IEBlog

it's nice to see you're actually reading this stuff, but what would make more people more content is the following:

- tabbed browsing: when?
- fully compliant (*FULLY* compliant) to HTML 4.01/CSS 2.1: when?
- making this blog properly validate on w3, hopefully in HTML 4.01 strict so you yourselves can see how much trouble web developers go through trying to fix IE's quirks: when?

Oh, and one thing you forgot to list that has been mentioned in a few places is a MS hosted bug tracking system.

That's a pretty accurate summary as far as I am concerned. As far as the Courtney Love comment, I think the important thing to take away from that is that lots of developers are eager to get on with the "next cool tech", and it's Internet Explorer that is percieved as slowing us all down.

A detailed roadmap would be nice, but I think everybody is interested in one question most of all - is there any chance of a new version of Internet Explorer before Longhorn? Is it completely out of the question, is it likely, or are you guys still making your minds up?

Oh yeah, a bugzilla would be nice, even if it's just a standard place to list workarounds.

"People want people to download Mozilla Firefox "

THIS made me laugh!! ;) (I think the tone called for humour but I'm not sure!)

According to the IEBlog (Weblog of people who make IE):"IEv6x is the Courtney Love browser in a world of Kirsten Dunst browsers"Basically this was one of many un-/useful comments the blog has received since it started. I agree though, Courtney...

"- fully compliant (*FULLY* compliant) to HTML 4.01/CSS 2.1: when? "
You do understand that:
1) it's not possible to be fully compliant with both those standard simultaneously (they contradict each other)
2) those standards do not fully specify how a web browser must render HTML and CSS (the specifications have gaps)

ok, so HTML 4.01 and CSS2.1 contradict each other, but what about XHTML 1.1 and CSS 2.1?

Looks you understand users/possible users.

4999 employees left... ;)

Please, a date for IE7? 2007 may be? (Longhorn shipping year)

I'll be content with standard CSS2 support, without having to pull my hair out finding hacks for stuff, if nothing else the standard box model would rock.

Tabbed browsing is a cool feature but I think standards compliance is far more important.

Oh yeah, and security fixes, but that is such a nebulous requirement that it might take forever to fix it.

I switched to Firefox due to my fear of Download.Ject, but I'd move back to IE if it supported standards and was a little more secure.

Joining in the WHATWG / Web Forms 2 effort would be cool. If Microsoft really wants to show that it's a 'kinder, gentler company' that can play nice with others, joining the group that every other browser maker is using to extend the standards would be nice.

http://blogs.msdn.com/dmassy/archive/2004/07/02/172106.aspx#191357

Sorry if you already seen this one, but I wanted to make sure it was seen on the IE Blog, this has been a terrible bug or maybe a feature since IE 4 but please fix it. It has been in there way to long. If it is a feature please give me a way to turn this off, it has plagued me since IE 4.

HTML 4.01 and CSS contradict each other?

I'd like to see specific, detailed examples of how and where they contradict each other ... considering that their basic raisons d'être are different -- HTML is structural, CSS is presentational.

NOTE: presentation suggestions in the standards don't count -- because they're suggestions.

Oh and a side note or though, a quick way to turn off SMIL on a site would be nice with the advent of Pop up blocking SMIL overlaying and expanding of adds is begining to become just as Anoying as POP Ups. I can already see it becoming the new Pop up annoyance.

A mute switch would be the greatest feature ever added to a browser. A volume slider would be even better.

It has been said before, but one can't say it enough: setup some sort of bug tracking system! Like this you'll always have a todo list while you don't even have to bother maintaining the damn thing... :) Besides, then no one will complain again about you guys not listening to the webdevelopment community!

This blog seems to approach the issue with a good sense of humor, and that can only be a good think.

I look forward to any innovations that come from this interaction.

A mute switch for a browser is one of greatest ideas i heard this year.
I personally hate those flash-based websites which i need to surf through will on the phone (my pc is my phone).

Please make independend controls for each window. If combined with tabbed browsing, independend controls for each tab are neat.

I want IE to stop downloading things like .cab files when I am on a site, I really, really hate that.

Please, please, don't fix any of the bugs in the CSS parser before you fix the CSS rendering bugs.

I love Firefox, not only because of the tabs, themes, security (well -sense- of security anyway ;p) and standards compliance, but also because of the great extentions and the way they can tweak and add small details or add totally new browser features, like a chatclient or mousegestures or an RSS reader

A simular system for IE would be great, the only thing IE seems to be able to do at the moment is adding spyware and toolbars..

anyway, the best of luck with your new IE version!

A "Never Trust this company" check box, there is an "always" but not the other way around.

OH! And make an option to actually delete your temp files when closing! TweakUI says it'll do it but it never works! Firefox does this beautifully.

The pop-up blocker by Analog-X www.analogx.com is a nice tool that would integrate well into IE and could be used to prevent some trickey pop-ups.

Hey JonR... XPSP2 has two of these features ("never trust" and pop up blocker).

If you can get an improved IE before Longhorn that would be awesome. That's what I want.

Nice to see you taking the comments with an open mind and a sense of humor. I'd put my 2 cents in about IE, but it's already been said a number of times.

It would be nice to hear the devs' wishlists of what they'd like to see added/changed in IE if they had the freedom to do whatever they wanted.

