Working Together for a Better Web

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Maxine Sherrin — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:16:59 GMT

Go for it Molly - do us all proud, I know you will :)

Good luck!

Chris Casciano — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:19:41 GMT

I look forward to seeing what you hand the team have in store.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Keith — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:20:20 GMT

Woo hoo! Congrats, Molly.

Good to see that you're carrying on your work directly with MS, and that Microsoft appears to be taking interoperability and cross-browser issues seriously.

Looking forward to reading your upcoming comments on the new gig.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Kevin Lawver — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:22:27 GMT

Good luck, Molly! Looking forward to working with you! Does that mean you'll be a more permanent fixture at W3C meetings (pretty please)?

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Faruk — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:23:47 GMT

You're a rock star and you know it =)

Improvin' the world one team at a time ;-)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Olly — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:26:41 GMT

Nice one Molly! No pressure, but we're all counting on you out here ;-)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Mike Stickel — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:27:11 GMT

Congrats Molly! It sounds like quite a challenge but I'm sure you're up to it.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Ben Buchanan — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:27:14 GMT

Hey this is great news. Go Molly! :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Vicki — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:27:43 GMT

Best news I've heard in a while, Molly! Congratulations and best of luck.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Reinier Meenhorst — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:30:25 GMT

Great. My guess is it will be soaring instead of crashing, Molly.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Chris Messina — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:31:03 GMT

Right on! Can't wait to see your work surface!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Dmitry Baranovskiy — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:33:13 GMT

That's great news! It is very brave step to move to weakest place of the web to make it better. Hooray to you, Molly.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Nick Cowie — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:35:13 GMT

Good luck, though you should not need it (except maybe dealing with the MS Office-Outlook people or nailing a stake through their heart ;-)

Looking forward to what your team will be doing

Molly Holzschlag, IE Web Casts & IIS DownloadCENTER

PeteL's Blog — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:35:26 GMT

Molly I'm really excited about the announcement we made on the IE Blog earlier today. Molly Holzschlag

re: Working Together for a Better Web

pauldwaite — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:49:07 GMT

Yowser! Didn't see that one coming. I guess Bill liked ya, huh? :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

sheldon — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:58:07 GMT

Molly, if you can pursuade the Microsoft Development team into adopting just a mere few standards, the world will be a better place!

I hope that the "Daily Molly" also points out the shortcommings of IE in the Web Standards world, and just how much it is holding back the Web development community as a whole.

e.g.:

Use CSS to style a list..

li {

display: block;

...

MSIE will need additional hacks, if this

list is placed in a scrolling div or

similar, as it wrongly includes the

scrollbars in the desired width.

}

Although the DOM method: getElementById( id ); is implemented in all modern browsers, *beware* that the IE6/IE7 implementation is broken, returning nodes with a matching name attribute as well.

These are the kind of thing that bite us developers every day.

sheldon

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Tuna — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:19:28 GMT

Congratulations Molly, I feel like we have just got an insider who has the passion and understanding of web standards working with us.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

goodwitch — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:20:20 GMT

Molly, this is fantastic news! You inspire us to see problems, brainstorm solutions and then make it happen.

Thank you for your diplomatic leadership and your ability to turn dreams into reality.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

pauldwaite — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:22:12 GMT

Yowser! Didn't see that one coming. I guess Bill liked ya, huh? :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

cooperpx — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:39:55 GMT

Good luck with your contracting endevours with Microsoft. I hope your new fangled ideas take well on campus. ;)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

AC — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 04:46:05 GMT

Hi Molly, good luck at your new job as you're really need it. Unfortunately as long as Microsoft treats standards as an after-though, the Web will remain the way it is. Microsoft should force a big group of its employees to use Opera or Firefox, only then will they realize that what they're producing isn't standard compliant. If all they use is IE, how are they going to realize they've made a mistake? Testing lags behind development by a significant margin.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Alex — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:05:25 GMT

As a web applications developer, I couldn't be happier... even though there's still a ways to catch up in terms of standards support, I'm now looking forward to what comes out of the IE team more and more, especially with news like this. One question: do you know what this means for the likes of the Outlook/Word fiasco (too harsh? how about "change of direction"?) in terms of standards support in future Office versions?

