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Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

We’ve just confirmed an issue that has started to be reported on newsgroups and forums that after installing Netscape 8 the XML rendering capabilities of Internet Explorer no longer work. That means that if you navigate in IE to an XML file such as an RSS feed http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/rss.xml or an XML file with an XSLT transformation applied then rather than seeing the data you are presented with a blank page.

We currently have the following work around for people that are hitting this issue:

  1. Uninstall Netscape 8
  2. START->RUN
    1. Type: regedit
    2. Hit ENTER
    3. Navigate to the following:
    4. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Plugins\Extension
    5. Highlight and right-click the node titled "xml" and select delete.
    6. Restart Internet Explorer

Unfortunately if Netscape 8 remains installed then the registry key is continually rewritten so this is an essential step if you are to be able to view XML content in IE.

We are currently continuing our investigation and are looking forward to working with Netscape to resolve this issue.
Thanks
-Dave

Published Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:23 PM by ieblog
Filed under:

Comments

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:57 PM by Tony
I really don't want to sound cynical, sarcastic or satirical, but that is one hell of a way to prevent users from switching to another browser.

Are you guys absolutely sure it's a conflict with IE? I'm assuming then that the XML/XSLT works fine in Netscape 8 and may choose to use it as the main browser, thus ignoring IE?

I really am looking forward to IE7, so I hope you guys can find a fix for IE6 and include it in IE7 as well.

And since you guys can read the hundreds of requests on this blog alone for full W3C standards support in IE7, I won't request it again ;) .

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:14 PM by snowknight
I didn't think Netscape could get any worse. At the moment, can you say why they did this? I can't think of any reason since the gecko xml parser should work just find for anything they need, and I don't recall this issue with the betas. Maybe its a bug in some custom xslt parser?

The worse part is that this hurts them as well. The xml feed you posted doesn't work in Netscape 8. Well, to clarify, it doesn't if Netscape is using Trident.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:23 PM by Chloe
Why the hell are Netscape writing registry entries under Internet Explorer's section? This after releasing "the most secure browser ever" with known holes in?

Yes, it uses Trident underneath, but it's a fully fledged app, not a plugin.

Shows once again that it was Netscape incompetence that led to IE's dominance, not monopoly "abuse".

PS If there are any Netscape browser developers reading this, your UI is pathetic.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:23 PM by Chris Beach
Cue endless conspiracy theories about MS's "dirty tactics"

Honestly, the rubbish you have to put up with.. my heart goes out to you guys. Keep up the good work with IE7

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:29 PM by Doug Wright
I've got NS8 installed, and can view the supplied link just fine in IE... (SP2)

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:45 PM by Jean-Marc, XP Geek !
Does this problem breaks windows update ?

And if yes, what's the error message displayed ?

TIA

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 2:59 PM by snowknight
@Doug Wright
Is that first release or the patched version? I have the former and it doesn't work at all on XP SP2.

After reading your post, I went back and loaded the blog entry then the links. IE stayed the same, but Netscape generated a different output, an image icon. I wish it'd make up it's mind.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:05 PM by Torrent
Find the new netscape on http://www.madtorrent.com/find.php/netscape/

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 3:15 PM by Doug Wright
@snowknight

I've got 8.0 installed.

The feed page works just fine in IE, Firefox, NS8/Gecko and NS8/IE.

Shrug

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:01 PM by ant
This raises the question of why the registry has no security in the first place.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:25 PM by Vincent
Ant: What do you mean by "no security"? You can ACL any part of the registry to restrict it as you wish. ACLs are apply to user accounts (and the apps running under them).

If you wanted to "secure" the registry to prevent Netscape from writing to the IE portion, you'd have to run IE from a different account (different "token") than Netscape -- that way IE could access its portion and Netscape could access its portion. Is that what you mean?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:45 PM by zzz
Vincent I think that was quite valid question. Even MS says people shouldn't modify MS's registry settings and offer that option only for troubleshooting. Why should programs go change IE or other OS settings unless user specifically wanted such to happen?

I think this clearly points out a flaw in the system. In LH no doubt any program trying to change other programs or the OS registry settings will just find these changes disappear when the program is restarted.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:50 PM by i5mast
That's it! I've been stumped by this problem as my xml with xsl transformation stopped working (blank page).
Thank you!

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 4:54 PM by Randy Charles Morin
And now we know why the Moz codebase struggled under AOL stupidity.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 5:23 PM by Tom Revans
Randy eh ;)

# Netscape 8 breaks IE

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:05 PM by Ed Bott - Windows (and Office) Expertise
This would be funny if it weren't so ironic. OK, it's funny. We’ve just confirmed an issue that has started to be reported on newsgroups and forums that after installing Netscape 8 the XML rendering capabilities of Internet Explorer no longer work. To paraphrase the old Microsoft-bashing line: "Netscape ain't done...

# There's Netscape, and then there's Netscape

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:08 PM by Kelson
First, it looks like Netscape 8 doesn't handle XML either when using Trident. So it trashes it for both Netscape and IE.

Second, to Chloe and anyone else wanting to take potshots at old-school Netscape: This browser was not actually developed by the same company or people that developed Netscape 1-4 or even Netscape 6-7. AOL effectively dissolved that company two years ago (it exists in name only), and they outsourced development of NS8 to a company called Mercurial Communications.

The "heir" of Netscape, the company, is essentially the Mozilla Foundation, and the heirs of Netscape, the browser, are Mozilla and Firefox. You'll note that neither of these disables features of IE.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 6:38 PM by Kevin Daly
Sorry, I can't resist one little potshot at old-school Netscape: this takes me back to the days when Navigator was still my preferred browser and IE was not yet its equal - but if I was rash enough to uninstall an instance of Netscape it charmingly took half of Windows 95 with it (on the apparent assumption that "if Netscape doesn't need something anymore, *nothing* needs it").

