a per-application basis. Not all legacy aplication respond well to high-dpi, but I still love it and would like to use it wherever I can (and as the population gets older, more and more people will love that feature that should be made even more acessible)

- When using high-dpi, I've encountered many pop-up error messages where we can't read the whole message (the end of the sentences are simply "cut"), you could certainly do something about it.

on switching:

- I like vista alt/tab (or xp with the powertoys from msft), but how about improving it a bit further in windows7 with an alternative to alt/tab that would only switch between windows from the same "grouped" icon in the taskbar? It would for example only switch between my live messenger windows. It's just a thought because when we have 14 windows open it's hard to just switch quickly through all those windows without having to deal with the mouse and little animation from the taskbar to view all those grouped items. (I prefered the click-button xp style for that, it was quick, even though I disabled it)

@ Martin : Nod32 Businesss works fine for me. (onecare does a check on the OS and it won't let me install it, too bad)

@ Astellar & @murtaza110: Of course the taskbar can be put wherever you want it, like in any recent previous windows. In fact place your windows XP tasbar to the left, reduce its size so you can only see the icons and it's pretty similar ;)!

So far my experience with W7 has been very pleasant and I'm very excited to see what you guys have to show us @ the HDC.

Keep up the good works and thx for listening to our comments.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

anonymuos — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:10:35 GMT

Hey Microsoft, read this article (www.community.winsupersite.com/blogs/paul/archive/2008/11/24/a-great-google-article-the-difference-between-easy-and-simple-and-why-this-is-a-problem-for-windows-7.aspx) and think and then take the decision. Maybe some obscure registry value?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Domenico — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 01:51:30 GMT

@anonymuos

Paul is a good blogger, I love Paul T. article.

In that article Paul did not know even what he wanted to say exactly.

probably was in a mystical status

- Domenico

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Asesh — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 07:33:36 GMT

I agree with some comments here, remove that home basic edition. Just keep three editions of Windows: Home (basic + premium), Business and Pro or Ultimate.

And if you are a PC then why do you install on Mac? this is another reason Mac sells are sky rocketing. Please don't let Windows 7 install on Mac then see how it will keep Apple's mouth shut :P in response to those Anti-Vista ads from Apple.

And once again, please update basic theme too, it's so ugly!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

marcinw — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:02:23 GMT

I commented Paul's article and some other in http://www.gammu.org/wiki/index.php?title=HydePark:Thinking_about_Windows_7 . I hope, that it will be good lecture for Steven and I'm afraid, that Paul can be at least partially right.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

bluefisch200 — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 18:35:33 GMT

@marcinw

I think you dont knwo what you are talking about...a sample...the idea of using XP Codebase for 7...do you know anything about the Windows Vista Codebase? Its mutch better....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

marcinw — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:18:43 GMT

@bluefisch200,

when we speak about codebase as kernel, GUI and everything else what creates system from the box - if it's much better in Vista, why wasn't such success like in XP ?

in my opinion: it has some things done (much) better, but some done much worse.

you can use codebase from older system (which was big success), move good things (some by simple moving files, some by reimplementing them) and count USD from selling.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

marcinw — Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:27:03 GMT

...or do some regression by moving some XP solutions into Vista codebase. It's technically possible.

Of course, some of you can say, that this is not modern or some of you can say, that I don't know anything about WIndows systems. Anyway, we will see in Beta stage, if my opinion is correct or not.

Before you will say it, please note (as given in my example), that Intel counts USD from Pentium M successors, there are also some (only some) Pentium 4 solutions used. And this is better for us customers...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Mantvydas — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:58:16 GMT

You know what I'd do, in order to separate active window icons on the taskbar, and inactive ones.

Color inactive taskbar icons in grayscale. That'd be very easy and simple for any user to understand.

Microsoft has always been successful with their "downgrading colors" even back in 1995 with their Windows 95, when you pressed shutdown and everything around the main dialog box got their colors off.

Or even today, in Windows Vista, when you get disconnected from a remote session, everything around you becomes grayscale. Or even when UAC prompt appears, everything around it, grascales.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

RedSign — Sun, 30 Nov 2008 20:12:48 GMT

@ Mantvydas

This seems to be a really good idea, but what would be if the icon for the program is already gray or black and white?

I think having a border around running programs to separate them from icons which programs are not running is the best idea, because it follows the same schema as in previous versions of windows. In Windows Vista running programms are presented as buttons with a border and in them there are the icons and some text, while the not running programs in the quicklaunch area are just presented as simple icons without a border around them.

The new superbar unites the quicklaunch area with the task switching area and so it is just logic to have borders around running programs just because it was always that way.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 02:13:52 GMT

My only request with the new task bar is that it takes up too much screen real estate. That is at the resolution that I use.(1152x864) on my main monitor, would like to see the ability to make it thinner. That's my problem with the ribbon, too fat, takes up way too much screen. would also like to see multi monitor support with the task bar, say in the form of having each monitor it's own task bar showing the programs running in that monitor. Ultra Mon has this ability, (tried using it after enabling the new task bar, and it gave me the old task bar in the other monitors,)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

job4prasad@hotmail.com — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:42:10 GMT

Hi Team, I was just wondering of a scenario. I work as a software engineer at one time, a Internet Browser at another and some other similar roles. Would the Task Bar give me a provision to change the task icons, based on the role I take?? That would really be a great help for me and sure for many others ...!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Ronsard — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:24:46 GMT

The new taskbar is one of my favorite features in Windows 7.