-b

The easiest way to show that you care about people asking for "Standards" might be to make _this_ page validate:

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fblogs.msdn.com%2Fie%2F

I have two suggestions for the IE dev team.

1. Every member of the dev team should be *forced* to use Opera or Firefox (their choice) for a month. They can (and should) go back to IE afterwards, but during this one month period, no cheating.

2. During this time, every member of the dev team should assigned a project: reimplement a reasonably complex layout using valid CSS2 and valid HTML 4.01 Strict or XHTML 1.1. This page, microsoft.com, it doesn't matter. Get the code valid and displaying properly in Firefox/Opera. Then look at it in IE6.

Basically, at this point you've got to eat the *other guy's* dogfood for a while in order to really grok what needs to be fixed.

I vehemently HATE tabbed browsing. Please for the love of all things good, if you do add tabbed browsing to IE, allow us to take it out.

Thanks.
Sushant

Wow, MS Developer asking users what they think and what they want. And it looks that they think about it.

Unbelievable :O

I think most important things (Tabbed B., Tansparent pngs, popup block, etc.)are mentioned in the list above!

One fine thing in Firefox is that i could integrate many additional extensions and, of course, themes.

I would like to doubly and triply and quadruply emphasize what Steve said when he said "Please, please, don't fix any of the bugs in the CSS parser before you fix the CSS rendering bugs."

Wise words indeed. Web developers are depending on the bugs in the CSS parsing to work around the bugs & quirks in the CSS rendering.

I wish you the best of luck in dragging the IE6 codebase into the 21st century.

There's another 108 (and growing) features you could add to that list here http://update.mozilla.org/extensions/?application=firefox

Think the place to begin would be porting the "Firesomething" extension to IE - "IESomething": You start it and the title bar shows a random name like "Word", "Windows Explorer", "Network Neighbourhood", "Active Desktop", "Notepad" and so on. Amused users are happy users.

Without this essential feature, IE's market share will collapse within three weeks.

A programmable api (like firefox) so that 3rd party developers can create extensions and skin packages (though I admit I'm not a fan of skins, they seem popular).

I've got to ask what I hope is a moderately constructive question.

What reasons do you have for continuing development of IE over joining the Mozilla project? What can you possibly gain from releasing you own browser when you could take advantage of all the work that has been ongoing over the past couple of years. Apart from lock-in.

I am convinced that you could get *some* of your ideas accepted on merit after discussion with other Mozilla members, and you know - maybe some people with experience outside of IE not accepting all of your ideas for the browser could actually be a good thing?

Considering how little (i.e. no) money you make directly off IE I am surprised Microsoft is still considering putting in more effort - no offense and I am not suggesting that Microsoft disband the team, far from it but you know .. benefit-effort-cost and all that :)

I suddenly have hope for this blog.

However, I must disagree with this huge amount of requests for tabbed browsing. The people here are advanced surfers, but most computer users of moderate skill that I know barely opens new windows, and when they do, they certainly don't manage enough of them to warrant tabbed browsing. I think Explorer should focus on being a simple and sleek browser for the beginner and intermiedate user, and allow Firefox (or IE interfaces such as myIE2) and the like to tend to the advanced audience.

Oh, yeah, and I second (fourtheenth?) the suggestion about a bug tracker. That would be nice.

No need to request NO TABBED BROWSING.

Every browser with tabbed browsing allows single window/tabbed navigating and multiple tab navigating. People making this complaint have probably never used a tabbed browser.

this blog of your is great. You guys put some real personality across and I greatly appreciate it. To many corporate blogs don’t have as much personality. I think even google’s blog doesn’t have as much personality as yours does. Keep it up!

I believe this blog will affect the outcome of Internet Explorers' outlook completely...

oh and did i remember to say, 100% no faults Standards compliants.
No MS "special" css tricks. Just CSS in its entirety not ur CSS in the way you want it to be.

Any chance of syndicating this feed with just the legit articles and not the comments? I'd like to hear about what the IE team has to say, but I refuse to wade through over 300 comments of garbage from the Microsoft bashers. If I want to know about how wonderful Mozilla or Firefox is, I'll subscribe to a feed about them. These guys are ruining this blog right from the start.

Mouse gestures! I use them in Firefox all the time now when I'm at home, and miss them in IE when I'm at work.

"If I want to know about how wonderful Mozilla or Firefox is, I'll subscribe to a feed about them. These guys are ruining this blog right from the start."

Praise is cheap, the only way to find out what your browser needs is by looking at critisism
Which -will- include rants about the supposed superiority of Firefox/Opera/whatever, because maybe, just maybe, those browsers -are- superior in certain areas
and the IE developers might actually learn something and use it to their advantage.

"Praise is cheap, the only way to find out what your browser needs is by looking at critisism
Which -will- include rants about the supposed superiority of Firefox/Opera/whatever, because maybe, just maybe, those browsers -are- superior in certain areas
and the IE developers might actually learn something and use it to their advantage. "

That's your opinion and I posted mine. It was intended as a request to see if those of us that didn't come here for that could be spared the idocy of the posts. I'm not an RSS expert, but I would think a feed could be constructed that would spare us the syndication of the comments. Most of what I have been browsing through is NOT constructive. If that is not possible, I'll simply unsubscribe the feed. It's a shame though, I was looking forward to hear what the IE team has to say, not all of this other crap.