Those were the days.

# Why can't they just let it die!!

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:01 PM by Adham Shaaban
Now that they've turned the brand into a portal and a low-cost ISP, and with all the Firefox/Mozilla variations out there I seriously can't understand why AOL doesn't just let the Netscape browser die? Why would anyone out there still be using it anyway?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:03 PM by Chloe
To Kelson:

Regarding 'new' Netscape, well they've obviously learnt the lessons of why they once failed. Not. Their UI is inconsistent and ugly.

And the 'old' Netscape ethos continues to pervade the Mozilla Foundation today. Their software is buggy and bloated.

It's obvious to the most casual observer that Firefox UI is orders of magnitude better than that of IE6, but that is (relatively) minor to correct. After which, there will be no compelling reason to use it.

Like other open standards extremists Mozilla are too insular. They should work on what end users want (UI) instead of what a whiny minority of web developers want.

Instead of using Flash which is installed on 97% of computers they insist on implementing SVG. How many pages do you know of that use VML, let alone SVG? And Mozilla are more than happy to 'embrace and extend' - think of 'moz-' in CSS.

Rest assured that the old Netscape idiocy is alive and well, both at Netscape and Mozilla, just with better marketing.

# Speaking as a whiny web developer...

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 7:35 PM by Kelson
I'm really looking forward to IE7, which, from what I hear, should have better support for things like alpha-transparent PNG images, more CSS2 capabilities, etc., that I would have loved to be able to use over the last few years when something like 5% of the browsers out there supported them. I'm tired of leaving out nifty features because they "only" work in Mozilla, Opera and Safari. I'm tired of writing code based on the published specifications and finding that the world's most popular browser does something strange with it, like requiring an empty paragraph at the end of the page in order to make a border visible. I'm sure it will take several years for everyone to migrate, but I would like to think that (a) IE 7 will improve matters and (b) enough people will upgrade that us "whiny web developers" can just build pages instead of hacking around zillions of browser incompatibilities.

Of course, I won't be able to use it at work, since we're standardized on Windows 2000.

As for "Netscape" learning why "they" failed before -- Netscape 8 is made by all new people. AFAIK they've never built a web browser before. Ever. They're not even *called* Netscape. AOL hired outside people and tacked the name on the browser. And I agree with you that they don't seem to have done a good job.

Firefox being "buggy and bloated?" I disagree, but that's a matter of opinion. I can only think of one FF bug that's given me problems since it hit 1.0, but you may have run into others. And "bloat" is simply a synonym for "features I don't use." One person's bloat is another person's make-or-break requirement.

Mozilla-specific CSS extensions: You're kidding, right? The whole reason they begin with "moz-" is to discourage people from using them outside the browser UI or experimental sites. It deliberately *avoids* the classic "embrace and extend" technique, which involves taking a published standard, extending it, and getting people to *depend on* your extensions.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 8:32 PM by Jeff Schiller
To Chloe:

"Instead of using Flash which is installed on 97% of computers they insist on implementing SVG."

Are you talking about natively supporting Flash? Why would any browser do this when there is a perfectly good (and as you say, well-deployed) proprietary plugin available?

If you're not talking about Firefox supporting Flash natively, then what do you mean by "Instead of using Flash...they insist on implementing SVG"? How would Mozilla "use Flash" to improve the browser?

I guess I misunderstood your comment.

Regards,
Jeff Schiller

P.S. Sorry for continuing the side distraction of the relevant issue regarding Netscape 8's recent bug.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Wednesday, May 25, 2005 10:18 PM by Brian Sexton
It is great that you are providing a way for people to restore Internet Explorer to its full state of functionality in case they are inclined to do so, but considering that Internet Explorer chokes on XML prologs and application/xhtml+xml content, does it really matter if its XML support is completely broken rather than remaining partly broken and partly obsolete?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:50 AM by Chloe
To Kelson:

Firefox is bloated because it eats memory like no tomorrow, and then refuses to release it. It actually has a reasonably sparse feature set, which is good, but with Deer Park it seems to be moving towards bloat like SVG. Even worse the bloat is 'behind the scenes' - there will be next to no UI improvements.

And Mozilla is perfectly capable of proprietary extensions. See their prefetch for another example.

To Jeff Schiller:

Whether things are implemented as a plugin or natively is pointless semantics when it is implemented on > 97% of installs. Instead of improving what works (ie Flash), SVG is a overengineered bloated hog. But what more can you expect when it's designed by committee vote?

I really hope IE doesn't implement SVG natively, because that will effectively kill SVG fad dead in the water. It's time for MS to impose their authority.

Realise this: no-one in the 'real world' outside militant webmasters cares about standards. They don't care about corner cases like Acid2. People want a browser which shows their pages. Webmasters are of course forced to test their pages, coding around corner cases if necessary, and so there are no problems.

Back on topic, I can't see any possible reason whatsoever to use Netscape. It's awful. The "website rating" security device is performed far far better with tools like Netcraft or Spoofstick toolbar. The only reason it has more press than Maxthon or Deepnet is because of its brand recognition.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:10 AM by Aidan Walsh
"People want a browser which shows their pages."

