Welcome to MSDN Blogs Sign in | Join | Help

Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

First, I would like to thank everyone that provided feedback on our PivotTable questions – there were many helpful comments.  I will see if I can get a member of the PivotTable team to post a reply sometime this week.

Second, last week Microsoft announced the creation of an “Open XML Translator project” that will help translate between the Office Open XML formats (the new file formats in Office 2007) and the OpenDocument format (which is a specification developed by the open source community).  Specifically, the project will create tools to make it possible for Microsoft Office to save and work with files using the Open Document format.  The basic idea is that after downloading these tools, users will have the ability to save to and open ODF files directly within Office (just like any other format).  One goal of this effort is that these tools will also work in current versions of Office (this is possible because the tools the project is building take advantage of our Open XML file format, and we're providing updates to current versions of Office that allow them to read and write Open XML).

The project is open source and is located on SourceForge, so those interested can see exactly how everything works.

For those looking for more information, here are a couple of sources ... Brian Jones’ file format blog, the Microsoft press release, and the BBC.

Third, I wanted to address a few of the comments that came up in recent posts.

Paul Morriss  wrote “The reason I'm commenting is because despite all the good things that have been added in, I really miss a feature that's been taken away.  It's the auto filter - show blanks or show non-blanks. I know it can be done with four clicks, but I would like those two options to be on the menu when you first click, thus saving two clicks.”  Paul, this is back in current builds, so it will be there when we ship.

Tim made a comment with respect to chart performance.  This is an area we have been working on since the public beta was released.  There will be a beta refresh before we release for real, so I would encourage everyone to take another look then.  I think you will see some significant improvements.

John Rylander asked about using a different compression routine (other than ZIP) for our file format.  Sorry John, not this time.

Francis, thanks for the ALT + SHIFT + INS suggestion.  I will pass it along, but no promises at this point.  Ditto your suggestion wrt the macros dialog.

Anonymous asked “why doesn't Excel just disable most of it's UI and run the macros on a separate thread, instead of running them in the main thread like it's 1987 again?”  The answer is the way that VBA is integrated into Office.

Mike Staunton asked “Does this affect just macros or will it freeze for all my user-defined functions - if so, I'll retrofit Windows 2000!”  The answer is any VBA, and I think you will find a similar “not responding” in the title bar on any version of Windows.

SR, I passed on your list of  charting ideas to the chart team.

Sam, what I mentioned by “recently noticed” was the frosting.  We were aware of the general behaviour.  And by recently, I mean this calendar year.  I am a bit behind on my blog posts.

Published Monday, July 10, 2006 9:26 AM by David Gainer

Comments

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Monday, July 10, 2006 2:02 PM by XL-Dennis
David,

First of all, thanks for continuing to update this blog on a regular basis.

Second, I would like to know when You plan to release the first version of Office 2007 PIA.

Kind regards,
Dennis

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Monday, July 10, 2006 3:08 PM by Harlan Grove
Re ODF: so some big governments insisted, did they? BTW, have you seen Groklaw today, specifically,

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060709143240795

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Monday, July 10, 2006 8:56 PM by Spence Lloyd
It seems like you may have left out one of the most useful (to me) of Excel shortcuts--reversing the effect of a shortcut key by pressing shift-click.  For example, shift clicking the print key in 2003 does a print preview.  Shift clicking sort ascending does a sort descending, etc.  Please tell me these will be in the final version!  

-sdl-

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 4:58 AM by Nigel Harper
Dave,

After having played around with the Beta for a month now I am getting comfortable with it, except for one thing:  The charting tool.  After reinstalling (twice) this remains virtually unusable.  It is slow (massively resource intensive), unstable (Excel routinely freezes up and dies), displays inconsistent and interfering behaviour (e.g. deleting a chart does not always get rid of the underlying shape object, or causes Excel to go into a refresh seizure; deleting, copying and pasting charts appears to interact with other shape objects by causing them to disappear), and, again, slooooow.  I see you have responded to Tim who mentioned some issues previously, but I am simply wanting to reiterate it.