I applaud the effort that you guys are doing to improve IE. Especially with so many adversely negative comments. However, I must say that I am no longer an IE user. Let me specifically state why and what it would take for me to return to give you a fair chance to attract me back.

It was mainly two things that made me switch: 1) web browsing history and 2) ad blocking. For the first issue, Internet Options --> Delete Files does not delete all stored files that IE creates. Particularly bad are the many index.dat files that are always open by a process. This is where to find a few of them (not all):
Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Cookies
Documents and Settings\<UserName\Local Settings\Temp\Cookies
Documents and Settings\<UserName>\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5
Documents and Settings\<UserName> \Local Settings\Temp\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5
Documents and Settings\<UserName> \Local Settings\History\History.IE5

I do not want my typed Urls stored in the registry
(Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\TypedURLs).

Please do not store my recently opened Html (stored on disk) documents in the Recent Documents directory (the path that ::SHGetSpecialFolderPath(NULL, szPath, CSIDL_RECENT, FALSE) returns to szPath). This is an issue with Windows, but something that perhaps the IE team could work with the Windows team on.

Often temp files are not cleared out and I must manually take care of them my self.

Last year I wrote a program to automatically clear much of the above tastes (and other tasks more specific to Windows). It works, but I got tired of needing to run it to clear my history 10-15 times a day… To some (probably many) these are not important issues, but they are crucial to me.

The other issue is filtering Html prior to displaying it. There is an extension for Firefox called Adblock. I can filter stuff like ad.doubleclick.net, /ads/, *valueclick*, *googlesyndication*, *banners.*, *fastclick*, etc. out prior to loading. I have incredibly reduced the amount of advertisements from the webpages that I view, often to zero. I don’t think I could go back to a browser that did not have a similar feature or extension.

I will gladly give IE another chance when 1) I can delete _all_ of the history that IE leaves behind, and 2) when I can filter incoming Html for specific strings in Urls.

Best of luck.

One thing that I find really refreshing about MSDN blogs is the really genuine innocence of Microsoft employees - I almost feel like welcoming them to the real world. I guess what makes it weird is to read Steve Ballmer or various VPs explain features of MS software by saying, "We asked our customers what they wanted and this is it," but then the actual MS developers are totally surprised at the feedback.

Its just kind of amazing that a lot of these complaints have been circulating for years. Organizations have sprung up specifically to influence Microsoft to support web standards and help create a better IE. Its very clear that large numbers of users and developers are dissatisifed with many of IE's problems.

Of course, all that has changed. The new Microsoft loves us, listens to us, reads us bed-time stories, which is awesome and cool. Very impressive!

But one question remains: If MS employees are saying, "Well, *now* we're listening," is that a tacit admission of what has been suspected all along, that in the past at least, MS has ignored its customers? And since this is a very recent effort by Microsoft, is it reasonable to conclude that there's still a great deal of instituitional inertia that does not favor customer feedback? I guess time will tell...

I know you IE people have been taking a whole lot of shit and I would hate to be in your position, but you've got to face up to the facts. Everyone predicted that, as soon as MS won the browser wars, innovation and improvements would cease and sadly that's exactly what happened. People have every reason to be pissed off.

Let us not have any of that nonsense again.

> Most of what I have been browsing through is NOT
> constructive.

Jerry, yes, there are many comments that are not really constructive, but the majority is about standard compliance and this is (IMHO) very constructive.

--Thomas

1. Copying features (tabbed etc.) is not going to cut it (don't need a clone of (firefox...). But there is some(lot of?) catching up to do (standards, security))
2. think and deliver next generation
3. Support Win2000, WinNT, Win98... (we paid $s too)
4. Need it now. and not in 2005 with Longhorn

+ fine grain control over cookie management (if I set my IE cookie handling o HIGH, Hotmail does not work! You can surely fix that)

Scott,
You forgot some BIG ones on that list!
1. Make all changes available for Windows 2000 also.
2. Make all changes available for Windows 2000 also.
3. Make all changes available for Windows 2000 also.
4. Make all changes available for Windows 2000 also.
5. Make all changes available for Windows 2000 also.

Comments continue to be added to the discussion of your previous post. You may want to read through the new ones, as some are constructive comments with worthwhile information. If you guys get serious about fixing the problems in IE, you can still win back a lot of the people you're now losing. Obviously, the fanboy crowd is a lost cause, but you never really had them to begin with. Their numbers are dwarfed by those who will use whichever product best fits their needs. Right now, I think it's tough to contend that's the case for just about anyone.

Add application/xhtml+xml to the registry, I know you can do it and it would stop people (standards geeks admittedly) moaning about XHTML 1.0 being parsed as tag soup ([HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\Accepted Documents] people)

Disclaimer: registry hacking is bad for your health!

Oh yeah, if you could make attribute seletors in CSS2 work properly please.

Here's one thing that doesn't seem to have been mentioned. Make loading ActiveX objects transparent. Or something.

What I'm really saying is save me from having to write the following:

if(window.ActiveXObject) {
var oXMLHTTP = new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP");
} else {
var oXMLHTTP = new XMLHttpRequest();
}

Just let me write the latter, which is more cross browser compatible.

