The Size Of Things

re: The Size Of Things

Adrian — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:42:35 GMT

Overall, the Ribbon does seem to help restore the balance between UI and document. If you use Outlook, PowerPoint, and Excel, most of your documents are landscape, like the shape of most screens, so it makes a lot of sense.

But if Word is all you use, most of your documents are portrait, and monitors are getting wider faster than they're getting taller. Given that, I would have loved it if the ribbon were a vertical strip, which would use up a lot of dead space and restore vertical space which always seems to be at a premium. And if you run maximized, it could take advantage of Fitz's Law (sp?).

Monitors have gotten so big now, that I wonder if it's really fair to design for the monitor's size on the assumption that people will run maximized. If the Office apps didn't open maximized by default, how many people would maximize them?

16x9

Bertrand — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:52:23 GMT

Great post Jensen! Very interesting as usual! I'm curious what your opinion is about 16x9 screens is, because I believe more and more people use 16x9 screens, a trend which could increase with the sidebar which comes with Vista and which will be better viewed I guess on a 16x9 screen. So, if the ribbon takes a little more vertical space, isn't it going to impact more people who have a 16x9 screen?

Thanks!

re: The Size Of Things

Jonas — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 18:54:16 GMT

I'm liking the UI changes so far, and looking forward to trying them out.

I do have one concern, voiced here before but not yet answered. Is it at all possible to have the ribbon use a vertical orientation?

Imo this is a pretty relevant consideration - a regular screen is wider than tall, the normal orientation of a document is "portrait" and widescreen monitors are spreading. Having the option of a vertical ribbon on the side of your screen makes a lot of sense, but having seen nothing but horizontal ribbons I assume it is for some reason not possible.

re: The Size Of Things

Suzanne S. Barnhill — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:32:40 GMT

As someone who uses the horizontal ruler constantly (never use the vertical ruler at all, but then I rarely see it since I work mostly in Normal view), I will no doubt want to keep it switched on in Word 2007. Let's hope this version can do a better job of that than Word 2003, where it is constantly disappearing despite my best efforts.

re: The Size Of Things

Michael J — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:22:30 GMT

Yes, yes, yes, make ribbon and other stuff stretched along vertically, not horisontally.

On a non-relevant note, I hope that search/replace/paste will be much better. In current versions (since Word 6 or even earlier) the search function is horrible. Can you make it as simple as in Firefox? Paste: why should I do so many movements just to paste say from a browser as plain text? I would like to be able to define clipboard patterns, like "always paste as plain text if copied from browser."

Also, sometime after Word6 or Word95 you changed how style of font/paragraph is changed when you hit backspace or delete, and since then working with Word is constant pain.

re: The Size Of Things

foo-bar — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:30:29 GMT

I agree with the comments above regarding the possibility of a vertical ribbon. Too many screens these days are HDTV inspired (1280x720 or similar proportions), giving less vertical space than yesterday's 1024x768 monitors.

re: The Size Of Things

Mollly C — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:02:07 GMT

foo-bar, I think most "wide" 1280 computer monitors (desktop and notebook screens) are actually larger than 19x9, with usual resolutions of 1280x768, 1280x800, and 1280x850, which gives more space than yesterday's 1024x768.

For example:
http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=337399&pfp=BROWSE

re: The Size Of Things

Lothar Bloath — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:19:14 GMT

Vertical space in Word is critical, as noted above. I can only assume that the issue didn't come up in usability testing. Were usability users asked what they wanted in a free-form way, or did you just bounce them against the options you guys thought of on your own? I think the posts about usability testing I've read here have suggested the latter, but maybe its there and I just forgot it.

And like that guy said above -- why doesn't F3 work in Word 2003? It works in Notepad.

Of course, F3 doesn't work in IE, either (in IE, F3 gives you a dementedly inappropriate practical-joke prompt to "buy a book online". No, I'm not making this up, that's really what it does).

Here's a thought: What Microsoft ought to do is define a common set of commands that occur in all or most applications. "Copy", for example, is very common. "Search" is common. "Search Again" is common. So what you'd do is then define standard behavior for these commands, and standard ways to invoke them. Maybe for copy, you could have Ctrl+C or something like that, or maybe Ctrl+F for "Search", Ctrl+H for search-and-destroy^Wreplace, and maybe something like F3 for "Search Again". Just spitballing off the top of my head here, sort of brainstorming, you know. You could call it, oh, "user interface guidelines" or words to that effect.

