Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Alan Burchill — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:20:33 GMT

So is this why my Dell Mini 9 with a 1024x600 screen only shows the old vista style progress bar?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

gkeramidas — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:31:22 GMT

now you need to get rid of the "pearl" in the start menu, since it's outdated. it looks awful.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

tophtucker — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:36:35 GMT

Very thoughtful. :) Though, unlike gkeramidas, I still like the pearl.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

gkeramidas — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:40:41 GMT

"express yourself and to make sure your PC is really your PC"

i find this laughable.

1. remove "invert selection" menu item

2. remove/hide quick launch

3. remove classic

4. restrict putting ie icon on the desktop

5. restrict changing full row select in explorer

6. don't allow network shares o be added to library.

there are more, too. i could care less about having a slideshow on the desktop. i don't sit here and look at the desktop, i have tasks to complete and the items i mentioned above make my tasks harder to complete. i could care less about a boot screen, too. how does that help me complete tasks?

i'm tired of the fluff, and the removing of useful items.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Domenico — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:41:32 GMT

New Boot animation is Awesome ! :D

Go to RC Team GO!!

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

steven_sinofsky — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 08:41:36 GMT

@Alan_Burchill -- the new sequence requires a native resolution higher than the 1024x600, "It gets a pointer to the frame buffer from the firmware (either BIOS or UEFI firmware), and displays a higher resolution image (1024 x 768)."

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Xepol — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:33:16 GMT

Still never had any computer I have ever worked on ever sucessfully resume from hibernation. If the machine goes to sleep, it's getting cold booted, but only after it fails to come back up. (often after you beat on the keyboard and get zero response, nothing on the mouse and cliking the power button just leads to a cold boot)

Frankly, the OS would be better off without the entire concept. You could focus exclusively on the boot process instead of wasting time trying optimize a restart process that does not seem to work anywhere on the planet EXCEPT the MS campus (I assume it works there since you code for it)

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

barrkel — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:51:45 GMT

I wish you'd put more time putting e.g. XP-level features back into Windows 7, and less time on boot up.

The most useful thing the boot up procedure can do for me is print out what it is doing, so that when e.g. a driver crashes on startup, the reason and culprit is visible and the correct diagnostic approach is apparent. BIOS-level screen output would do.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Hairs — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 10:52:39 GMT

I honestly can't think of a less interesting topic for an "engineering" blog than "how the startup screen was designed".

Going back to my last post, any chance you'll explain to us why Microsoft decided not to bother changing the behaviour of their own apps like Calc and Paint so they don't get free silent elevation rights, contrary to the stated "Don't elevate code for no reason" mantra Win 7 is supposedly the forefront of?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Mantvydas — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 11:59:04 GMT

What was more annoying for me in the startup of the previous Windows (starting Windows 2000), is that it was completely black for too long. You can't understand then if computer is alive and is booting, or not. You have to show any kind of a sign of life after the POST, ALL the time.

Very strange, that it wasn't addressed in this blog post. Am I the only one having this problem?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Aleria — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:39:15 GMT

But what about animations for the actual hibernation process and hybrid sleep!?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Leo Davidson — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:39:28 GMT

On the subject of boot, I'd like to see improvements to hibernate and resume speed (assuming they haven't been done already; I haven't put Windows 7 on real hardware due to the beta expiry and inability to upgrade to RTM).

My new Vista laptop has 4gig of RAM and it takes ages to hibernate and resume, even when nothing much was running on the desktop.

If there's nothing running that I want to save then it's quicker to shut-down Windows and boot Windows from scratch when I come back.

I've actually been considering removing/disabling some of the laptop's memory so that it hibernates and resumes faster. I never do anything on it which needs 4 gig of RAM so all that extra memory is doing is slowing things down.

Anyway, it'd be nice if the OS realise that most of that RAM did not need to be written to disk for hibernation. I imagine most of the RAM is either empty of being used for things like a disk cache, neither of which make sense to write to the hibernation file. (I don't know what actually is/isn't written to the file but it seems like the full 4gig of RAM is dumped and then re-read every time.)

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Leo Davidson — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:48:19 GMT

@Mantvydas: On my Vista desktop, at first I didn't get the long period of blackness between Windows boot screens. Now I get it every boot.

I suspect that the screen goes black while Vista is loading device drivers and if some of the drivers take a long time to initialise then the screen can remain black for a long time.

I say that because it seemed to get worse as I installed more hardware, and I vaguely remember that it's not as bad if I plug my scanner in. (I suspect the scanner driver looks for the hardware until a timeout and holds things up if the hardware isn't there.) This is all just anecdotal guessing, though. It's never bothered me enough to want to delve into it in depth and find out for sure. (So long as the PC does boot I'm not *too* bothred!)

I agree that a completely black screen, which can last for tens of seconds sometimes (but also can be just a fraction of a second on other configurations) is not good. I used to wonder if the OS had crashed and was tempted to reset the PC many times. Now I know it's normal (for my PC at least) and I just have to wait a bit longer.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

ggreig — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:54:13 GMT

Most of the changes gkeramidas is complaining about don't bother me and I understand the need to keep things looking fresh.