Developers need a quick and polished 'standards based' browser.

Who needs such snott when there are such great alternatives.

Why have I wasted so much time here?

....microsoft marketing wins again...

Making the IE team use Opera or Firefox and then have to go back to IE is a brilliant idea! Be sure to make them pay some bills and buy some products online.

Initially I moved to Firefox and Thunderbird to avoid all the security holes and to help wean myself off windows-centric applications so the move to Linux would be easier (and it was).

When I first tried Firefox, I wondered what the big deal was about, okay so it's smaller and faster, it's just rendering web pages isn't it? but the more you use it, and the more you try out the various extensions (seen the Web Developer extension?), the more impressive it becomes, and the crappier IE looks. Pretty sad that it's a v6 vs pre-v1 product and the pre-v1 wins hands down.

Except for the security patches, MS should give up on IE (everyone else has) and suck the brains of the Firefox developers, and then start on IE.NET using a similar design approach: a small fast standards based browser which is extensible and customisable.

You've forget one point: "Upgrading an entire OS to use a simply pached Browser is a bad idea."

In addition to what's listed (FAQ? <g> ):

1) Have an HTML safe mode

For better or worse (I'd say worse):
- you are using HTML as "generic rich text"
- email "messages"
- readmes and .chm help system
- CD-ROM Autorun "front doors"
- active desktop and "view as web page"
HTML has these basic risks:
- active content by design (scripts, ActiveX etc.)
- active content through code defects (holes)
- links with misleading pseudo-URL text on top
- other, e.g. IFrame, zone leaks, cookies, remote pull-downs

Forcing plain text in OE isn't enough - ppl disable it as too "tight".

Instead, you want a system-wide HTML mode that:
- suppresses all active content
- does not pull down remote material
- repeats links explicitly after the overlying text
- only the explicit link is clickable

And duh, don't process scripts in cookies, no matter what zone.

2) Expect paradoxical zone settings

For example, expect folks to set "My Computer" zone as
tight as Restricted - so take any reverse zone leakage
(e.g. reaching local HD via LAN shares) seriously.

3) Show zone and allow on-the-fly lockdown

Take Windows Explorer's "view" drop-down as an example
of how this UI might work; let the user drop into a higher
(or lower?) zone on the fly, perhaps with an option to "always
process this URL in this zone" (add URL to zone)

You may do (3) differently, i.e. choosing from user-defined
templates that are unrelated to zones, e.g. the built-in High,
Medium and Low plus user-defined.

4) Be careful what you make scriptable

I know the temptation; what you let the user do interactively,
sysadmins want to automate - and the next thing every web
site and malware is automating the same thing. So what starts
as meaningful user control degenerates to mere "Simon Says"
inconvenience for web sites and malware.

5) Wean web developers off the right to program PCs

Web sites, unsolicied mail "messages" and "documents"
should never have been granted even the slightest ability to
program visitor's PCs. After that blunder, it's crazy to have
expected things not to have gone wrong. As MS's own advice
says, "if the bad guy can run code..."

So we need these "content providers" to give up the rights
they are currently enjoying. Start by setting a safer standard
we can live with (aspire to zero client-side programming) and
offer that as a "safer site" logo thing. Web sites that comply
can display the "safer site" logo that links to a blurb on why
un-logo'd sites should be treated with caution, etc.

On tabbed browsing:

Yes, it's a must-have; MDI was a good idea, and still is.

But you need both "open in a new window" and "open in
a new tab", i.e. not force one or the other.

Dial-up users hate waiting for the same page to load, so
after a Google, they flick open links in new windows. But
what if you run three different Google searches at once,
or visit a site that does the usual spoonful of content and
"next...", or an MS /kb that has "more..." links?

A combo of new windows and tabs lets you group related
pages together on an ad-hoc basis, i.e. you might kick
a search's links as tabs in the same window except for a
monster page that starts in a window of its own with its
links as tabs in that window.

The most pathetic thing was MS Office losing MDI to stay
dumbed-down to IE's limitations. Never again, please.

Smaller duhfault IE web cache, PLEASE!!

WTF is the point of a 500M web cache?

* Any connection fast enough to populate that
within a few days doesn't need caching for speed.

* Any connection slow enough to need caching will
take days to populate even a 50M cache.

As it is, every user account has its own bloated cache that
collects thousands of small files that take weeks to purge
themselves off the system. Hullo, defrag.

Not IE territory, but also crucial: Need to preset settings in
the template from which new accounts are created - else
ability to spawn new accounts becomes a support nightmare.

Tabbed browsing is something I sorely miss in IE. It makes life so much easier. Ever have your whole CS, Ultra-Edit (tabbed coding :P), five Windows Explorer-windows, iTunes (less RAM-usage than WMP!) and maybe some Messenger-windows in your taskbar? I have. Every day. And then, tabbed browsing saves lives if you have about 15 sites opened.
The Web Developer Toolbar really is my favourite extension, especially editing CSS on the fly is fun and handy.

How about an easier way to whitelist activex controls? There's an "administrator approved only" option in security settings, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to make a control "approved".

Additionally, the whitelist should be configurable by regular (non-admin) users, with the ability to override it in group policy.