I know this all sounds like a crazy, impractical dream, but just bear with me, okay?

You could even define standard UI widgets, like buttons and edit boxes, which behave in standard ways, and you could put them in libraries that you can share among different applications. Say, you've got a single-line edit box: You could have one single-line edit for everybody, with the same keyboard commands and the same pop-up menu when you right-click inside the box. Even some dialogs are common between different applications: "Open File", for example. You could even use the shared controls for those: Wouldn't it be neat if a user could *know* that when he right-clicks in a single-line edit or an editable combo box, that he'll get a context menu? Imagine if a user could *rely* on an assumption like that, if he could safely assume that in all MS products, the same UI widget will behave consistently, because it would actually be the same widget being re-used! There's a sort of futuristic concept here called "code re-use", but I don't want to get too technical, so I'll confine myself to the user experience. You could apply the same consistent-UI concepts to the minimize/maximize/restore/exit buttons on the titlebar.

Wouldn't that be a blast? Wouldn't it be cool if UI behavior were made consistent and predictable with advanced, revolutionary ideas like "user interface guidelines", and "common controls", and "common dialogs"?

What? What's that you say? You've had these things for fifteen years or more already? Well then why does Office not [curse word was here] USE THEM?

re: The Size Of Things

Gabe — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 23:56:55 GMT

Adrian: Fitz's law says that the fastest parts of the screen to reach are the edges and the corners. This was true 20 years ago when your mouse never had to move more than 500 pixels to hit the edge of the screen.

However, accessing the edge of today's large screens often requires picking up the mouse and recentering it on the mouse pad. In fact, just "throwing" the mouse into the corner to reach a button on a maximized app may be a difficult operation if you're one of the many users with multiple monitors, because odds are the mouse cursor will leave the screen you're looking at and you'll have to find it on the other monitor to figure out where it went.

re: The Size Of Things

Aaron M. Hall — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:24:00 GMT

Lothar,

I hope that Jensen removes your post for your inability to communicate in a rational manner and avoid using profanity.

F3 in IE brings up the "Search Pane" which I suppose would be a book sale thing on a spyware ridden machine or one in which you've customized your search engine. F3, indeed, does not bring up search... but then again, CTRL-F(ind, perhaps?) does and always has worked perfectly well... and HOLY COW--- there's a FIND NEXT button! Wow! I will grant you the one comment about it being nice to have CTRL-F or F3 perform a "Find Next"... that actually is a good idea.

But if F3 is the only complaint you have that causes you to go so far off topic from Jensen's blog entry, then I suppose it's fair to say that the entire Office team is doing a FANTASTIC JOB!

Fantastic?

Wayne B — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 00:53:56 GMT

They put us through Office 2003...and those horrible task panes (worse than clippy!).

Office makes me want to stab my eyeballs out, so a little cursing is probably OK.

re: The Size Of Things

Christianj — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 01:52:16 GMT

A while ago you said that the default tolbars in pre-2007 were often added too, and that it wasnt uncommon to see people with 4-5 extra toolbars open.

Certainly my own observations would agree with this, I personally close off un-needed toolbars as I know how and where to find them, so I can chop and change as required. Case in point is that I see a helpdesk call last week where someone lost the toolbar with send/recieve in Outlook 2003... The notes say that the user blamed the software as it 'disappeared' on him... He does need some training on Office though, I just hope that client gives it too him (He frustrates himself regularly with it).

But, back on track, I certainly do remember you saying that even though there is only a small difference in screen realestate in the OOBE on both of them, that quite often you get MUCH less with 2003 and below due to extra toolbars, Ive seen some people with 4 small toolbars docked below eachother in word... 2 seconds of moving them and they suddenly have allot more room, and they really had no idea you could do that...

re: The Size Of Things

John Rudy — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 02:24:54 GMT

Jensen,

A stupid, quick question: What about those of us who loathe running maximized? I just bought one of the above-mentioned widescreen monitors (mine is actually 16:10 -- 1440x960), and the primary reason is so that I don't have to maximize anything. (Well, MAYBE Visual Studio. But certainly not "standard" document-centric apps like the Office suite.)