But I second him all the way on "Invert Selection"; that's a useful - sometimes absolutely invaluable - little piece of functionality, and I definitely don't want to see it go. In fact, I'd like to see it get its own keyboard shortcut.

Please reinstate "Invert Selection" in Explorer's Edit menu.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Domenico — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 12:59:44 GMT

@Mr. Steven Sinofsky @Windows Team @Microsoft

I have last request in my feedback ,

I saw HP to create a Shell for the touch or Multitouch

I saw Asus create a Shell (cool) for Eee Touch

I am absolutely certain that competition is creating a shell full of Eye candy (like Mobile)

But.. we have Microsoft Surface shell (is windows Vista)

Is possible add Surface Shell in Windows 7 for multitouch function ?

Please give serious consideration to this possibility

Thank you

-Domenico

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

CasualReader — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:50:45 GMT

Thank god you changed the image used as the background for the login screen. In vista, it caused my eyes to start bleeding and had the additional benefit that it used to make we want to puke!!

It would be good if you let us change this screen anyway (without hacking about with system files).

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

d_e — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:38:27 GMT

Good work Karen! You made some good decisions IMHO. You should ask your boss to add more people to your team. There are many areas where Windows would benefit from your work.

Flickering and usability come to mind. Change some texts, add some graphics here and there.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

d_e — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:38:27 GMT

Good work Karen! You made some good decisions IMHO. You should ask your boss to add more people to your team. There are many areas where Windows would benefit from your work.

Flickering and usability come to mind. Change some texts, add some graphics here and there.

@ Xepol -

Anarchy — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:47:43 GMT

Re : http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/18/engineering-the-windows-7-boot-animation.aspx#9433374

My current office PC Dell Optiplex P4 3.0GHz is running bout 3 years without WinXP reinstall and resumes perfectly fine 98% of the time - and i'm talkin single digit seconds both ways and i reboot like once per week or every other week.

At home i have a Intel C2D on a nVidia Chipset running XP and a AMD Athlon X2 ona nVidia Chipset running the Win7 Beta - same here, hib/resume works perfectly ... even the lil AMD Sempron Linux server can finally do that too - and all of those are ready to use within single digit seconds after resuming.

You really need to check you BIOS and driver config because failing hib/resume is not what should be cosidered the norm.

-----

@ invert selection :

The Windows-Explorer is a sad excuse for a filemanager but removing functionality from a programm that barely has any is a bad idea, except if you want to fore users to get a 3rd party program.

What bout adding something useful the the explorer ? Like storing the user-set width of the filesystem tree, it's really annoying to resize it all the time.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

anonymuos — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:33:32 GMT

So you basically had to do two releases (Vista and then 7) to get it right and reduce transitions when XP has an awesome nicely fading in (though low quality) logo? If Vista absolutely had to had a posh branding experience, was it more important that boot time/startup performance? Very cool animation in 7 nonetheless. It's the pain caused due to long boot times (due to various reasons, one of them being this) during the Vista timeframe that hurt.

As far as size of the logo is concerned, it's still small IMHO, XP's logo size is perfect.

Also, why does the startup sound play in Windows 7 when explorer.exe is terminated and restarted?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

shellrevealed — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:47:27 GMT

That is so ridiculous! Invert selection gone I just realized that. Then again, the shell/Explorer has been countless mindless no-reason removals since Vista and 7 does nothing do bring them back. I still can't understand why the team loves pulling features that are being used by less number of users.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

shellrevealed — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:51:49 GMT

I beg MS to stop pulling features from the shell with every release. Windows 7 took away the Classic Start menu and Taskbar, Vista took away god knows how many features, hard to count.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

fluidphreak — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:32:00 GMT

I think the boot sequence went downhill from XP to Vista. As said above, XP has a very nice fading in logo.

Vista on the other hand first shows an almost empty screen with moving 'non-progress' bar, then the screen goes black for a few seconds. Suddenly it switches video mode, gets back and takes three seconds of my time running a useless animation with sound. Then another few seconds of black screen, followed by the login screen.

When updates have been installed, the screen regularly stays black for dozens of seconds during booting, which is absolutely inexcusable -- more often than not it makes me think the computer has crashed during booting so I am tempted to hard-reset it.

If Windows 7 just makes sure it always shows a 'sign of life' during booting, that would be much, much better. A working progress bar would be the icing on the cake.

Don't get me wrong, I love Vista, I just think the feedback during the boot process leaves a lot to be desired.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

pintel — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:37:18 GMT

I'm having weird problems with hibernation in Win7.

1) There is no message or progress bar when hibernating - just a black screen.

2) A second after the computer shuts down, it wakes up again and boot - I need to use the power button to shut it down (The duel booted XP doesn't have this problem) - this also happens when I try to put the computer to sleep.

3) When resuming from hibernation there is no logo or progress bar, just a black screen - until the desktop appears (auto login).

I don't know if it's related but my hardware is i7 920 CPU and a Gigabyte X58 motherboard with 3GB DDR3.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Tihiy — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:07:18 GMT

Windows 7 boot screen is extremely awesome.

It's a pity it's not okay with wide screens (which are, unfortunately, the home majority) and netbooks :(

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

rmegal — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:48:44 GMT

Fun post. It is neat to read about all of the work that goes into something that seems so trivial. Maybe it only seems trivial (to me) *because* of all the work that goes into it.