Can I add another feature not mentioned here: same level as webstandards behaviour as Mozilla and Opera and Safari? I guess it has not been mentioned yet :-)

And if a rule in the CSS specs are a bit ambigoues, it would be nice if a future release/update of IE would behave exactly as Mozilla, Opera and Safari on that spec. Before every webcoder gets bald from pulling their hair out.
You as a company have won the browser war, no need to do tings differently anymore.

And if you want to add another ton of features on top of it, be my guest. Some of them might drip over to other browsers.

More...


* Make IE 100% compliant to W3C Standards
* Tabs, pleeeeeeeease, tabs!
* Remove support for VBScript (is very anoying)
* Support Mozilla-like javascript features
* Something like Mozilla's XUL

* Tabs tabs tabs tabs. Newbies would have a much easier time dealing with multiple browser windows with tabs. Win XP's taskbar group is similar, but can be confusing. Make the behavior configurable easily.
* Make VBScript support disabled by default;
* Lock the durn thing down! Let users enable features only as-needed and give sufficient warnings when they enable something that is a security risk
* Performance Updates. There is an endless stream of Security Updates describing how IE is potentially going to hand out free copies of my credit cards and allow anyone to take control of my life, er, computer. Instead of making us all wait til 2007 for Longhorn's IE, start issuing Performance Updates to IE 6.
* Standards support.
* Standards support, especially for CSS 2.
* Standards support. Why on earth is a rag-tag band of rebels able to make browsers that make IE look old and slow? Word is getting out among the general populace too - e.g. many non-tech acquaintances of mine are switching to Mozilla. And the browser is a gateway drug, you know. Next thing, they'll convince their bosses to use OpenOffice...

Lastly, it was pointed out earlier that your blog does not validate with the doctype specified - HTML 4.0 transitional - a standard that is years old. Can developers be expected to be credulous about where you stand with regard to web standards when your primary communication venue doesn't even validate to a minimum standard? This blog is great, but the code it produces is as much part of the message as the postings' content.

On a positive note, it's great to have this venue for communication!

TABS Please TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABS!!!!!!

" It's a shame though, I was looking forward to hear what the IE team has to say, not all of this other crap. "

I think we both agree actually...
the IE team -needs- the input from Firefox users to know why they switched and what features they liked (nothing wrong with 'borrowing' some features ;p )

the crap posts like "omg IE suxx0r -- F1r3F0X=13373r!!1" are another thing though.
this -is- a blog and your posts go directly to a real living person working for Microsoft who happens to be in the new IE team.
Why would you spam this guy's blog? what the hell did -he- do to you?
there haven't that a lot of those kind of posts yet, though.

well that's the way I look at it anyway =)

right. let's retry that sentence:
there haven't BEEN a lot of those kind of posts yet, though.

o_X

(Nearly) all of the Above and: Just use the VS.NET UI for IE!
It is really nice to customize and it allows tabbed Browsing. But when the UI is in "tabbed mode", all Popups are opened in maximum Size; if you switch to "mdi mode", you can not enjoy the tabs...

It would be nice to have multiple, flexible-positionable Sidebars (like tool-Windows), ability to place Toolbars everywhere (bottom, left, top, right) and (for the n00bs of us): skinning, but with the ability to disable (because I hate skins...)

Just a small suggestion... I am not sure about the people with normal eyesight, but I have to wear thick glasses to see stuff and for me fixed fonts set by web-designers that are better described as web-disasters are royal pain in the ass to cope with.

The improvement is as easy as that - please move "ignore font size' settings somewhere to the front end, to the menus I suppose - the way it is done in other browsers.... font sizing setup available in "View" menu doesn't resize the fonts with fixed size set at the moment, and inefficient approach used in "ignore font sizes" option ignores all the font sizes completely instead of ignoring fixed ones, and only fixed ones, rendering normal sites unreadable or not comfortable to read... getting to the dialog boxes depth to switch this option every 5 minutes is a PITA :(

Before you develop new version of IE (I thing it's impossible to preserve backward compatibility and complience standards), People will land on Mars.

I really don't understand why are you spending time to develop something new when you easily could implement Gecko engine, or buy Opera engine.

I thing IE is dead, most people know this, you cannot do browser that correctly show page coded for IE6, you have to make totally new browser. And you know, the develop of new broser engine take 5 years at minimum.

built-in SVG supprot would be cool - I'd be happy if at least SVG Tiny will be implemented - soon it will be common feature of new cell phones so why not do it in "normal" PC browsers?

Oh Please for the Love of GOD put in Distrust this Wbesite (zone) option for certificates. If you say no you are prompted a bazillion times to install the damn thing then most people get tired of clicking No and they click yes. This will prevent at least 80% of spyware/adware from being installed on systems.

Welcome to the fishbowl, guys.

Let the games begin. ;-)

--
Ben Goodger
Lead Engineer, Mozilla Firefox

so you have "inventarised" in a nice short list.
but can you make a post now in which you adress which issues you'll take up and which issues you won't take up?

it is not very clear, nor any improvement in "the openness of the IE team" if you just 'mirror' what people say and then continue working without really adressing some issues and taking a stance.

Jan.

Overwhelming Response So Microsoft is slowly getting the picture. It seems that now they have a blog for Internet Explorer. They are starting to acknowledge that "Yes", people do think its a bad idea to integrate things into the OS. "Yes" please release a version 7. There were a lot more, but why am I pointing out these points? Well, mainly because Microsoft has said that from their "so-called" research, that people in general want the opposite, or in the best interests of consumers. An integrated browser, no standalone browser, ie no IE7 for previous and current release of Windows....