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Tom Morris — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:10:33 GMT

Cool stuff, Molly. Now I know why you were talking about interoperability so much - that sounds like a much nicer phrase to Redmond than standards.

If IE7 used application/xml+xhtml, we might finally be able to start undoing the historic ties between HTML and SGML and move to a fully XMLized web. Which would significantly reduce headaches.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Ian Muir — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:11:16 GMT

w00t!

Yeah Molly! Have fun working with the IE team, I'm sure that it will be a good experience for you and provide some great input for the IE team.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Anthony Mills — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 05:21:29 GMT

Get 'em to support data URLs ... please? :)

Good job on the IE team nabbing you ... maybe they are serious this time. I guess they did implement PNGs finally. :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Xepol — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:11:55 GMT

Standards are good, but only if well enough documented.

I suspect that you have a LOT of work ahead of you. Not just adhearing to those standards, but getting people to agree what they actually are.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Xepol — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:12:26 GMT

That said, welcome to the team.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Cam — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:13:08 GMT

Wicked - congrats Molly, and well done MS... you've picked up a great person.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

cooperpx — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:22:28 GMT

@ Anthony Mills

In IE7, printing a PNG with *any* transparency causes nasty 2 bit black and white image (no grey-scale). Also PNG colors won't match up with css (unless you use a tool to remove the GAMA chunk).

Anyhow, this is off topic. I really do wish you luck Molly!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Ron — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:28:09 GMT

This is a good sign from the IE team, I'm looking forward to the future.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Phil — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:48:26 GMT

When I saw this title, it made me laugh. IE - A better web? Isn't that an oxymoron? Maybe I'm coming across too strong. However, I am very pleased to read this. I hope you will have an impact on the standards support in IE.

I would say that if I could have IE change one thing, I would want it to actually render the MIME type application/xhtml+xml instead of try to download it. Ugh.

I hope you will help with IE's issues.

Phil

re: Working Together for a Better Web

carter — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:53:45 GMT

Cool, this is great news! Good luck Molly. Here's looking forward to IE8 :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Doug Karr — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 06:55:05 GMT

Good luck, Molly. Perhaps MS should look for an "In Reach" rep as well. I can't tell you the difficulties in developing for 3+ browsers nowadays... and IE is not the exception, it's one of the issues.

As well, any way you can go strangle those guys in Office 2007 who won't be supporting some basic HTML in emails? Now I have to develop HTML emails differently, too.

Arrrgh. You guys are losing me.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Will — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 07:32:04 GMT

"In IE7, printing a PNG with *any* transparency causes nasty 2 bit black and white image (no grey-scale). "

That depends on your printer driver; some of them don't correctly implement the transparency features.

"I would want it to actually render the MIME type application/xhtml+xml instead of try to download it"

Why would you want IE to "try" to render a format that it doesn't support?

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Christian Montoya — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:02:10 GMT

Wow, with you assisting the IE team, I can actually see XHTML support somewhere down the road (hint hint, adopt the Gecko platform!).

No pressure, but we're counting on you Molly!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Matt Brundage — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 08:12:21 GMT

Molly, try to convince the IE Dev. team to ditch Trident and go with Gecko 1.8.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

David Naylor — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 09:55:06 GMT

Matt: Gecko 1.9 would be a weck of a lot better.

Molly: Great news! Just like everyone else I can't wait to see the fruits of this!

The Molly and IE story keeps getting better

alexbarnett.net blog — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 10:05:55 GMT

Molly E. Holzschlag , formerly of the Web Standards Project (WASP) has joined the IE team on a contract

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Hans — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:31:21 GMT

@"Molly, try to convince the IE Dev. team to ditch Trident and go with Gecko 1.8"

O no please do not use the stupid slow nerdy Gecko engine.. just fix the one from MS....

re: Working Together for a Better Web

dd — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:36:01 GMT

Good Golly Miss Molly.

There, it's done. Someone had to do it.

Oh standards amongst web browsers .. it's such a utopian dream. I wonder if I'll live to see the day, or if the stress of building cross-browser sites will get me first. Things were so much easier when IE was killing the opposition - before Firefox and Safari came along with their appallingly poor ability to render a web page. Although IE7 is a close second now to Safari in quirkyness.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Peter Goddard — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:36:58 GMT

Hi Molly

As a long time standards supporter, now working in .NET Web Development, get some good stuff from the .NET team at Microsoft. They know about standards, have incorporated a lot into the new Expression tools and CSS adapter dev tools and could be a huge support to you.

