Tasks and Time Management in Outlook

This is what I figured in one of my comments on a previous post. You folks spend so much time/effort/money on "features" yet there's been no real improvement in Outlook's primary underlying objects (e.g. tasks) since it was first released.

Ironically, ths post, instead of showing how Outlook can be efficiently used to do personal project/task management, shows just how much one has to kludge the system to accomplish what most people woul assume to be cor functionality.

There's lots of nice looking improvments coming in Outlook 12. Too bad some of the effort wasn't focused on getting the core right (or at least better).

Maybe 13's the lucky number.

Melissa:

This is a bit off topic, as it is regarding a previous post, but I was wondering if the new flagging behavior you mentioned for emails (focused on when to answer it - today, in 2 days, in 1 week, etc.) would be available for messages in IMAP email accounts, or whether it'd be available only for exchange accounts?

Everyone disappointed in Outlook 12 task management take heart. It looks like the Mozilla Thunderbird developers are getting it: "Some very clear user requirements have emerged for task management:
* Hierarchical task relationships, including dependencies "
http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Lightning:Task_management

It looks like open source folks may yet again fill a gap and gain some market share as a result. There is nothing like a healthy competition.

Interesting hack to make categories behave as tags. I really want relational tagging in Outlook, so I can sort/slice/dice my tasks, projects anyway I want.
http://sippey.typepad.com/filtered/2005/12/simple_task_ent.html

I am NOT going to use MS Project to manage personal projects, it is way overkill. I don't need GANTT charts to organize my basement. I want less software not more!

In addition to Thunderbird development Chandler finally reached the 0.6 release stage. They don't have tasks implemented yet but they really get it from their description!

http://chandler.osafoundation.org/1.0_vision.php#Information_Processing

It's as much about information management as anything. The application that pulls this all together gets me in a heartbeat, regardless of the ramp up time cost.

I've been trying to work around the whole sub-task thing and the lack of a Project object in Outlook 12 -- I'm not having any real luck.

I tried using a Contacts folder, treating each contact as a project instead. But then there's no way to bubble up status information from the associated tasks to the project object.

I worked for a while on just using categories and folders -- oy... Way more overhead than I think it's going to be worth.

I do like how you can put the task folders into groups, though. It's nice that you can use the groups for other parts of Outlook too. But when I tried setting up email/tasks/journal/etc with all the same groups and folder names and it's not possible. Groups aren't available for eemail folders (why doesn't email use the same navigation structure?). And on the Tasks page, the Tasks folder can't actually be renamed?

So I gave it more of a shot, and I'm still disappointed. Either it's going to need more/better functionality in Outlook, or we're going to need more help to be able to arrange the real world work into the current more-limited structure.

Himanshu, you maybe onto something, although I cannot belive Microsot would do such a cheap shot.
Melissa, can you please illuminate all of us here as to the reasons for not implementing sub tasks? There is lots of decent software with good task management: My Life Organized, Listpro, Bonsai, ShadowPlan, etc. They have Palm/Pocket PC components and at times even exchange tasks with Outlook. In comparison to Microsoft, they are garage operations obiously. How is it possible that Microsoft in all its might could not in all these years add a simple task outlining functionality to Outlook?
Or did somebody just decide it is not important. But how could that be if you mention GTD and Franklin Covey as points of reference? Both these and any other common sense approaches to taks management require goals/projects/task linking.
This is simply mind boggling, I am looking forward to someone from the Outlook team respond to that.

I think a lot of progress has been made with Tasks, so applause to the whole Outlook team.

But...let's not miss the boat (once again)!
With the research references cited (Covey, GTD, etc) clearly MS has not really talked to users and is ignoring the research.

We use MS Project and love it -- for PROJECTS.
But my daily life is not a project, it is a string of a few inter-related tasks with some sense of inter-dependency or priority. I need some way to manage that in Outlook. MS Project is wholly inappropriate for this - like trying to hang a picture nail with a sledgehammer. I'd recommend dropping this suggestion for fear of damaging your credibility.
The fact that it is 2006 and I still can't track a major task with a few dependent tasks makes me laugh. I'm still forced to do the thinking when Outlook should be doing it for me.