One quick suggestion, if this isn't currently implemented. It would be nice to give users the ability to change the icons on the taskbar shortcuts, in case they're running legacy applications (or modern ones, for that matter) that use ugly icons.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Vistaline — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 10:09:36 GMT

One last thing: about taskbar overflow, have you considered dynamically resizing the Taskbar Icons? Having to use the mouse to the really small taskbar page switchers is feels archaic and unnecessary, and it looks like the new taskbar is a model that can do away with that old feature.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Vistaline — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:06:25 GMT

This post was supposed to apear before the last one about overflow, but I guess not. I'm reposting it in two parts because it won't post as a whole, so we'll see what's happening where. This was actually second half (not that it matters) with my comments, the first half is me getting back to other commentors. Now, once more with feeling:

So, I'm using the taskbar today with a number of IE8 tabs, a few Explorer windows and so on and I realized that there is a need for the ability to switch to the last active window in a group. If I'm using Calculator and need to mouse (important because there's no Alt-Tab on mouse) back to another applications last active window/tab, I need to open the live previews then find the tab manually. It would be very useful to have LMB simply open the last active tab/window and MMB eject live previews (they'll come up in a second anyway).

Another thing I just noticed mid-post is that there is no (little?) glass effects on the live preview backgrounds, just a little inconsistency. I imagine it might have been done purposely but I'm just throwing it out there.

Chaitanya, you said something about a post about taskbar shortcuts and power features at the end of your session, is there an ETA on that? I'm curious to what other improvements there are in the new taskbar as far as window/application switching and usability. Love Jumplists, notifications, custom switchers, etc, that make the new taskbar (Taskbar 2.0?) what it is. Keep up the good work.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Vistaline — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 11:16:43 GMT

>>Ronsard:

Changing icons is easy, Taskbar items are simple links located in a folder (shell:taskbar pinned). Locate the item you want to modify and RMB > Properties > "Change Icon..."

>>Eghost:

Small icons weren't displayed often at PDC08 (only briefly during Steven's keynote, I believe) but they are there and decrease the taskbar to the same size as Vista's taskbar.

>>Mantvydas

I doubt they'd do that, both Chaitanya and Sam Moreau said something along the lines of letting the user's and the user's applications personalities shine through and this would mute that. An interesting idea no less though.

I'm not sure who asked or if they were answered but someone wanted quicklaunch shortcuts back. They are still there Win+1 would open Excel in Fig.2. Win+T still works as well, once they remove the Jump List button from the UI it will work slightly better.

Distinguishing between running and non-running programs

UserOfManyOperatingSystems — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:02:28 GMT

It is difficult to distinguish between running and nonrunning programs in the new taskbar. One big problem is that the rectangular highlights for running applications look much like they are highlighting the icons for nonrunning applications next to them, especially if there are running applications surrounding the nonrunning ones. You need to highlight the icons using something that is clearly associated with only those icons.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 15:55:38 GMT

@Vistaline

Already have it set to small icons still takes a tad too much screen, Vista task bar is larger than what you can change XP's. Again it just seems that lately MS likes to dominate the screen, I prefer to preserve as much of screen real estate as possible. With that being said, being able to pin programs to the start bar, is lot better than quick launch. One other suggestion is to allow the old style task bar as an option, not every thing that is new is always improved to a lot of people. That was and remains a large part of Vista's problem...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Vistaline — Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:47:13 GMT

>>Again it just seems that lately MS likes to dominate the screen

At first I thought you were mistaken but I can confirm that Vista's Taskbar is larger than XP's... by two pixels. :D You must have some good eyes but whether you do or don't, two pixels is below minor. It's absolutely amazing you would call that 'dominating' screen real estate. If 32 pixels height (Vista) is 'dominating', is 30 (XP) 'hogging'? Either way, I'm sure you'll be glad to know that 7's Taskbar has the same vertical height as XP's.

>>One other suggestion is to allow the old style task bar as an option, not every thing that is new is always improved to a lot of people.

All the functionality of the old model is in the new model and then some. The only thing Microsoft gains by keeping the old Taskbar is more antiquated components that need to be tested and supported. What do customers get? An option to use a less functional (lack of jumplists, pinning, rearranging, large icons, notifications) Taskbar.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

csmikle — Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:52:30 GMT

- Start Menu will not become obsolete, as the recently-Frequently Used list always works well for me. I am not one that will be pinning a lot of apps to the taskbar, as the icons are too much bigger than QuickLaunch's.

- I like remyVyrak's suggestion of being able to search JumpList destinations by beginning to type when you have the list in focus.

- Can jump lists show both an MRU and FRU simultaneously?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 02:38:27 GMT

@Vistaline

Well you can actually adjust xp's task bar even thinner with the help from addon programs, ie skinning programs. Vista, Microsoft really limited what skinning programs can do.

"What do customers get? An option to use a less functional"

Up to Windows XP you cold make it look and feel like windows 95 is so desired, that's the whole point "desire" opinions and options. what has hurt Vista is lack of options,just because you think it great not every one will, and like it or not Microsoft need to acknowledge those customers also. Windows 7 is already showing signs of, lack of options, that's a mistake they made with Vista.

I think saying sums it up.

"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."

--George Santayana

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

jin8768 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 03:13:23 GMT

I know it might be a bit late to change up the UI, but I was thinking the other day, why not display the thumbnails directly on the taskbar? What I mean is that when you bring your mouse over the icons, the icons is replaced by a thumbnail. It would make the whole "window preview" more streamlined in my opinion. Also, for multiple windows of the same program, right now it's shown by a single icon with a stacked borders around it. When you place your mouse on the icon, it could span out one the taskbar to show the multiple thumbnails. I think this would be more productive because it would happen instantly rather than having to wait for the thumbnail to pop up or having to click on the icon. Of course, this would use up space on the taskbar, so maybe after a certain number of windows open, the thumbnails would be replaced by a menu (which I think is what it is like right now.)