The very best of luck and great success for the future on this project and beyond.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Frances — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 11:44:24 GMT

Congrats Molls. Looking forward to seeing what influence you have with the IE team. Can only be a good thing!

Molly a Microsoft

www.webeame.net — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:10:23 GMT

Artículo del blog de Internet Explorer donde la propia Molly explica sus propósitos en su andadura de trabajar codo con codo con los miembros del equipo de Internet Explorer

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Flash — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:31:56 GMT

All I can say is that you have *every* Web Developers support by trying to make IE a more standards compliant browser. Even though it should have been this 5 years ago, it's never to late for a leopard to change it's spots :)

I hope we can strive to reach the "uptopia" that we all dream of!!

Good luck at your new job and we wish every bit of success! Very exciting stuff :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Tobias — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 12:59:04 GMT

Seeing you in that team actually restores my hope that there still will be web-standards in the future! Thanks & good luck!

Re: Working Together for a Better Web

noblog — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:38:45 GMT

モーリーってあのモーリー!?IEBlog : Working Together for a Better WebI’d like to introduce myself. I’m Molly E. Holzschlag, and I’m excited to announce that I’ve signed on with the Internet Explorer team on a contract basis to work on standards and interoperability

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Stewart — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 13:49:07 GMT

Congrats and good luck - and well done to Microsoft for taking you on!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Jens Nedal — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:15:51 GMT

All praise Molly E. Holzschlag, for she will bring order to the web. ohm. *clap*

re: Working Together for a Better Web

keith — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:25:55 GMT

This is wonderful news indeed - I want to like IE as it was for me, like for many, the first window onto the World Wide Web. Yet IE7 although much improved on the hopelessly outdated and out-moded IE6, is still painfully inadequate and lacking in standards compliance. With Molly on board I expect some leaping...erm... leaps towards such compliance. Be warned however, many people will be expecting miracles!

Molly E. Holzschlag rejoint Microsoft

Lanquarem Webconsulting — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:38:05 GMT

Que Molly rejoigne Microsoft, c'est une nouvelle inattendue, un peu comme si Zidane rejoignait l'quipe d'Italie. Infatigable vanglisatrice des standards du Web au sein du projet WASP (webstandards.org), elle fait partie de ceux qui ont...

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Lloydi — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:40:16 GMT

If I were crass I might say something like 'better to be on the inside p***ing out than on the outside p***ing in'. But that's not my staly :-D

Adding to the chorus above - congrats Molly. You've worked hard and I sincerely hope that MS realise what an asset they have with you there and make *full* use of your skills. You have an excellent position to influence from within, now, and are in a great position to bridge that gap between the standards purists and the people working with the reality of many years of MS baggage/legacy.

Go get 'em tiger!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Phil Sherry — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:59:45 GMT

Step #1: Fix "The Daily Molly" so that it validates: "This page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Frameset!"

Someone had to say it, so it may as well have been me! :D

Nit-picking aside, this is great news. I really hope this is the beginning of good things, and an end to all those annoying little problems.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Raanan Avidor — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:25:37 GMT

LUKE: Is the dark side stronger?

YODA: No... no... no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Carlos Eduardo de Souza — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:43:29 GMT

Good luck Molly!

I think it will help us (Web Developers) a lot, making Internet Explorer a better browser, more Web Standards compliance...

So, we will not lose much time to correct some bugs on sites, or we doesn't will need to use "IE hacks" anymore...