And, as has been said time and time again, "militant" webmasters want to do their page ONCE, and have it display properly on a variety of platforms, be it IE, Mozilla, mobile devices, etc, and standards are the way to allow this.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:11 AM by on
You may set read-only for:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Plugins\Extension regkey

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:19 AM by Robin
@snowkinght

Unfortunately browsing an xml file of a reasonably large size in Gecko is cripplingly slow compared to IE.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:42 AM by Dave
Anyone know why Netscape did this? It doesn't make much sense, anyone who has to uninstall Netscape 8 should give Firefox a try - it's better anyway ;)

Chloe:

Link prefetching does not violate any standards:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/netlib/Link_Prefetching_FAQ.html#Is_link_prefetching_standards_compliant

Also the W3C states http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/types.html#type-links

"Refers to the next document in a linear sequence of documents. User agents may choose to preload the "next" document, to reduce the perceived load time."

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:22 AM by John
Will IE7 have better RSS support? I suggest a setup like Safari RSS (Macintosh) to make RSS pages more useful

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:03 AM by FlorentG
> Chloe : "Firefox is bloated because it eats memory like no tomorrow, and then refuses to release it."

This issue will be corrected in next releases.

> "I really hope IE doesn't implement SVG natively"

I really hope IE7 implements SVG (like Opera 8, and future version of FF). We don't need proprietary stuff like Flash. We need standards things built with XML : XHTML, SVG, MathML... We must be able to mix different languages in one page.

And stop thinking that SVG is a bloated technology : Opera implements SVG-lite which is not bloated...

> "It's time for MS to impose their authority. "

Hey, we're in 2005 : we need open-source, cross-plateform technologies. We don't need another monopoly...

> "Realise this: no-one in the 'real world' outside militant webmasters cares about standards."

Wrong : Real web-developpers cares about standards.


Hmmm. I would like to know your job. Are you a web-developper ?

# Afinstall

Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:22 AM by Odegaard
S

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:17 AM by ant
> And Mozilla are more than happy to 'embrace and extend' - think of 'moz-' in CSS.

The same could be said for IE, except it's impossible to tell MS's proprietary extensions apart from legitimate CSS since they don't bother to put a prefix on their names, unlike Mozilla and Opera and KHTML and _every other browser using extensions to CSS_.

# re: Internet Explorer's XML Non-Rendering?

Thursday, May 26, 2005 6:49 AM by Fred Greg
I don't believe anyone has mentioned this, which strikes me as odd... but anyhow, XML was meant to be displayed with a style language, & thus should degrade to a jumble of strings, no tags displayed.

I know from experience that IE shows the XML in a tree, & so do Gecko browsers - so here's my query:

Does IE render XML properly when it /is/ given a stylesheet? Or does it still treat it like pure data, not as a /markup/ language?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:19 AM by Dave
What I'd really like to see the IE team doing would be a regular progress report like this http://www.squarefree.com/burningedge/

It lists what changes have been made to the most recent development version of Firefox (Deer Park) and what bugs and regressions are still outstanding.

It'd be interesting1 to see what progress the IE team is making.

Of course as IE is not open source we'd not expect to see links to the Microsoft bug database and would understand if they didn't want to mention any secret features but it'd be good to see the daily progress made on standards compliance, security and features you've already revealed (e.g. tabs)

# More bad news for Netscape 8

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:26 AM by SpiderBin

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:31 AM by probedb
Chloe: So nobody cares about standards except web developers? They just want something to display their web pages? How exactly would any browser do that without any standards? Every browser would use proprietary tags etc and nothing would in anything but a single browser. Standards are there for a reason, by following standards it's far easier to create an accessible website because I know what supports particular parts of the standard and what doesn't I can code appropriately to make sure code works in everything.

And for the XML bug, pfft, just another bug...it's software what else should we expect ;)

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:18 AM by Chloe
To Aidan Walsh, prodebd:

Standards are ridiculously overengineered. Who seriously believes in the semantic web?

Even widespread standards don't actually work - they always have leaks in their specs. No two implementations will be the same, and if developers are forced to run to the W3C every time they have a question no-one would get anything done.

Therefore there is no way to be sure of cross-browser compatibility without testing your pages in all browsers. The job of web developers is made harder by having to cater to multiple browsers.

To FlorentG:

This issue will be corrected in next releases?
And Longhorn will be ship on time. Where is your evidence?

Opera uses SVG-Tiny so it's not bloat?
Irrespective of the complete lack of logic you demonstrate in making your point, Opera is the most bloated browser in existence. It appeals only to the savvy and will never escape its niche on desktops. SVG tries to reinvent the wheel and should learn from the failure of VML.

As for 'open source, cross platform' - why would Microsoft do this? People here seem to be completely oblivious to the way business works! Why would MS make it easy to migrate away? From their point of view, the greater the lock-in the better! Firefox is easy to migrate to which is why they have been forced to offer IE7 for XP. Incompatibility with standards is a GOOD thing from Microsoft's point of view, however good the standards may be. They have the monopoly, so others are forced to follow, which gives them greater flexibility.

Fortunately I trust Microsoft to base their decisions firmly on economic principles rather than idealism.

Yes, I am a web developer, amongst other things.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:32 AM by John
You had better be careful because I have IE on Windows XP with SP 2 and the link http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/rss.xml works just fine for me in Avant browser or IE (which I admit to never using except for browsing the Windows update or Office update sites), Firefox 1.04, Netscape 7.2, or Netscape 8.01 using Display like Firefox or Display like Internet Explorer. You seem to have reported a problem that does not affect everyone using Netscape 8.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 10:46 AM by Robin
"Therefore there is no way to be sure of cross-browser compatibility without testing your pages in all browsers. The job of web developers is made harder by having to cater to multiple browsers."