Also, I think you should bring back the button that appears to the side of the icon when you hover above it that opens the jumplist. It was existent in the older builds. Right now, the jumplist feature seems too unnoticeable to the general public. You could keep the right click as another way to open the jumplist.

One last idea, have you tried to put the text (the name of the windows) below the icon? It would make the windows taskbar even taller, so maybe make it appear only when you hover your mouse above the taskbar (kind of like the auto-hide feature except it only hides the test.) This would make it easier to identify the windows in some circumstances without having to hover above each icon to find the right windows.

So these are some ideas/suggestions I came up with. I know they pretty big changes to ask for (and I'm no where near an expert at UI designing,) but I would appreciate it if you look at what I wrote and consider it.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

njprice101 — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 08:19:27 GMT

Think the new taskbar is great. Though I think it has been mentioned before but the ability to double-click an icon in the taskbar and have it launch a second/third instance would be very useful.

Also I like turning window animation off so that things just pop into view instead of having to wait for them to fade, or minimize/maximize into view. The taskbar thumbnails I feel are snappier this way but disabling animation also disables AeroPeek. Can't we get AeroPeek without animation; no fade just pop that window into view when you hover your mouse over it.

Overall, very nice UI improvements. Keep up the good work.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Vistaline — Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:09:28 GMT

>>why not display the thumbnails directly on the taskbar?

It would probably be impossible to tell the difference between any two windows with thumbnails that small, even still at 60px [1]. About moving the text, is this what you wanted[2]? In this picture I had to increase the taskbar size to 59px height. Large icons taskbar is 40px height and small 30px height.

>>Up to Windows XP you cold make it look and feel like windows 95 is so desired

Windows 7 still has the classic mode, small icons, and text labels[3]. The only thing that is missing is quicklaunch, which is inconsequential overall. As far as feel is concerned the taskbar area didn't change all too much during 95 to XP, it wasn't hard to replicate the feel of 95.

>>Also, I think you should bring back the button that appears to the side of the icon when you hover above it that opens the jumplist.

20px width per application is a lot to lose for the sake of discoverability. My relatively clean taskbar with ten items loses 200 pixels, nearly enough pixels for me to open/pin four more applications!

>>Though I think it has been mentioned before but the ability to double-click an icon in the taskbar and have it launch a second/third instance would be very useful.

The problem with double-clicking is that users expect the first click to consistently, without pause or incident, switch to their application or bring their windows previews to view. MMB, Shift+Click, Win+0-9 all do this nearly as easily.

>>Can jump lists show both an MRU and FRU simultaneously?

Yes. See PC24: Welcome to the Windows 7 Desktop at around 36 or so minutes for more info.

Pictures [1], [2], and [3] can be found on my live gallery (Click on my name > Profile > Gallery). There is NO blog associated with it and only those three pictures, if you are wondering. Sorry for the inconvinience but I'm trying to cut just about whatever I can to get this thing to post.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 05:19:18 GMT

@Vistaline

Vistaline, my friend classic mode is not even near what windows 95 looked like, no tool bars are the same, no icon bar, no up arrow, menu bar in the wrong spot with out hacking the registry, no it's most definitely not classic mode it's vista mode with Grey colours. If it was true classic mode the UI would be exactly like windows 95.

okay with that being said, I read that quick launch is going by by, really not needed anyway but what I like to see is less space between items pinned to the start bar. One other request, The "All Programs" would like to see the option to show this as a menu.

Now here's a quirk I discovered, I made a short to All Control Panel Items and it won't let me pin it to the start bar.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

jin8768 — Mon, 08 Dec 2008 06:01:52 GMT

@Vistaline

What I meant was to keep the thumbnail size the same, so part of the thumbnail will extend pass the the edge of the taskbar. So, instead of appearing above the icon in its own little "window", it would replace the corresponding icon and be shown floating in front of the taskbar. Does that make any sense? I'm not completely sure how to explain it. The reason to do this is that in the new taskbar, the thumbnails are the "switcher" of the windows, and the icons themselves don't seem to do much except open these thumbnails (This is considering what would happen when you have multiple processes of the same program open, since programs that only have one window open switch almost exactly the same as before.) What I am trying to do is to remove that extra click. Of course you can hover over the icon for a few of milliseconds to display the thumbnail, but then you have to then bring your mouse up to the thumbnail as well. I seems more convenient to me if the thumbnails just appear where your mouse already was.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

chall3ng3r — Sat, 13 Dec 2008 02:42:13 GMT

New improvements are super cool. And the way you explained in this post really made me excited to try them firsthand :)

One suggestion, multiple displays are now a norm for all developers, designers and business people. It'll be cool id this new Superbar could be extended to more than one display, and even we can have an option on display properties if I want the Superbar to enable for that display or not.

Keep up the good work!

// chall3ng3r //

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

MathiasR — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:16:40 GMT

Please make sure the taskbar has great support for multiple monitors.

Each monitor should have it's own taskbar, so that I don't have to move the mouse to the main monitor to change between programs on another monitor.

I use UltraMon on Vista to get this behavior. It would be great if 7 supported that out of the box, so that I don't have to spend money on any third party tools.