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Dale Crowder — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:45:28 GMT

Can someone tell me where to get support for IE 7 and xp tablet pc. Everywhere I go it tells me my browser is not supported. Even my Microsoft Partner web site. Sorta humerous, but I figured someone has already worked throught the issues.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Robert Gaut — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:54:24 GMT

This just made my day. Congratulations, Molly! Keep up the good fight. You rock!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Lorissa — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:59:35 GMT

This is very exciting news! Congratulations Molly. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing what comes of this - perhaps there is indeed some hope now!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Vernon — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:03:48 GMT

Good luck, Molly! Can you imagine that you could serve as the difference maker to bring IE closer to standards? I'm sure it'll be a tough job, but you have my support!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Carl Camera — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:26:57 GMT

I'd like to congratulate the IE Team for being openminded and smart enough to bring Molly aboard. The team will certainly benefit from her knowledge, experience, and diplomacy. And Molly, you might learn a thing or two too. :-) Best wishes for an amicable partnership.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

cooperpx — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 17:52:48 GMT

@ Will

>> "In IE7, printing a PNG with *any* transparency causes nasty 2 bit black and white image (no grey-scale). "

>> >> That depends on your printer driver; some of them don't correctly implement the transparency features.

I don't buy it.

I'm talking about an 8 bit PNG with single pixel transparency which is essentially a GIF. The reason why I know your explanation is completely incorrect is because a) the moment I put the AlphaImageLoader filter on, it prints correctly and b) these exact same images print correctly in all the other browsers which includes IE6.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Aedrin — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:13:58 GMT

Good news, and yet some still have to add in a negative comment.

"It is very brave step to move to weakest place of the web to make it better."

Weasel words, anyone?

"Microsoft should force a big group of its employees to use Opera or Firefox"

Don't you think they know what Opera and Firefox are like? Have you ever seen a succesful company that doesn't look at its competitor's products?

"I suspect that you have a LOT of work ahead of you. Not just adhearing to those standards, but getting people to agree what they actually are."

Who actually thinks that people in Microsoft sit around blasting standards all day?

I think it has a lot more to do with backwards compatibility, and time.

"When I saw this title, it made me laugh. IE - A better web?"

Yeah. It's not like XmlHttpRequest ever did the web any good, or that rotten piece of software called the DHTML editing control.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Adrian Turner — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 18:47:35 GMT

Many thanks and Bless You! I know you will do us proud.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Dan — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:07:20 GMT

Congrats to both the IE Team and Molly. Hiring Molly is not only a great move because she's brilliant, but also shows Microsoft's dedication to "play nice." It's a great move and I'm thrilled to see it happen. Good things are ahead for Microsoft, the web, and Molly.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

DeWayne Purdy — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 19:35:58 GMT

Congratulations, Molly! It's easy to stand on the outside and throw rocks, it takes a much bigger person to go inside to try to make change happen. Way to go!

Unlikely Partnership

K-Squared Ramblings — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:44:04 GMT

Here’s a surprise: web standardista extraordinaire Molly Holzschlag is now working with Microsoft to promote web standards within the organization.

Improving interoperability, especially at high-profile services like many of Microsoft’s, is..

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Steve Ganz — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 20:49:34 GMT

This is exciting news for Web professionals everywhere. Congratulations, Molly! Better yet, congratulations Microsoft!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Bruce — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 21:07:21 GMT

While I also add my congratulations on this news I also am a bit nervous. My concern is that web standards are more than CSS. Microsoft and WaSP has been completely silent on ANY web standard other than CSS in the past few years. Do you support SVG as a standard or will you promote WPF/e as a direct competitor? Will you take a stand on adoption of XSLT 2? XPath? How many web technologies did ACID1 and ACID2 employ?

I wish you good luck with this effort but I have to remind you in your post that you mentioned web standards five times and never mention CSS once. I hope this is your perspective.

Good luck

re: Working Together for a Better Web

TMaster — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:44:17 GMT

Interesting. I see you care about standards a lot. Now let me ask you a few things, please :-)

1) What about OPEN web standards? Does Microsoft genuininely want to advance OPEN standards?

2) WPF/E - under what kind of license is the documentation and such available? Would it be easy to make a competitive environment available under the GNU General Public License version 3?

3) Frankly, this is the only one I care about myself: please remove any support for "content protection" from WPF and WPF/E. We all know what that means - Digital Restrictions Management.

Sorry to sound like such a blind Linux weirdo. I'm not anti-Microsoft or anything, I mostly like a lot of Microsoft products (Internet Explorer, Windows) - I just don't like DRM and such.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Jon Tan — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 22:59:57 GMT

Congratulations to you and Microsoft, Molly. As one of the silent majority who have wasted countless working hours compensating for poor Standards support, this fills me with hope for the future. Very best wishes and all the best.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Scott — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 23:37:28 GMT

This is the best news I've heard about IE in a very long time. Best wishes to you and good luck with the new position!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Sheila — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:07:09 GMT

Good luck Molly! I look forward to seeing the results :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Bash — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 00:33:31 GMT

Congrats Molly!!!!

