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Details on our CSS changes for IE7

We are currently locking down IE7 for shipping and I wanted to give an update on the CSS work that went into IE7. Chris originally outlined our plans for IE7, and we listened to a lot of feedback (blog, connect database, conferences, our WASP partnership etc.)  to help us address the most grievous bugs and prioritize which features to put in for IE7. I like to thank especially the contributors on this blog for their participation. Your feedback made a difference in deciding what issues to address.

We understand that we are far from being done and we know we have still a lot of work ahead of us.  IE 7 is a stepping stone in our effort to improve our standards compliance (especially around CSS). As an example, in the platform we did not focus on any proprietary properties – though we may try out new features in the future using the official –ms- prefix, following the CSS extension mechanism. We also work very closely with the W3C CSS working group (which I am a member of) to help clarify assumptions in our implementation and drive clarifications into the spec. I really like to thank everyone who helped us here.

In all, we made over 200 behavior changes (bug fixes or new features) under strict mode to improve CSS2.1 compliance.  All this work (with the exception of transparent PNGs) has been done under the <!DOCTYPE> switch only, since all changes required behavioral updates to be more in line what the CSS spec specifies. To preserve application compatibility we will not make any behavioral changes to “quirks mode” as it has been established since IE6.  

Here is the list of CSS features and changes for IE7:

Bugs we fixed

Details on some of the other bugs (from sources other than the positioniseverything.net list) that we fixed:

  • Overflow now works correctly! (That means boxes do not automatically grow any more.)
  • Parser bugs: * html, _property and /**/ comment bug 
  • Select control: CSS style-able and not always on top
  • Auto-sizing of absolute positioned element with width:auto and right & left (great for 3 column layouts)
  • Addressed many relative positioning issues
  • Addressed many absolute positioned issues
  • % calculations for height/width for abs positioned elements http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=191182
  • <?xml> prolog no longer causes quirks mode
  • HTML element truly independent of the Body (now gets its own width, height etc.)
  • 1 px dotted borders no longer render as dashed
  • Bottom margin bug on hover does not collapse margins
  • Several negative margin issues fixed
  • Recalc issues including relative positioning and/or negative margins are fixed now
  • CLSID attribute of <object> tag no longer limited to 128 characters
  • :first-letter whitespace bug described in http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/09/02/460115.aspx fixed
  • Descendant selector now works properly for grand children when combined with other selectors
  • First-line and first-letter now applies when there is no space between word :first-line and opening brace {
  • Pseudo-classes now are working as expected if selector is excluded
  • The :link selector works now for anchor tag with href set to bookmark
  • Addressed !important issues
  • PositionIsEverything piefecta-rigid.htm now works
  • List-item whitespace bug fixed
  • Fixed Absolutely Buggy II
  • Absolute positioned elements now use always correct containing block for positioning and size information
  • Nested block elements now respect all overflow declarations (hidden, scroll, etc)
  • Fixed the opposing offset problem (absolute positioned element whit all four top, bottom left and right are present)
  • <a> tags nested within LI elements will no longer add extra bottom margin when hover occurs
  • We no longer lose the image aspect ratio on refresh
  • Cleaned up our ident parsing according to CSS2.1 rules
  • Fixed parsing bugs for multi- class selectors and class selectors that are combined with id selectors
  • And many more

We also extended our existing implementations to comply with W3C specifications:

  • Enable :hover on all elements not just on <a>
  • Background-attachment: fixed works on all elements – so Eric Meyer’s complexspiral demo works
  • Improved <object> fallback

Finally, we added new features from CSS2.1:

  • Min/max width/height support (also for images, which did not work in IE7b2)
  • Transparent borders
  • Fixed positioning support
  • Selectors: first-child, adjacent, attribute, child
    • A couple of CSS 3 attribute selectors: prefix, suffix and substring since we were working already in the code base (also the general sibling selector)
  • Alpha channel PNG support (Not a CSS feature but too important for designers to not call it out J)

Better Standards Support…
But as we’ve been continually reminded, better standards support in IE also means some pages break.  As we struggle to balance the needs of our user customers with the desires of web developers, we need your help.  The only way for us to continue to improve our standards support is to get your help in changing your sites for IE7. We have provided a set of documentation and tools to help you transition your pages to IE7:

Finally, as we’ve talked about before, we have a Web Developer Toolbar, which is a great aid during the development and debugging of a website.