Of course it's made harder. Most of my time goes to catering for IE - if I could only design for Gecko browsers I'd be much quicker. But that's life. So the point of a generic standard is that you can minimise the time taken to build cross browser compatible websites. The only alternative is to ubild for a single browser, which doesn't appeal to me - besides, my company wouldn't let me.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:00 AM by Todd
Seems to me reason enough to not touch ns8. <a href="http://mozilla.org">Firefox</a> is much much more friendly. Firefox is just more trust worthy then netscape and of course much much more secure then IE.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:24 AM by Pankaj
But Chloe, for once leave the economic reason aside.

As a Web developer, don't you wish that you focus solely on creating a presentable user experience, rather than worrying and adding knick-knacks for each particular browser??
It was certainly this logic that lead us to standards in first place.

Their implementation and embracement by Microsoft will go a long way in making better web-pages.

All we ask is to give us the bare minimum tools (CSS2, XHTML) applicable the same way in all the browsers. This update is necessary in IE as Web-development is also evolving with time and progress of computing.

Embracing the standards and new techonologies will give flexibility in the hands of developers and a lay home-page creator equally.

What we are really complaining about is that IE is taking awfully long to embrace the new technologies thus actually impeding the development of WWW.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:41 AM by styliztik
i am glad that this has happened to ie..i dont care if it was intentional or an accident.

"Realise this: no-one in the 'real world' outside militant webmasters cares about standards"
you do realise that these 'militant webmasters' care about standards for you all?, they care that their site works in all browsers on all platforms, they could (like some pathetic designers) just build their for internet explorer, but no. they spend about 5 hours fixing an error that should not even be an error, what browser is the error on always? internet explorer.

remember, standards are to there to give you the best internet experience possible, and that same experience to be availible on multiple browsers/platforms.

# Styled XML

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:50 AM by Kelson
Fred Greg: Yes, if an XML document is styled with CSS or XSLT, Internet Explorer will display it styled.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:08 PM by Dave Harris
Standards are a great starting point, but this war between the "new XML/XHTML standards" and the "old HTML way" is stupid. XHTML has just made webmasters learn a new set of hacks and workarounds for all of the buggy implementations of CSS/CSS2 in a dozen different browser versions. That's standards for you. So instead of focusing time and effort on creating new content and design websites for users, I have to spend twice the amount of time learning new hacks and new work-arounds since my old knowledge and experience is replaced by shiny, brand-new standards. (Remember, HTML 3.0 was a perfectly good standard for it's time and still renders beautifully in all modern browsers.)

The nice thing is that in the real world, most webmasters don't code to the current standards because they know such standards will always be a moving target. The argument that the old ways will go away in newer browsers just hasn't happened (heck, even the infamous blink tag still works in Mozilla!) and, you know what, it never will. Old standards will be supported as long as there is a significant base of "old" users (which is another good decade of MSIE 6.x).

So quit already with the standards war. Nobody is listening who cares.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:16 PM by John Davis
And in other news, Coke tells users to not drink Pepsi.

Shocking!

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:31 PM by Colin Cornaby
I came up with a way of dealing with IE not rendering pages correctly. Just ignore it and suggest Firefox to people coming to my site.

# Netscape puede &amp;amp;#171;romper&amp;amp;#187; IExplorer

Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:33 PM by Microsiervos
Al instalar el nuevo Netscape 8 puede suceder (como ha sido mi caso con un Windows XP) que Internet Explorer deje de visualizar documentos XML &amp;#8212;como los feeds RSS. En IEBlog cuentan la soluci&amp;#243;n en dos pasos y el primero...

# if (Netscape 8 == IE 6 - MSXML3)

Thursday, May 26, 2005 12:40 PM by Sean Gephardt's MSDN Blog on the Microsoft Developer Network
Appearently, there has come to light a small issue with Netscape 8 and the fact that is installs a wrapper...

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 1:00 PM by David Fenton
Chloe wrote:
> As for 'open source, cross platform' - why
> would Microsoft do this? People here seem to
> be completely oblivious to the way business
> works! Why would MS make it easy to migrate
> away? From their point of view, the greater
> the lock-in the better! Firefox is easy to
> migrate to which is why they have been forced
> to offer IE7 for XP. Incompatibility with
> standards is a GOOD thing from Microsoft's
> point of view, however good the standards may
> be. They have the monopoly, so others are
> forced to follow, which gives them greater
> flexibility.

See:
http://joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000052.html

Quotation from that article, which discusses how Excel overcame Lotus 123's huge advantage in installed base and network effects that came from that:

> The best way to eliminate people's
> objections to switching to your product is
> to make it easy to switch back. Nobody
> wants to switch to a product that is going
> to eliminate their freedom in the future.

--
David W. Fenton
David Fenton Associates
http://www.bway.net/~dfassoc/

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 1:19 PM by David
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Plugins branch within the registry the CORRECT place for applications to extend IE's functionality? If I have an application that handles a particular document type, and I want to expose my new features through IE, wouldn't I HAVE to specify that in the registry in this location?

Is it possible that Netscape decided that their browser had XML support that users might want to take advantage of, and (with or without the user's consent), registered that capability with IE using its standard plugin/extension mechanism?

Now, I'm perfectly willing to go along with the suggestion that a Netscape bug caused IE to misbehave here, but it's a whopper of an assumption to suggest that Netscape had no business doing this to begin with, or that it was remotely a malicious thing. It seems to me that Netscape was simply trying to register itself as an XML-handling application for IE, but it was buggy, so it failed to render anything.

