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Why I don't play with Linux...

It's not because I work for Microsoft. It's because I am not able to install Linux on my home machine.

[Waiting patiently for all the laughing to die...]

So far I've tried two different distros. Both of them died before the install process even started.

Gentoo 2004.0 Live CD freezes while trying to load the kernel from the CD. The gentoo kernel at least shows a nice bluish screen. The smp kernel just dies.

Fedora Core 2 blows up with an exception in Anaconda when it tries to load the packages. I am trying to install the Personal SKU (hm, what's the appropriate name in the Linux world?) on an extended partition.

To the Fedora's credit, Anaconda gave me a nice call stack and offered to write a dump to the floppy. The tester in me liked that a lot. On the other hand, I can imagine what my mother's reaction would be to that.

Btw, the machine is P4 HT @3.2 GHz, ASUS P4C800E-Deluxe mobo, ASUS Radeon 9800XT with 256MB, Seagate Baracuda HDD, Hauppage WinVPR 250 tuner, Windows Media Center remote control/receiver, Microsoft wireless keyboard and mouse, ActivCard smartcard reader. That's about it. Nothing too fancy or too alien on the hardware front.

Oh, well, I guess I am out of luck. I'll just have to give it a try in several months...

Published Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:21 PM by Franci Penov
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Comments

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

You should give knoppix a try, it's a quick and easy way to get a linux installation up to play around with. You just boot it up off the CD. If it hates your machine too, big deal, you lost 10 minutes. http://www.knoppix.net/
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:37 PM by jacob

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Have you tried Knoppix(http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html)
or Monoppix? (http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2004/09/01/223945.aspx)
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:40 PM by Scott

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Well your not missing much :P
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:42 PM by Justin Long

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

One option is to use Virtual PC. That abstracts away potential hardware issues, since it runs against simple virtual hardware. I've run various Knoppix distributions on Virtual PC and haven't had any hardware issues more severe than inability to optimize graphics.

Have you tried Knoppix live cd's (direct, not on Virtual PC)? They've been great on four different computers - my main computer is an AMD 64 and it's had no problems. You can get a vanilla Knoppix distro here [http://www.knoppix.net/get.php], or if you want to play with Mono you can check out the Monoppix distro that just went preview release today [shameless plug -> http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2004/09/01/223945.aspx].
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 10:52 PM by Jon Galloway

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Clearly, the installers are able to detect that you work for Microsoft and are acting accordingly.

Try installing Linux while wearing an IBM t-shirt and see if that helps. Make sure to remove any Microsoft SWAG (pens, coffee cups, and the like) from the area around your computer. Failing that, you might try ritualistically burning a photo of Bill Gates while chanting "Oracle, Oracle, Oracle" in a low trance-like voice.

Y
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:05 PM by Steve Maine

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

<i>
Anaconda gave me a nice call stack and offered to write a dump to the floppy. The tester in me liked that a lot. On the other hand, I can imagine what my mother's reaction would be to that.
</i>

I liked that line a lot :)

I'm using Fedora Core 2 on the same motherboard (exact) a Radeon 9600 128mb, same mouse and a MS natural keyboard. I guess it must be your seagate.
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:06 PM by Fedora user

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I guess you may have luck installing Linux on Virtual PC. I installed SuSE on Virtual PC before, and it works pretty well.
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:14 PM by vbNullString

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Go with SuSE, it's a much better distro. If you are looking for something a little more commercial, try the community edition of Xandros. You won't go wrong with either of these.
Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:59 PM by John Malonson

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Try a knoppix disk - the one I have boots my two SMP machines no problem, it also works on my 'fake smp' p4 ht laptop. NUMA is even supported on the opteron system.

If it still dies, try turning off hyperthreading in your bios. It may be the bios is actually reporting the machine as SMP/supporting NUMA - which it can't be with P4.

That or try a normal version of Linux which will be easier to use and have fewer bugs like this. I suspect it's just the kernel builds being used plus your bios.

Gentoo is a 'compile it yourself' and fedora a 'break now!' system. Try suse, mandrake or if you don't mind text and outdated contents but network install... Debian.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:01 AM by Simon

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Mandrake. Fedora/Red Hat began to vomit on my hardware during install. I switched to Mandrake. I've been insanely happy with it ever since. And... if you just want to toy with linux and not go to all trouble of installing the OS and potentially rendering your system unusable, you can run knoppix. A flavor of linux (debian) that runs entirely off a CD. Pop it in the drive, boot off the cd, and your up and running. When you're done shutdown, pop out the CD and restart.