We are already planning for the next IE release and will continue down the road of improving our CSS support.

Markus Mielke
Program Manager

Published Tuesday, August 22, 2006 12:03 PM by ieblog

Comments

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:27 PM by William J Edney
Markus -

Thanks for the update!! This is the kind of information that we need as we try to update our products and sites for IE7.

As I mentioned in another post yesterday, could you all make a list of the stuff in the CSS 2.1 spec (or well known bugs) that does *not* work, but that you know about and have scheduled for a future release?

This would be very helpful to those of us who need to know where *not* to spend time trying something that still won't work for IE7. For instance, my list currently consists of:

- No :focus support
- Need :active support on all elements that can be activated.
- No support for display: table* values
- No support for 'box-sizing' to allow border-box sizing when in strict mode.

I'm sure other folks have other lists, but having someone at Microsoft keep a complete list would be a *huge huge* help!

Thanks for all of you and your team's hard work on making all of this happen!

Cheers,

- Bill

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:43 PM by Dean Edwards
That's a fantastic list. Well done.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 3:58 PM by Tino Zijdel
Beside a list of things that are not supported a list of things that are technically supported but incorrectely implemented and thus showing erratical behavior (aka 'broken') would be nice too, although I'm afraid such a list would be way longer than the number of items listed here as 'fixed' ('worked around' or 'hacked' would probably be more accurate).

On the top of such list I expect to see items such as:
- Float model is still incorrect in many cases
- Basic CSS positioning is still incorrect in many cases
- z-index is still incorrect
- inheritance is still broken in almost all cases
- margin-collapsing is still incorrect

The bugs mentioned on PIE are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to CSS-bugs in IE6 and you should be aware of that. It should also have made you realize that the actual problem must be far more fundamental, as fundamental as the basic visual formatting model implemented in Trident that is probably still based on CSS level 1 and cannot really handle the added complexity of CCS level 2.

From this blog-post it looks to me like Trident has only be patched up to work around certain common problems (sure, it makes you look good), but in essence IE7 will still have a very broken CSS-implementation and that makes you look really really bad because it is the last thing developers want.
Please don't ship a browser that is vastly different from the previous version, but still as fundamentally broken.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:04 PM by Jeff Parker
While all the improvements above are great, and sounds like everything is going along good I can't wait for this to come out to the whole world.

Out of curiosity, there has been no real mention of some of the other things that IE had in it as well. Will they still be in there has support for them improved, planned to be improved? For example SMILE for the longest time IE was the only browser that even supported SMILE I am honestly not sure of any other browsers that do. It would not suprise me if some have evolved to handle it but it has always remained low off the radar. Just curious. However I will be grad to have all the CSS bugs fixed.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:26 PM by Brian Sexton
It is reassuring that you have both worked to improve standards support and recognized that there is still much standards-support work to be done.

> But as we’ve been continually reminded,
> better standards support in IE also means
> some pages break.

Specifically, pages that were not crafted with those standards in mind or which use browser-specific hacks to make up for the poor standards support in Internet Explorer versions before 7.  If breaking those pages gets standards-ignoring Web developers and publishers to replace their IE-centric HTML/XHTML and CSS with standard HTML/XHTML and CSS, then I say break away and let developers and publishers start cleaning up their messes.

I may have a little bit of updating to do myself since I have sparingly used conditional comments to hide IE-specific code that may or may not need to be hidden from IE 7, so I may be able to scale back the scope of some conditional comments or remove them entirely or I may need to extend the scope of some conditional comments to include IE 7.  I am leaning toward simply removing them wherever they are no longer needed for IE 7 as I am no more inclined to keep supporting IE 6 now that it is being upgraded than I have been with it languishing for years.

