Orcas Certifications Follow-Up – Implications for MCPD

Comments

# Meile Zetstra said on March 26, 2007 4:04 AM:

I'd say this is a good way to keep the credentials up to date. The fact that you would just need to take exams in skills that are new and not having to go through a complete path of 3 or more exams is a huge progress to the old paths of cetification.

I was surprised though to read that any MCPD credential would only be valid for three years. Where is this listed at the Microsoft Learning site? I couldn't find it or may be I missed something.

# Mathias Raacke said on March 26, 2007 4:39 AM:

Hello Howard,

do any of these new tests cover WCS?

# hdierking said on March 26, 2007 1:29 PM:

At the moment, CardSpace is a sort of awkward fit.  Given the scope of the technology, I don't at this moment see it having its own exam.  However, I don't know where it fits in the rest of the .NET 3.0 space.  Any thoughts?

# Mathias Raacke said on March 26, 2007 3:00 PM:

You could split CardSpace between WCF and ASP .NET 3.5.

The ASP .NET exam could contain questions on how to use CardSpace as relying party (for example, embedding the object tag or xhtml in a web page).

WCF could contain questions about using CardSpace as authentication method for web services.

What's still missing then are questions about creating managed cards or creating an identity provider. I'm not sure where that would fit best. It's somehow related to WCF because it is based on WS-* technologies, but it's a very special topic that most web service developers won't use in the near future.

# Iain Wade said on March 26, 2007 7:31 PM:

Hi Howard,

Once the new orcas exams come out would it be invalid to achieve the MCPD :Web Dev. by the path of exams 70-536 ->70-528 ->70-547,  even if  70-547 remains unchanged?

This is the path I’m currently on (Studying for 70-547 now) and am wondering if I should make sure to get the MCPD before the orcas exams come out, and then upgrade it (do the new TS exams) rather than be sent back to the beginning before being able to sit for 70-547.  

Thanks for your time.

-Iain

# Iain Wade said on March 26, 2007 7:44 PM:

BTW.

I think It’s a really good idea keeping the one foundation exam for the time being,

and building this new lot exams on to it. It makes for a very simple and flexible roadmap, especially for those who have just started on it. :-)

# hdierking said on March 26, 2007 8:09 PM:

The timing for when we change the MCPD requirements is independent of when the Orcas TS certifications are released.  We will send out tons of announcements when we get ready to change the MCPD requirements, so you won't be caught off guard.  

That said, I would go ahead and get the 2.0 stuff out of the way so that you can go ahead and start preparing for the 3.x exams.  Your TS certifications on 3.x technologies will still be meaningful, even before we include them as requirements for the MCPD.

# S.Y.Paul Lai said on March 30, 2007 9:15 PM:

I got my MCPDs in beta exams and I will be one of the first group that needs to renew.  Will the new exams come out in time before my credentials expire?  Any time table?

Do you know the renew paths for MCITPs of SQL Server?  Do we have a new version of SQL Server that will come out with new exams within next 22 months?

# hdierking said on April 3, 2007 12:57 PM:

The new exams should be out before your credential expires (although that does raise a rather simple question that I had not considered - what do we do in cases where there has been no change in the pro requirements?).  Also, there are no exams planned around the next version of SQL Server, though I'm not completely tied into what the ITPRO folks are doing.

# John Coleman said on April 4, 2007 10:21 PM:

You guys should seriously considering following the Cisco approach.  Over there if you are certified, you "upgrade" or "renew" (depending on what you are doing) by taking an exam.  To Cisco, by taking another exam you are keeping your skill set up to date.  I don't mean stupid crap like taking a new version of the same exam... if I recall, that's not allowed (but you are REQUIRING THAT!)

It's a much better approach than what you are doing now with this "no upgrade" approach.  It's also a nice middle ground as I hate the upgrade idea as well, but the "take the newer version of the exam idea" (i.e. ASP.NET 3.5) is just a plain sign of retardation.

# Jennifer said on April 5, 2007 10:24 AM:

Any guess as to when we might see these new Orcas exams?  Will this happen in 07 or will it be 08?

# Drew Minkin said on April 5, 2007 11:30 AM:

Will there be new PRO exams to consider architectural changes in .NET 3.5?

Will there be cross-TS exams (like the 55X series) available to the Windows and EntApp MCPD tracks?

# hdierking said on April 9, 2007 8:56 PM:

Orcas exams should hit in late 07.  

We are planning to modify the pro certification requirements to include the .NET 3.x TS certifications, but we are not planning any PRO exams in this planning cycle.

We are not planning upgrade exams like the 55x exams in the 2.0 space (for the reasons cited in the post).

Also - John - I'm not blowing off your comments - they raised some interesting questions that I'm bringing up to my group.  I will post a new entry soon on some of the topics you've raised.

# Iain Wade said on April 11, 2007 9:17 PM:

Will there be any concession made for candidates who have already the completed the TS pre-requisites for the MCPD prior to the Orcas exams coming-out.

eg. 70-528 looks like it will be superseded (and retired?) when the orcas exams come out, but will it be able to remain as a possible path for 70-547 for those who have already completed it.