Rev
Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:33 AM by Rev

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...


Neither of those distros are aimed at 'joe user' (or people without time/inclination to dig further into problems).

Have you considered trying Suse instead? Or Mandrake?

Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:41 AM by Ross

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I have the same feeling: once I succeeded in installing SuSe v8, but v9 install fails. I then tried to install Fedora Core 2 with the same result... I must admit though, that I did try to install them in a Virtual PC environment. But that should have to work, doesn't it?
Thursday, September 02, 2004 1:24 AM by Tom Mertens

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Don't bother...its only gonna get worse in a few month.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 1:31 AM by Linus Torvalds

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I had the same problem, going through Red Hat, Gentoo, and SuSE. All of them gave me fits during install (usually video card related).
Then I tried Knoppix...a LiveCD based on Debian with seamless HW detection on every machine I've tried. Give it a shot. If it works, it takes only a few clicks to install it to your hard drive.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:11 AM by Mark

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Hello there,

Download Mandrake or Suse and give that a go, I think they are better distros.

I know there's few issues with your graphics card i.e. performance isn't so good because ATI have released crap drivers but said drivers aren't open source it's a case of hanging around waiting for ATI to improve on them.

Nice bit of kit by the way, did you nick it or do Microsoft pay well ;-)

Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:48 AM by Jase

# RE: Why I don't play with Linux...

I have found that Linux installs usually like ~6 months or older hardware. if you have leading edge stuff, they dont work very well. If you just want to monkey with Linux, I recommend getting one of the older machines on eBay and trying with them. I have had much success with VMWare also.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:15 AM by Girish

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Fedora Core 2 is working without problems with lots of hardware and the installation process is very simple. Have you done a network installation or a cd installation?
Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:19 AM by Stefano Demiliani

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Hey,
Why don't you install a better distro.
Fidora is a "test bed" type thing.
Live cd?

Try mandrake or SuSE.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:19 AM by reality

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

This problem is probably caused by the Serial ATA controller. Fiddle with the ATA compatibility settings in BIOS and you'll have Linux up and running in no time. :)
I had the same thing kill linux kernels since I got my Asus P4P800.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:38 AM by MacBirdie

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Don't use ASUS, they do not support Linux. Use MSI, eg.
Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:58 AM by Jurgen Defurne

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

In my opinion I think Gentoo is a distro resevered for those *nix gurus. I've tried it and have had problems myself; Fedora, again, I don't think is a good choice. Fedora is very dynamic and often you need to get under the hood.

If you want to install and forget Mandrake is a clear winner. I run Mandrake 10 (download edition), install it in *15 minutes flat!* and am able to get productive right away. You have "wizards" for everything and it looks really nice.

I can't say that I really blame you for trying Gentoo and Fedora off the bat since those are some of the distros most talked about.

If really want to try Linux and see what it can really do try Mandrake..

Just the optinion of someone who uses multiple OSes..
Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:13 AM by Faiden

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I've had the same problem with a number of Linux distros. The most reliable I've found are Mandrake and Knoppix. Slackware is also good, but requires much higher technical skills to install.

Knoppix is a live CD so you don't need to do anything to your system to boot it (except make your CD drive the first boota device).

I am very impressed with Knoppix and I think it is worthwhile for you to try it (www.knoppix.org).
Thursday, September 02, 2004 5:51 AM by John Drake

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

You might want to give Knoppix a shot. Just download the iso, burn it to a CD and boot your machine to the CD. And away you go.

I need to test some stuff out from linux browsers and the such sometimes, and it's been a life saver. Plus, there is a version out there that includes Mono: http://weblogs.asp.net/jgalloway/archive/2004/09/01/223945.aspx
Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:08 AM by Phil Scott

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I bet you'll be flooded with comments or emails telling you to try other distributions... :)
Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:16 AM by Eric G. Harrison

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

You might try the gentoo with "acpi=no" added on the boot line, and as to FC2, looks like you got a defective media. Did you sun the media test before installing, or did you skip it ?
Thursday, September 02, 2004 7:27 AM by Anonymous Coward

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Good thing this is a Microsoft related blog... if you ever get linked to by a site such as Slashdot you’ll hear a lot of Linux Zealots screaming “Stupid Windows user! You’re dumb! Learn how to use a computer!”

