Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

re: Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

Matt Asay — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 10:36:37 GMT

Jason, good points all. I only fault you for not reading far enough. Had you kept reading (the blog, not that particular entry), you would have stumbled across this post <http://blogs.cnet.com/8301-13505_1-9770425-16.html> (the importance of keeping data open) and this one <http://asay.blogspot.com/2006/05/future-of-lock-in.html> (Sharepoint as the center of data lock-in). I 100% believe that data should be open.

I also, incidentally, believe that software should be open, and think that this is especially critical in the Web 2.0 world. What good is my data if I don't have the software that it runs on? Let's say I leave Salesforce.com as a customer tomorrow (I'm not a customer, but follow the reasoning)...what am I going to do with that data, even if I can take it? Not much. But if I'm with SugarCRM (I *am* a customer), I have the source code (most of it, anyway) and the data.

SugarCRM is clearly a better option from the anti-lock-in angle.

So, anyway, I think we actually agree on this. You were just disagreeing with an early post of mine when I was arguing a different point entirely. But sophistry, thy name is.... :-)

re: Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

Chris Clark — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 14:09:15 GMT

Jason, just to comment on a couple of points here...

Open source projects with bad code...are still bad. Proprietary projects with bad code... Could I just highlight that the target of choice for hackers and spam emailers is always Microsoft software - 298 spam mails today and counting.

I am very pleased to see your views on avoiding data lock in - it was only last year my Microsoft Money application sent me a message saying upgrade or expire, so I didn't upgrade, and it expired taking my data with it.

Last point is Google uses pretty much universal open source software - now that is bad open source clearly.

Chris

Data Lock Up hypocrasy and Independent Implementation « CyberTech Rambler

Data Lock Up hypocrasy and Independent Implementation « CyberTech Rambler — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:46:21 GMT

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re: Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

jasonmatusow — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:26:03 GMT

Matt - part of what surprised me so much was the fact that I had not seen you take that angle before (in fact, as you say, quite the opposite). I think that there are many sides to the example you make of Salesforce and Sugar. Each company has to make decisions about where the value of their offering is, and how they both use and protect those assets. That is the vendor side of things. From the consumer it is a question of migration pathways in terms of the long-term access to the data. In the short-term, users may well choose other elements to value in their use of a solution.

Having the source code - marginal value at best for the overwhelming majority of people who ever use Sugar or any other solution. If I can export my data and drop it into another solution - you will have a hard time convincing me that it is more efficent (from a monetary perspective) to stand up, sustain, and modify (to meet future needs) my own implementation of Sugar than to take the short-term costs of migration to a new solution supported by a different firm.

I think we agree on the data thing. I don't think we do on the source code-openness-as-value-for-customers thing.

Jason

re: Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

jasonmatusow — Thu, 13 Sep 2007 21:59:11 GMT

Chris - thx for the comment - good stuff.

I would point out some things though in response. First of all, IMHO you are mistaken in your conclusion about spammers. Spammers are attracted to the broadest possible audience as their target. It has nothing to do with the technology. This is true for hackers too. The security game is almost entirely about the quality of the target - not the underlying technology. All of the metrics I have ever seen about attack patterns support this. The resulting vulnerabilities could well be argued pivots on the technology (we'll ignore how the IT staff deploys, puts in place policies, actually enables security features, responds to fixes being made available...).

As for Microsoft Money, I am sure there is an export feature from the database. My guess is there was a whole bunch of export options. Also, I would assume that other personal accounting packages have import features that would accept that data in a number of ways as well. Worth doing a search on TechNet about that one if you have data you can't get to.

No, Google does great work. I have no idea what your point is with the last comment. I hate to burst a bubble, but there are bad open source projects - just like there are bad software development projects in all models. My real point was about the value of software and what it takes in terms of investment to make good software no matter how it is developed.

Thx

Jason

re: Locked-Up Data for Web 2.0?

Ben Langhinrichs — Tue, 25 Sep 2007 22:19:58 GMT

Jason - I have to agree with you on this. Companies want their data, and they HATE data lock in. The key for most companies is just what you describe, the ability take their data with them and use it in another application - not having the source of the software. I have seldom seen a company that would have a clue what to do with the source code, but they all know what to do with their data. - Ben