The other comment I have heard from traders that pass my desk and whom I know to be big keyboard users is about the size of the ribbon.  If the ribbon has to stay on in order to facilitate keyboard access I think that there ought to be a way to minimise many of the new 'big' icons and perhaps the font size.  Also, the horizontal size of the spacing above, below and between the rows of buttons in, for example, the Home/Font section could be decreased and a further 5mm is taken up by the Clipboard, Font, Alignment, Number etc section titles.
I understand that many of the new features are to facilitate newbies and/or light-users by helping them get to the traditional power features more quickly but there area a great many power-users out there who don't require that sort of assistance and who will find the 'all singing, all dancing glitz and glamour' approach merely annoying.  In fact, many of the people I work with display only the menu bar and use either it or shortcuts to navigate their way around.

Thanks though for the continuing excellent blog and effort.  Nigel.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 8:44 AM by Francis
Nigel, users can press CTRL+F1 to hide the ribbon. Unfortunately, after the user chooses a command, the ribbon remains visible (instead of hiding again.)

I think a greater problem is the keyboard model. It needs work:

1. The shortcuts are often too long (e.g. ALT+H, Y, 1, S to toggle to Datasheet View from Design View in Access)
2. The shortcuts are not memorable (same example)
3. Every time I want to execute a command on the Home tab, even when the tab on top, I have to preface the command I want with ALT+H to "re-activate" the Home tab. This is counterintuitive and repetitive (think RSI.)

It should be possible to assign every command on-screen, including ribbon tabs, a distinct ALT+one key or ALT+SHIFT+one key accelerator.

By my count, the maximum number of ALTable interface elements on the screen at once is 56 (Word 2007: 42 on Home tab, 7 default tabs + 1 developer tab + 3 contextual tabs, 2 control menus, 1 file menu, QAT excluded.) The keyboard has 64 distinct characters (26 letters, 10 digits, and 9 punctuation marks, and 19 SHIFTed punctuation marks.)

If that is too tight, all the tabs could be invoked via ALT+modifier+letter, freeing up more keys for the active tab. Or the F-keys could be reassigned to the tabs (F1=Home, F2=Insert, etc. to F12=Help), eliminating the need for ALTing ribbon items.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 10:38 AM by Biff
Francis, when you add a button or chunk to QAT it automatically gets Alt+number(s) shortcut. Additionally there is a huge number of short shortcuts (pun intended) for highly (and not so highly) used commands - 218 by David's last count.

Harlan, is there a point in perpetuating Groklaw propaganda? The code in question came from David’s book, which did not bear LGPL or any other license. It was included in the plugin in the usual matter for book citations – with a reference to the source, and the author holds no grudge.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 11:43 AM by Air_Cooled_Nut
I agree with Nigel's second point:  The ability to reduce the size of that ribbon bar!  I use a 19" monitor and my video is set to 1280x1024 and I still find myself wishing for more screen real estate (going to a larger video size reduces the text too much and the DPI setting doesn't always work well).  Windows does a good job at allowing user customization -- not allowing such functionality to the ribbon seems anti-Windows!

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:03 PM by patricksmith
Dennis,

I assume that you are talking about the 2007 PIA Redist.  That package will be a web download and will be available in the RTM timeframe.  Also, the PIA's will be shipped in the product and installed with the application by default as long as .NET Framework 1.1 or higher is on the machine.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 1:59 PM by David Gainer
XL-Dennis, someone from the Office Programmability team will post a reply to your PIA question in the next day or so.

Spence, unfortunately, no, those items are not part of the new Ribbon interface.

Nigel, Francis, Biff, Air Cooled Nut, thanks for your comments about the ribbon.  A couple of points – you can collapse the ribbon (as Francis pointed out, CTRL+F1 or just clicking on the tab a second time), and since the public beta shipped, we have made the ribbon “behave” better once collapsed – for example, when you use keyboard shortcuts, it doesn’t pop open and stay there.  I personally use keyboard shortcuts for most things in Excel, and between those and some commands I have added to the QAT, I find I rarely expand the ribbon.  Check it out in the beta refresh and let us know what you think.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:19 PM by Harlan Grove
Biff, couldn't help it given MSFT assertions up to a few months ago that ODF support was out of the question and unnecessary besides. And if MSFT got the code from the book rather than from web sites, then it's bound by the GNU Free Documentation License rather than the LGPL and/or Apache licenses. MSFT is releasing their derivative work under a BSD license, so it remains open, which may be why Eisenberg has no problem with this at this time. But it's unclear at best whether the BSD license applies to Eisenberg's code.