Taskbar Icon Size

mustafaburny2007 — Thu, 25 Dec 2008 21:24:34 GMT

I have to hand it to you guys, the Windows 7 taskbar is genius in its efficiency and style. I know a lot of people are going to say it looks a lot like the dock from Mac OS X, but anyone who uses it for even a minute or two will immediately realize it contains much much more functionality than the dock. One suggestion I have in mind though involves icon size. It would be great if, instead of 2 default sizes for the icons (large or small), the user was given access to a slider from which he or she could pick a size that would accommodate all the icons he or she has on the taskbar (great for laptops with small screens or people who love putting a lot of icons there). I know Apple does a similar thing, but it is a good idea, or they wouldn't have included it. The magnify feature that Apple does when the user mouses over the dock is just tacky though--don't do something like that.

Start Menu

arrow22 — Fri, 26 Dec 2008 09:52:01 GMT

Start Menu needs serious attention.

As mentioned by a few other users, the start menu's many functions have become redundant with the amazing work done on the task bar. It sounds awesome!!

However, the start menu has lost any real sense. I'd ask you, what is the purpose of the start menu?

Personally, I use it for only 2 things: the quick search function which gets me to any program quickly, or to access control panel/my computer type destinations. A more novice user will use it more extensively but a quick look at them trying to find what they're looking for will tell you right away that it's not the most efficient way of accomplishing this.

My advice (and I realize the chances at a major overhaul on a component as ancient as the start menu at this stage of the build are slim) is to rethink what needs to be able to do, and how to allow him/her to do that efficiently. You'll find that the new taskbar can accomplish most of those tasks, leaving only a few things without a home.

And a home is exactly my point: Create a centralized interface that appears at the CENTER of the screen (why change your area of focus at the corner and back when this information can easily be in the middle of the screen?) This interface will house the user's main folders, control panel link, and, i'd suggest, an area for thumbnails of files and websites listed as favourites or pinned by the user. (Think google chrome on this one, without the thumbnails moving around) You can call the new button Home, or My Place or anything but Start (ie. start makes no sense, never made sense, never will make sense) The interface should be so graphical and so intuitive that my grandmother could finally use a computer! (think microsoft Surface in terms of ease of use)

Finally, allow this interface to be infinitly customizable. OEMs love to distinguish themselves as ways to differentiate themselves. Traditionally, they've done this by adding useless software that is usually redundant and clunky. This would allow them to create something very different from their competitors that would also add variety to the many different systems, even if it is mostly skin deep.

This "Home" would be the link for all your most used applications, most visited websites, most used files... A user should also be able to easily personalise it. Users that can create an interface that is unique to them will feel a sense of ownership and attatchment towards their OS which is something many Windows users can't develop in its current form. 30% change their glass colour. That's why. it's to create that sense that this windows that they're running is unique and refined to their own personal tastes. You need a way to offer your consumers that. I think this accomplishes the task very well!

Finally, Large corporations running windows could use a customized interface to provide a consistant experience to their employees that features company ressources (manuals, timesheet programs, website, etc.) that are now easy to find and consult.

Desktop icons are dead. open windows overtop make them impractical to find. Start menu features are redundant, overcrowded and offer no versatility. Please don't let another version of Windows through with outdated features. HP has already started shipping computers with interfaces that offer more user-friendly interfaces exactly because windows is missing this. Touch sensitive screens will only make this need stronger. Consider this, that's all I can ask.

Please post if you find some of these points interesting or if you find reasons why this might not work.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

wicks — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:15:36 GMT

What is happening to my comments?

criticism

wicks — Mon, 29 Dec 2008 15:19:19 GMT

I read Paul Thurrott's comments about Windows 7 being simple but not easy. I don't agree with him completely (about ;such as the jump lists and the difficulty of starting new instances of programs )but there are a few points which I do agree.

Not a Dock, please.

commenting — Sun, 04 Jan 2009 01:01:51 GMT

I am eager to see an evolution of the Windows Platform... But please don't revamp it under Apple's shadow.

One thing that has always kept me from buying an Apple iMac has been its price and its ugly dock...

The Dock is not organizational... I hate to have 3 distinct Internet Explorer windows open, and not being able to quickly spot the one I need by its name. For example, I can have these 3 windows could be: a site titled: Windows 7, another titled Vista features, and the third one titled XP Advantages.

Based on the current taskbar, I can see a textual description of the title of each page. If the windows are not stacked, and I need to go to the page about Windows 7, I just look at my taskbar and look for the IE icon that has the title "Windows 7". If they are stacked, I will click on Internet Explorer tab, and then choose the window I need by its title.

Now this new taskbar hinders the process, all I have is a huge IE icon.. that gives me no clues, I actually have to hover over icons in order to find the one I need. A dock is a bad combination with multiple running applications of the same programs. What if I have 10 IE windows, I will have to hover one by one?

I support the comments of many individuals, who advocate the idea of being able to switch between a "dock" and a real taskbar that offers textual guidance.

I think Windows has always been superior to Mac OS due to its organizational layout.

We are getting too trendy to match up the Apple minority leading us to make ineffective mistake as Windows Vista. Although, I prefer Windows Vista over any Mac OS hands down.

I hope you understand my idea.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar & IE8

hawks008 — Thu, 08 Jan 2009 03:23:04 GMT

I luv the new superbar!! But it would be goo if you could do the same for ie 8 as the tabs would look better like the superbar and prograss bars as well or even the office 07 menus look better then the one you have at the moment.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

mAxius — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:01:29 GMT

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GIVE US BACK THE CLASSIC START MENU OPTION... IF ITS NOT GIVEN BACK I WILL HAVE TO USE 2008 R2...

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

mAxius — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:16:19 GMT

The reason being is not everyone will love the new start menu. this option will give xp users something that they are used to seeing and cause less confusion.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

ups — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:04:46 GMT

Finally able to teste the Windows 7 Beta and so far I'm loving it!

