All About File Formats

re: All About File Formats

Chris Nokleberg — Thu, 20 Jul 2006 16:31:44 GMT

Will you be documenting the binary formats?

re: All About File Formats

David Gainer — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 00:46:36 GMT

Chris, yes they will be documented.

re: All About File Formats

Colin Banfield — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:20:38 GMT

Dave,

From what I've seen so far, the Compatibility Checker appears to be well implemented. However, I've come across one annoying compatibility issue related to data imported from an external database. It goes like this: Open an existing .xls file. On a new worksheet, import data into an Excel Table. Use the Table name in a lookup formula on another sheet. Save the file (still in .xls format). Reopen the file in Excel 2007. The lookup formulas are all blown to sh*t. Open the file in Excel 2003. The formulas are there, the Table is converted to a QueryTable but now the lookup reference is converted to a static range reference.

The behavior that should occur: After reopening the .xls file in Excel 2007, the lookup formulas should be intact (perhaps this bug is already fixed in the latest refresh). After opening the file in Excel 2003 (or earlier), the original workbook scoped Table name should be converted to a worksheet scoped QueryTable name, so that the lookup formula still refers to a name reference - just as nature intended. I guess that nobody thought that an imported Table or QueryTable would ever to used in lookup formulas, otherwise they would have recognized the folly in the current design.

re: All About File Formats

Francis — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 02:29:49 GMT

2 questions:
1. Will other formats used by MS Excel also be documented? I am thinking of SYLK in particular. I run into compatibility problems importing Excel SYLK files into other programs. Perhaps missing documentation is the cause? From what I have read, Excel's implementation of SYLK is undocumented. I have found no documentation for it on the MS/MSDN web site. The format may be ancient, but these formats will stay relevant, at least for the couple of years it will take non-MS software to support OpenXML.
2. Why is XLM still in Excel? VBA superseded it in 1993. It seems like unnecessary--and potentially dangerous--baggage. Do customers still use it?

re: All About File Formats

David Gainer — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 03:43:49 GMT

Colin, thanks for the great feedback. Couple of points. We need to convert Structured refrences (Table1[Column3]) to range references (a2:a77) on save as XLS, because we do not know what version of Excel the XLS file will be opened in, and current versions of Excel would not know what to do with them. The QueryTable name is something we thought about, but there again things are a bit problematic. The QueryTable name we generate is the entire QuerTable, where as the default references created when you are using Tables in 2007 include only the data portion of the table (not the header or total rows).

Francis, we don't currently have plans to document SYLK files, though I will mention your post to the folks that own this area. With regards to XLM, it is simply a matter of backwards compatibility. Many many companies today still have solutions that contain some XLM and who have no desire to have to re-develop those solutions.

re: All About File Formats

Colin Banfield — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 05:09:06 GMT

<<We need to convert Structured refrences (Table1[Column3]) to range references (a2:a77) on save as XLS, because we do not know what version of Excel the XLS file will be opened in, and current versions of Excel would not know what to do with them.<<

Very true. For backward compatibility sake, it might have been wise to provide an option to import into a worksheet range (as a QueryTable). As it is, you're forced to choose between a Table and a PivotTable, even if you don't want to import into either.

re: All About File Formats

Dave — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 10:11:19 GMT

David, If I save a file containing 2007 features in XLS format, I understand that a 2003 user can open the file but will not have the new features available.

If that user makes a change and re-saves the file, will my 2007 features be preserved?

re: All About File Formats

David Gainer — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:12:37 GMT

Hi Dave ... the answer, unfortunately, depends on the feature. Where it is possible (which is many cases), we preserve features. One of the team is putting together back compat info which we will make available in a blog post soon.

re: All About File Formats

Harlan Grove — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 20:07:53 GMT

When's the deprecated features list going to be available?

re: All About File Formats

A User — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 21:30:06 GMT

When's the deprecated features list going to be available?

re: All About File Formats

David Gainer — Fri, 21 Jul 2006 23:07:39 GMT

Harlan - I have stuff lined up for the next few weeks, so sometime in the first half of August with any luck.

re: All About File Formats

sysmod — Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:58:59 GMT

Re: ". Why is XLM still in Excel? "

I'm surprised to hear it's still in legacy systems, perhaps migrated from Lotus 123.

But XL4 code is still used TODAY to get access to some obscure functions via defined names. Such as GET.CELL
See:
http://www.jkp-ads.com/articles/ExcelNames08.htm

Patrick O'Beirne
www.sysmod.com

re: All About File Formats

Air_Cooled_Nut — Mon, 24 Jul 2006 19:33:14 GMT

Question regarding the "Working with Excel Services" note:

Maybe it's because I'm ignorant about Excel Services but why can't macros be used in it?

Copy paste between two instances of Excel

Lars Schouw — Tue, 25 Jul 2006 03:36:32 GMT

Did this problem get fixed in 2007?

I found a bug in Excel copy-paste between two sessions.

http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.excel/browse_thread/thread/ff1eeb8706d15e3d

Lars

re: All About File Formats

Dan Battagin — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 03:32:45 GMT

Air_Cooled_Nut - The quick answer is that on the server, you really don't want the security or performance concerns that are inherent in allowing VBA to run. For more details, you can read up on Excel Services in Dave's posts here: http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/category/11361.aspx

Lars - No, that same limitation still exists in Excel 2007.

re: All About File Formats

Lars Schouw — Wed, 26 Jul 2006 03:48:09 GMT

Cheer.

Where is the best place to report this as a request to get this fixed..

Lars

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