Is there something else here that suggests Netscape was actually in the wrong here? I realize there are lots of "Microsoft is good, Netscape is bad" folks reading MSDN blogs, but let's base our snide remarks on actual facts, yah?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 1:26 PM by meow
"If you wanted to "secure" the registry to prevent Netscape from writing to the IE portion, you'd have to run IE from a different account (different "token") than Netscape -- that way IE could access its portion and Netscape could access its portion."

Since the the key in question here is in the HKLM branch, that won't make any difference. And it indeed raises the question why the key is in the HKLM branch, and why it is apparently writable for ordinary user accounts. And if you can put ACLs on registry keys, why does nobody, not even Microsoft, do that?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 1:27 PM by narcc
Some black eyes on MS part...relating to Netscape

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-820227.html

http://www.computerworld.com/news/2000/story/0,11280,43878,00.html

http://www.computeruser.com/news/02/01/08/news8.html

Oh, and that security hole in netscape? A fix was released within a day. Not that it matters -- Who would bother with netscape when firefox is avaliable? Hey Microsoft uses it:

http://www.nrg.co.il/online/10/ART/825/507.html

...but refuses to admit that even though it's obviously true.

Microsoft also recommend using firefox instead of IE!

http://www.wi-fitechnology.com/displayarticle1294.html

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 2:29 PM by ant
> Opera is the most bloated browser in existence. It appeals only to the savvy and will never escape its niche on desktops.

Opera's main market is mobile phones and handhelds, and the reality is it does quite well in that market.
Also, if Opera is the most bloated browser in existence as you seem to think it is, how do you explain the IE6 installation download (or its SP1 for that matter) being 9-73MB bigger? Yes that's right, IE6 SP1 is 11MB at a bare minimum according to MS's own information.
I'm no Opera fan myself, but maybe you should "Get the Facts" before making wild accusations.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 3:43 PM by Bill
David,
When you install an alternate browser, you don't expect the "all your browser are belong to us" treatment. If I install NS8 alongside IE6, it's because I want to test in both. It does me no good if NS8 sticks its fingers in IE6 and makes its rendering the rendering for both.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:32 PM by cafeRg
isnt the bottom line here, shouldnt have netscape made sure their browser worked in IE, afterall they using the core engine for rendering..

but the bugs dont stop there... after about 10 tabs ..new tabs start to become invisible ..i think netscape pushed it out the door and need to come up with a fix.. i have noticed a couple other bugs also..

and at first i was enjoying netscape after years of not using them ..because of its limitations

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:52 PM by Lopi
Regarding all the Friefox bashing:
Fine, there's a memeory hole. So there's stuff that needs to be worked out. But IE is at version 6.whatever; Firefox is at 1.0.4. Give it time. MS has been at it for like 10 years and they still can't get a decent browser out to the world. Obviously IE7 will be better than 6, but I'm confident Firefox 2 will be better and less buggy than 1.0.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 4:52 PM by cafeRg
ok so i went over to netscape to see what they had to say and after a small debate, netscape admits its their fault and the bug exist..

"We apologize for the inconvenience that this bug has caused you. This certainly isn't desired behavior and we didn't even intentionally change that registry key. The development team is hard at work on a patch.

Thanks,
Netscape Product"

source: http://community.netscape.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=7&tid=1878&webtag=ws-nscpbrowser

# Why didn't I just listen to Elliotte in the first place?

Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:00 PM by <XSLT:Blog />
Have you ever had one of those &quot;moments&quot; when you have literally dug so deep down into your mind to try and solve a problem that you literally have reached the point where there is simply nothing left to search...

# Why didn't I just listen to Elliotte in the first place?

Thursday, May 26, 2005 5:56 PM by <XSLT:Blog />
Have you ever had one of those &quot;moments&quot; when you have literally dug so deep down into your mind to try and solve a problem that you literally have reached the point where there is simply nothing left to search...

# ブラウザ戦争勃発か!?

Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:37 PM by らくがき
Netscape 8の導入でIEに不具合 Netscapeの最新版をインストール...

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:10 PM by Bob
I have been having so much trouble with IE lately. Pages load so slowly that they often time out and I have to refresh repeatedly to get them. At one point IE would not even access the net, although e-mail and program updates that didn't use IE worked fine. I had to install Netscape to get internet access. (I had an old install package in my download directory.) I haven't yet noticed blank pages in IE (which I am using at this moment) since installing Netscape, but if I do, I guess it will be IE that I remove.

I have lots of mal-ware programs installed and running (see my blog at http://techrepublic.com.com/5254-6257-0.html?forumID=99&threadID=174658&messageID=1776612&id=3467541 ). I recently re-installed XP and SP 2, and everything is updated to the hilt, including IE.

# Ehh Netscape broke mah IE...

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:20 PM by Thushan Fernando
Well after a Netscape finally released their v8.0 browser, they released an update to fix a security...

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:30 PM by Morac
Well apparently Netscape makes some other modifications because I removed the registry entries noted above and locked their permissions so they wouldn't be recreated. I then tried the page in Internet Explorer and it would not work. It only started working after I uninstalled Netscape 8.0.1 so there must be more to it then the registry entries listed above.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 8:53 PM by Joe Kaiser
Notice it doesnt effect Firefox? Make the switch today. http://www.mozilla.org

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:07 PM by Chris Beach
Chloe - I wholeheartedly agree with you. I've been writing about the issues raised by militant web standards evangelism since last year:

"W3C uses CSS3 to bash IE":
http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=5089

"The tyranny of standards":
http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=4886

"hypocricy laid bare - the proprietary document object model":
http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=4753

"W3C is dead":
http://www.chrisbeach.co.uk/core/scripts/entryViewer.php?ID=4697

Note that I wrote these almost a year ago when Firefox was just kicking off, so they may seem a little out-of-date. I think the points are still valid

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:21 PM by Nicko
I note a few comments from Pro MS supporter about maintaining standards and I am aware that MS try to enforce their products with none standard functions as a standard (frontpage). It also reminds me of how MS said IE could not be seperated from windows and yet it was proved wrong. I don't use Netscape and don't have any intention to because I am use to using the benefits that firefox and mozilla provide. Complain as you will about these other browsers but the less we are dependant on one vendor the less likley we will have to pay for a new GUI and a few extra tidbits to show they did something for 12 months and in doing so make us pay a hefty price for an update that 99% of users will never use.