But it does not come without problems (and I'm not talking of the 4 explorer crashes so far)

Regarding the taskbar, I have only one problem: the empty space.

Around icons there is a lot of empty space. It is useless and gives-me a strange feeling that something is wrong and was not well thougth.

Specially using small icons, the white space is overwhelming and useless. It is as if choosing small icons have no effect as they occupy almost the same space as using big ones.

Furthermore, this is true on the clock.

On normal mode (large icons) the clock placeholder shows time and date.

On small icons, it only shows the time, but the space it takes is exactly the same. So there is a big empty space around it.

I wonder why this road was taken: true that the screens are getting bigger, but they are also getting smaller (netbooks) and more apps are being run. So it cannot be used as en excuse.

Empty space is not useful nor pretty! Its just waste.

Sometime I really wonder what is going on the developers head....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:00:35 GMT

Here's a annoying quirk. The "Orb" get's it's bottom cut off when the task bar is at the top. But not always, I have windows 7 on two machines one it cuts it off at the bottom and the other it doesn't, but the one that is does I dual boot with vista and the Vista orb dose not get cut off. Very Strange

The windows 7 experience

Voracle — Thu, 15 Jan 2009 01:46:02 GMT

My friend installed windows 7 beta on his computer, and I got a chance to use it a little bit.

I must say....

It reminds me a lot of Windows Vista. That's not a good thing. Couldn't you make the "Out the box" experience a little more unique?

I mean, it's like I didn't really install anything new!

Yes, the new taskbar is awesome, but there's that round windows logo again. Why not make the Windows 7 one square? Or triangle? Don't you have artists??!?!

My biggest recommendation to the windows developers (if they're actually reading this)... is that you should try to let people feel good about the new.

Make them feel like they've bought something novel. Make it look new, but not making so many visual points soooooo Vista like.

Perhaps have it default to enabling all of the cool features. Perhaps have a sample living desktop. Do something different!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

last.try — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 17:21:51 GMT

Windows 7 Taskbar is very good. But I know how to make it perfect :)

On my desktop there is 14 shortcuts fit the taksbar. It's much bigger, than in Windows XP. But not enough for me. The problem is how I use my PC. I use it for everything. I am a developer, so Visual Studio (and MSDN) - is on central place. And sometimes I am a musitian to. Hence Cubase and Guitar Pro (and Akoustic Piano). And Artist. So Photoshop and Illustrator. And Internet and e-mail too. So 14 is not enough.

What is realy need - is little switch on the side. Select "Developper" - and there is Visual Studio. And now there is even command prompt. Select "Administrator" - here is Computer Management, Security Policy and Powershell. Be You an Atrist, Writer, or something else - there is always enough space for You!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

ShakaUVM — Mon, 19 Jan 2009 01:40:01 GMT

Sorry, but this just looks horrible.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

streuth — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:56:24 GMT

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed. Quick launch would do well to be separable from running apps.

Pinning is a great idea, but hey, it could have been in a separate tray.

I no longer seem to be able to control window size an position from the keyboard. It's bad on those occasions where I don't have a mouse, and I don't like finger marks on my touch screen monitor!

Like all developers, I make an effort to put shortcuts for the apps I develop in a neat logical tree. It's a shame then that the GUI will only let me get at that tree (on the start menu) through a window which is just too small. At least it could be sizeable.

Perhaps a better option would be a neat little window that pops up for each level of hierachy, and a highlight that shows which item is selected. If you did it that way, then it would work well with the mouse AND keyboard.

:rolleyes:

I'm not against change though. A control key combination (perhaps WINKEY+R) that you can hit to launch a dialog with a search box, that finds your apps would be great.

IMO there was nothing wrong with the Vista UI beyond the fallout from UAC. It's a shame that a lot of good stuff has gone along with the UAC fallout. I feel sure it could co-exist, and I don't think you'd be alienating quite so many people.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

streuth — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:19:51 GMT

Oh, and I'd second the comments that those have made about launching second instances of applications like explorer.

I mean it's something I commonly do so I don't have to fiddle with trees on common operations. I can have a different current directory in each.

For the sake of Jumping Leprachaun, give us the power to control where the "common locations" which seem now to be ubiquitous, actually go. For me, the real "MyDocuments" is on another partition, for obvious reasons.

For me, they have never pointed anywhere useful, and they take up huge real estate in the explorer, and on on the keymenu too.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

nmosafi — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:22:31 GMT

A bit of feedback in Win7 Beta 1.

I am finding programs like MSN messenger really hard to use with this mode. It would be nice to be able to turn it off for certain applications perhaps? Why does messenger no longer appear in the area to the right?

I also tried disabling (Use small icons and Never combine taskbar buttons) this to see what it was like but it's not that nice either. The pinned programs which haven't been launched appear in between open ones - maybe they should stay on the left in this mode. Also it's not that easy to see what the currently selected window is in the taskbar when it's in this mode, especially when the aero transparency is set quite high.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

smapdi — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 03:11:36 GMT

I skimmed above and maybe my questions were answered and I missed them, but I want to put links to locations or vpn connections on my taskbar. I also want to be able to open two explorer windows or two or more browsers at one time.

Having to navigate the start menu to do this seems like a waste of time and clicks.

I figured out that I can place a shortcut to explorer.exe with the path in it on the taskbar but it takes a second to load up as it is starting a whole new explorer process.

Besides the jumplist, am I missing something?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Eghost — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 20:40:47 GMT

Two request, I know Microsoft won't do it, but I got to ask any way.

a: when task bar is on top prevent programs from slipping underneath of it. This has been happening since 95 and is still "broken"

b: the ability to show, "All Programs" as a menu. I don't want "classic look back" I would like to see the options of putting "All Programs" as an menu in the right hand pane along with my computer, control panel etc.