Have we really just spent 3 years waiting for the next version of Outlook to get all these other improvements but miss out on the basics?

Outlook is about being informed and productive, working with teams, sharing information, prioritizing. Everything in my life centers around the mountainous list of tasks that have to get done. But here it falls short of the mark - way short.

MS should go back to the drawing board and get tasks right. I have to agree with all the other posts here that we've made nominal progress for what should be quite simple.

I'm incredibly disappointed on this one front.

I totally agree with the other people here: subtask functionally is a prerequisite for implementing e.g. a trusted system based on GTD principles. I'm quite disappointed as well... :-(

I use great tool MyLife Organized to add subtasks to my Outlook tasks:
http://www.mylifeorganized.net

Al

I was extremely disappointed to learn of the lack of sub-tasks in Outlook 12 and it is the main reason I don't use it now for overall task management. Project is no substitute for what should be in Outlook task mgmt.

And on another note - would it be *so* difficult to have a prioritizing/display algorithm that when sorted by due date, puts tasks without due dates at the TOP, followed by due soonest, ending in due latest? Can I be the only person in the world that has items who's due date is not specific, but rather ASAP? I want to see these followed by 'what's coming next', and YOU CAN'T DO THIS IN OUTLOOK! (sorry).

Also, using an algorithm, it would be nice (read: invaluable) to be able to sort a task list and still be able to drag/drop to re-order the tasks and have that new order kept as the sort order for that view. Without re-digging this all up, the way it works now is as soon as you change a view or pick one that has a sort or a group-by, you CANNOT drag/drop to set the order. Hello - Microsoft employs smart programmers, and being one, there are several ways to do this behind the scenes. I want to filter tasks based on a particular category, etc. and still drag them around to customize the order and have it retained.

I realize it's probably way too late for this, but I sent this feedback many many months ago, and it would appear these features are very much a minority, which I find hard to believe for those that have tried to use tasks regularly - as the comments in this post indicate.

Anyway, here's hoping someone is actually listening...

Buy a Macintosh.  At least Apple listens to their customers.

So from a GTD stand point I just want to say that grouping tasks according to the larger outcome is just a waste of time. Instead having a grouping in the context in which the task *can* be accomplished. This was a critical difference for me and totally created a whole productivity gain. I Stopped trying to keep my tasks associated with larger outcomes.

For me it would be a mistake to even grace my task list with larger outcomes. I use OneNote for that and I can label them and see and manage the list inside OneNote12 with next actions being handled in outlook.

As David Allen says, "Nobody does a project, you do actions that lead up to a completed project" He also said in his Roadmap seminar that there is no need to associate the project at *all* with the task because you'll know. Just when you review make sure each project has at least one next action on the list in the appropriate context such as "call" "work" "home" or "errands" to me this is the most powerful thing I've changed in the last year to really boost my productivity.

When the organization becomes more complex it will break down. (not a direct quote but I have to attribute it to David Allen)

I've got the same problem when I tried to make Outlook my major task tracking tool - having no subtasks gives no flexibility. After some research and trial I've ended up with MyLifeOrganized where I can track everything now, plus can sync it with Outlook when needed.

You mention that Project tasks can be integrated into Outlook. I can't find anyway to do that, out of the box. I have both Office 12 and Project 12 installed and the only thing I can find, is Importing Outlook tasks into Project.

We use Project to plan our projects (but we do NOT use Project Server), but I personally use Outlook to manage my daily life. I'd love to be able to import tasks FROM Project into Outlook, not the other way around...

sorry state of affairs Bill Gates!!!!

I think it's wrong to say that Categories are a "work around" for sub-tasks.  Categories enable you to see all Tasks that relate ie belong to the same project, client, piece of work etc.  Hardly anyone uses Categories in Tasks - because they haven't worked out that that's where the power is.