Good. You have got the idea. Now all you have to do is implement all that stuff as well as set up a road map for including support for standards yet to be recommended when they are recommended such as XHTML 2.0 and CSS3 (and not half a decade+ later) and I'll be happy.

And also cut IE out of Windows so others Windows Pre-Longhorn can have the yet-to-arrive-good IE. Or make another product like "Windows Explorer" (well....maybe something else as that is taken) like you did with "Windows Messenger" and "MSN Messenger" so avoid the lawyers :P.

Anyway, good to hear you finally have to idea. Go get 'em, Microsoft.

"No need to request NO TABBED BROWSING. "

---Acutally I want stress it again so Tabbed browsing is not made into a standard.

I hate, I say again, I HATE tabbed browsing. I want to see multiple pages simultaneously withouth having to tab through. If IE even installs with tabs and even if it has an option to take it off, I will stop using IE and write my own.

No Tabs Not Tabs No Tabs. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.


"Every browser with tabbed browsing allows single window/tabbed navigating and multiple tab navigating. People making this complaint have probably never used a tabbed browser. "

----I have use Firefox but I dont like the UI or the options UI. If I can't find an option within 10 seconds, I will not use the product. Intuitive UI is very important.


ALSO, how about an option of disabling New Window() or Dialog Box() (something to the effect).

Thanks guys.

Oh I forgot to mention.

Sometimes I get asked to install Macromedia AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. How about a DONT ASK ME FOREVER option in the dialog boxes.

Another thing. I could at max have 62 open IE windows before it crashed. My machine is 2.7Ghz, 1 GB Ram, Win Xp Pro. Can u make it work for up to 150 on the same specs?

What about Blog support for IE. Sometimes I put blogs onto my Favourites list and then have to go back and manage them every week when the list becomes too big. I would like to see a type of favorite where I can bookmark a blog for up to a week. Then after that, the blog will be removed from the list.


Also how about adding custom notes to pages. When IE sees a page that has a note attached to it, it will display that note. That way I can keep track of the many web site notes I make. Save me from writing them down using notepad.


Thanks.

Hi there,

Of all the suggestions above, I couldn't find the following (maybe I just don't know how to do it correctly) - can you make IE remember the View->Text Size setting. That's 3 clicks every time I start the browser I'd be about to save.

Cheer,
James.

A lot of the stuff above is vvery important, and I think someone said something similar in the middle there, but I'm going to rephrase it.
Microsoft Internet Explorer is the default browser for Windows. Mrs. Average doesn't want tabbed browsing and a squillion skins to keep her eyes glazed... What she wants is a browser that she can handle to search for knitting patterns and collectable porcelain dolls. If Professor Power User wants to use his browser with auto-organising tabs, an RSS feed reader, and an office assistant, why can't he just download the relevant extension, and have it install. I know this is kind of in the 'exploitable' realm, but surely the R&D team can come up with some intuitive way around this? The default browser should be simple, fast, easy, and secure. Leave the fancy tools to those who know what they're doing.

The other issues of standards support, and security are both also extreeemely essential, as I'm sure you've already understood. The only thing stopping me going deeply into this are the few hundred posts up there that say the same thing.

Now, I'm no avid Microsoft fan, but I just had to put in my two cents. I know my mother would confused to the point of having question marks sprouting her ears if she had to re-learn her browsing habits. That in mind, something fresh is always a good thing. ;-)

Now the Internet Explorer team is resurrected, I wonder what will happen with the product. The latest version -- IE6 -- hasn't been updated for a while and is only patched for security reasons. I think Microsoft came to realise...

> Sometimes I get asked to install Macromedia AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. How about a DONT ASK ME FOREVER option in the dialog boxes.

If you are using Microsoft Windows XP, install service pack 2 when it comes out. Instead of a popup window asking you to install a plugin, a toolbar appears at the top. That's a lot easier to ignore.

This blog is great, and I want to see more from the MS developers.

It irritates me when people criticise IE in (most) other techy blogs. I've even seem some blogs which encourage people to design for Mozilla, Opera etc and disregard IE. What a ridiculous attitude! These people have lost the meaning of the web.

The internet used to be a techy playground for geeks but it is so much more than that now. The w3c, in my opinion, has had it's day. We've been waiting for CSS3 for ages.. and it appears the w3c has just become a glorified online discussion board for self-proclaimed 'internet experts.' Mozilla and their ilk are guilty of rendering bugs and also proprietary CSS (see http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=4753). The hypocrisy is dreadful.

Microsoft released innovations like htc behaviours years ago - a model that uses the CSS DOM to propogate javascript behaviour through a website. That was, and still is, way ahead of its time. Also the powerful filter classes (IE4+, 1997) should have become the defacto standard. But no, Mozilla, Opera etc have to have their own way. "MozOpacity" -- what a joke! I say, the w3c should be enforcing the standards that MS have made de-facto over their many years of hard work and research into internet technology

[Snickers at all of the so-called arguments against tabbed browsing] [rolls eyes]

Perhaps an IE "Developer Edition" is a good idea (that wasn't an invite to charge for it-- keep it free guys), featuring a Javascript console, and other advanced features for developers.