As for other comments re keyboard shortcuts, for the most part XL11 keystroke combinations and sequences still work (other than a few annoyances with [Alt]+W now pulling up the new View tab in the ribbon rather than providing a conduit to the XL11 Window menu commands). Since it's possible to remap Excel's keyboard using .OnKey and .SendKeys, Excel could be as customizable as EMACS. It'd become a support nightmare if everyone did that, but it's possible for those who want the keyboard fully personalized.

Much the bigger PITA is the ribbon's inability to autocollapse. [Ctrl]+[F1] is useful (and may become the single most used shortcut), but it should be possible for the ribbon to behave like a menu, automatically collapsing when not in use. And it'd be nice if there were an Excel object model method or property corresponding to collapsing or expanding the ribbon.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:00 PM by David Gainer
Harlan, all the legacy "Window" commands are on the View tab now.  For the most part, typing the old accelerators should “just work”.  With regards to Ribbon autocollapse, the behaviour will be better in the beta refresh, but you will still need to manually close the ribbon when you do not need it.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:09 PM by XL-Dennis
Patrick,

Thanks for Your answer.

As it is now when we develop Managed COM add-in we can only use one pecific version of PIA (Either 2002 or 2003 but not both). Will it be any change in the future so that we can refer to 2007 PIA and they can be used for the next version(s) as well?

(COM add-in in classic VB offer a flexible approach as we can choose the lowest version the add-in can be used in.)


Kind regards,
Dennis

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Tuesday, July 11, 2006 6:53 PM by patricksmith
Dennis,

With 2007, we are putting publisher policy in place so that a binding redirect occurs when you run code compiled against the 2003 PIA.  This is our strategy going forward to establish the 2003 PIA as a baseline so that you can write against 2003 and expect your code to continue to run against 2007.

Patrick

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 3:16 AM by Brutus
Harlan, did you bother to read the comments to that Groklaw FUD-piece?

<quote>
Microsoft did not grab anything
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 10 2006 @ 08:55 AM EDT
I am the project leader of the "ODF Add-in for Word 2007" project. I
would like to make something clear: the project is not hold by Microsoft, it is
the "property" (if one can talk of property with an open source
project) of Clever Age, a french IT services company.

We did not intend to "steal" anything to anyone, we just reused a
portion of code from the book "OASIS OpenDocument Essentials" from J.
David Eisenberg and mentioned the original author's name in our code (sorry for
the mispelling, it will be fixed very soon). There was no license given for the
code exemples in the book, so we thought mentioning the author would be enough.
But there won't be any problem with adding a mention of the original license or
so if needed.

As a reminder, this project is an Open Source project, and we would be very
pleased to see developers joining the team and help us improving the converter.
We chose a BSD-like license in order to allow anybody reusing it and doing
whatever he wants with it. For instance, there won't be anything preventing from
using the XSL transforms in OpenOffice to open and save docx files.

I'd like to add that as soon as I heard of this issus, I sent an e-mail to J.
David Eisenberg to have his opinion on it, and I am still waiting for his
answer.

I hope that will make things clearer. Best regards,

Jean Goffinet
</quote>


And then:
<quote>
Microsoft did not grab anything
Authored by: Anonymous on Monday, July 10 2006 @ 12:07 PM EDT
I finally got J. David Eisenberg's agreement, so apologies to everyone
(especially to him!) who was bothered by this issue. David's name has been fixed
in the SVN repo
(http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/odf-converter/trunk/source/OdfConverterL
ib/resources/document.xsl).

And once more, don't blame Microsoft for this, they only sponsor this project
and are not involved in the dev (for now, Clever Age is supporting all the devs,
but we expect others to join the effort very soon).

Best regards,

Jean Goffinet
</quote>


Harlan, I know you jump at any opportunity to bash Microsoft, but you should at least check the facts first.

# re: Thanks For Your Help, Open XML Translator (ODF Support For Office), Comments

Wednesday, July 12, 2006 5:14 AM by XL-Dennis
Patrick,

Great! I can now clear this from my wish list.

Kind regards,
Dennis

# Excel 2007 charting UX design

Friday, July 14, 2006 6:31 AM by Alex Barnett blog
Sander Viegers is a user experience (UX) designer in the Office Design Group who contributed to Excel...
New Comments to this post are disabled
 
Page view tracker