I must admit that Pete's comment kinda bothers me though.

"Molly’s unique capabilities are ideal for this position and I know she will be successful in connecting the web community with us"

Shouldn't that be connecting us to the web community? Still sounds like MS wants us to bend to them.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Aedrin — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 01:00:48 GMT

"I must admit that Pete's comment kinda bothers me though."

I think you missed a spot of tin foil on your hat.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Jessica — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:33:09 GMT

Great news Molly, best of luck, I know you'll do us all proud. It's great to see people standing up and tackling issues head on through education.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

andrew finkenstadt — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 02:42:17 GMT

Congratulations Molly!

--andy, who missed getting andy.com by just a couple of days back then...

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Billee D. — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 03:41:53 GMT

Excellent work, Molly! It really excites me to think that after all these years Microsoft is actively seeking modern web design professionals with the intention of bringing better standards to their browser. Congratulations and I look forward to reading (and hopefully "seeing") your ideas and work with MS take root in positive ways.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

goose — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 12:40:51 GMT

I look forward to IE-branded tips and tricks tutorials from you and other industry experts, Molly! At last, somewhere I can go and not be told to download Firefox.

Who can make better browser than those who made the operating system? No one.

Tim-Berners-Lee was right. Interoperable Internet Explorer versions are the best solution.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

André Luís — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:38:50 GMT

Great news. IE7 was/is a great achievement, but there's no time to stop and gloat. Keep it up guys, and with Molly by your side I'm pretty sure Microsoft will regain the community's respect. You've got a lot to make up for.

Also, spread the love guys:

http://digg.com/software/Molly_Holzschlag_joins_the_IE_Team_Salvation

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Jan Schnurle — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 17:45:23 GMT

Molly, im trully happy for this!

Finally i'm a litle less concerned about CSS / IE7!

I wish you best luck and kick some ass at MS!!!

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Martijn ten Napel — Thu, 01 Feb 2007 22:37:32 GMT

For me the key phrase is:

"To provide resources to Web designers and developers (including internal developers at Microsoft) as they work toward a more standards-oriented goal - no matter which tools and technologies are being used."

That brings a great smile upon my face. I hope you can not only educate the engineers of IE, but also the people responsible for creating content on all Microsoft related websites. It would be absolutely marvelous if Microsoft themselves would turn their own websites towards the standards they contributed themselves to.

If anyone can do it, you can.

We should congratulate Microsoft for employing you.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

gary turner — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:26:54 GMT

This would explain the sycophantic "interview" of Bill Gates.

But, good luck.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Mike Bryan — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 02:31:42 GMT

Wow nice going Molly. Looking forward to version IE7.1

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Niko Neugebauer — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:39:38 GMT

Nice one, Molly. =O)

Microsoft lately started doing some smart moves, i hope this will continue. First you've got to make an interview with Bill Gates, and right "now" you have got this job. I hope this job will be something we all wait and hope for. Good luck! =O)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Timothy McCorkell — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 10:53:44 GMT

I think the real solution to the web is to just make it like television. Could you imagine how irate football fans would react to a server crash problem that canceled the viewing of their favotite team on television.

Till the web is more like television only geeks will take it seriously. Another problem is the darned heat factor. You could leave your television on for days without a problem. But run your computer more than a few hours, and you've got big over heating problems.

Anyway, I'm very glad you're on the team. You seem very sensible. And I would gladly trade geek for sensible any time. Good luck to you.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

aryan — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 11:06:49 GMT

i need to work with internet explorer

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Elsa — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 13:30:56 GMT

This is great news, and the best of luck in your new role.

Congratulations to both you and Microsoft. It's a brilliant call on both your parts and I can't wait to see the results.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

tedd — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 20:05:43 GMT

Molly:

Oh no, this can't be good -- you're only going to corrupt Microsoft into doing something right. :-)

Best of luck.

tedd

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Keith Burgin — Fri, 02 Feb 2007 23:36:19 GMT

"This would explain the sycophantic "interview" of Bill Gates."