Is there any reliable usability/statistical data on just how many of us weirdos there are out there? I imagine that, by and large, people maximize -- I'm sure I'm in the minority. But are we a significant enough population to warrant any "extra" steps on the part of the Office team?

(PS: I like the new UI, and think the Ribbon's great! I'm also glad it's a "flat tax," because that already answers most of my question -- no more horizontal UI need be taken ... )

re: The Size Of Things

Mark Sowul — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 02:38:17 GMT

Lothar might have some issues with diplomacy but he's absolutely right about consistency (both in keyboard shortcuts, and UI). It's very frustrating when apps don't use standard keyboard shortcuts. My favorite was ctrl-tab having to become ctrl-f6 or something in Word.

re: The Size Of Things

gary keramidas — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 06:44:06 GMT

just my opinion, but i'd like to see the date stamp at the top so i don't have to scroll down to see when it was posted.

just my opinion

re: The Size Of Things

Aaron M. Hall — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 06:59:45 GMT

@John Rudy-- I use Word docs un-maximized from time to time for document manipulation (drag-and-drop), but very rarely. I run at 1280*1024. I have been playing with a copy of the beta for the last few days... I've gotta say, even on a 1024*768 resolution, and let's face it... for most of us it's that 768 number that matters to most of us... it's not so bad. I am still able to pull up a doc and view it with ease and no more scrolling than I would otherwise experience. I certainly don't think 1-2 lines of text is going to kill me, and I spend a LOT of time in documents.

@Mike Sowul-- I've been using Windows a long time... since 3.0, not sure about you, so can't say about that... but I've been using CTRL-F since the beginning, and F3 came quite a bit later. I'm not saying that it couldn't be "corrected" in some way... but this isn't the blog post for that. Last I saw, we were talking about screen real-estate. There were a couple of recent keyboard shortcut entries that perhaps the two of you should follow up on first. :)

re: The Size Of Things

Jon Peltier — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:04:25 GMT

But What About... Customization?

Customization is not all about size. If I need to see more of my document I can adjust fonts, row/line heights, and window zooms.

I know your usage studies indicate that only 2% of users modify their toolbars. As a demonstration of the relevance of this statistic, I refer to your example of those business experts on "the Apprentice", who are by no means those "Experts, of course, [who]know how to manage all of the UI widgets on the screen".

I suppose the usage numbers are biased away from those experts, and because of this, the ability of these experts to customize their interface has been severely compromized in Office 2007. Several comments bring up vertically oriented UI elements, but only task panes remotely resemble this; the ribbon cannot be dragged to the sides of the window (although the Windows taskbar can be, allowing another 1-2 lines/rows to be visible, and in fact it can be set not to always sit in the way). In fact, my customized Word 2003 interface has toolbars aligned along the sides of the screen, covering up only unused margins or the background beyond the document. Not possible in the new interface.

The fact that the Ribbon doesn't degrade with time also means the aforementioned experts cannot improve it with time.

re: The Size Of Things

Robert Moir — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:15:58 GMT

"A stupid, quick question: What about those of us who loathe running maximized? I just bought one of the above-mentioned widescreen monitors (mine is actually 16:10 -- 1440x960), and the primary reason is so that I don't have to maximize anything. (Well, MAYBE Visual Studio. But certainly not "standard" document-centric apps like the Office suite.) "

- I never run maximised unless I'm doing a demo of one particular thing.

I guess that the 2007 interface still works the same way for me when compared to 2003 as it would maximised. Where Jensen talks about a 1024x768 screen here he could be talking about a window of that size on my 1280x1024 screen just as easily.

re: The Size Of Things

sraring29 — Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:59:19 GMT

I'm curious as to how one determines whether or not a ruler is being used. I mean, I don't click on the vertical ruler, but I look at it to see how far down the page I am (particularly useful if I can't see the bottom of the page yet). Without actual clicks, can you determine that it's being used or not? And, how do people set non-half-inch tab stops without the horizontal ruler? I know there's a "Format tabs" dialog, but that's a lot harder than just clicking on the ruler.

re: The Size Of Things

Nabeel — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:04:49 GMT

What about someone whos using this much screenspace (as I am):

http://img135.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ss5tc.jpg

Can you resize the ribbon to take up that room?
In visual studio, I've done the same thing, only one toolbar and that's it. I have having less room to work with than i can.

re: The Size Of Things

Robert Moir — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:00:10 GMT

Nabeel,
you're using 3 rows of toolbars (2 at top, 1 at bottom) plus the menu.