Nice job.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

JossB — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 21:12:46 GMT

This animation is much better than the previous one but I think there are still glitches in Win7 beta that would be nice to take care of : At the very end of the animation when the graphical subsystem and the desktop is loaded, I can see two glitches (that take probably no more than 50ms/100ms). These are very subtle but it makes the animation look like it is unstable. I guess this is related to changing screen resolution / color depth, but a full smooth end to end experience would really be nice to have on the next version of windows !

Wasted Effort

smartpatrol — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:44:16 GMT

Personally i miss the old Windows 95/98 static boot image. I could change it to be a picture of anything i wanted. Fuzzy windows logo pearls just don't get my motor running.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

wtroost — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:02:08 GMT

Just my 2c, I'd like an option where you can have a text-only boot, by pressing ctrl-alt during boot or something. One that shows in more detail what's happening.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

wtroost — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:02:08 GMT

Just my 2c, I'd like an option where you can have a text-only boot, by pressing ctrl-alt during boot or something. One that shows in more detail what's happening.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

yipcanjo — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:29:40 GMT

@ Xepol

Are you serious? I use hibernate *exclusively* on my (now ancient) P4 3.0ghz Dell Vista box. As someone else already mentioned, 'hibernate' should be the default setting. It boots faster (significantly), shuts down faster, and is useable more quickly. The 'hibernate' and 'sleep' features in Win7 also seem to work great on my Dell D630 laptop.

@ Karen

Unlike some others, I truly appreciate the time and effort put into streamlining the boot process animations (and technology therein). Watching animations and/or hearing sounds "stutter" during the boot or login is a real turn off.

Yip

Best you have ever done - Windows 7 Boot Animation

graham.lv — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:43:26 GMT

At 1st I thought, Oh God, don't let it be any star wars crap, or any space crap for that matter. NASA is after all founded on a captured Nazi! Go suck on that..

Then I though, NO, it's a clump of bugs hitting the windscreen! :-) or window!!!!

The Windows 7 Boot Animation is - THE BEST YOU HAVE EVER DONE - and although poo-pooed by nerds, is important to your retail customers.

GOOD WORK - I LIKE WATCHING IT ALL THE TIME...

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

AnubArack — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:14:40 GMT

Nicely done ... congrats on the rich graphical experience you give us at every boot/resume. The inner workings of the whole process is amazing

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

hitman721 — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 04:58:26 GMT

Considering how awful the Windows 2000 and XP start up was, I'm greatful for the changes in Windows 7. My Windows 7 startup doesn't falter nor does the sound stutter as some have suggested on my desktop. Then again I've got a dual core with top of the line DDR2 memory and SATA drives.

However, what do you expect from ancient machines? They were designed for a completely different era. They were designed for single core breaking the 1 Ghz barrier. Windows 7 and Vista was designed for the multi-core, 2 and 3 Ghz processors, terabyte drives, and solid state drives that are coming out. Thats like expecting a 1970 Camero to have the same fuel efficiency of a 2010 Chevy Volt!

Its time to retire some of these machines. Every machine has a retirement point. Where the cost of maintaining the machine outweighs investing in a new machine.

Great Job Windows team on the bootup screen. I suggest fine tuning the hibernate function, which works pretty darn well on my modern machine. I also want you guys to work on performance. We need to beat Linux and OS-X benchmark performance to show a real reason why you should upgrade.

As for taking out XP features, you can thank those idiots in the European Union and companies like Apple, Google, Opera, and others for stripping of features. Yet Opera, Google, and Apple get to bundle all they want, but not Microsoft. The only way to avoid further DOJ crackdowns and EU crackdowns is to strip features.

I think Microsoft should remove IE and WMP from Windows 7 and add them to the Windows Live Essentials suite. You could create a limited browsing function download manager to download the Windows Live Essentials or a competitors browser into Windows. You could make this feature available on installation or from the start menu. You can delete the shell of IE and WMP without damaging the OS.

Or an alternative would to create a delete function of IE and WMP in the Control Panel's Programs and Features Menu. Even if its just the shell, it would be a great way to compromise with anti-IE and WMP consumers.

So far, I've been very impressed with Windows 7. I just think the changes listed above will be a big PR boon to consumers and silence a lot of critics.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

tom5 — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:54:37 GMT

Make sure all the non-user-specific data is loaded before the username/password is entered to speed up the process of entering into the system. There's often a situation when you turn on the system and go somewhere for a while, Windows is loading, you come back and enter the pass and then you have to wait another while for the OS to finish loading and entering to the desktop(I know there is some user data that has to be loaded this way-after the pass is entered and you probably can't preload it... Maybe there could be a "default user" setting so Windows could know what to preload by default...?).

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

SvenC — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:33:39 GMT

I like the new boot animation.

But as I mostly use hibernate I would like some progress indicator for hibernate and resume. Having a blank screen immediately when hibernation starts to write content to the disk is a false sign for machine being already powered off.

When this was new to me, I even removed my laptops harddisk to swap in another boot disk while hibernation was still running - not that successful as you might expect. Now I always have to look carefully at my power and hd led.