If you say well don't upgrade if you don't need it, is rediculous and narrow minded for when I need to access someone elses file that uses the newer version.

I wouldn't care if IE made me a cup of coffee or answered my phone, the alternative is the preferred option. When the opportunity to play with Linux comes I will move as far as possible away from Microsoft as I can.

I am glad I am one of many who has the intention of making MS work for it's money. Have you ever tried to close IE when MSN is open? It won't let me. Why? Because it states an application that uses it is still open. Not only that but I don't use IE and yet my startup list often shows I have done so and on several occassions. The more you support MS and its devious methods of snaring you the more insane it will get.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:24 PM by Beltira
Q: How many programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. Its a hardware problem.

Q: How many MS programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

A: None. They change the 'standard' to darkness.

MS is in business to make money. Period. That is what a business is in business to do.

MS just happens to worked hard and long to place itself into the position of forcing everyone else to play catch up in a rigged game.


Could MS do better? Sure. They won't untill there is a financial reason for them to do so.

Security, they just don't get it. I should be able to control what processes access what resources. An app should be able to 'own' its own sub branch in the registry.

I won't even start on the whole ActiveX issue, or overly powerfull scripting languages like VBA that support scripts embeded within documents.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 9:31 PM by shantanu
I checked on my machine -- Windows XP home edition;Service pack 2, Internet explorer 6.0.2900, Netscape Navigator Version 8; 0.9.6, FireFox Version 1.0.3.

I do not seem to have the problem listed here.
Dave can you kindly specify the configuration that is effected by this netscape issue.

regards
shantanu@myworld-myrules.com

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:35 PM by snowknight
@robin
That still doesn't explain why Netscape would need to set one of its dlls as a plugin for IE.

@Everyone who says SVG isn't bloated
If SVG 1.2 isn't bloated, then why does it contain a "File Upload" section and a "Persistent Client-side Data storage" section? Does Scalable Vector Graphics really need them to be a proper *graphics* standard? It reminds me of the old Netscape/Mozilla mindset before Firefox got started.

http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/api.html#fileupload
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-SVG12-20041027/api.html#persistent-client-data

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Thursday, May 26, 2005 11:42 PM by N.N. Thayer
Chris Beach and Chloe, you have my full agreement. It's nice to see others out there that recognize Netscape for what it is - a sad, horribly mutated, utterly irrelevant product of uncoordinated development and misguided convictions - and that recognize Internet Explorer for what *it* is - a remarkable piece of software that sets advanced browsing standards for an entire world, continues to further open up a global network to the public, and is the clear leader in innovations that really matter.

Chris, your articles on the truth about web standards, and the misinformation and misperceptions regarding Microsoft and IE that are bandied about so frequently, are a breath of fresh air.

# Netscape breaks IE's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:29 AM by Pritam Pal
Netscape breaks IE's XML Rendering

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:52 AM by Bob
re my comment above:

It turns out I am using Netscape 6. I guess some of my download files are a bit out of date. But maybe that's a good thing. At least I had something available that worked when I needed it. In any case I followed the links to Mozilla and downloaded the packages for Mozilla, Firefox, and Thunderbird for both Windows and Linux. They are not installed yet, but are available in case of trouble.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 2:13 AM by barriegreen@msn.com
I have the problem of a blank ie when viewing xml
but i have nothing under the extension key is the xml sub key any where else?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 2:45 AM by Albert
Hey guys one of my pc at home has this similar problem of having a blank page when accessing some site particularly hotmail, yahoo mail, some microsoft page and windows update and some forum sites. but other secure site like banking w/c uses Java dont seem to have a problem... And here's the catch! there are no other browser installed on that machine just plain old IE and the machine OS is WIN XP with SP 2 with all the latest hotfix! Any idea guys? I heard from others they have the same issue also! pls do email me at albert_ri@yahoo.com if you have some solutions cheers!

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:40 AM by FlorentG
snowknight wrote :
"If SVG 1.2 isn't bloated, then why does it contain a "File Upload" section and a "Persistent Client-side Data storage" section?"

This is because SVG is not only a graphic-description language, it defines also a complete set of API to create graphics-based Application.

Moreover, SVG 1.2 adds stuff that was requested by the community. So some people may have asked a file upload API...

And remember that it is just a Working Draft... So it may disappear in when it will be released as a recommandation.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:40 AM by Tom
Quote: and that recognize Internet Explorer for what *it* is - a remarkable piece of software that sets advanced browsing standards for an entire world, continues to further open up a global network to the public, and is the clear leader in innovations that really matter.

Sorry, could you explain to me what "innovations" IE had the last years and since when does Microsoft "set advanced browsing standards"?

Surely you must be kidding when you say "is the clear leader in innovations that really matter". Sorry, but IE6 hasn't had ANY innovations in years. Just now, when other browser (who do have innovations) are becoming more popular, they start working on IE again (after years of doing nothing).

Sorry, I'm not a real anti-IE person, but these comments just are wrong.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:47 AM by edgar
And this is the reason why I use Fedora Core 3 or MacOS Tiger...