The one concession I will likely make for Internet Explorer 7 is that I will likely use floats for page layouts rather than the CSS "display" property's "table" and related values (http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/tables.html), which are considerably easier to use, but which Internet Explorer 7 still seems to not support.  Aside from that, I am inclined to code for the standards and let whatever browser misbehave as it will.  I am tired of using and seeing browser-specific code for what are supposedly standards-using pages; if the IE team can keep up its momentum, perhaps we won't be needing it much anymore.  Good luck to all of us! :)

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:27 PM by Nai Isrerred
Digg pages still do not render correctly.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:28 PM by Nai Isrerred
Digg pages still do not render correctly.

# My thoughts &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; css-support

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:31 PM by My thoughts » Blog Archive » css-support

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:32 PM by jace
Can you help us pin down the RC1 release date any closer yet?

Thanks for the hard work!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:40 PM by Ethan
I think RC1 will be released tomorrow, correct?

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:50 PM by The View Master

Digg: http://www.digg.com/

...STILL Does Not Render Properly, ..."Signed In"!

:-(

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:56 PM by Archeious
I guess I haven't been visiting Digg everyday.  Because the site I go to http://www.digg.com renders fine in IE7 beta 3.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:56 PM by pauldwaite
You guys rock. Thanks for making IE 7 better than I would have dared speculate a year ago.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:04 PM by Tom
Fix the Favicons, PLEASE  !!!!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:13 PM by cooperpx
Right on. Good Post.

[ Shameless linking of a bug + testcase awaiting acknowledgement ]

Marus, the following isn't always true: "1 px dotted borders no longer render as dashed"

https://connect.microsoft.com/IE/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=177532

It shows something weird under the covers having to do with mixed units. Care to fire a quick comment about its etymology? [ curious ]

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:46 PM by Jason McIntosh
How about support the header scrolling stuff for tables?  Specifically, tbody.  You can read some of the issues discussed here on how IE is MUCH more difficult to get some things working when compared to FireFox:
http://forum.nextapp.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2309&hl=

This is something I've had to fight myself.  If you really want to test IE, see how bad it is on some things, look at the javascript hacks to get it working with some CSS code that that library uses.  

I do know this - that simple fix would make my life a LOT easier when it comes to web applications.
Thanks,
Jason

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:50 PM by Steve


So, PNG Alpha is supported... how about the colors?

As has been mentioned many times, the colors now display too dark. will this be fixed by IE7 release?

# Techs Message &raquo; Details on CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 5:58 PM by Techs Message » Details on CSS changes for IE7

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:08 PM by Adam
Well done IE Team!!

Thanks for listening, and thank you for your hard work.

I can't wait until I have to drop support for IE6!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:16 PM by The View Master

Aloha! Archeious!  ;-)

Post a "Screen Shot"!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:31 PM by Pia Holm
That's nice. Now restore customizability to the UI. It's clunky, counterintuitive, and just plain ugly.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:45 PM by Alex
Is alpha channel png supported in quirks mode as well?

Are there any js bug fixes or just css?

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:56 PM by Tino Zijdel
Alex: I believe they used some COM-wrapper around the ActiveX Alpha filter for png-transparency (same thing they did for XMLHttpRequest - so much for 'native' support)

And no, IE7 will still not be compliant with ECMA-262 level 3 (let alone javascript 1.5 or higher) and it's CSS-support is still buggy.

Happy browsing!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:57 PM by Dave Massy [MSFT]
Alex,
Alpha channel for PNG works in both quirks and strict mode.
As far as JavaScript and DOM work goes there is the native XMLHttpRequest object http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/01/23/516393.aspx , some garbage collection improvements to reduce the issuse with closures and some performance work that you should see soon.
Another thing wortt mentioning is the new select element implementation see http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2006/01/17/514076.aspx

Thanks
-Dave

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:59 PM by Dave Massy [MSFT]
Tino,
See the post at http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2005/04/26/412263.aspx that explains the PNG alpha channel implementation that explains it quite well.
Thanks
-Dave

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:23 PM by zcorpan
Steve said:
>So, PNG Alpha is supported... how about the colors?

The colors are only incorrect for labeled PNGs. If you run your images though PNGOUT, which outputs unlabeled PNGs, they are rendered correctly in IE.

# Master List of IE 7 CSS Compatibility Improvements

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:25 PM by Aaron's UI Design Blog
Markus Mielke, a Program Manager on the Internet Explorer team, has published an exhaustively thorough list of changes to IE 7's CSS support on the IE Team blog on MSDN. Markus also makes mention of the IE 7 Readiness Toolkit,...

