Josh Lee's Financial Services Blog

Financial Services technology issues

Cheap Coffee and Stale Muffins

There is nothing more mind numbing than sitting in a bland hotel conference room listening to people argue about the naming of an XML tag, or whether some complex type should have a status code (and what are the codes, oh that’s another half an hour).  If you’ve guessed that I’m referring to an industry standards meeting, you’d be right on.  There are those that revel in those exchanges, but I find them a bit pedantic.  Well, that was my week in Miami.  Situated in a hotel in downtown Miami (which these days looks a little like Beirut circa 1980’s) was three days of the quarterly IFX Forum (http://www.ifxforum.org) face to face meeting.  And there I am sniffing for packets on a badly implemented hotel wireless network.

 

Now, the good part of the meeting was that there is finally starting to be some really forward thinking on not only bank messaging architecture, but also on how various constructions of industry schemas are supported and embedded in web services architectures.  IFX has been making some great progress in this area.  IFX, for those who have not watched this space, is a banking data standard that incorporates messaging and data dictionaries for items like electronic bill payment, ATM/POS devices, foreign exchange, business banking, payments and now branch banking.  In fact they are involved in the IST Harmonization efforts with ISO, SWIFT and others to agree upon a single payment “kernel” that is supported across all those standards.  So they have been doing some great work in that area.  Overlaying that work is the work of their web services working group which has been piloting various IFX message constructions in SOAP wrappers and using WSDL, even now constructing WS-Security headers that are compliant to the security requirements of the various business areas.

 

I still find that with some of these standards, especially those that carried over structures from either EDI or DTD environments, that there is a basic misunderstanding about what is “interoperable” from a message standpoint.  On one extreme, you have what I call the “bulky” camp.  Those are the people that say that one large XSD constructed with a vertical macro “service wrapper” is REQUIRED for interop.  Oh and forget turning on validation for that schema, the lights would dim as EVERYTHING is contained therein.  On the other extreme are those that believe that interop can occur when two parties agree on data elements and context for those elements, which could occur at a macro or micro level.  Of course I subscribe to that school, tending to believe that composable elements at both the web service and the data level allow ultimate flexibility and infinite connections to business partners and processes.  Certainly with tools like BizTalk Server, smaller elements can be packaged into larger messages and data mapped to a variety of formats and applications.  Or as the “standards folk” like to say….it’s an implementation issue, ignore it….would you pass another stale muffin?

 

- Josh Lee

Published Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:59 PM by FinServGuy

Comments

 

Tom Kerigan said:

Hey Josh,

I got to thinking about what sort of cool things we can do once we have web services guidance for IFX. For starters, it's one less interface that we have to design when we take a second crack at service enabling our host banking transactions (the first crack was thoroughly embedding a host call in our J2EE code for some semblence of web-enabling the mainframe). Hopefully this will be the last major rework.

Past this benefit, do you start to see more ISVs writing applications that talk to standardized FSP services? I could see huge benefit in installing Microsoft Money and then letting it know some configuration information about your FI. This would enable a real-time snapshot of your finances (backed, of course, by the IFX-standard web services that your bank exposes). There's some obvious infrastructure requirements here (maintaining some semblence of a directory that Money can use to validate service interfaces, enabling micro-payments for a transaction based costing model in order to recoup expenses for letting customers have the luxury of real-time account information, etc ...) but the upswing is the potential in the richness of that holistic view of the customer that we can provide to the client.

What do you think of all of this?

BTW - it was great meeting you in Redmond @ SAF 2004. Hopefully we can re-connect in the near future.

Cheers,
Tom
October 31, 2004 8:55 AM
 

Josh Lee said:

Sorry to hear about your "lipstick on the pig" exercise for your mainframe. :-)

Your reference to MS Money really refers to the OFX standard (sort of the progenitor of IFX) and that is exactly the goal of that standard to have that coupling between the Personal Money Manager and the FI. However, I don't think that it goes far enough (nor does Intuit IMHO) in that there is so much more "power" that could be leveraged for the user in the planning and execution side in collaboration with their FI of choice. Right now they get near real time transactions (as fast as the FI posts them), but they can't do real time planning and execution with the FI. Not that many FIs do a better job of this. They might have cool tools online, but those have nothing to do with EXECUTION of those plans and tool output.

On the plus, side, I think that you are right though, the potential is there, it's now a matter of business buy in and IT plugging it together.

Great to meet you and I'm sure I'll see you again soon.

- Josh
October 31, 2004 1:13 PM
 

Josh Lee said:

I should make another observation here about standards. I get the honor of attending the semi-annual ACORD standards meeting...another fun filled few days in Florida (this time after the election, perhaps they have learned how to vote down there).

The hard part is that ACORD is further (quite a bit) behind in a web services and SOA compatible architecture. You have to totally break the ACORD model to make it support web services. So, where IFX is today, ACORD should be in about 18 months. I get to spread the good "gospel" to the insurance community, as futile as that may be. I'll really be loading up on the stale muffins.

- Josh
October 31, 2004 8:12 PM
 

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Welcome to Josh Lee's Financial Services Blog!!!

This blog is intended for the Financial Services audience in Banking, Insurance and Capital Markets. It is the source for code, samples, architectures, patterns and discussions related to Microsoft technology in Financial Services.

Josh Lee is the Program Manager for Financial Services Architecture and past Strategy Director for Microsoft's technology in Financial Services.

Feedback and constructive discussion is welcome. ENJOY!!

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