Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Sun, 23 May 2004 17:13:00 GMT

At data point 5 (whatever that means) whose glucose level was higher, green's or red's?

Pretty picture, but not very plausible.

Try Again

Matt Chaput — Mon, 24 May 2004 00:25:00 GMT

If you're going to make the case for business users needing 3D, you have to come up with compelling examples. This example is absolutely worthless and stupid.

As pointed out by the first comment, a lot of information is obscured. Not just by other bars, but by the overlayed controls and the window border. Moreover, the use of perspective causes the graph to lie in that bars of equal value will have different lengths due to foreshortening.

It's no good saying "this is how 3D *could be* used," because it *shouldn't* be used this way, and if you have a way it *should* be used you should show that.

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Tedd Davis — Mon, 24 May 2004 07:35:00 GMT

Guys, give the man a bit of latitude. For starters, the graph rotates.

Also, at this stage, the emphasis of the demonstration and his blog post is clearly on the capabilities of the UI technology.

If this was Graphic Design 101 you'd get 10 out of 10 for focus, but...

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Bill — Thu, 27 May 2004 03:32:00 GMT

Really cool stuff!!!

Revelation: 3D in Avalon

Primordial Ooze — Thu, 27 May 2004 15:47:00 GMT

Greg Schechter wrote a blog entitled, Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration. He says, and I quote: 2D/3D Integration The programming model of Avalon is fundamentally a 2D one.  Elements are rendered via painter’s algorithm, back to front.  There’s no notion of interpenetration of elements.  A challenge for 3D is figuring out how it fits into this 2D world.  The approach we arrived at is pretty straightforward - each 3D “world” or “scene” (called a Model3D) is an island onto itself.  It takes a Model3D to be paired up with a Camera before it can be incorporated into the...

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Matt Chaput — Sat, 29 May 2004 21:26:00 GMT

Microsoft is saying 3D should be used in business scenarios. Unless they have examples of 3D improving communication instead of making it worse, they should stop saying that. Shouldn't GOOD examples be easier to come up with than BAD examples if business 3D is so great?

Saying that you can tumble the graph completely misses the point: if you want to see the true values (without perspective), you have to view the graph head-on, in which case bars are obscured (and why are you using 3D anyway); if you want to view the obscured bars, you have to tumble to a perspective view where the bar lengths are distorted.

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Greg Schechter — Tue, 01 Jun 2004 03:24:00 GMT

Mea culpa. As has been pointed out elsewhere, this isn't the greatest example as a motivator for using 3D in interfaces and, in particular, in visualization interfaces. There clearly are more appropriate uses than what I've shown here. But, as Tedd Davis rightly points out above, this is *not* the point of this Post.

The point is to show that, as a platform, Avalon provides an interesting (and, in my opinion, quite powerful) take on 3D. This will be both used properly and abused.

Point is, I do want the focus of this to be on the manner of integration here, more so than the (flawed) example shown here.

Halfbrite — Wed, 02 Jun 2004 05:54:00 GMT

The first Avalon 3D demo...

Halfbrite — Wed, 02 Jun 2004 05:57:00 GMT

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

C. Hollingworth — Thu, 03 Jun 2004 14:21:00 GMT

Hi Matt Chaput, I think I met you at the Car Show last year.

I'm sure you were the guy complaining about how Ford's new hydrogen-fuel concept car had poor passenger foot room, questionable choice of interior leathers, and bad positioning of the fuel tank. And you only had the brochure photo!

I heard Ford stopped all research on hydrogen-fuelled cars after hearing your views.

re: Introducing 3D in Avalon and 2D/3D Integration

Thomas Goddard — Sun, 25 Jul 2004 06:14:00 GMT

Hi Matt,

I really don't think Avalon was made for people that can barely see in 2 dimensions.

Cheers,
Tommy

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