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:42 PM by cooperpx
@ Markus : sorry, typo monster got me
@ Dave M : "... garbage collection improvements ..."

Ah, when you decide to talk about the new gc improvements... would you go into some detail?

I'm curious if you guys are going to implement (natively) the teardown js I'm starting to see attached to onunload... or have you guys figured out a way to do weak references with COM... or what? inquiring minds want to know!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 8:48 PM by Eduardo Valencia
I hope it does render correctly all changes and bug fixes

anyways good work,have you optimized the RC1 build for better performance for slow pc's?

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 9:10 PM by William J Edney
Dave -

I'm also very interested in hearing details on any improvements that you all might have made in the JS garbage collector (beyond the standard 'DOM object' in a closure thing). Are there performance improvements in particular to managing 'large working sets of objects'?? (i.e. 20K, 30K, 50K, 100K objects present in the system). If you guys fixed this, you've not only made my day, you've made my whole year! I'll send whoever did this work a free case of beer (I've done this for the Mozilla crew for fixing bugs in Mozilla and its been quite effective :-))

Cheers,

- Bill

# Ecsyle.com - podcasting the trackback in the web2.55 beta blogosphere &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; IE7 Update. Things are looking good

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 9:24 PM by Hopen
When the CSS "page-break-inside" could correctly work ?

# fireyy blog &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; Internet Explorer 7 ????????????

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:34 PM by Arrix
Thanks for your hard work! IE7 will definitely make our life easier. However, I'm a bit disspointed to have heard that you fix specific bugs instead of implementing correct support for CSS2. Thanks anyway!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 10:52 PM by Jason Goh
Please test with this : then u know the the browser is good support for the "simple" CSS or not: http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html#top

In the moment, only Opera have the 100% support.

# IE7: The List is In - The Web Standards Project

Tuesday, August 22, 2006 11:28 PM by IE7: The List is In - The Web Standards Project

# ?????????IE????????????CSS?????????????????? - Mozine Communal Network

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:40 AM by Erik
The Acid 2 test is a bunch of crap. Why on earth we should worry about handling incorrect code is beyond me. You don't get that kind of coddling in most any other language. Build a complex CSS test using only VALID code, then see who passes.

As to the IE CSS fixes, good work. Though my grudge against IE is intensely psychological at this point, improvements like these do much to erase that.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:07 AM by vikram
Thanks. this blog would be great help in development.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 2:26 AM by Ben Hollis
This is great news and will take a lot of pressure off of web developers who are currently tearing their hair out over IE6. The decision to make IE7 an autoupdate brings joy to my heart.

I am sorta sad that none of the three test cases I submitted to the compat team have been fixed, at least on version 7.0.5472.5:

http://brh.numbera.com/experiments/ie7_tests/menu.html
http://brh.numbera.com/experiments/ie7_tests/newbox.html
http://brh.numbera.com/experiments/ie7_tests/zindex.html

I guess I'd feel better if I hadn't encountered these three bugs on a single page! I hope you guys hold on to these test cases for the next round of bugfixes.

# Scobleizer - Tech Geek Blogger &raquo; IE 7 team shares CSS and Web Standards changes

# Crazy Factor &raquo; IE 7 team shares CSS and Web Standards changes

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:19 AM by Rocketeer
I hope that all these improvements will shorten the time required to get markup to render exactly as it's supposed to! can't wait!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:38 AM by Vitaly Harisov
I hope display: table, table-row, table-cell will be supported in MSIE7final as well.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:45 AM by frankf
I'm glad to see the changes.  While you admit that work needs to be done in a future version, the changes you've made now can put some webdesigners at ease when it comes to building basic pages.

On <a href="http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.InternetExplorerStandardsSupport">Channel">http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.InternetExplorerStandardsSupport">Channel 9</a> (http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.InternetExplorerStandardsSupport, if it doesn't link) I read about IE6 quirks mode in addition to quirks and standards mode.  Is this really going to be finalized in IE7?