If you are an MSDN or Technet subscriber, please vote on better hibernation progress:

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=404326&SiteID=647

You will have to register for Win7 connect access from your subscription home page:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/default.aspx

SvenC

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

SvenC — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:35:19 GMT

I also added a feedback item for the missing "Invert selection". Please vote here:

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=416563&SiteID=647

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

SvenC — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 12:35:21 GMT

I also added a feedback item for the missing "Invert selection". Please vote here:

https://connect.microsoft.com/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=416563&SiteID=647

SvenC

McoreD

McoreD — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:18:25 GMT

Thanks.

I figured this is the best place and time to ask this. My HTPC does not display Windows 7 animated boot logo and loads Vista style. What circumstances cause Windows 7 to not show the animated boot logo?

My HTPC is connected to HDTV via HDMI.

My specs:

VIERA TH-50PX70A 50" (127cm) HD Digital Plasma TV

Intel E8400 Core 2 Duo Processor - LGA775, 3.0GHz 6MB L2 Cache 1333Mhz FSB 45nm

Intel BLKDG45ID - INTEL G45/1333FSB/uATX/PCIEx16/VGA/GbLAN/DDR2/HDMI/DVI

Kingston KHX8500D2K2/4G - 4GB-kit 1066MHz DDR2 PC2-8500 CL5 (5-5-5-15) 240-Pin DIMM (Kit of 2)

Impressive boot logo, but not for hibernate

Syllopsium — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:38:17 GMT

I'm not too fussed about boot logos, however I'll admit Windows 7's is impressive and an improvement over Vista's where I always felt it should at least have *some* image on bootup.

Hibernate wise though, the combination of a 975X motherboard and two 7600GTs (i.e. pretty modern) still bluescreens on every restore for hibernate and has done since Vista GA through Windows 7 beta. This appears to be entirely due to Nvidia, though - the only BSODs I've seen are due to crashes in the Nvidia driver or crashes running games in Windows 7 (Neverwinter Nights 1 1.69 : PROCESS_HAS_LOCKED_PAGES BSOD. Again, probably Nvidia - seeing a pattern?).

Would it be unreasonable to expect a world where a WHQL driver release that consistently produces BSODs under reproducible error conditions should not permit future WHQL releases until each and every outstanding serious bug is fixed?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

someone — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:33:26 GMT

Change the "Starting Windows" text to "Microsoft Windows 7" with the logo above it and you've got a super-neat boot screen! Btw the logo is not that sharp even on my laptop LCD.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

sroussey — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:05:41 GMT

I agree with tom5 -- start preloading stuff that normally waits until after login while the login prompt is up. That part takes longer than booting, so I have to take two walks around the office when a machine boots. Thank God for Win7's sleep mode. But still...

The bootup looks nice, btw!

How about the Login Screen?

hauerwas@providence.edu — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:43:28 GMT

I appreciate the thought that's gone into the boot animation vis-a-vis load times for the O/S, and understand why the animation will not be user-customizable. However, under XP I used BGInfo:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897557.aspx

to write a screenshot of system info to the logged-out desktop (HKU/.DEFAULT/Control Panel/Desktop/Wallpaper), and no longer seem to be able to do that.

This was particular useful to me as the lab manager for a college, to identify NETBIOS names and MAC addresses as well as an envvar for "image build date" without having to log into a system.

Under Vista you could use procedures to "hack" this, but I would appreciate it if the BGInfo functionality could be "baked into" the O/S -- particularly since Russinovich now works for Microsoft.

On to other comments:

@SvenC, I agree -- there should be progress bars for hibernate and resume (and potentially the initial boot process). The progress bar gives you an indication of percentage completion.

@wtroost, Yeah, I think a text-only boot (that's not Safe Mode) would be useful.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

LuisAirMan — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:03:41 GMT

I'm from the old school. I think a text based boot proccess would be much better, as it gives you more feedback about what is really happenning.

I'd like to see something like this:

Microsoft Boot Manager

Loading \Windows\System32\config\SYSTEM

Loading \Windows\System32\config\SECURITY

Loading \Windows\System32\ntoskrnl.exe

...

Starting Microsoft Windows 7 [Version 6.1.7000]

Starting Session Manager Subsystem

Looks great on (relatively) big screens

egreene — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 19:36:57 GMT

I have to say, I really like the new animation. My only complaint is that it won't display on my MSI Wind (assumedly because it runs at 1024x600). I don't suppose the base size for the animation could be changed to 800x600 instead of 1024x768?

Great work, guys!

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

CRMMario — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:13:37 GMT

PLASE MAKE SOME IMPROVEMENT TO LOGON SCREEN, LIKE LONGHORN CONCEPT VIDEO, ACTUALLY IS SO UGLY AND SO SIMILAR TO VISTA, ONLY BACKGROUND CHANGED......

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

CRMMario — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:20:58 GMT

....ALL BOOT ANIMATION ARE AWESOME, BUT LOGON SCREEN I LIKE TO BE MORE DIFFERENT TO VISTA

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

manicmarc — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:37:49 GMT

I like the new screen. Little things like smooth transitions (fade outs, fade ins etc) help give an overall impression of a solid well polished product, so it's worth the effort in my opinion.