There seems to be little reason for someone to aiming for an MCPD to do start the current TS pre-requisites knowing that if they don’t also get the MCPD before the orcas exams come out they will have to start again with fulfilling the new pre-reqs. It would feel bit like landing on a snake in snakes and ladders. Especially as there is no plan for changes to the current MCPD exam itself.

cheers.

# Juan Barrera said on April 27, 2007 1:08 AM:

I have the same feeling than Iain.

Now I'm in finishing with TS 2.0 (done 70-528, studying for 70-536) and seems like useless to push this way now, because, by the end of the year, when the new Orcas exams are out, i'll have to start from scratch to get the MCPD if I don't get it first (which seems very unlikely).

I think there should be an upgrade path, maybe in the "Cisco way", as other guy mentioned, but, otherwise, a lot of people like me following the current path will be forced to start from scratch.

I understand why the idea of having update paths was dismissed, but a compromise should be make in some way for the people who's currently in the way.

Otherwise, I can argue that you should never start, because there always going to be a "new exam" coming, that will make your currents obsolete.

cheers,

Juan  

# Henrik W H said on May 14, 2007 8:02 AM:

Jeg har brugt en del af min barsel på at kigge .NET 2.0 certificeringerne. Helt utroligt hvor meget en

# Felipe said on June 11, 2007 2:08 PM:

I did pressent and passed these two exams, and I want to study for the MCPD (547).

I'll be studing for 6 months or so, I don't know if I'll get enoght time before my credential get depressiated.

I think you should make an update examn from ASP.NET 2.0 to 3.5.

# hdierking said on June 11, 2007 8:15 PM:

Felipe -

In the case you're describing, you would have already taken 536 in order to get your ASP.NET 2.0 cert.  Therefore, you would have to take the 1 ASP.NET 3.5 exam to get your ASP.NET 3.5 cert.

Also, it's worth pointing out that your PRO credential does not expire until 3 years after you ACHIEVE it.

Can you explain, given that it would be 1 exam either way, an upgrade exam is valuable here?

# James Peckham said on July 10, 2007 10:53 PM:

how do i get involved with the beta tests?

# jorge pires said on July 16, 2007 3:22 PM:

I am lookign to start studying for the current MCPD but my conccern is that i will not be able to finish by late 2007 when the proposed chages to the MCPD. any suggestions

# rob said on July 17, 2007 7:46 AM:

I have the same problem - "I am looking to start studying for the current MCPD but my conccern is that i will not be able to finish by late 2007 when the proposed chages to the MCPD. any suggestions" ?

# Anthony Main said on July 31, 2007 10:43 AM:

I wondered what this affect would have on us MCAD. I have been planning on upgrading my MCAD to an MCPD but no feel like I should hold on expecting a different upgrade path to the 3.5 grades

# David B said on August 13, 2007 1:54 PM:

I'd like to vent on something in regards to all of this.  I hope you can humor me with a response.

I recently got the MCPD (Web Developer).  The last time I had a certification was an old MCSD (long since expired).

I've been doing development and trying to stay on top of the latest and greatest for 20 years now.  Microsoft has buttered my bread for about 14+ of those years.  I've never had a problem staying on top of my game as a developer while on the job.

However, forever chasing certifications can be extremely frustrating.  This last MCPD, cost me 7 months of nights where I told my daughter that Daddy was busy studying, please find something else to do.  Yes, I did gain a lot of familiarity in many areas that I might not have otherwise gained.  However, unless I use that knowledge it will be quickly lost.

I'm very concerned that when I was "sold" on taking this last MCPD that there was really no expiration date, just possibly an old title.

Now, I'm hearing that this too will expire.  And, I might be coerced by a future employer who feels that certification means something about my capabilities that I need to do the whole cycle all over again.

Does Microsoft even care about the effect on some of the more seasoned professionals when it comes to playing this certifcation game?  There's a lot of costs: Study materials, exams, time off to study (in the many scores to possibly hundreds of hours), time off to take the exams (much smaller fortunately), time away from the family (which can be particularly brutal).

It is very frustrating to hear about yet another round.

Yes, I understand the tools grow in complexity and in functionality.  But, has Microsoft given any thought to a friendlier way to deal with how this gets played out?  The number of worldwide professionals seems pretty small.  It's no wonder why.  I think the practicality of taking these exams and their end effect do not quite match the hype built-up for them.

One more thing, the 70-536 exam was absolutely brutal to study for.  It was the broadest and deepest exam I most likely ever studied for in ANY area (and I do have a BS degree).  Is the new 3.5 exam going to be equally broad and deep?

Thanks for letting me vent.

# Ryan said on September 18, 2007 3:11 AM:

If by any chance you can't renew your MCPD, can you still address yourself as such? I'll be chasing certifications for a few more years but it might be good to have a way to recognize those who for some reason or another weren't able to renew. There might be some cons to this as this used to implemented, e.g. MCSD 6.0 and MCSD.NET and was no longer adopted by the new generation cert paths but just something consider. Or I might just be missing something here and this is already addressed by say:

MCPD: Web (expired Sept 12, 2007)?