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:54 AM by Martin
Where in the original post on this subject does it state that the registry key is rewritten /by Netscape/?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:59 AM by Nick
Avoiding the (needless) personal insults that are already being thrown around here, here's my take on the matter:

Without standards, and a *good* base of standards at that, the WWW would not exist at all. Neither the original Netscape, or IE can claim to have done *anyone* any favours by implementing proprietry extensions and forcing their use, however it is the case that the standards procedure is slow, lethargic and prone to a "committee" attitude. We wouldn't be where we are now without the original Netscape and the other early browsers adding extra functionality to the existing standards. It's just a shame about the awful way most of these extenstions were implemented.

As for developing for IE, Netscape, Opera, etc. I can safely say that the single most frustrating point in web development is the hopelessly buggy layout (CSS) support in IE. I'm not saying that Mozilla, Firefox, etc also don't have their CSS bugs, it's just that IEs are many more and worse. I'm not even going to start on MS's implementation of JavaScript, which is "interesting" to say least, except that it's not the only implementation with "interesting" features, it's just that some of it's slackness critically effects lots of code (interchangeable bracket types, for instance).

The end result, is that we *MUST* have multiple browsers for the market to not remain stagnant, bloated and unstable / vulnerable. If there weren't (finally) some decent competitiors to IE, you can bet that MS would not have decided to retro-fit IE7 into XP.

Oh, and onto the brief subject of NS8's interface - I've hated it and always have (this includes all of the previous versions of Netscape too). Mozilla is a much better browser but I still hate where it's taken the interface elements from Netscape.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 5:12 AM by Z
Interesting bug, but well, after IE releases breaking applications, some applications were bound to break IE ^_^

# MS want to kill Netscape...

Friday, May 27, 2005 5:18 AM by doa
1. Start/run/regedit
2. Move following key.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Plugins\Extension
3. delete sub key, .xml
4. Move following key.
HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\App Paths
5. delete sub key, Netscape.exe

Both Netscape and MSIE operates well.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 6:36 AM by Robert
I found another workaround that allows you to keep using Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer with full XML/XSLT rendering.

1. Close all instances of Internet Explorer and NS8.

2. Goto C:\Program Files\Netscape\Netscape Browser\plugins (or to whatever directory that you've installed NS8 to) and rename the npTrident.dll file to npTrident.dll.bku.

3. Remove the .xml node from the Registry as specified at the top of this thread.

4. NS8 can still be used and IE will now render XML/XSLT properly. However, all functions provided by the Trident plugin will no longer work. This breaks NS8's own XML/XSLT rendering, among other things, but this can be overriden by using the Firefox engine in NS8 to render it instead.

It is working for me, and so far has broken nothing else that I use apart from XML (which is fixable as stated by using Firefox).

Hope that this helps. ^)^

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 7:25 AM by Rob Church
Well this takes the biscuit, doesn't it? I mean, let's face it - Microsoft are constantly being accused of dirty tactics and all that kind of nonsense. Here's a clear case of an application invading another's turf. I say Microsoft should cull them!

(OK, not that extreme, but something must be done. Keep up the good work MS.)

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 8:33 AM by a nonny mouse
Chloe: "Firefox is bloated because it eats memory like no tomorrow, and then refuses to release it."

What, unlike Internet Explorer???!?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 8:39 AM by The Dude Who Walks
Phil asked, "How do I unstall IE? and windoze? And use linux as my main os with firefox and openoffice?"

Simply download the Fedora Core 4 DVD image, burn to a DVD, insert into your DVD drive and reboot and follow the very simple on-screen instructions. That is all.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 9:41 AM by Joe Black
Hey I have a similar problem:
I Installed Netscape8, had problems and then unistall it
Later I reinstall SP1 for IE6 and MSXML4
Now I can't see XML files without this heading
<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
At least adding this line I can see the file...
Yours
Joe

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 10:56 AM by Anon
I hope all you "standards" supporters reliaze that most of your precious web standards were adopted from already long existing features in IE and the former Netscape and then renamed and fudged by the W3C usually breaking something in the process. In other words, your precious "standards" are non-standard; the standard was chosen long ago by the comsumers.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:15 AM by John Sanford
FlorentG Said:"Real web-developpers cares about standards."

It would be nice if IE, NS, Opera, FF, etc., would ALL meet the _basic_ W3 standards.

I have yet to find any web site that is enhanced using Flash (all Macromedia), JAVA, or anyother "add-ons."

Developers need to remember that not ALL visitors to their web site have high-speed connections. In fact, most don't.

HTML is for basic communications and display, all the other is superfluous. KISS!

The web is so bloated with _junk_, it's lost its usefulness.

# Microsoft Claims Netscape Browser Harms Internet Explorer

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:19 AM by Scribe
Microsoft's Dave Massy, the senior program manager for IE, has warned&amp;nbsp;Internet Explorer&amp;nbsp;users that Netscape's 8.0 browser can cause a conflict with Microsoft's browser Internet Explorer.&amp;nbsp; This may be another setback for the new &quot;security&quot; Netscape 8.0.&amp;nbsp; The browser had immediate...