I agree with others here that hibernate should be the default option instead of shutdown. I asked myself "why do we shutdown anyway?" - in my case to apply updates (which is a restart, not a shutdown) or to add / remove hardware, which I do rarely. Logging off also saves a user's settings, and if on a domain, sends the user's registry hive to the domain controller's storage.

I think MS should be looking at ways to make a shutdown an extream rare occurrence. Offer normal shutdown (that actually hibernate) and a "maintenance shutdown) for when a user needs to add hardware.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Paradice — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 02:11:43 GMT

One problem with the boot: I have a dual monitor setup, and one monitor is shared with a second computer (using the low tech method of one plugged in via DVI, the other VGA). At the end of the boot process, just before the Login screen appears, the screen flashes black *just long enough* for the monitor to say "ahh, the DVI connection has been suspended" and it switches to the VGA output - I have to go into the monitor's OSD menu to switch it back. I didn't get that issue with Vista or XP.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Jalf — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 06:02:04 GMT

Speaking of boot, I just ran into a "feature" that'll probably make me revert to XP.

Windows 7, like Vista, prevents me from deleting the files installed in \Program Files.

Why would I want that?

Two answers:

1: I'm the user, it's not Microsoft's place to ask why. If I want to delete the boot loader, random Windows files or IE, that's my choice. Sure, warn me that this will render the system unusable, but don't magically make files undeletable. Sometimes, just sometimes, it is possible that the user knows best what to do in the current situation. Get used to it.

2: The files are not going to be used. I copied them to a folder on a separate partition, renamed the original \program files to program files.bak, and created a junction point from \program files pointing to the new folder. That leaves me with a "program files.bak" folder which is never going to be used, but which can NEVER be deleted, because Microsoft decided for me that THESE files are important. No they're not. The copy I made is important. That's why I made the copy.

Going back to the above point, I, the user, am in a situation that MS had obviously not predicted (gasp, a user wants to spread his programs across more than one partition. This is unprecedented). I don't have enough free disk space on my Win7 partition to keep more than Windows itself there. I don't want Program files to hog all the disk space on that partition. But apparently, Microsoft in its infinite wisdom has decided for me that this is the only solution imaginable. And they feel so strongly about it that no amount of admin priviliges will sort out the problem. Nor will changing ownership of the files, changing permissions on them or anything else, because these files are SPECIAL, and simply using the ordinary access rights mechanism is not good enough.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

steven_sinofsky — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 06:38:35 GMT

@Jalf -- the only thing that changed in Windows Vista and Windows 7 (if I understand your issue correctly) is that we secured the \program files directory via Administrative rights. You can certainly move/delete files.

However, it has always been risky to do so as most programs have dependencies on the absolute path to which they were installed. This information can be stored in the registry in keys private to the application or keys used across applications, or the information can be stored in settings files private to the application.

You can sometimes manually repair and tweak these sorts of things and there are many "how to" guides on the web, but by far the best thing to do is uninstall the program and then install it on another partition.

It is correct that for the shared items Windows installs, these are located in Program Files and cannot be moved.

That some of this worked in older windows is more coincidence than design. It would not have been a scenario we tested for or supported by design. That doesn't mean it isn't a good idea, but just not one we have done.

If you are that tight on %systemdrive% space it is not likely that you will be able to service the partition over time, have support for hibernation, or have many more user accounts.

I recognize your frustration and wish I had a better answer for this.

--Steven

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

faramond — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:50:31 GMT

I have to second returning "Invert Selection" to Explorer, even if it is off-topic. And the addition of a text boot mode, like Linux. I've spent far too many hours upgrading, downgrading, disabling and/or removing hardware and software to determine the causes of slow or stuck boots. (Logged boots do not always work--when the system locks up, the log files often don't get saved.)

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

marcinw — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 12:39:54 GMT

@Steven,

I have feeling, that current way of extending win32 architecture is going nowhere. I have even read in some places, that people started to name Seven as Vista+ (Vista + new problems). Sorry for irony, but:

1. you're receiving various comments about interface, fonts, DRM, speed and many times answer is: this is by design or this is cool in our opinion

2. you're receiving various comments about compatibility and more and more often we can see something like: our system is OK, change your apps

3. some comments about methods of distributing Seven were also ignored: no cheap upgrade for annoyed Vista users, no help for OEM customers, which are forced to delete all partitions during installing system, etc. etc.

I have read in one of blogs created by Microsoft employees (I can find it, if you want), that creating shutdown window in Windows 5.x required few teams and something near six months (I write it from memory, but numbers were big). And what ? You had to press additional Shift to be able to make Hibernation... Annoyed.

Now we can read, that you're giving a lot of resources for creating boot/shutdown animations. And what is result ? There is removed progress bar or ability of customizing it.

I'm sorry, but I have feeling, that nothing (I repeat: nothing) has been changed in your development methods since years. And you don't (want to) get, what is liked by your customers.

To be clear: problem of moving Program Files, many security/uninstall problems can be avoided, when you will use sandboxing. How many functions will have to be modified ? 20 ? And what programs will be affected ? Debuggers, antivirus ? Almost all of them will be changed from other reasons too. And compatibility problems (info, that you can't do it because of it) are only excuses.