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 3:53 AM by JMorton
"Background-attachment: fixed works on all elements – so Eric Meyer’s complexspiral demo works"

I noticed in IE7b2, that changing the zoom of the page changes the size of the background picture of the div and header elements, but the size of the body's background picture does not change size.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:03 AM by Tino Zijdel
Dave Massy: thanks for that explanation on the PNG changes. My assumption was based on the fact that some people are telling that the current handling of PNG images in IE7 isn't much different from the handling of IE6 with the so-called 'PNG-fix' (using a filter).
I guess the problem lies in the fact that your PNG-implementation treads gamma-information differently than other browsers. Usually the gamma-informatin stored in a PNGH-image is based on guesses by the authoring tool so it is not reliable and the best way to deal with this is to just ignore this information if present.

As for the 'native' XMLHttpRequest; as long as I can't add prototyped methods to this object it isn't in my opinion a true native javascript object.

# V IE 7 bude opraven??ch cez 200 CSS bugov na depi.sk - IT &#038; Life Weblog

# Anders Brunholm Sylvest &raquo; List of CSS changes in IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:12 AM by Anders Brunholm Sylvest » List of CSS changes in IE7

# pilmore, lee &raquo; Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:13 AM by pilmore, lee » Details on our CSS changes for IE7

# Articoli su web design, accessibilit??, xhtml e css - TomStardust.com

# rakis lab.net &raquo; ??bersicht ??ber CSS-??nderungen im IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:20 AM by rakis lab.net » ??bersicht ??ber CSS-??nderungen im IE7

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 4:59 AM by anonymous
In case the IE team has forgotten, there are other standards too besides CSS, and whether developers use them/need them or not, as a browser IE MUST support them. What about XHTML, DOM, SVG and the many many XML standards? I dont mean to downplay IE7 but then get the standards support right with IE8 rather than focussing on other features.

# The Inside Of My Head &raquo; In front, but still chasing the pack

# CSS3 . info - &raquo; CSS changes in IE7 - Weblog

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 5:22 AM by CSS3 . info - » CSS changes in IE7 - Weblog

# Internet Explorer 7 development has finished! &raquo; The PC Doctor

# Rose tinted web? &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; IE7 Blog talking about CSS compliance

# Clearing floats withour structural markup

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:43 AM by Diederik
From what I've read, IE7 fill fail when sites use CSS to clear floats without structural markup:
http://www.positioniseverything.net/easyclearing.html

The problem is:
- All other modern browsers support :after to accomplish this. IE7 does not.
- for IE6 and below the "expanding box" bug was abused to acchieve the same effect.

How is it possible to do this in IE7?

# display:table

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:56 AM by Kim
What about support for display:table, display:table-cell, display:table-row etc. ?


http://www.w3schools.com/css/pr_class_display.asp

# Master Development Blog &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; IE7 CSS

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 6:58 AM by Master Development Blog » Blog Archive » IE7 CSS

# CSS-Erweiterungen und Verbesserungen im Internet Explorer 7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:09 AM by Thomas goes .NET

# CSS Greut &raquo; IE7 klaar voor verzending

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:13 AM by CSS Greut » IE7 klaar voor verzending

# links for 2006-08-23

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:17 AM by Quicklinks
The definitive heatmap Generate a heatmap of user clicks using Javascript and Ruby (tags: ruby webdesign usability) IEBlog : Details on our CSS changes for IE7 A bunch of really really annoying bugs have been fixed for IE, excellent...

# &raquo; Microsoft: &#8216;Nog veel werk aan CSS-ondersteuning&#8217; &raquo; Your Digital Way

# "Addressed many relative positioning issues"

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:20 AM by Els
Would this <a href="http://locusoptimus.com/css-trickery/ie7-position-relative-bug.php">IE7 position relative bug</a> by any chance be included in the "many relative positioning issues" that were fixed?

# "Addressed many relative positioning issues"

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:23 AM by Els
Oops, forgot I can't use html in comments here.

Would this IE7 position relative bug ( http://locusoptimus.com/css-trickery/ie7-position-relative-bug.php ) by any chance be included in the "many relative positioning issues" that were fixed?