A feature I'd like to see is the ability to synchonize Favorites with third party browsers via an option in the Internet Options panel. I do a lot of opening and closing of Mozilla, Opera and IE, I use Mozilla as my primary browser, so having my favorites available on all three would be an immensely convienient feature. More importantly is the ability to synchronize with Gecko rather than Opera. And since the Gecko bookmarks are stored in a plain HTML file, it wouldn't be an incredibly difficult feature to add.

The ability to mangage and access Favorites from either or would be fantastic. Of course I'm not suggesting to change the way it already handles Favorites, but a feature in addition to or instead of. Also, if such a feature is added, it would be nice if it is more than just importing, I stress the ability to synchronize, both access and management would be ideal.

> I've even seem some blogs which encourage people to design for Mozilla, Opera etc and disregard IE. What a ridiculous attitude!

I agree, but I haven't seen that attitude. What I have seen are people encouraging people to design for browsers that conform to the various specifications, and merely do the minimum necessary to make sure that the website works for people who use broken browsers such as Internet Explorer. Are you sure you aren't confusing the two viewpoints?

> We've been waiting for CSS3 for ages.

What are you talking about? CSS 3 is a group of specifications. Many of those specifications have already been finished and are available in their final form as recommendations. Others are at candidate recommendation stage, which means they are ready for implementing. Mozilla and Opera developers are already implementing these specifications.

If you are impatient at not being able to use CSS 3, you need to look in Microsoft's direction. The specifications are there for them to implement, and they haven't finished implementing the six year-old CSS 2 specification, let alone any of the CSS 3 specifications!

> Mozilla and their ilk are guilty of rendering bugs

"Mozilla and their ilk" implement the vast majority of the CSS 2 specification, contain a few bugs, and have people working on solving them.

Internet Explorer misses out entire sections of the CSS 2 specification, contains numerous, page-destroying bugs, and has not had any work done on the rendering engine for years.

There is a *massive* difference between the two situations. What we are seeing here is Microsoft beginning to work on Internet Explorer again, and I am pleased about that. But it doesn't change the fact that Internet Explorer was effectively abandoned and is nowhere near as capable as its competitors.

> and also proprietary CSS (see http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=4753).

Every proprietary CSS property that I am aware of that is implemented by a non-Internet Explorer user-agent is prefixed with an -id- prefix to ensure there are no conflicts with future specifications. Internet Explorer, on the other hand, doesn't bother to prefix their proprietary properties. This means that future specifications either have to obey Microsoft's rules when adding properties with those names, or avoid those names completely, lest they break things.

I am not concerned with properties that are properly shielded from interfering with future specifications. I would not complain if Microsoft added more proprietary properties as long as they do not interfere with future specifications.

Furthermore, the examples you give of Mozilla's and KHTML's opacity properties *are part of CSS 3*. The only thing that makes them "proprietary" are the names - their initial implementations have been shielded from the public as when they were first introduced, the CSS 3 specification that deal with the opacity property was not yet at a stable stage. Once the specification and implementations are stable, you will see them simply renamed as 'opacity' and not '-khtml-opacity' etc.

Please note that you are criticising the Gecko and KHTML developers for implementing a W3C specification that has two Microsoft employees listed as authors, when Internet Explorer has used proprietary syntax instead! And you simultaneously criticise the W3C for not being quick enough about CSS 3!

http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-color/#transparency

CSS 3 is here, it is being implemented, and you are seeing people criticise Microsoft for not getting around to finishing their CSS 2 implementation. That is not hypocrisy, that is frustration.

I am a happy Internet Explorer User. The browser is intuitive, simple, and integrates nicely into my Windows OS.

It would be great if I could customize my browser with small applications, like have stock tickers integrated, or a blog dialog where I can just insert text and hit a button to publish it. Take the toolbar thing further :-)

In the future, I would like to do more work with the browser instead of using separate applications. Example: integrated pim services.

Also, I want to see good identity management. I don't get how it works right now.

What about the similarly old and barely updated Outlook Express? It seems that everyone is talking about Internet Explorer but what about Outlook Express. When is it going to be updated with new and much needed features? Or, Outlook Express has been forgotten?
For me a spam filter should have been added long ago. Most users use Outlook Express. It is the most popular e-mail client. Shouldn't it have a spam filter. Especially since Microsoft is so much interested about our security and privacy these days. Why should we buy Outlook 2003 to get spam filtering? Mozila include spam filters and for free. Mozila is not only a browser but it includes an e-mail application and it is time to look at the other features it has that Outlook Express might lack. Is adding a spam filter to Outlook Express so difficult? Everybody needs it. When I heard that MS was preparing a security update to XP, the upcoming sp2, I was astonished to find out that although you were claiming that the security features, like attachment blocking, that MS were adding to Outlook Express were fantastic, yet no spam filter was thought of, which should have been the first thing to be added.
What about other updates that Outlook Express needs? And why should the simplest updates only be available via a service pack, like XP sp2?

Just curious, is any of the (above outlined) requested features news to you people? Anything at all? If so, please explain how you were able to avoid learning about that.

Disable third-party browser extensions (aka BHOs) and ActiveX by DEFAULT, but give users the option to enable manually, not automatically. BHOs are one of the worst killers of a PC.