Once again: Seven is a little faster in some places, but it's again worse than Windows 5.x. If you want to make customers happy, remove at least controversial parts (some DRM). Without it you will loose another parts of market...

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

barth2k — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:18:02 GMT

The boot screen is nice, but I second the request for a more informational text screen when you hold down some key.

Also, does anyone else dislike the logon screen? I guess the light streaming from heaven is supposed to be calming, but it reminds me of being underwater and drowning. In either case, I rather not have my logon screen be a memento mori. And I think both religious and non-believers alike may object to it, for opposite reasons.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

XeonG — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:59:59 GMT

the boot screen is shite.

who are these idiots taking out useful features and customization in favour of designing and offering nub shite instead?

I'm sick of it. and I ain't buying this junk!

Graphic engine revision

Saad — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 21:21:48 GMT

in my idea graphic engine of windows should take revision in next version of windows (after 7). because new graphic engine that started by Vista is some dark! XP is more natural and pleasurable.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

bobharvey — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 23:44:49 GMT

I'm sorry, but I thought this must have been a spoof entry.

Do you really think the most important problem is the animation that goes on when the machine starts? How about fixing some real problems instead?

How about the fact that windows explorer drag-and-drop copy is useless on a network - the slightest hiccough and it stops without telling you how far it has got. And why after all these years does it still not offer to skip existing files at the destination? Neither rsync nor robocopy are new ideas.

What about, if you are messing about with bootup, a simple way to monitor what is actually happening during bootup. If we could see what is making it hang up when there are booting problems that would make it so much easier to fix when things go wrong.

How about moving most of the startup stuff out of the user's login into the machine startup?

What about providing a 'location' option that includes selecting between DHCP and fixed IP addresses when booting, as well as just tiddling about with the dialling prefix for modems we don't use any more?

If you have all this spare programmer time, how about counting how many times the desktop is painted and the icons re-drawn between logging in and being able to do something, and eliminating all that unecessary duplication of system calls.

Or arranging that, at startup, start menu navigation is not cancelled just because some 3rd party application has added something to the system tray, forcing me to start again.

How about a logout option that snapshots the applications and windows in use, and re-opens them in exactly the same state next time you login in?

For heaven's sake, there a thousand important things you could be doing to speed up the system and make it smaller instead of tiddling about with screen candy. That screen with the light shining from the top left hand screen looks like some 19th century sunday school print of the annunciation. Are you really so self-obsessed that you see an operating system in divine terms?

This posting is really, really annoying. Because it is so ignorant about what the real user finds frustrating.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

manicmarc — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 15:35:29 GMT

bobharveym if you find this blog annoying then I suggest you stop reading it. I find it very interesting.

By writing about the boot screen, it doesn't mean it got priority over other issues. Although if you've read this blog much you'll know that boot performance was a major priory for the W7 team. If you've read this post then you'll also know the new screen improves actual boot time, and I've no doubt it improves perceived boot time too.

I don't think this blog is aimed that those who have no idea about software engineering process. Some of the suggestions posted here are so short sighted and cazy. Read http://blogs.msdn.com/kamvedbrat/archive/2005/10/01/476160.aspx and maybe learn something about why you can't have it all your way.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Eghost — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:39:26 GMT

@Karen

"shown a great many “personalization” elements "

Now that's funny. Microsoft actually thinks that changing colors is "personalization". With old windows xp you could truly personalize your system. Move and or combine, "tool bars, menu bars, icon bars, address bars." Yes there was no command bar, it was called an icon bar and had icons instead of words. Just give back that ability, of course Microsoft won't. Why as someone stated in a past blog, "it's too hard for Microsoft tec-support how to direct customers to fix windows problems when they change the UI to much. Be that as it may, yea I like the new bot up screen, WOW. Is it really that note worthy to devote an entire blog on it? In my opinion, "NO". Steve, how about a blog on "how can we improve?" specific parts of Windows. Like how can we improve the "task bar" or "UI" or "security", Installation? Instead of telling "how we did this any why" Just follow, industry standard training or learning by asking, "open ended questions". That's when this blog will truly become feed back, instead of Microsoft just tooting it's own horn and saying, look "We're wonderful and you should love us". "harsh words", I know but I've been following this blog since it beginning and, Microsoft still ignores the, "Tough" questions".

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Eghost — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 16:44:09 GMT

@manicmarc

Like it or not, "bobharvey" has valid points. Yea you can't have everything your way but, Microsoft need to understand that. The problem since the early incarnations of "Vista" is Microsoft wants too much control. The want to dictate every thing. That's a major problem, and that's one of the main reasons why Vista failed.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

marcinw — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:15:55 GMT

@manicmarc,

I think, that generally everybody is liking nice looking things. And from one hand it's good, that team is thinking about it.

But from the other hand, "bobharvey" has valid points - Microsoft has got many more important problems for resolving than "wrong" startup animation and customers would be more happy from system giving them really innovating features (even when it will have "old" animation).

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

NONAME00.CPP — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 07:41:50 GMT

In my opinion, bobharvey is either a troll or someone with limited imagination.

Just because there is a blog article about MS adding a bit of eye candy to the bootup doesn't mean that the "more important" tasks (according to bobharvey) are being ignored. Apparently multiple people working on multiple things is new to bobharvey.

