Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Dopo i Mozilla anche gli Apache sono stati invitati a Redmond...

Normal people bore me! — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:34:34 GMT

Dopo i Mozilla anche gli Apache sono stati invitati a Redmond...

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Yan Seiner — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:55:21 GMT

I'm a bit taken aback by the sheer arrogance of this.... MS is dictating terms to the most successful web server out there, telling when to show up and under wha tconditions....

If I got this, I'd tell them to stuff it. If they want me to provide them with my insight, they should extend an 'invitation', not a summons, and offer the use of the lab at their convenience.

And tell them to proofread (and not just spellcheck) their summons.

--Yan

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

GarrettS — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 05:12:24 GMT

Hmmm.

Interesting Yan.

I guess the part I left out, is the last six weeks where I've been emailing back and forth with the ASF, and asking which dates they would like, what we can do to help, and the fact that we're willing to pay for some of the attendees to show.

On top of that, most of the text in the email was actually part of an internal invite that Bill Rowe of the ASF had sent between some of the members of the ASF about a month ago, and he sent it on to me, and I included the text in the 'official' invite.

The reason it's an 'official' invitation, is because we finally locked down the dates, and we could talk with some certainty about it.

Garrett

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

suez — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 16:51:42 GMT

don't go -

remember in the movie "It's a wonderful life" potter offers Harry Baily a job and he was taken in by Mr. Potter but finally woke up and realized what was happening and told him to get lost.

well don't be taken by the money and the glitz

stick to your guns and tell microsoft what they really are. to many so called open source devotees have been taken in by the money and glitz.

microsoft can't beat apache and they would love nothing else to get some of their mopped up code into apache and bring it down with lawsuits.

if you do go DO NOT LOOK AT THEIR CODE!! keep apache clean!

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Yan Seiner — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:36:32 GMT

OOPS! I wish that had been evident from the post. In that case, I apologize for the tone and content of my comment.

--Yan

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re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

kuratkull — Fri, 11 Jan 2008 14:04:19 GMT

Microsoft should go to Apache developers and see if Windows Server 2008 works correctly with Apache, not the other way around.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

someone — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:05:28 GMT

dont do it! its a trap, they're going to ambush you!

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Bro — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 01:30:49 GMT

If you decide to go, be very very careful not to drink the Kool Aid.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

TANK — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:24:00 GMT

I say go for it Apache team. Don't be another one of them "everyones against us" type people.

Anyone with an open mind is most likely to learn from this experience.

I suppose the key word here is "compatibility".

Cheers

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Eric — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 02:30:34 GMT

Don't go? Don't look at the code? These have got to be the most idiotic responses I have ever seen? The whole affair is win-win. Are you a developer (suez)? Probably not. Save your ramblings for digg.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Phil — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 04:43:05 GMT

Win win??? Apache seems to have done great all this time without any sort of Windows compatibility effort from MS. What does Apache really have to win here?

I would not be anxious to work with a company that called my business model and cancer and actively seeks to destroy one of the OS's that has made my product successful. I almost guarantee this will come back on the Apache guys as the point and time that they incorporated MS code in their server. There are alot of people counting on the Apache server...don't let MS ruin it.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

GarrettS — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 05:27:37 GMT

I see that there is a handful of folks who don't think Apache should come, for what seems to be:

a) thinking that we'll somehow "corrupt" their code. Or their eternal souls. Same Thing.

b) thinking that we're going to show them the source code to Windows and therefor influencing them.

c) thinking that we've not actually done some homework.

d) Um...spite?

The Windows Server 2008 Application Compatability labs is a way we can get customers access to all the product engineers, developers, and archetects in a single place in order to help them make their products better, answer their questions, and take their requests. The Apache Software Foundation makes software for Windows. Lots of it. I'd hope that there are ways we can help.

We're not "incorporating MS code" into their products. We're looking to help them make their products even better.

I'm also pretty positive that we're not giving them any Kool Aid.

And, really... What would be a problem with an even better Apache HTTPD that ran on Windows?

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

CautiousOne — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:07:09 GMT

"And, really... What would be a problem with an even better Apache HTTPD that ran on Windows? "

-- Well for one "Microsoft" it is really hard to have warm and fuzzies given past and current actions! have you taken a close look at your company? --- because of our type of business all but one of our networks are isolated from the outside world and each other physically; no e-mail, web, "Genuine Advantage", "stealth updates" you are a crook and we must check on you

We just recently (4 months) moved some areas to XPP after years of flawless W2k, we are not thrilled with it. The same on some of our servers (just moving to W2K3) and that has stopped! we can not have systems that have to "phone home" VISTA is well VISTA and it will never see the light of day here, along with Exchange due to its AD integration/reliance, as we do have internal mail in each network. Due to costs and so called "enhancements" we are looking to move deeper into Linux/MAC -- after testing MSO 2007 that was flushed and we in process of moving everyone to Star Office 8 updt9, Our "intranets" are all Apache.

Due to MS partners we are in process of moving our control systems and ERP to Linux (yes we do pay for our software). Why can't you have a modular server / desktop? not just disabling.... I will say that the 2008 core is interesting from playing with it.. Powershell is weak to say the least but at least you tried. From the database side we use PostgreSQL / EnterpriseDB. If MS was serious about "playing nice" they would port some things to Linux (Office come to mind) and believe it or not we still do a fair amount in VB/Delphi(Kylix) along with TrollTech. I am also somewhat fond of C#.