I think to use that much space in Office 2007, looking at my copy here, you'd have to find a way to make the ribbon *larger*

re: The Size Of Things

Mat Hall — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 13:09:05 GMT

I run at a ludicrous resolution (1920x1440) and as a result I can arrange my toolbars horizontally rather than stacking them up. Here's a downsampled version (and yes, I really *do* work with it like that -- call me odd, but I like it) --

http://www.dashslot.co.uk/uploads/img444606e3b565b.jpg

I imagine that as the ribbon seems to be designed for more "normal" resolutions I'm going to end up with quite a lot of wasted space at the top right? Given the large area of my monitor it's not really a pressing issue, but I'd prefer an option to have the ribbon tabs arrange their items horizontally, not have giant icons (I *know* what columns are -- I don't need a humungous picture of them to work it out, thanks), etc., but as I guess that not being the lowest common denominator I'm going to be plum out of luck? (And I also hope that the ribbon doesn't scale to fit the width of the window and grow vertically as a consequence.)

At the moment I can work in 2-page view and have everything perfectly readable (the actual width of a page on screen is slightly wider than "Fit to width" on a 1280x1024 monitor), so anything that might reduce the usable height of the Word window would be a disappointment. I know this is progress and all, and many of the 2007 features are something I look forward to, but I've spent 10+ years with the UI like it is (and the past six years with it *EXACTLY* as it is in that screenshot) and 99.9% of the things I do are so deeply ingrained that I can almost click on a toolbar button without looking at the screen -- it's bound to be too late, but I'd *dearly* love a "classic mode" interface. (Presumably Word can still be embedded as a COM object, and I imagine that the ribbon, etc., can be hidden, so if worst comes to worst I may have to knock up a container for it so I can have my toolbars back. :)

re: The Size Of Things

Nabeel — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:41:12 GMT

Robert,
That's interesting, because I've played with the beta and it seems like there far *less* real estate available.
My drawing toolbar on the bottom is usually off.
The ribbon at my resolution (1400x1050) takes up alot more room than those 2 toolbars at the top do (I'm on a laptop)
The page would begin almost in the middle of the screen.

Office 12 Watch » Size Does Matter

Office 12 Watch » Size Does Matter — Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:49:29 GMT

PingBack from http://www.office12watch.com/size-does-matter/

re: The Size Of Things

forced sex movies — Mon, 12 Jun 2006 00:21:05 GMT

Greatings to you. Can you help me to find any more info?

<a href=http://www.maxpages.com/rapes/>forced sex movies</a>

re: The Size Of Things

Mike — Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:05:21 GMT

Jensen: Why has no one questioned the accuracy of the Customer Experience Improvement Program data? I've asked this repeatedly, and still have not heard an answer, about collecting data from only those people who do not customize Office. I'm surprised even 2% of your data indicates users want to customize Office, since you've essentially eliminated all those users in your sample. Turning off the ribbon is not customization. The QAT is barely customization. If the new UI is supposed to be results oriented, who's results is it oriented towards? Are my results the same as everyone else's? Hardly - my needs change (as I work at a help desk, and assist hundreds of users with varying Office needs) a half-dozen times during the day. I question the size of both icons and text - and the complete lack of customization - as an insult to accessibility. I know people who, while not blind, will likely be unable to readily view the ribbon, and there's no option to use just text labels, increase the size of the icons, or increase the font size of the labels. While I like the concept of the ribbon's organization, why must I use exactly the same features, in exactly the same order, without the ability to move, remove or add any of the features that I use (or don't use) most frequently? Except for RibbonX (requiring expensive tools and specialized programming skills), no mention is made of why users are completely prohibitted from modifying the ribbon to best suit their needs, as opposed to the needs of 'user zero.' That the ability to customize your environment is seen as an inconvenience to some does not mean everyone else should be forced to use only one set of predetermined tools. PLEASE find a way to include ready Ribbon customization prior to release. Maximizing screen space is a laudible goal - but so is getting work done, and the Ribbon is sorely lacking because I have to work around it, rather than modify it so it can work for me.