It couldn't be that Molly is one of the foremost standards evangelists in the business... no, that wouldn't be it. It couldn't be that she's brilliant and has authored 30 some books... no. And, no, it wouldn't be that she's an experienced teacher who is used to educating people.

Nah, none of those are the reasons count in Microsoft's decision to hire her. You're right, it must be that Molly didn't consult you before spending five minutes with Gates - being as you could never hope to get close to him... and she didn't ask your questions or be impolite. Yup, the fix was in all along.

By the way, Gary, you've got a spot of chocolate pudding on your pajamas. Better ask your mom to wipe it off.

Molly Holzschlag Signs Up for IE Standards and Interop Improvement

Keith Smith's Blog — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 03:09:04 GMT

I am wrapping up my week by clearing the backlog of blogging I intended to do but have not had time until

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Tom — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 05:34:55 GMT

Great news Molly! Good work IE team, sometimes it's hard to admit you need help but I can't think of anyone better to be working with on it.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

bob — Sat, 03 Feb 2007 14:47:30 GMT

Good Luck...but it would be great if they can get someone to fix the issues with TurboTax Web so I can complete a form using IE and not having to install FoxFire. Buggy IE

re: Working Together for a Better Web

gary turner — Mon, 05 Feb 2007 08:25:54 GMT

"By the way, Gary, you've got a spot of chocolate pudding on your pajamas. Better ask your mom to wipe it off." --Keith Burgin

Ah, Keith, I've been around a bit longer than that. More likely, I would be wiping the spot from my 82 year old mother's jammies, as she's had a few strokes.

I go back to disk BASIC in the 70s, and the first PCs with DOS, and before that to machine code toggled into Z80s, 8600s and 8080s on wire-wrapped boards. So, while I'm not a coding wizard, I do have some background from the ground up, and I do handle my chocolate pudding just fine, thank you.

By about 1999, I was marking up web sites, cursing the differences between IE and NN, and wishing for some kind of standard. Of course the standards did exist and Netscape did the brave thing; they scrapped previous proprietary work and developed a standards compliant rendering engine. With the arrival of IE6, cross browser coding was possible—not always easy, but possible. IE's rendering was lacking in support, and what support it did have was often not exactly Kosher. Meanwhile, Opera's support and that of the KHTML and Gecko engines continued to improve while IE6 languished. Moz/Gecko and Opera are about three nines compliant, while IE remains at less than 50% of css2.1. Why?

With IE7, Molly gushed over the improvements, implying that MSFT was making great strides toward W3 css and html compliance. In fact, IE7 is a minor point revision. It fixes some of the more egregious bugs, those described at John and Holly's PIE, and it adds some selector support. There are no other non-trivial improvements to the rendering engine. IE7 still has less than 50% support. The rest was cosmetic/marketing issues. From MSFT's own description of one soi disant fix was to invoke hasLayout when {overflow: hidden|auto;} was used to cause float enclosure. Since most of the PIE bug fixes used the same hack, it implies IE simply includes the Holly Hack or the equivalent internally for the fixes rather than actually fixing the code.

Among the "foremost standards evangelists in the business", as I believe you put it, Molly was the only one who didn't see IE7 as a marketing pop-gun.

If Molly was just being polite, introduced at court, so to speak, why did [i]she[/i] call it an interview? And if it was an interview, why the ass kissing? As polite conversation, it was of no interest in her blog.

I am not saying that she was hired because she made nicey nice in an "interview", I'm suggesting the fix was already in, and that's why she was the total sycophant.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Mirko — Wed, 07 Feb 2007 01:42:24 GMT

Glad to hear good news, good luck!

What a great idea

drew b — Wed, 07 Feb 2007 06:12:20 GMT

I'm glad someone thought of doing this.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Floppie — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 04:35:42 GMT

Glad to hear about this. The new layout I wrote for our website doesn't work in IE7 (maybe not IE6 either, haven't bothered to check - every time I'm using a Micro$oft product I get this weird urge to staple myself to my chair), and I refuse to fix a fully-validated XHTML strict site just because Trident, the slums of the browser world, won't render it correctly.

