App Building

re: App Building

Mark Pitman — Thu, 06 May 2004 04:48:00 GMT

Sounds like fun! I don't know what I'm looking forward to more, the new features in .NET 2.0(like generics) or the new features in Visual Studio 2005! Lucky for us, we'll get both at the same time.

Heads Down Coding

Markyologist — Thu, 06 May 2004 07:57:00 GMT

re: App Building

Luc Cluitmans — Thu, 06 May 2004 08:17:00 GMT

I have always been wondering what MS considered to be 'real' applications. From the things you read articles about, it seems that Microsoft's idea of 'real applications' is rather different than what I use the .NET framework for.

I'm happy you mention some items that I can relate to in my line of work, like your GPS tracking tool and your graphing control. You thereby imply that you are testing whidbey for the kind of things I would like to use it for...

I use the .NET framework mostly for stand-alone winforms applications and console applications, typically involving some kind of signal processing / visualisation / data conversion, and the .NET framework is very useful for implementing those tasks.

I don't use any client-server-related stuff, so IMHO, the name '.NET' is simply a marketing blunder in the same category as Borland pushing Delphi as a 'database user interface design tool' when delphi was new. Yes, you can write all sides of client-server applications with .NET, and yes, Delphi was great for writing 'database user interface' design, but that only highlights a part of their use, and exactly the use that I am NOT interested in ...

re: App Building

thomas woelfer — Thu, 06 May 2004 09:48:00 GMT

Eric,

>> where we spend time using the product to write real apps.

well, it appears your idea of a real app is either way apart from mine, or you guys are working really really really fast. i mean, _really_ fast. ;-)

if i could write a real app in 3 days, i'd have finished 300 'real' apps in the time it took me to write the one real app i'm currenty working on... and its still not finished. :-)

WM_SMILE
thomas woelfer

re: App Building

Cronan — Thu, 06 May 2004 10:11:00 GMT

Do any of you guys have previous experience with refactoring tools?

re: App Building

dom — Thu, 06 May 2004 11:20:00 GMT

I agree with Thomas; cool as it is that you guys do this stuff, I think that it could all too easily become lip-service to the idea of dogfooding.

Hire a couple of good devs to write FULL TIME on your compilers, FULL TIME projects, over months and years, not days.

That will give you a very different flavour then a few days coding.

re: App Building

M. Keith Warren — Thu, 06 May 2004 15:42:00 GMT

Hey, if you guys are looking for apps to build, I can give you some work! I need a vacation.

re: App Building

Mark Pitman — Thu, 06 May 2004 16:24:00 GMT

From what I understand, MS already has a group that uses all this technology. I believe it is called CIT or "Commercial IT". This group does projects for internal customers like e-commerce stuff and they use the next generation technologies that people like Eric are working on. Of course, this is something I have heard 2nd-hand, so I may not be absolutely correct on the details.

re: App Building

Michael Giagnocavo — Thu, 06 May 2004 17:18:00 GMT

Hi Eric,

You say "Intellisense is bothering me less (in early Whidbey versions it was a little too aggressive about coming up)".

Does this mean less than Whidbey March 2004 CTP? I *love* how it works in that release (the first alpha didn't seem to be that amazing with Intellisense) -- it comes up for keywords and everything, all without ctrl-space! I really hope they leave it like that.

re: App Building

Phil — Thu, 06 May 2004 22:27:00 GMT

I agree with earlier posts, another team (maybe part of the test team) should be continually building (or trying to build) real applications with your development tools. The only problem is that a real application (like Outlook) takes months to write, and this is assuming that the development tools have already been built and tested. So we have a chicken/egg problem...

re: App Building

Aditya — Fri, 07 May 2004 00:28:00 GMT

care to share what other pepole on the team are writing?

re: App Building

Dave — Fri, 07 May 2004 15:25:00 GMT

I think the point of the app building _for developers_ is not about finding bugs - they've got dedicated testers. It's about giving the developers some insight about the software they are writing, in the hope that it'll help them write it better.

It's one thing to create an API, but quite another to use it.

And bug reports from some black-box tester team can be less than revealing.

New Whidbey Build at TechEd

Sam Gentile's Blog — Sat, 08 May 2004 03:52:00 GMT

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Eric Gunnerson s C Compendium App Building | Wood TV Stand

Eric Gunnerson s C Compendium App Building | Wood TV Stand — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 02:10:04 GMT

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