Also, apparently, bobharvey is incapable of understanding specialization. People working on the bootscreen/bootup are most likely never going to work on the kernel , shell, etc. So if there is nothing to do, then they do nothing.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

LDragon — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 17:22:31 GMT

Rather surprised at the animosity some show towards a post about the retooled boot screen. Regardless of whether or not I like what it looks like, the technical details of how it is displayed and why it's done the way it's done are interesting. People seem to think that each discussion point mentioned on this blog is the only thing MS is working on at any given time; that everything is currently, in this case, taking a back seat to the boot logo. Yup, got the whole crew out there in Redmond hammering out a boot animation, everything else is on hold...

Anyhow, I particularly like that MS is subtly pushing hardware manufacturers towards supporting certain things (like higher resolutions) without requiring the device driver. For too many years we floundered at 640x480, and have only recently worked up to 800x600 as a realistic "default resolution." I'm not a big fan of requiring new tech unnecessarily, but to push for wider acceptance, even if it's in the form of such a small thing as the boot animation, is often a good thing.

Thanks.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

timjb — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 19:12:39 GMT

> As a result, we saved the time it takes to

> play this animation after boot is complete.

I may have misunderstood this, but the implication is that Vista has a non-functional delay baked right into its boot sequence. Is this so? I'm incredulous.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

kmenzel — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:57:28 GMT

I think it's too bad that there isn't a way for the user to add a flag to set the boot screen to the native resolution of the display - obviously there needs to be a sane default value, but it would be fantastic if there was the ability to set a flag in the boot loader if the user happens to know that a certain resolution is valid...

bobharvey and timjb make some good points

Hairs — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:51:29 GMT

But I think that, as far as Win7 is concerned, it's at "stick a fork in it" stage. RC1 is going to be April 10th and from the beginning we've been told that the beta would be "feature complete". Win7 has great pre-publicity and word of mouth, and Marketing is going to run with it, whether that's good for the OS or not - pointless "innumerable versions" and all.

Basically, if what you're concerned about wasn't addressed in the public beta, it ain't getting done. Not ever. Wait for the next version (or move platforms). The work now is on polishing, driver support and bug fixing. Steven has said very clearly that the Win7 team was intent on not "breaking stuff" like Vista did. I wonder if the internal conclusion in Microsoft is that Vista didn't get picked up because they "broke" stuff, and that the solution is not to break anything.

I don't think that's a solution at all. The problem was not that Vista broke the old ways of doing things (like audio), it's that it didn't replace it with a *working* version - usually because of lazy 3rd party drivers. If you're going to break something, break it because it needs to be and make sure you get the replacement well supported. There's "under the hood" stuff that's effectively broken already but is needed for legacy support. At some point, you have to accept that people with very old legacy systems probably aren't upgrading their OS.

@steven_sinofsky the point about the OS partition was well made - telling the user they should just suck it up and give over as much space as the OS decides it needs is counter-productive. If you let it, program installs, temp files, hiberfiles, pagefiles, user-specific docs folders etc will eat all the space you throw at them. That's not because of necessity but because of lazy coding - not necessarily Microsoft's lazy coding, but that's the installation model they've promoted. Personally, I hate that some games (or other apps) I install insist on shovelling hundreds of megs of profile or setup data into my User directory, instead of the directory I've installed them into, and break if I attempt to move them - there's absolutely no valid reason for that. I see no reason why Windows can't be told where I want a "Program files" directory to be stored, or a "My documents and associated file subtypes" directory for that matter, and leave the routing of application calls up to the OS. If a 3rd party developer is too lazy to recode for the new model, then *they deserve to lose sales to someone who will*.

The more I read this blog, the more the message comes through to me over and over from the comments:

"Dear OS, OEMs and Lazy Devs: Stop telling me how to use my computer."

There's a recession on. Time to start listening to the consumer. Otherwise, they'll move on.

Personalisation

Mike43110 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 00:51:27 GMT

Regarding personalisation, WMP12 could use a bit of it. The bright white of it actually gives me a headache and puts me off using it. The people in my area all like win7 but WMP12 is not liked as much, the improvements are nice, but wmp11 in xp had a much nicer colour scheme, and it could be changed if wanted.

Thank You

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

adir1 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:18:01 GMT

I like boot animation, and welcome the technical bits and pieces provided -- Please do more of those.

Specifically regarding animation -- With modern cpu's being so fast, why even save anything to disk or create any "frames"!? Why not go old-school and just animate based on some Math algorithms with a bit extra trajectory data (like the WMP music visualizations)? You can easily animate bigger part of screen, make it dynamic (not resolution specific, so works on Netbooks), etc.

Plus even faster bootup!

Just saying...

PS: To all the people who say "We want Linux type of startup - Loading module X...", it's a startup option that always existed, USE IT, anyhow it's only designed for Geeks like us, not any regular Windows users

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Kosher — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 02:12:50 GMT

Does anyone else get that taste of stale soda when they take a sip of the new loading animation?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Aengeln — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:50:10 GMT

adir, how would you go about activiting the Linux-style startup?

--A

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

kmenzel — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:09:12 GMT

@Aengeln

One of the easier ways of doing it would be to download EasyBCD (from http://neosmart.net/dl.php?id=1) to set the SOS flag, or use the documented method found at http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa906211.aspx.