Secondly, in case there will be very minimal changes to the PRO exam in 3 years, would a renewal be required? Having a relatively "short", fixed number of years for renewal might be less efficient than requiring a renewal only when there is considerable number of changes to require one.

I love certifications and we appreciate all the efforts to help us prove our competence but we're hoping you consider our time, effort and money in your decisions and you consult those who know better than most of us.

# Ryan said on September 18, 2007 3:16 AM:

Found answers to my own questions :)

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/newgen/lifecycle/default.mspx

# Thomas said on September 23, 2007 2:13 PM:

Hello,

ATM, i am doing training on Orcas Beta 2 -

i require to pass the exams as far as possible,

because we need the Partner Points in January 2008.

anybody knows when the exams become available ?

# Deep said on September 24, 2007 3:40 PM:

http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=2169436&SiteID=1

The new TS exams and their beta dates are as follows:

Exam 70-502: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 - Windows Presentation Foundation - 11/09/2007

Exam 70-503: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 - Windows Communication Foundation - 11/08/2007

Exam 70-504: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 – Workflow - 11/15/2007

Exam 70-561: TS: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 - ADO.NET - 1/17/2008

Exam 70-562: TS: TS: Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 - ASP.NET - 1/31/2008

# JP said on October 2, 2007 7:39 AM:

Quoting from here

http://www.microsoft.com/learning/mcp/newgen/lifecycle/default.mspx

"If you do not refresh your MCITP or MCPD in the stated time period, your certification no longer appears on your transcript, and you cannot create or use the logo. "

Why Expire MCPD? Why doesn't Microsoft assign  a version number say MCPD Web Developer .NET 2.0 and keep them on the Transcript?

I feel that if you have spent time and energy on getting yourself certified , it should be on your transcript for eternity

# Meile said on October 2, 2007 7:53 AM:

I think it's OK to let the MCPD expire. It's not a bad thing to keep your knowledge up to date by taking a refresh exam, or by taking an exam in new technology. IMHO, all the people that complain that their MCPD expires, have no heart for that what they have achieved a certification for.

just my thoughts,

Meile

# JP said on October 2, 2007 11:17 AM:

Meile,

Agree that certifications are to keep one's knowledge upto date and I for myself would pursue new certifications .

10 years down the lane being certified for .NET 2.0 or 1.1 may not have any significance as technology would have changed and people would be looking for the latest and greatest but why wipe off something from your record ?? Let it stay there atleast to attest to the fact that at some point in time you had spent some time and energy for it

As some else  pointed out in another blog.. do your degrees expire just because 10 or say 15 years down the lane what ever you learnt is no longer relevant?

# Thomas said on October 16, 2007 5:11 PM:

i agree with JP,

I think the achievments of the past should be in the transscripts as well.

Its also the Point that today many People are still working on some VB6 Stuff. Therefore, a VB6 Certification is still interesting (?) ;-)

# David B said on October 31, 2007 5:34 PM:

I have to play devil's advocate here.  Passing the MCPD proves NOTHING.  It proves you can study and pass tests.  There are exam study "farms" out there that simply push you through the material to get one of these certifications.  Most companies I've ever dealt with might respect such a certification but beyond that don't care much or put a lot of weight on it.  Consulting companies are a different story since they can use it as a marketing tool.

Experience with projects is the #1 seller of a person's credentials...period.  I do admit that studying for the exam forced me to examine many areas that I would never have otherwise and gained some familiarity with those areas.  That's a good thing.  But, getting tested on esoteric "stuff" is pointless.  Although, there was less of that esoteric junk on these tests.

I still don't see any satisfactory answers to my questions other than "get over it"; just let it expire and don't complain.

# AM said on November 4, 2007 5:14 PM:

B"H

David B - is there a way to contact you regarding sime of the issues you raised?

thanks.

# Thomas said on November 20, 2007 5:00 PM:

@David:

yes off course, its the same thing on the Road.

you can be a good car driver without a driving license, and you can have a driving Licence without being good at - so if the driving licence proofs nothing - why we don't get rid of it ?

Because the Driving License provides an minimum of know-how. and thats the same point in IT. But in IT you can drive without licence, and you can drive without know-how - i see that every day...

You won't pass an SQL Certification without the know-how of datatypes and Foreign Keys. I often see "professional" Databases where each column is TEXT...

# Tom said on November 21, 2007 9:35 AM:

Hi,

Excuse me for my bad English.

All this MS cert things are very confusing...

I got my mcad cert suite some time ago and want to start studying again.

Preferably i would like to start from scratch (ignore mcad cert) and would like to aim for web development in the first case.

Given the release of orcas and .NET 3.5, what path is should i follow now ?

kind regards and thank you very much,

Tom.

# Dmitry Zorin said on November 24, 2007 9:48 AM:

On a slightly differenct subject:

Just how special getting any of the certifications makes me ?

That is, how many people have MCPDs, MCADs, and etc ...

Thanks

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