Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Bob — Tue, 18 Oct 2005 17:41:04 GMT

Are there plans to deploy the WinSxS Visual Studio 8.0 libraries as an optional Windows Update?

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

martynl — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 01:12:53 GMT

Nope, we don't have plans to do that. Application authors should redistribute the VC8 libraries their application needs as part of their application. [This is the same policy we've had for several versions -- only the VC6 msvcrt.dll was part of Windows].

Martyn

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Mike — Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:59:25 GMT

Here's what I worry about: downlevel DLL Hell. The recommended approach is to install 8.0 DLLs in system32 on Windows 2000. Now that those libs are not under file protection (unlike MFC42.DLL and MSVCRT.DLL which is protected in Win2K), any app can come around and overwrite, or worse, uninstall it, breaking your app.

What is the recommended solution for this?

Should we have two levels, i.e. an app copy of these DLLs and a system32 copy of these DLLs and have a fallback to the app copy?

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

martynl — Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:33:14 GMT

Yep, we worry about DLL hell too. That was another of the key motivators behind our move to fusion.

But, as you note, it doesn't help our story on Windows 2000 or Windows 98.

If you followed our recommendations in VC7 (and installed your DLLs local to your application), you were somewhat better protected. But we have no way to perform emergency servicing on those DLLs.

So for these older platforms, we reverted back to the policy of installation in system32.

On these older OSes, it definitely is possible for a rogue application to uninstall msvcr80.dll or to replace a newer version with an older version. But if the application uses our MSMs for central install (which is the only setup model we license and support), then the install will be performed correctly.

I wouldn't recommend having a 'backup' copy in your application directory, since this can't even mitigate the problem of installation of an older verison in the central location. With various loading rules in effect, it could even cause two copies of the DLL to be loaded (in unusual cases).

Your best mitigation against people whose setups break the rules is to support the MSI repair functionality and harden your application to be able to fix itself when others break it.

Martyn

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Anonymous Coward — Mon, 31 Oct 2005 21:07:20 GMT

The problem is, not everybody wants to use MSI. Merge modules don't help if you use InnoSetup, NSIS, or simple XCOPY. There is no documented API for adding an assembly to WinSxS.

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Matt Godbolt — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:00:36 GMT

I have to agree with the Anonymous Coward - I'm looking at moving our products to being built in VC8, and we use NSIS for our installations. Currently I can't see any way of getting the CRT libraries redistributed short of reverse engineering the MSI way of installing - if I place the CRT DLLs in the app path various exceptions about 'you must use the new way' are thrown!

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Mike — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 20:27:23 GMT

To Matt and AC: I understand the pain with MSI - we don't even use it unless necessary. The best way to deal with this would be to use the merge modules to great a .MSI file which you can then launch silently from your non MSI based install. All supported platforms will have the necessary Windows Installer service to do this (I believe). A way to create this standalone MSI quickly and easily was found at this URL:
http://blogs.msdn.com/nikolad/archive/2005/09/02/460368.aspx

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

martynl — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:24:13 GMT

There is no need to use MSI to use this solution. We provide two non-MSI solutions.

First, the product includes an EXE installer that installs everything to WinSxS. So you can use that if you prefer. You can find that here on your install:

X:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\SDK\v2.0\BootStrapper\Packages\vcredist_x86

However, if you want to install-applocal, you should make sure that your application has a manifest, and then copy the whole of this folder into your EXE directory:

X:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 8\VC\redist\x86\Microsoft.VC80.CRT

and other folders if you use more than the CRT. Make sure you include the manifest.

Martyn Lovell
Development Lead
Visual C++ Libraries
http://blogs.msdn.com/martynl

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Mike — Wed, 02 Nov 2005 21:35:18 GMT

Martyn,

Thanks for that - I guess I should read the help. There is a great help topic here:

[URL]ms-help://MS.VSCC.v80/MS.MSDN.v80/MS.VisualStudio.v80.en/dv_vccore/html/8d1a994b-9986-4171-9c0b-56d24808fd1f.htm[/URL]

and

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Graham Harwood — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 18:32:53 GMT

Martyn,
We've encountered a difference in the RTM msm's from the Beta2 in that an extra custom action SxsInstallCA has appeared but is not in the binary table. This causes msi's built with the release vc80_crt to fail on the missing custom action on Windows 2000 installs.
Did I miss something? Installing the Dot Net framework fixes it but this can't be a pre-requisite can it?

Graham

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Graham Harwood — Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:43:53 GMT

re. SxsInstallCA above:

I think I might have answered my question. The custom action is provided in MSI Version 3.1.

Maybe someone can point me to where this change/requirement was documented as I didn't see it.

/Graham

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Yuhong Bao — Fri, 25 Nov 2005 04:34:26 GMT

Why you kept the servicing relationship for DLLs the same as static libraries?

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Yuhong Bao — Fri, 25 Nov 2005 04:42:17 GMT

The same thing would happen if the software was built using Visual C++ 5.0 or 4.2. What happens if the bug was specfic to the Windows 2000 or later version of the DLLs? And why does Windows XP still use msvcrt.dll in system components?

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Thomas Olsson — Mon, 12 Dec 2005 15:59:30 GMT

We ran into two problems here:
1) Windows Installer 3.x is needed (it seems like XP SP2 is enough and that is Windows Installer 3.0 and not 3.1?) Did anyone find where this new requirement is documented.

2) This is a major problem: The new merge modules for CRT, ATL80 etc. prevents Per User installations. They require Per Machine installations. This is a major problem for us.

re: Why does VC8 install libraries to WinSxS?

Yuhong Bao — Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:22:24 GMT

You mentioned SQL Slammer.
Microsoft Update didn't exist at this time, but if it existed and supported MSDE then, the security update could have been published thru that.

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