# otro blog m?s &raquo; Unos cuantos de desarrollo web (XCVII)

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:26 AM by otro blog m?s » Unos cuantos de desarrollo web (XCVII)

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:36 AM by dongbinghua
nice news

# IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:39 AM by kaspertanggaard.dk
Uha, efter at have l&#230;st denne post p&#229; den glimrende IE Blog begynder jeg n&#230;sten at gl&#230;de mig til IE7. Jeg har slet ikke f&#229;et testet den endnu, men noget kunne da tyde p&#229; at det bliver en lille smule lettere at designe websites

# IE7 CSS Changes +1 at Phin&#8217;s home on the net

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:40 AM by IE7 CSS Changes +1 at Phin’s home on the net

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 7:42 AM by Herman
Great job, I still have a somewhat odd request.

Could you leave in the bugs that we use as hacks?

I'd rather see IE7 have less bugs, but hackability for the few bugs it has, then completally unhackable to client-side solve the last bugs.

I'm talking about things like _height: etc. You've fixed that one, and now we need %height: etc. to hack out any remaining bugs.

And a list of bugs that aren't fixed yet would indeed be helpful. I understand that from a marketing point-of-view you would never publish a list of your own mistakes. But really, it would help the community a lot.

thanks anyway

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:01 AM by Jerry Mead
You might want to have a look to see what's going wrong here:

http://www.jcbdieselmax.com/html/news_detail.php?id=70&table=news

This doc renders fine in Firefox.

Hopefully this is not a case of a web developer allowing standards religion to get in the way of trumpeting a great British achievement to as wide an audience as possible.

Because that would be very, very stupid.

# On Influence and Automation &raquo; Blogging&#8217;s Role in IE7 Development

# ScriptTeaser &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; IE7 Locked Down

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:54 AM by ScriptTeaser » Blog Archive » IE7 Locked Down

# IE7 CSS changes at Am I Famous Now?

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:04 AM by IE7 CSS changes at Am I Famous Now?

# Marco Moura &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; Em breve os seletores Child/Sibling/Attribut !!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:12 AM by Michael Bailey
When will you completely acquire Firefox and then make it correctly display all web-pages as IE has done for a long time?

I'm really tired of hearing, "But it doesn't work in Firefox..."

Michael

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 9:50 AM by John Kitson
@ Jerry Mead: "Hopefully this is not a case of a web developer allowing standards religion to get in the way of trumpeting a great British achievement to as wide an audience as possible."

I would assume not:
http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jcbdieselmax.com%2Fhtml%2Fnews_detail.php%3Fid%3D70%26table%3Dnews

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:03 AM by David Hammond
The "fixed" border bugs, including the 1px dash bug and the background-not-containing-the-border-region bug, still exist on elements with hasLayout. Considering the massive amount of bugs with hasLayout, I think the whole concept should be scrapped.

The PNG colorization bugs exist on PNG images that contain gamma correction information. This includes every PNG image created by Photoshop, and so this is a huge problem and makes it a nuisance to create PNG images that display properly in IE.

For those of you who think the Acid2 test is crap just because it tests parsing errors, this is very important and the source of many potential bugs with valid documents. The strict error handling rules are designed to make room for future additions to the CSS standard (such as CSS 3 and beyond). If a browser doesn't correctly follow the error handling rules, it could have unexpected resutls on valid features that it simply doesn't support yet. Proper error handling will help reduce the workload involved in supporting today's browsers several years down the road. The lack of strictly standards-compliant parsing is even the source of many of today's IE bugs. Also, error handling is just one part of the Acid2 test; it tests a lot more than that.

@Herman: The most reliable way to target Internet Explorer or specific versions thereof is to use IE conditional comments. If you absolutely need in-CSS hacks, the new *:first-child+html {} hack will select IE7 and possibly future versions if the bug isn't fixed. It relies on the fact that IE seems to treat doctypes and comments as elements in the CSS selectors.

@Michael Bailey: Unfortunately for you, Internet Explorer will start behaving more and more like Firefox and Opera over time. The web development community generally wants improved standard support, and that's what the IE development team has promised us. As it stands, Firefox and Opera have very standards-compliant bases and years of progress ahead of IE, and IE is trying to play catch-up. If your page works in IE and not in Firefox, it will likely break in a future version of IE too as they fix the bugs you're apparently relying on. Don't cling to loose rocks.