At least, I think that's what adir1 is talking about...

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

kmenzel — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:20:06 GMT

However - having just tried this in Windows 7 for the first time (it was my default in the early days of Vista so I could figure out which drivers were causing my computer to boot slowly), the functionality seems broken - it appears to do a slow redraw of the screen for every line of text displayed (I can see the cursor actually flow across the screen 1 character at a time... like I'm running a 386 with the turbo button off).

It seems to have increased my overall boot time with this flag on, so I don't think that at least in build 7000, it's recommended, though mileage may vary?

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

Domenico — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:04:49 GMT

Hey mr. Steven

Pls new post :D

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

har0ld — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 01:56:48 GMT

Please add the new logo to the taskbar, the Vista pearl is really not working with it.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

DWalker — Thu, 26 Feb 2009 06:05:46 GMT

To those who ask for Windows "start preloading stuff that normally waits until after login"...

Um, did you ever stop to think that some of it might depend on WHICH user is logging in? Some of it can't be preloaded until Windows knows just who is logging in.

At least, I hope and expect that everything that can be preloaded before the user logs in, is loaded.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

sroussey — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 02:36:54 GMT

@DWalker: It can use a heuristic -- for example, there is just one user on my machine. It can't auto-login for security reasons. But just one user -- which is very very typical. I have a fast quad core machine and the CPU usage is very low while I wait (and wait and wait) for things to load. Even with a striped raid disk. :(

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

hauerwas@providence.edu — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 18:21:46 GMT

I haven't kept up with the thread re: animation, but it seems that no-one picked up my comment on BGInfo and the logged-out screen. Fortunately, however, it looks like the logged-out screen will be editable by OEM's (and admins) according to the following post:

http://www.withinwindows.com/2009/03/15/windows-7-to-officially-support-logon-ui-background-customization/

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

EndUser — Sun, 05 Apr 2009 11:42:36 GMT

I see a lot of negative comments about this particular subject. Just wanted to add in, how the animation still makes me smile everytime I boot. Considering the world we live in, I believe it counts :)

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

DasFox — Tue, 05 May 2009 01:44:20 GMT

A picture speaks a thousand words, yep that was written here in reference to the wallpaper pictures. But what everyone should be asking themselves is what thousand words are people going to be speaking when they see Windows 7 looking much like Vista?

Windows 7 should of had it's own look, very disappointing to see this! :(

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

DasFox — Tue, 05 May 2009 01:53:29 GMT

Vista pearl, can I say YUCK on the start menu, really bad choice all the way!

In fact all the Windows 7 icons look bad. Windows 7 needs new icons and a new GUI look too.

Eyecandy is cool, BUT I want performance and productivity and if I'm going to get Eyecandy I want something different then what I had before and Windows 7 RC just looks like a Vista update. I don't want an update I want a new fresh look, 100% differnt.

No 100% fresh look, this is going to be WIndows 7's downfall!

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

online slots — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 14:07:57 GMT

Microsoft has definitely opened up a few doors for personalizing Windows 7 compared to Windows Vista, but the software giant recently gave some news that many customizers and tweakers will not enjoy. Only two months ago the boot screen for Windows 7 leaked, and everyone was trying to confirm whether it was real or fake.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

ashishpingle — Mon, 20 Jul 2009 11:58:54 GMT

The only feature that I am missing in Windows 7 is an Optimized Desktop Sidebar for Windows 7. Even though Aero Peek feature is given it's bit cumbersome to go frequently and check the gadgets status. The Sidebar feature works best when we have a wide-screen as we have a lot of space for all that stuff. I generally avoid using third-party apps as the things that come with OS work as a part of it and are quite efficient. Anyways instead of changing system files with the Vista sidebar. I would prefer going for third-party app to keep the system stable.

re: Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

mcnaugha — Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:54:41 GMT

Sorry Microsoft but I have say I think you've made another embarrassing faux pas with a decision which isn't 'modern' enough. By choosing 768 you have locked out several modern types of display. One of them is an HDTV that combined with certain video cards results in a boot resolution of 720p. At worst I would have expected you to support 720p for the new animation. I was very disappointed to see the short-sightedness of the decision to go with 768. It's like being stuck in a time warp. It's not 1999 anymore. It's 2009! You can hardly buy a screen which is not widescreen these days. It's just stupid. Reminds me of the choice to not allow independent muting in Media Center. Just ignorant and completely against the 'without walls' philosophy that Microsoft marketing is punting.

There should be a registry key or other way of allowing people to adjust this. Alternatively there should have been a piece of code which detects the pre-video driver resolution during setup and then adjusts the final resulting boot animation resolution limits. I am so annoyed.

I really hope you guys get your act together and either publish a support KB which tells us how to fix or release an update which opens the new boot animation up to more modern/current display technologies.

Engineering the Windows 7 Boot Animation

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@ Xepol -

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Wasted Effort

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Best you have ever done - Windows 7 Boot Animation

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McoreD

Impressive boot logo, but not for hibernate

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How about the Login Screen?

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Looks great on (relatively) big screens

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Graphic engine revision

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bobharvey and timjb make some good points

Personalisation

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Other design problems in Windows

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