# A sure sign that Netscape is dying

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:43 AM by The Cerebral Kitchen

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 11:48 AM by Dave
Definitely some strong opinions here. Of course, this is why we have five major browsers available!
For what it's worth, the advantage of any version of Netscape over an installation of IE is the reversablility. Not only can I run multiple versions of Netscape on the same system, I can uninstall any of them. Registry cleanup obviously needs some work here, but it appears that not everyone is affected anyway. Microsoft seems incapable or unwilling to allow a return path from browser upgrades. It makes no sense to force users to reformat a hard drive just to get back to the previous state.
Both Netscape and IE have some useful features unavailable in the other offering. If I could get IE to render pages as fast as Netscape, perhaps I would have switched by now. I have tried every new version of IE when it came out and have always returned to Netscape. I can't use tabs or get a page to stop loading in IE. I can't get real JAVA (that means multi platform) to work. Settings are buried so deep and some aren't available at all, or are undocumented. The PDF plug in rarely works as well as the one in Netscape (should I blame Adobe?) The Outlook/Exchange remote interface actually works better in Netscape! I am glad to see that some folks are able to use IE for something useful.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:07 PM by a booer
Maybe it will be the easiest way,
but is it really necessary to uninstall Netscape8 ?

I think there is another way...
Open your regedt32.exe,
And modify security settings to protect from rewriting the registry key.

...For one thing, HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE is not be able to rewrite on "Users" group.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:22 PM by sergio
Isn't it easier to forget about IE instead of:

1 - uninstalling netscape.
2 - waiting for the updated version
3 - reinstalling netscape

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:39 PM by LDMartin1959
Hmmmm. Seems to me that this sound vaguely familiar, only with MS apps were breaking software from other vendors (and Microsoft turning a deaf ear). Does anyone recall the chant, "DOS isn't done, 'till Lotus wont run."?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:44 PM by Jason N. Gaylord
Thanks for the update. I've had a few people complain already. I'm glad theirs a solution.

# Re: Firefox and memory hogging

Friday, May 27, 2005 12:56 PM by zero2dash
> Chloe : "Firefox is bloated because it eats memory like no tomorrow, and then refuses to release it."

I'd suggest fixing your computer or upgrading it, because if Firefox eats more RAM on your computer than IE6, your computer is f$%*ed up. Period.

IE eats at least double the resources that Firefox does.

(HTP4 3.0, 1gig PC3200 RAM, XP Pro SP2 slipstream install, Firefox 1.4)

Hell even when Firefox was a .7 BETA it still ate less resources than IE6.

Fix your computer.

# Netscape 8 breaks IE

Friday, May 27, 2005 1:17 PM by Mike's Virtual Hole

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 1:30 PM by Jason
" Does anyone recall the chant, "DOS isn't done, 'till Lotus wont run."? "

LOL, yep! :)

All the bickering about standards and such is ridiculous. I've been a web developer for going on 12 years now and frankly I wish for one thing only.

A Winner. True standards compliance will only come when people accept the fact that the largest market share *must* be the standard. Why? Because it's ridiculous to design for 2% of the browsers, or 5% or whatever. Working between MSIE and Firefox reminds me of the days when it was working withing the AOL framework as well as normal IE and netscape. 0 compliance and absolutely no consideration that one of them had 90% of the market share.

Don't get me wrong, I like the technological advances that have come out of the W3C as well as emerging advances with SVG and Ajax. But frankly the *frequent* XHTML specification changes and other spec changes seems a lot like a bunch of people with no commercial interest "pie in the sky"ing things.

Just my 2 cents

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 2:38 PM by Anon
It's not a bug, it's a feature! ;)

Seriously, a third party app not working with Windows. I'm shocked. SHOCKED I say.

I guess I'll just keep using linux for a few more years.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 2:57 PM by Aaron
Can anyone verify that it is a plain jane default build of Netscape 8 breaking IE and not a plugin of Netscape?

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:15 PM by David
[Sarcastic] The next thing Microsoft will be doing is asking people to uninstall Firefox since it is posing a considerable amount of problems to I.E.'s diminishing market share. [/Sarcastic]

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:15 PM by David
[Sarcastic] The next thing Microsoft will be doing is asking people to uninstall Firefox since it is posing a considerable amount of problems to I.E.'s diminishing market share. [/Sarcastic]

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 3:18 PM by Rob
Quote from Chloe:
"Yes, it uses Trident underneath, but it's a fully fledged app, not a plugin."

All I have to say is check the registry at the location this article describes.. you will find:

"C:\Program Files\Netscape\Netscape Browser\PLUGINS\npTrident.dll"

Not a plugin? uh-huh.

Long Live IE, Death to Netscape/Mozilla

-Rob

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 4:57 PM by Myron
Or just set the permission of `HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Plugins\Extension` to read-only so when NetScape tries to rw-write the registry entries, the operationg system will not allow that to happen.

Netscape should not constantly re-write and `grab` control of something. Same goes with IE and any other program. What's happened here is a sign of bas coding and no consideration for the user's wishes.

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 5:21 PM by Me
Hahaha. SO I install Netscape. Then IE doesn't work properly? SO WHAT!!! THats why I install Netscape, so I don't have to use your rubbish browser. Even better - UNINSTALL IE. And you can!!!

# re: Netscape 8 and Internet Explorer's XML Rendering

Friday, May 27, 2005 6:05 PM by lifeunlived
Wow, its amazing how to fix a problem Microsoft tells you to uninstall Netscape. That's like like getting a new DVD player for your tv, and then one button on the remote control for the TV isn't working, and the TV manufacturer calls for you to return your DVD player and use their model.

That's one good marketing strategy, but of course microsoft is known for these. It's amazing that Microsoft beats the competition, NOT by having the best technology, but simply by advertising and domination of the market.

But, I think that's all going to change soon. More and more people will be using linux (if you want to switch download a FREE linux, I suggest mandrake, from http://distrowatch.com/). IN LINUX, YOU CANNOT GET VIRUSES OR SPYWARE! All the programs for Linux are free!

To inst