I developed a test suite of many CSS layout bugs that exist in IE7: http://www.webdevout.net/testcases/ie7_mass/ Be sure to read the text first.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:15 AM by vtondrjc
The following in your posting
"Finally, we added new features from CSS2.1: . . . .
Fixed positioning support"
confuses me.

Please see Microsoft Connect Feedback item 173370 which was updated August 22 - after an initial response which really pi..ed me off (have a look yourself).

What is the <real> situation regarding fixed positioning support (which worked to some extent up to beta 2 but seems to have been withdrawn/removed from beta 3).

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:17 AM by Chris Hunt
Well done people, it looks like IE7 (have the marketing droids been defeated over the IE7+ nonsense?) is going to be a real step forward.

One thing I noticed in the "Cascading Style Sheet Compatibility in Internet Explorer 7" document is that it says in the "Working around overflow:visible default behavior" section: "There is a declarative solution using min/max width/height properties, which are currently not supported." But it says here that they *are* supported, so what gives? Incidentally, couldn't people fix the overflow "problem" by specifying overflow:auto rather than reaching for javascript?

Don't let the whingers get you down. Sure there's a lot of improvements still to be made, but you've done a great job so far.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:23 AM by William J Edney
@Chris: min/max width/height were added in either beta2 or beta3.... that document is old and in serious need of updating.

Once you fix overflow: visible to have the proper behavior, life would quickly become hellish if you didn't have these as well :-)

Cheers,

- Bill

# IEBlog details the CSS changes for IE7 &raquo; Hello..and you are?

# G.D. Sanders &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; Details on CSS changes in IE7

# Dirk Watkins - dirk.watkins &raquo; IE7 Beta 3 CSS Support Lacking (Still)

# Practical Guile &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; Is IE7 finally going to play nice?

# New Browser Should Not Mean Redesigning a Website &raquo; Another Blogger

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:58 AM by Jeffrey Whitney
Just wanted to say thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you thank you!!

I have been (for a long time now) a table/gif shim layout guy. I hate doing things that way! But honestly, it's just too damn hard to do layout properly in css with the current version of IE.

I've been saying to people that I don't care if they add ONE new feature in IE7 as long as they take care of the CSS compliance issue. You guys are absolutely doing the right things here and I couldn't be happier!!!

Seriously, this is VASTLY more important than anything else included in IE7, (except possiblly security). All the rest of it (tabbed browsing et al) is just window dressing. The work you guys did here will be much more important to the world, even if they don't know it.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 10:59 AM by Aedrin
"Could you leave in the bugs that we use as hacks?

I'd rather see IE7 have less bugs, but hackability for the few bugs it has, then completally unhackable to client-side solve the last bugs.

I'm talking about things like _height: etc. You've fixed that one, and now we need %height: etc. to hack out any remaining bugs."


This is similar to browser sniffing and is a detriment to the Web. Hacks are bad techniques and cause more problems than they solve. I just hope this nonsense stops with IE7... Though I am sure people will spend many nights finding more hacks.

# Internet Explorer 7 und CSS 2.1 Unterst&uuml;tzung // Jeriko One

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:14 AM by Richard York
Thanks for the great list.

"# Addressed many relative positioning issues
# Addressed many absolute positioned issues "

...

"And many more"

Some areas here were glossed over a bit.  I'd like to see a list that doesn't have the phrases: and so on, etc, et al, and many more, several, many, and other ambiguities.  Are you going to be able to make a post that has all of these missing details filled in?  Will this information be in updated MSDN docs?  If so, when do you think we can expect to see that information?

Thanks for all of your hard work!

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:17 AM by Archeious
As requesteed by The View master.

http://www.arcanatower.com/diggSS.png

screen shot of digg, when I am logged in, and the version of IE7.

# {display: table} Didn't enough a few minutes?..

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:25 AM by MT
That's great, but it's truly astonishing that so ELEMENTARY and at the same time MAJOR thing as {display: table} is not supported though it only needs to write small WRAPPER to EXISTING TABLE RENDERING ENGINE. It's definitely inconceivable.

Very, very hopefully it will be supported in final release. Thanks in advance, again...