Well anyway I got off the subject.... it's just hard to trust MS when they don't trust and the constant rantings from Steve about Linux. Myself and other Directors from different companies will continue to pool our resources and work towards better solutions

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Chandru — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 18:19:41 GMT

>> We're looking to help them make their products even better.

When did Microsoft start wanting Apache and Firefox to be better products? Also why should they do that after all these are already better products.

If at all u guys want Free software to be better ask your beloved CEO to shut up and quit ranting about patent infringement.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Billy — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 19:06:02 GMT

The first of the E's begins. Embrace the Technology.

"a) thinking that we'll somehow "corrupt" their code. Or their eternal souls. Same Thing."

Isn't that what MS is so good at doing?

"b) thinking that we're going to show them the source code to Windows and therefor influencing them."

With several years of correcting the code.

"c) thinking that we've not actually done some homework."

In how to Embrace information, Extend it with MS additions, and finally Extinguish the original. Yes, MS has done there homework for years off the backs of those they embraced then ended up walking over there corpses.

"d) Um...spite?"

No. Actually worry.

Sorry if I do not see MS as a benevolent company. To many have been destroyed by them after being welcomed with open arms and smiles.

Just my 2 cents.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Alonso — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 20:02:50 GMT

Given Microsoft's tendency to "appropriate" other's ideas, I would not trust this company in any way.

GarretS last comment, "And, really... What would be a problem with an even better Apache HTTPD that ran on Windows?", is really telling of the one-sided relationship that Microsoft seeks to harbor.

Apache is doing very well AS IS. Microsfot is only looking to gain advantages for its own products at the expense of other people's innovation and hard work- for profit and without contributing back to the community.

Apache, read this: DO NOT GO!

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Rambo Tribble — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:31:51 GMT

It is obvious that Microsoft is trying to adapt to a changing software landscape. While that does little to validate the purity of its corporate intent, it is discouraging to see so many unwilling to give detente a chance.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Phil — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 22:36:15 GMT

"And, really... What would be a problem with an even better Apache HTTPD that ran on Windows?"

I think the better question is...what would be the benefit? For Apache there seems to be little. While your intent may be good your company is still about the bottom line. You should really take a look at some of the antics your company has pulled to understand why most FOSS supporters don't see this as a good move.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

yamimbe — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:45:15 GMT

You can't trust Microsoft ..... if it wasn't for OSS they would never have got their "cluster" to work I was at the meeting where that was "officially said".

Apache runs just fine, the largest driving force for it on "Windows" is "Microsoft". I'm for interoperability but with MS there is an obvious danger in association .... WARNING WILL ROBINSON!! don't go ... "keep your friends close, your enemies closer" OSS is a cancer in their eyes they are looking to "DESTROY" their stated cancer.

Yes I use some MS products (SuSe Enterprise arrrghhhh!!!) and yes I have been testing "2008", it is prudent to have an understanding and level of knowledge in order to handle things you run accross...

that said, watch for the knife that is aimed for your back....

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Tom Sherman — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:49:14 GMT

And, really... What would be a problem with an even better Apache HTTPD that ran on Windows?

The Fact it is "Windows" and "Microsoft" aspirations of world domination of software and user lockin!!

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

CautiousOne — Sun, 13 Jan 2008 15:50:51 GMT

Seems the moderator doesn't want to publish negative feedback... that will be noted in other blogs, for sure

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Adam Hoka — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 00:47:40 GMT

A better supported lighttpd on Windows would make more sense. :)

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Sean McCann — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 01:25:43 GMT

If the Apache team wanna go to Redmond to talk to MicroSoft thats up to them. If apache runs better under windows 2008 as a result then its a good thing. The apache guys are smart guys.

The fact is that MS is going to be around for a long time. Windows 2008 has a large ISP target demographic that will run Apache or Tomcat. Apache is the largest internet server , Microsoft would be nuts to spurn the chance to talk to them.

Also can we cut Garret some slack, I'm sure he gets enough grief in work over open source and some of the zealots. At least he has the balls to post it on his blogg and give us an insight into whats going on.

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

Frank — Mon, 14 Jan 2008 03:33:59 GMT

Garretts >> "We're looking to help them make their products even better"

Oh really!? Already smarter and better than MS IIS, and now, even better?

Why would you need to run HTTPD/Tomcat on Windows anyway?

MS has got to learn to appreciate:

- International Standards

- Open Source (genuine passion and ideas without proprietary motives)

re: Apache Developers Invited to Redmond

yamimbe — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:05:27 GMT

I'm sure he gets plenty of flak (after all he works for MS). That aside he could be a good guy, but his company is a vicious, ruthless, monopoly. They will stop at nothing and do anything, buy, bribe, cajole and garner leverage in the U.S. with cash.... ummm marketing assistance, campaign donations etc. (the same in Africa).. the EU is the only salvation as the U.S. will do nothing pertinent even states that want to continue against them are "discouraged" by the justice dept.

MS can't be trusted and their direct actions as well as those through "proxy" companies they ummm invest in. They over charge, treat you as a criminal and laugh cause they can get away with it...