Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Some Guy — Thu, 13 Oct 2005 06:20:53 GMT

Looks like you didn't understand my complaint, either. I did not say that your half-baked "view model" notion was the same as the ST-80 concept of a controller.

You're reinventing the wheel, and you're still at the three-sided polygon stage. Maybe you can make it good enough for people who are used to tolerating abortions like C++ and Java if you add a dozen more sides or so. Good luck with that.

Newsflash! MS announces wheel! ("Roundness" feature deferred from longhorn)

Oh, and to correct your misunderstandings of Cocoa, try picking up Aaron Hillegass's excellent book if you're unable to figure it out from Apple's documentation.

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Alan Stevens — Thu, 13 Oct 2005 15:38:40 GMT

Wouldn't a view-controller be the same as Fowler's presenter object in model view presenter?

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Frank Hileman — Thu, 13 Oct 2005 18:26:40 GMT

My recollection from the eighties is that the Controller was commonly believed not only to map input, but to determine how that input affected the model. So it might have state machines as well. Essentially it handled user interaction.

This was after the original Smalltalk but during the diffusion of Parc ideas into many other graphics systems.

I believe this is still the best definition, as far as code organization, if you want to go that route.

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Dirk Rombauts — Fri, 14 Oct 2005 21:24:28 GMT

I think that maybe an example of the Model/View/ModelView pattern would make things clearer. Allthough I am the first to admit that it is not easy to provide a simple example for a non-trivial pattern.

Dirk

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Another dude — Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:00:24 GMT

Seems to me that everyone has their own implementation of Model/View/Controller.

John, let's see an actual example, as Dirk here suggests. I think it must really be simple to provide an example. If not, you ain't got a real pattern here.

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Actual dude — Sun, 16 Oct 2005 03:05:10 GMT

Oh and by the way. As I see it, even your different references to Cocoa, Apple, SmallTalk and you 'very own' MVVC are all about the same thing: Model/View/Control, described from different perspectives.

Try finding the pattern in all of these patterns. ;)

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

JohnGossman — Sun, 16 Oct 2005 20:07:03 GMT

I have always referred to MVVM as a variant or refinement of MVC, with specific reliance on data-binding.

As these things tend to go, work has gotten busy. I need to post more about data-binding and commands, then give an example. I just haven't had time.

re: Confusion over definition of Controller in MVC

Dirk — Fri, 21 Oct 2005 10:34:54 GMT

Take whatever time you need to provide us with a good example. If you need another week, then I'll wait another week. If you need another month, then I'll wait another month. As long as the example has the potential to spark another intense week ;-)