Thankfully... I’m not one of them.

I’ve always been a Windows centric person who’s tried to use Linux here and there over the years... each time I end up with experiences which sour me on it for months (or years) after.

A few months ago I was required to do a fair amount of work under Linux and it drove me away from it even more. Heck, a few months ago I even started a blog (which I haven’t used much since) regarding my problems with Linux and what I see as holding it back.

Unfortunately... because of my work this summer I’ve been declared the Linux expert of the department and got a call from a co-worker on Tuesday about how to recompile a 2.3 kernel module for a 2.4 kernel... now my task is ensuring that people stop referring questions to me.

BTW, my anti Linux blog is located at: http://ihatelinux.blogspot.com/
Thursday, September 02, 2004 9:01 AM by Brendan

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Funny how the commentors didn't apparently read each others comments. =) A lot of the same suggestions. But.. at least you can see that Mandrake and Knoppix are you best bets.

Oh and as do whether or not you should run Asus. I run Asus hardware exclusively... Mobo, Vid card, cd drive.. etc.. and I've never had any problems with it. Mandrake's drivers are the most up to date I've ever seen. They always detect my hardware - Even my Audigy - and work flawlessly.

Asus Rules.

Rev
Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:27 AM by Rev

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

I would like to take a moment to second (third?) the request for you to try knoppix: http://www.knoppix.net/
Thursday, September 02, 2004 10:41 AM by Capt. Jean-Luc Pikachu

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Hey, it's Linux. You're supposed to download the kernel source onto another computer, cross-compile it after fixing it with your debug trace, merge your changes into the open source tree, then get another copy of the distro.

That's half the fun of it.

I had similar problems with XP on an HT CPU, but I couldn't get the source. Boy was I stuck!

:P
Thursday, September 02, 2004 11:45 AM by A Real Hacker

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Hm, i'll just respond to all comments at once.

It seems like the overwhelming majority of people think Knoppix, Suse or Mandrake is the way to go. I'll give Mandrake a try this weekend. I've tried Knoppix, but since it's CD based, I can't get all the graphic candies my video is capable of.

Rev: It was my fault. I posted this last night and went to bed. All the comments waited for me to wake up this morning and moderate them.

Jurgen Defurne: I can hardly see myself spending another $1000 for new machine. My current one is fairly good and should last me another three to four years. I certainly hope that all the OSes I use in this timeframe are able to support it.

Jase: I got the machine on eBay for a very good price. It's amazing what things you can find there somethimes.

Btw, here's a plug for the company that assembled my machine - Deviant Computers (http://www.deviantcomp.net/).
Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:11 PM by Franci Penov

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

What error message did you get, it might appear that fedora core 1 might be better http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2004-February/msg00969.html
Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:53 PM by Tom

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Almost certainly sata problems
Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:57 PM by Tom

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

The reason, why Linux will be used everywhere is, that you blow up a blog like this on September 01, 2004 10:21 PM, and you got this amount of answers in a day. Have you ever tried MS Platinum support? Or complaining about an XP installation ending up in Blue Screen Of Death in a blog? Like shouting it out in the Grand Canyon.
Hope, the above tips will help, but if not, at least you ae not feeling alone :-)
BTW: Less and less true Linux geeks laugh when they hear a problem like this, as the know one thing for sure: we need user base :-)
Have a good weekend!
Thursday, September 02, 2004 6:13 PM by Laci

# re: Why I don't play with Linux...

Are you using SATA hard disks? If this is the case you need a 2.6 kernel (many distributions offer this as an option when booting but it is not the default, you'll have to look at the installation instructions specific to the distro you're using)

Trying to install an OS on a machine with the system hard disk on a controller that is not supported out of the box can be a nuisance, in this respect Linux and Windows are not that different ':)

Actually I find problems like these quite enjoyable (in a similar way as solving crossword puzzles) but I know that my idea of having fun sometimes seems a little strange to other people...
Tuesday, September 07, 2004 1:37 PM by Eusebio Rufian-Zilbermann

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