Mike

Let's Talk About Customization

Jensen Harris: An Office User Interface Blog — Tue, 27 Jun 2006 11:40:51 GMT

A topic that has come up frequently in our private beta newsgroups as well as here in blog comments from...

alexking.org: Blog > Around the web

alexking.org: Blog > Around the web — Sun, 02 Jul 2006 16:59:47 GMT

PingBack from http://www.alexking.org/blog/2006/06/25/around-the-web/

Updated Office 2007 ‘NW corner’ UI at istartedsomething

Updated Office 2007 ‘NW corner’ UI at istartedsomething — Thu, 13 Jul 2006 05:12:56 GMT

PingBack from http://www.istartedsomething.com/20060712/updated-office-2007-nw-corner-ui/

Tech Write Tips » Best Practice: Screen Estate

Tech Write Tips » Best Practice: Screen Estate — Fri, 18 Aug 2006 15:55:30 GMT

PingBack from http://techwritetips.wordpress.com/2006/08/18/best-practice-screen-estate/

Erick Sasse » Blog Archive » Ótimo artigo sobre a nova interface do Office 2007

Wed, 20 Sep 2006 06:01:26 GMT

PingBack from http://www.ericksasse.com.br/?p=551

?-????? - ???? ?? ??????????? » ???? 2007 - ????????? ?? ??????????

?-????? - ???? ?? ??????????? » ???? 2007 - ????????? ?? ?????????? — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:59:24 GMT

PingBack from http://www.e-lesno.com/blog/office2007_kordela/

Famous Birthdays » Blog Archive » Jensen Harris: An Office User Interface Blog : Giving You Fitts

Sun, 06 Jan 2008 07:21:37 GMT

PingBack from http://birthdays.247blogging.info/?p=4210

The Office 2007 UI Bible | MS Tech News

The Office 2007 UI Bible | MS Tech News — Tue, 28 Oct 2008 01:27:18 GMT

PingBack from http://mstechnews.info/2008/10/the-office-2007-ui-bible/

Multifunktionsleiste verschieben | hilpers

Multifunktionsleiste verschieben | hilpers — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 18:05:52 GMT

PingBack from http://www.hilpers.com/722987-multifunktionsleiste-verschieben

OT'ish: Microsoft Office beta download | hilpers

OT'ish: Microsoft Office beta download | hilpers — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:08:51 GMT

PingBack from http://www.hilpers.org/48008-otish-microsoft-office-beta-download

Is Microsoft's business model done? - Xtreme CPU

Is Microsoft's business model done? - Xtreme CPU — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:15:41 GMT

PingBack from http://forum.xcpus.com/financial-chat/16180-microsofts-business-model-done.html#post259708

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Wood TV Stand

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Wood TV Stand — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:52:07 GMT

PingBack from http://woodtvstand.info/story.php?id=11253

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Patio Chairs

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Patio Chairs — Mon, 01 Jun 2009 22:00:03 GMT

PingBack from http://patiochairsite.info/story.php?id=1571

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Best Eye Cream

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | Best Eye Cream — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 22:54:45 GMT

PingBack from http://besteyecreamsite.info/story.php?id=1572

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio set

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio set — Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:04:32 GMT

PingBack from http://patiosetsite.info/story.php?id=14

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio set

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio set — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 05:02:01 GMT

PingBack from http://patiosetsite.info/story.php?id=93

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio umbrella

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio umbrella — Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:04:54 GMT

PingBack from http://patioumbrellasource.info/story.php?id=1771

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | home lighting

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | home lighting — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:46:54 GMT

PingBack from http://homelightingconcept.info/story.php?id=2671

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | adirondack chairs

Fri, 19 Jun 2009 12:21:19 GMT

PingBack from http://adirondackchairshub.info/story.php?id=406

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio cushions

Jensen Harris An Office User Interface Blog The Size Of Things | patio cushions — Fri, 19 Jun 2009 13:06:08 GMT

PingBack from http://patiocushionsource.info/story.php?id=669