I actually found a registry hack to turn my favorites in to "all Programs but you loose my favorites in IE All Programs should be a no brainier for Microsoft and it would more than likely appease most who want the classic look to the task bar back....

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:14:21 GMT

Looks great. The taskbar is getting better - nice overhaul - but make sure not to let lanuching programs take precedence over tasks and processes.

The icons are hiding processes now. You need to do something about that. You decided to give priority to new "quick launch" and make it hybrid with process status - however hiding the last behind the quick launch bar. I promise you it is going to pop out of the box as an important problem in environments investing in data protection - that is everything but consumers.

So fix this hybrid of new launchbar and process linie. Actually the problem is the process overview is effectively gone.

On top of that the mix of processes (active programs) and programs - the last (programs) will trick users into easy thinking and loose data.

You could offer to highlight background for active programs (processes) and/or give a fact for status. Users can not be held accountable if they dont get this and loose data. Eventually MS will be held accountable.

More elaboration below ...

Did not take the opertunity to comment on follow ups or this one. But will drop my "late" comments here.

BTW I also critisized during Vista Beta that these changes was not made then.

"Except that - I think the possibilities for extending the desktop-band are great" ... a comment I put out earlier when you collected feedback. More focus on the deskband is great. Thx.

However, a few things to expect from users:

- Allthough you have the classic interface many users were used to have a supervision of their tasks just looking at the processline (taskbar). You have to alt-tab now or inspect every active or even passive icon to get some sort of impression what tasks are processing.

The problem may be a professional user logging off not saving his work. Thus such responsibility is now delegated away from the process line (not directly available) - thus also delegated away from the user (he can not see it anymore - he goes "blind") - and current apps do not take this responsibility for sure to persist data that the user did not care to save.

So net effect may be users or businesses loosing unrecoverable data.

You may be need to do something about that.

The process line has aesthetics - looking styled - however static. So even though the prior process line also would collapse the icons were still dynamic or like small screens giving feedback.

Because the icons are static that may give the impression that no processes are left active behind them.

Now you don't get feed back which will make the machine harder to fly safely.

You have to inspect your status to get it. Thats for people would don't care about "status" like surfers and email-writers.

The last group of users will love simple - but they may be going netbook or cheap computer with growing screen size (i.e. also HDMI) - because the don't neither big pc or current macs.

Otherwise - like with Windows Libraries - users are developing same behaviour like historica enthusiatic users since 80'ties. Me being one. The new case for Libraries showed users keep 50% of their data outside their my documents. Nothing new here - they are just getting experienced - and will use the toolbox for more. It may take years - it already did - and now they are managing the file system. What could be harder? If Libraries is an important feature for a majority of windows users today don't expect users to be too simple.

Except from that the taskbar is getting better - nice overhaul - but make sure not to let lanuching programs take precedence over tasks and processes.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:28:01 GMT

>> You could offer to highlight background for active programs (processes) and/or give a fact for status.

The background highlights when the cursor hovers above - but that does not change anything. You still have to interview each program (since you can not by sight distinguish processes and programs - everything looks passive - UNLESS user interacts with icon).

So some options for background coloring that will stick beyond highlighting (interaction) - plus an optional number.

Please let me know if that is already possible to set?

P.s. The current highlighting on interaction is somehow redundant (more aesthetic that functional) because if the icon is hiding proceses the contextual box will anyway. So why not use the highlighting - if you have to choose - for signaling the icon is hiding processes?

Anyway as I already put it will develop into an important problem for businesses that the icons are hiding processes (without giving that information away if user does not inspect each icon before logging off)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:45:08 GMT

Ok, did some more testing ...

Highlighting seems to work allright. Is event-oriented meaning internal triggers (i.e. secuity) may pop a highlighted status - while external triggers (i.e. use interaction - mouse modality) can highlight a give active process status (including eventually popping a list of processes).

This is the default. Beyond that it can be configured to not combine processes.

However - I like the default view.

So - while you can't have everything - think about another default pop in the notification area that will display your process status. However, having it there all the time may be beyond the scope of notication events (since really a service).

May be the system tray would be better.

Meanwhile - as I logged off - like in Vista - Windows offered to changed stuff in most cases.

But think about the possibility of getting your super process status in the default view (just a quick launch + notifications).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:50:52 GMT

So the actualization of the user interface coming well along - but getting a super view or abstract view is still important. It lacks.

The man still needs to be put in control instead of responsbility delegated to os on super process status i.e. to control workflow (i.e. not forget about processes)

So some more config options for a super view control in there - if hidden allright for now with me (i.e. group policy)

Beyond that - very satisfied with the taskbar.

P.s. I know I can probably do this creation myself and may be will.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:16:48 GMT

Must say after having used it a bit - I'm really starting to like it.

What got me off in the first place was really the passive icons on the left - iexplore, explorer and media player.

Now I understand that the super vision is there if you consider the icons normally a collection of processes - while the other case is exceptional. If so - to stay of the process bar (task bar ...) any "suspended" processes so go far left with clear separation into a suspended collection.

So can you put a separator there for a suspended collection of processes beyond the normal collection?

Except for those passive (suspended) processes (considering workflow) - you have a kind of super vision on active processes.

Especially the notification area for active processes is great.

Now - could be nice if passive icons (non-processes) were kind of pushed to left ... they are now ... but may be lacks a clear separator. I.e. when processing they could move to the right of such a separator aka the notications (even though they go far right)

This way there would be a more clear distinction between a collectio of passive mode (just programs aka quick launch) and the NORMAL collection of processes (active programs).