The fix I was planning on doing was a PHP fix - if the user is running IE7, display the old layout along with a suggestion to download a real browser (Firefox, Opera, hell even Konqueror run via NX). Maybe now I can just wait a little while, and I won't have to do that.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

The Hater — Thu, 08 Feb 2007 22:22:58 GMT

Well, color me jealous...

They couldn't have picked a better person for the job, though I think they should have given me a shot for a while, first.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Rob — Fri, 09 Feb 2007 03:02:22 GMT

Sell out.

Remember when I told you that last time Molly? I ragged on you big time but changed my mind when I saw you interview Chris Wilson at a conference. You got on his case so I thought I was wrong! Good for you. I was wrong!

Or am I? I'll take a wait and see but what does Microsoft need with you Molly? They are members of the W3C and you aren't. What do you have to teach the? Wilson was even invited to chair the W3C but you are going to teach him web standards?!

Something smelly this way comes.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Mark — Sat, 10 Feb 2007 10:25:51 GMT

I hope you can help fix IE's standards support.

Perhaps it would be easier if you used the Gecko rendering engine?? What's the point in working on Trident when there's a perfectly good rendering engine that's open source?

re: Working Together for a Better Web

hAl — Sun, 11 Feb 2007 22:17:50 GMT

[quote]What's the point in working on Trident when there's a perfectly good rendering engine that's open source?[/quote]

That it requires the software to use the GPL licensing for instance. That license gives all kinds of obligations that MS might not want for it's software.

Also as a company leading in producing commercial software it isn't a good idea to let your software be to dependant on third party softwaredevelopment.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Jussi Kukkonen — Sun, 11 Feb 2007 23:57:50 GMT

hAl, there's no requirement to use GPL with gecko. Quoth mozilla.org;

> All of the code which makes up the core Mozilla products is licensed under a MPL/GPL/LGPL tri-license

> or a licence compatible with all three of those (e.g. the BSD licence).

Otherwise your points are valid.

re: Working Together for a Better Web

prisca — Mon, 12 Feb 2007 02:38:33 GMT

Molly - you go girl :)

glad to see any excuse for the porr css support now being taken away - with you on board - there is hope yet ;)

Good luck :)

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Thacker — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 02:14:13 GMT

Quote, To provide resources to Web designers and developers (including internal developers at Microsoft) as they work toward a more standards-oriented goal - no matter which tools and technologies are being used. To achieve this, our group will be publishing educational material for designers and developers[...], End Quote.

When can a central repository of Internet Explorer 7.0 issues be expected?

For example, some of the issues in implementation of the CSS proprietary zoom property. That property appears to have some tremendous potential.

Getting trapped in the Microsoft telephone queue from hell for over 3 hours to get nowhere in getting a few direct development questions answered regarding the same is agitating at the least.

Then being left to some damn blog post that will never get answered ...

Until such concrete resources get "published", it remains "all hat and no cattle."

Sincerely,

C. Thacker

CPRG Limited

Springfield, OH 45503

United States

re: Working Together for a Better Web

Brady J. Frey — Tue, 13 Feb 2007 19:58:24 GMT

Congratulations Molly - your entrance into this team is the first time I've actually felt comforted by the future of Internet Explorer. You have exceptional talent, I hope to seem IE hold themselves to that standard in the future with your support!

Molly 正式加入微软 IE team

alexpeng — Thu, 15 Mar 2007 12:00:59 GMT

Web 标准的布道者 Molly 正式加入微软的 IE team，这里是她在 IEBlog 上发表的 announcement。节选部分如下：

The Web Standards Fluster Cuck

Alex Barnett blog — Tue, 14 Aug 2007 05:45:06 GMT

Clucking bell, Molly Holzshlag really has kicked the web standards beehive with a blog post expressing

IEBlog : Working Together for a Better Web

Dating — Sun, 01 Jun 2008 20:45:43 GMT

Hi Everyone! I’d like to introduce myself. I’m Molly E. Holzschlag , and I’m excited to announce that I’ve signed on with the Internet Explorer team on a contract basis to work on standards and interoperability issues. Many readers of the IEBlog will

IEBlog : Working Together for a Better Web

Weddings — Thu, 05 Jun 2008 20:33:02 GMT