Make a built-in popup blocker.

I think this is a great way to help make IE much better than it already is.

I do disagree with some of the features people want, most specifically tabbed browsing and their distaste towards OS integration.

OS Integration is a nice feature because it standardizes operation of the operating system to that of working on the internet. Much like the domain structure of Windows 2000, I find it helps make things have a much better feel--no matter in which environment you are working in (local or network-based).

Tabbed browsing isn't exactly the greatest feature, though I do use Opera and it utilizes tabbed browsing. I haven't found it really 'helps' me browse the web more than IE, after all, with taskbar grouping in Windows XP, it doesn't really have a problem with a gazillion Windows open anymore as was a problem in previous versions of Windows.

Let's hope we can all work together to make the most used browser to being the best.

-Mike
Future MCSA

I think it is very important that ie stays simple. Minimum Menus and buttons. Why do you think Mozilla FireFox is far more popular to Mozilla's Flagship all in one web/mail/editor/news/messanger/etc. The best software is simple software, that doesn't need any explaining, it just works. A web browser only needs to display web pages properly, nothing else.

An can i suggest you also start a OE Blog? Nothing personal but that has more holes than IE

THe people who are advoocating against tabs:

In Mozilla and Firefox, you don't need to use tabs. As a matter of fact, unless you ACTIVELY do something to get them, you'll never see one. Yo only get tabs when you middle click, shift click , or use the Ctrl+T command. Otherwise, you can use mozilla just like IE.

So basically, your arguments are a moot point. If IE does enable tabs similar to Mozilla, you'd never know unless someone told you. You obviously never really tried a browser with tabs

Did anybody mention full support of W3C standards?

Wb developing is a Hell because of IE bugs.

Please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please etcetera.

Aim for full HTML, XHTML & CSS2.1 compliance.

You won't get there, but put the effort in and you'll get most of the way.

And if the are discrepancies or gaps in the standards, have a chat with the Mozilla org, Opera, Apple and the W3C and see if an agreement can be made for a way forward and inclusion in future standards. It's easy if you try...

Users across the world will, if not straight away, benefit from improved web sites that work across platforms and browsers.

It's important, and I for one am not interested in any propriatary (sp?) extensions in IE.

Thanks for starting to do some work on IE. As you have now seen for yourself the web IS imprtant so thats why it is nice you found the IE development folder somewhere in your desktop. Who had it by the way? The CSS support for IE5 Mac was one big step in the right direction. So I know you can do exellent if you want.

Make open standards work in new IE or and stick to them. CSS, PNG, XHTML. At least fix render bugs in the upcoming servicepack for XP.

It doesnt matter if some stuff you make up is better (like the CSS boxmodel) keep in line. My customers are tierd of paying me for develop fallbacks, hacks & tricks for things that is suppose to be simple.

After work, write 100 times on the blackboard:

"I will never defy the W3C"
"I will never defy the W3C"
"I will never defy the W3C"
"I will never defy the W3C"
...

Until explorer supports standards as good as Mozilla and friends:-D:-D

One important issue about everyone's favorite issue "full compliance with standards": it is frequently at odds with another important priority, BACKWARDS COMPATABILITY.

How many websites out there in the "wild" have code blocks that look something like:

if (window.navigator.appName.toLowerCase().indexOf("microsoft") > -1) {
doIt One Way;
}
else {
doIt Another Way;
}

Didn't have to go far... this is code from THIS PAGE.

So if MS browsers have always worked a certain way (deemed "wrong" by all the posters here), then they change the way IE interprets common code, then what percentage of websites will it break? 25%? 75%? 99%?!?!

What's the solution? I dunno. Maybe return a new unique phrase for window.navigator.appname that doesn't include the word "microsoft" ? (not likely).

I would very much like to hear the MS IE team's response to this issue along with the larger issue of standards compliance.

Brad Corbin,

Do you have reason to believe that IE would suddenly stop working the old way? Yes, browser sniffing is stupid, but there is no inherent conflict here.

Also, non-compliance is deemed by the *W3C*, who define the lingua franca (as soon as IE plays ball) of the web, so that HTML is HTML. Without this, we'd have a web built entirely from Word documents, PDF files, and Flash, and no one could build a website without spending large amounts of cash for proprietary development tools.

Venting will not go on forever.

: )

A lot of press has been given to Mozilla/Firefox's tabbed browsing. Blah! It's better than IE's open a new window and clutter up my taskbar style navigation to be sure.

But I think the best kept secret to Browser UIs has gone largly unknown. I certainly haven't seen any mention of it here.

If you want the perfect IE7 user interface, something that can compete with Mozilla out the gate that won't take until 2008 to develop, then look at iRider (www.irider.com). This little shell extension for IE has the most innovative browser user interface I've ever seen, and I've seen a LOT! Among it's most usful features is a side-bar based navigation system that is like a cross between tabbed browsing and the history navigation in IE. It makes Mozilla's basic tabbed browsing look stone-aged!

After a year of working with iRider I find I absolutly can not live without it's navigation system (though I modify the settings so that new tabs are only created when I right-click). In fact, out of all the bazillion side-bars various browsers have included, iRider is the first and only browser to ever offer anything in a side-bar that was worth giving up the horizont