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:25:21 GMT

So you real problem here is you say you got rid of quick launch - however you kept it around anyway with the ie, explorer and wmp icon. So you need to add a separator for active and inactive collection of processes (workflow) - or something similar - and probably virtualize (actualize) behaviour across the two collections so a process can go right when scheduled(you already kind of have that with the notifications, i.e. that area is on the right - so suspended process can go left?)

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:38:15 GMT

... and that is more or less how it already works. Suspended processes go left. Allthough ie, explorer and wmp stay in place when suspended (so you can locate them - i.e. hybrids with concept of a quick launch bar).

I did not notice the that border around the ie, explorer and wmp icons if they suspend (does not hide any processes). The background color is indifferent when the border is there (processes) or not (no processes). But that is described properly in the manual no worries I guess.

So reconsidering my above statements while discovering the yet less described new taskbar I must add "nice job" ms :o)

I will pick up VS and give it a try ... I hope this is going to be great

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 03:38:28 GMT

I did not notice the that border around the ie, explorer and wmp icons if they suspend (does not hide any processes). The background color is indifferent when the border is there (processes) or not (no processes). But if that is described properly in the manual no worries I guess.

So reconsidering my above statements while discovering the yet less described new taskbar I must add "nice job" ms :o)

I will pick up VS and give it a try ... I hope this is going to be great

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Computermensch — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 04:00:45 GMT

Though please still think about the borders or may be the background color or even icon height vs padding against the bar height ... if explorer is "on" processing ... it actually looks like wmp is "on" as well ... if wmp has a process next to it on the right - effectively it may be appear to the user that wmp itself has a border thus "on" - while it is only wmp's neightbours to the each side that is "on".

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Tanveer Badar — Sat, 14 Feb 2009 16:48:43 GMT

It is impossible to minimize an application by clicking on the task bar button if multiple windows are open. The separate windows must also be grouped into one icon for this bug to manifest.

I don't know how such a simple scenario was missed.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

aeries — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:35:47 GMT

I'd like to see a new desktop design to go along with this.

For example, instead of having one big open space for desktop windows, allow to to set up a grid table for specific applications. For example, let's say I want to make a new grid table, I give it 4 rows and 6 columns, I assign it to my Second monitor and I name it 2-4X6 Monitor 2, 4 rows 6 columns.

Then make it so I can use the editor (use your imagination) to assign Windows Classes to this grid table. The editor should simply list the class name and the windows titles open of that class name. This allows me to easily see what window class an msn chat window is and assign it to my 2-4X6 grid table.

Now when I start an msn chat it should display on my second monitor in the top left cell, row 1 column 1. If I open another chat window it displays on 2nd monitor Row 2 Column 1, etc until it fills up. Once full it would start over at row 1 column 1 except now I would see a tab bar to switch between the two windows inside the cell.

Switching to a different type of window should just make my msn chat windows look like I manually rearrange them that way.

Basically, I desire new features for the desktop specifically in the realm of multimonitor support.

Let us specifify how many monitors the task bar stretches onto for example. I have tow monitors in horizontal span mode so it's like I have a really wide desktop, 3360 X 1050 to be exact. A feature to tell the taskbar to extend accross the entire span would be fantastic. Windows open on the second monitor shouldn't be on the taskbar located on the first monitor.

Specifically though, I want control over which monitor my applications display on when I open them.

In vista it's a pain because I have 3 monitors, but I only use the third one when I'm watching movies, anime, or playing certain games (it's an HDTV). Sometimes I'll have a website on my T.V. Which is on the other side of the room and close it while it's on the T.V. The problem is that later whem I'm back on my computer monitors I open a webpage and I see the browser in the taskbar, but I don't see the window. The web browser opened on my T.V. and there's no efficient way of getting it back. So I have to turn the T.V. back on, let it warm up, switch to HDMI2, turn around and grab the web browser and drag it back onto my main monitor. Then I have to restore/maximize it a bunch of times to get windows to open it on monitor 2 next time.

The table grid layout feature would really help out here. Then I could make another grid called 2-1 (monitor 2, 1 cell (full screen) and asign FireFox to it, that way it always opens on monitor 2. Likewise I would create a grid called 1-1 for Visual Studio to always open on monitor 1.

Layout options with multiple monitors in mind would be awesome. Also some context menu options in the taskbar to move windows to another monitor would be appreciated.

I'm aware there are tools to do this, but most of them I've tried are poorly constructed and don't work properly. To lazy to write my own, might as well write a new shell entirely if I did.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

vbmb — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:01:58 GMT

I actually HATE this new taskbar... It's too big and takes too much space from the screen (It distracts), and have very big buttons, that reduce the amount of buttons that can be there without confusing you, because they will become worse to read and the "grouping" option is a confusing alternative to navigate through windows, that will be very painful when working with a large amount of windows... Also, in Seven, notification area icons seem to take much more space than needed.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

JJohnson1701 — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:25:04 GMT

As for the inline notifications, it would be helpful for Outlook to show a visual number in the taskbar button of how many new e-mails are in my inbox, and its download progress from the server.

It would also be useful for an option to see a number in the button telling how many open windows of a program there are, with the option to disable that as well for those who like to know how many windows are open.