# Web Dev with IE

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:43 AM by Codemunicator
   Everybody who has done any cross-browser web development is aware of the many&amp;#160;quirks of IE6,...

# A bit of this, a bit of that&#8230; &raquo; IE7 CSS Support Update

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:46 AM by A bit of this, a bit of that… » IE7 CSS Support Update

# SPlay Blog &raquo; Bugfixes in IE 7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:48 AM by SPlay Blog » Bugfixes in IE 7

# Alan Rawkins - Interactive Media

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:05 PM by Alan Rawkins - Interactive Media

# Microsoft details CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:09 PM by TrackBack
We are currently locking down Internet Explorer 7 for shipping and I wanted to give an update on the CSS work that went into IE7. We listened to a lot of feedback to help us address the most grievous bugs and prioritize which features to put in IE7.

# worklog &raquo; IE 7 yippedy do

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:09 PM by worklog » IE 7 yippedy do

# En webbplats p?? svenska om xhtml &raquo; Det k??nns om om IE7 b??rjar n??rma sig tror jag&#8230;

# Listado de cambios de CSS en IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:27 PM by meneame.net
Lista actualizada de los bugs corregidos y nuevas implementaciones de CSS 2.1 que han sido a&#241;adidos a IE7.

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:38 PM by Terry
Ever going to fix the slow GIF animations? :(  GIFs render so much slower compared to FireFox and other browsers.. I also have this weird bug in IE7 Beta 2(just started to DL Beta 3) where GIF animations will be extremely slow until I do a properties view on them, then they speed up? (?)

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:01 PM by Markus [MSFT]
@ Ben Hollis
Test #1 is fixed
Test #2 and #3 will be done in future release (we pretty much ran out of time).

@ Frankf
There is only a switch in the engine between quirksmode and standard mode. We just introduced standard moe in IE^ and therefore the quirksbehavior is frozen since then.

@ Kim
We previously stated that display:table is not part of the IE7 release. We know it is a highly requested feature and it is on our "to do" list.

@ ELS
Your test cases seemed to be fixed

@ Herman
You might want to use conditional comments instead of CSS hacks. They are easier to maintain and do not break with upcoming versions.

@ Jerry Mead
the site is full of hacks that we removed form IE7. We will work with the site owners to hep them to incorporate conditional comments.
http://www.jcbdieselmax.com/css/general.css
-------------------------------------------
Star HTML Hack
* html : 11 instance(s)

@ David Hammond
Thanks David for the test cases. We will take a look. This is a great example that helps us identify issues and thereby help to improve our support. Same for everyone on the blog that posts test/failure cases or submits connect bugs.

@ Chris Hunt
The documentationis outdated and will be updated withthe next refresh

# Agile .NET Geek &raquo; Blog Archive &raquo; One Big Step Toward Web Compliance&#8230;

# Big Red&#8217;s Place &raquo; IE7 CSS Standards update

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:03 PM by Big Red’s Place » IE7 CSS Standards update

# IE Resources | Daniel Wilkinson | Web Design &#038; Consulting

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:39 PM by Arik
I like the fact Microsoft and the IE7 Team are working hard to make IE7 standards compliant. But, (there's always a but) there is so much left undone. We couldn't get real changes in the sea of updates applied over the years to IE6. And yet with IE7 we still have to wait and take IE7 for a grain of salt.

I understand the whole issue of backwards compatibility. But why does it matter. Are people honestly going to be happy with IE 5.5 or IE6 three years from now? I wouldn't think so, especially with the advent of new blood like FF and Opera. Which are leaps and bounds better than the still unreleased IE7.

With so much running behind IE7 and Microsoft in general, I expected much more than just a patch release sugar-coated as major release. I really believe Microsoft and the IE7 team needs to take a risk and step away from what made IE6 such a terrible browser and experience altogether. Compromise for backwards compatibility has only disappointed users. It creates an expectation of nothing new or dissatisfaction.

- A Designer who remains unimpressed.

# Code Thread &raquo; List of bug fixes in IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:58 PM by Code Thread » List of bug fixes in IE7

# re: Details on our CSS changes for IE7

Wednesday, August 23, 2006 1:59 PM by