The new Taskbar is an excellent evolution of the Win95 concept. Just a few more tweaks and it's golden.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

JJohnson1701 — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 23:27:26 GMT

A resizeable start menu would be nice as well, so I can increase the vertical size if I wanted to to make use of my very large monitor.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Konstantinos — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 11:27:15 GMT

When u minimize IE8 there is NO VISIBLE WAY to go back to the tab u were before. How can I restore IE and see the tab that used to be visible ?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:43:35 GMT

@last.try - yes, I agree that users need something like this - KDE/CDE/GNOME have had for a long time multiple desktops that you can label for performing different tasks - something that Windows has always been lacking for power users. Microsoft could have an opportunity to take this concept even further.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 04:57:39 GMT

I also agree with many others here that it is not easy to distinguish running from non-running programs. I think that @Mantvydas idea of making non-running program icons greyscale (or at least with a reduced colour saturation or increased transparency) is ABSOLUTE GENIUS!! Are you listening Microsoft? - GENIUS!!

TRANSPARENCY for non-running programs

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:01:26 GMT

... actually, now that I think about it, increasing the transparency of non-running programs is actually a one place where Microsoft's recent transparency fetish would actually be useful!! One of the first things that I do to a Vista/7 system is to reduce the amount of Aero transparency as I find the transparent window titles very distracting. Here is one place where this can be used to the advantage of the GUI, rather than just for eye-candy!!

"Show windows from this application" option

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:43:32 GMT

I also think that there needs to be a jump-list option for each taskbar icon to "Show windows from this application". Clicking on this would restore all windows from the particular application, but minimize all other application windows.

re: "Show windows from this application" option

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 05:47:08 GMT

... perhaps my previous suggestion could be performed by double-clicking the application's taskbar icon, or perhaps the 'aero shake' feature could have a modifier (Ctrl/Shift) where it would apply the shake to all windows of the active application.

re: "Show windows from this application" option

cauleyflower — Mon, 27 Apr 2009 06:17:21 GMT

rethinking the naming of my suggested "Show windows from this application" feature, I think it should be called "Exclusively Restore All" to match the existing "Restore All / Minimize All / Close All" menu options.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

Czechnmymail — Tue, 28 Apr 2009 08:20:36 GMT

This post, while interesting and generally well-written, has faint sexual bias.

There are nine occurrences of "she" and four of "her." There are zero occurrences of "he," "him," "his," and, by extension, "he or she" and "him or her."

I don't know why you elected not to use gender-neutral pronouns such as "he" and "him" or "he or she" and "him or her." What I do know is that if I wrote even an internal document specifically implying the gender of a nonspecific user, it would come back to me. If written in an external document on a corporate website, such references could be grounds for office climate issues or worse.

For details on personal pronouns and gender, consult the table here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_English#Modern_English

That said, excellent work on the taskbar!

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

robl8 — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 00:25:39 GMT

My comments are around the Pin to Taskbar feature. There are several reason the old quick launch is preferred over pin to taskbar. The biggest issue is that the new pin to taskbar takes up way too much room. The quicklaunch fit three icons in the same space as one pin item. Also, the pinned items become interspersed with the open applications and it becomes confusing.

I use the feature in leiu of desktop icons. I make my taskbar two rows high. I can line up almost all the icons I use on the smaller quicklaunch format. I put the open application buttons on the bottom of the two rows.

If you could get rid of the verticle pipes, make the form factor much smaller and dedicate an area for Pin to Taskbar items, it might become compelling enough to use.

"Always Combine" Taskbar option

cauleyflower — Sat, 09 May 2009 01:10:51 GMT

Absolutely loving the RC here, but I have one big big request for a very logical taskbar option that would improve it immensely.

It is sometimes difficult to recognise the taskbar icon of unfamiliar programs. It can also be difficult to differentiate between running and non-running programs. The "Combine when taskbar is full" taskbar option sort-of solves this problem, but is not eloquent and removes much of the neatness that the default "Always combine, hide labels" taskbar adds. I actually find the "Combine when taskbar is full" option only useful and neat when the taskbar is actually full!! When full it, very logically, only shows the program name in the taskbar label and only shows the document/window instance name in live preview.

My suggestion is for an improvement to the "Combine when taskbar is full" option, except with one major difference - the taskbar buttons would always combine. It could be placed as an additional option called "Always combine" in the taskbar properties.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

cauleyflower — Sat, 09 May 2009 01:31:27 GMT

I think you should add an option that would help when you have many instances of a program running - allow a double click on a taskbar icon to restore the last active window of that program.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

cauleyflower — Sat, 09 May 2009 04:13:24 GMT

Ignore my last post at Friday, May 08, 2009 6:31 PM - I see you can do this in the RC by holding the Ctrl key and clicking!!! :D

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

pappabj0rn — Tue, 02 Jun 2009 12:25:10 GMT

Is there any way I could open all the windows in a group?

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

multimolti — Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:15:08 GMT

the taskbar grouping feature i love so much doesn't work when there are to many windows/tabs/... is there any solution to fix it? because it actually looks like XP like that... here a screenshot:

http://www.multimolti.de/download/images/windows7appgrouping.png

The taskbar hides icons

BMAC — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:34:27 GMT

The one issue that I have with the new taskbar is that when items get downloaded to the desktop they may become hidden by the taskbar. Shouldn't the taskbar reserve that real estate and not allow icons to be placed under it when it is visible?

Aero glass remains on screen

BMAC — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 17:38:01 GMT

If you increase the size (width/height) of the taskbar but later decide to reduce it back to the previous dimension, aero glass remains on the screen. This can only be removed by rebooting -- or logging off.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

HGH — Sat, 18 Jul 2009 21:10:10 GMT

The Windows 7 taskbar is the most important Windows UI change since Windows 95, and it will dramatically change the way you use Windows. And it's better than the Mac's Dock.

re: The Windows 7 Taskbar

JasonZh — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 10:21:12 GMT

很好！Windows 7是很棒的系统。