Categories also already exist on PDAs (sub Tasks don't).  So if you've never Categorised your Tasks, made a Timeline view by Category to see what Tasks you have for each project, then do so before convincing yourselves that the function's missing.  It's just very well hidden and not called sub-Tasks.

What about releasing an addon to add this functionality. I would pay something extra if it means I can use Outlook for my daily task management needs.

Please add Subtasks!

I would agree that Tasks as currently implemented are confusing and hard to use. The average user calls up a Task form, is immediately stymied as to what all that *rap is, and never goes back.

That experience does NOT mean that Subtasks are a waste. It means the default Task form is too confusing. Simplify the basic task form, add in hierarchical tasks (i.e., Subtasks) -- and voila - folks will intuitively see the usefulness and begin to use this part of Outlook!
--
dgg

Wow.  We should all buy project servers so that we can utilize what should be very basic functionalities of Outlook?

Of course you were joking, hence the so-cute winky-smiley-face.  Lol.  Because when the program doesn't do the most basic thing that it's advertised as doing (organizing your life) it's so much easier to joke about it and to come up with really lame and overcomplicated workarounds.  Instead of, oh, say, fixing the program, or coming clean and saying "yeah, we don't really care about users who don't have the resources to drop significant change on our accessories, so we don't have any interest in making the program actually usable."

Ever think that maybe people THINK in subtasks, and the reason users say the tasks function is too complicated is because we all have to individually come up with bizarre, convoluted, and work-heavy band-aids?

Sorry Melissa, I think you put your foot in it with that.  Outlook would be a really useful and great program if it had subtasks.  It's too bad that Microsoft obviously has no interest in creating a really useful and great program for its small beans customers.

A very BIG part of why tasks should be hierarchical natively has to do with programmatical use.

Many of us like to build add-ins and extensions to make Outlook fit our personal way of doing things. All the approaches you described are, essentially, hacks to get around the fact that a TaskItem cannot contain sub TaskItems. Your hacks only work in the user interface and are not easily translated into custom code.

Another area that I really wish you would focus on fixing up is the Journal. Even the Small Business Accounting team has ignored the existence of the Journal, when they built their billable time entry feature. Ideally, I should be able to press a button on the toolbar of a Task (or call a method, in code) and convert the task or appointment into a journal entry, so I have an accurate record of what really happened versus what I planned on happening.

I'm very excited about the new category functionality. What you've done for categories, you should be doing for tasks and the journal!

(The *only* wish I still have for categories is that I could select ANY color for my categories.)

At about 8:00AM this morning, I decided to take a serious look at using Outlook to help me "get organized" with tasks relative to a business I am starting.  

By 8:20AM, after checking out the fields I could add, etc. to the task manager tracking screen, it occurred to me that I needed SOME way to add/create/manage subtasks, which Outlook 2003 didn't seem to offer.  

By 8:30AM I used Google to search the topic "create subtasks in Outlook".  After reading through this chain, I decided to NOT waste any time trying to "force fit" a solution using Outlook.  I agree with everyone else that subtasks are needed and I also agree that using Project for this would be serious OVERKILL!  

It is now about 8:45AM and I'm going to check out "myLife Organized".

Thanks to everyone for their comments.  You've saved me a great deal of time, energy, and frustration!

Microsoft:  Let me join the chorus of those asking you to rethink subtasks in Outlook.  They are needed, without any doubt!

Still time to get another cup of coffee before 9:00AM!!

It is a sad state of affairs when simple ideas are killed by myopic product design. As a research professor my research projects require many tasks and subtasks, I am glad I stumbled across this discussion. I will look into other options rather than spend fruitless efforts to "engineer" an Outlook solution OR spend a ton of money on MS project. Thanks for the sage advice. Frustrated researcher.

Follow-up.

My Life Organized didn't cut it. Tasks with email attachments and file attachments didn't "come along". <sigh>

Rho

I am so glad to have come across this blog and to see how many other people think subtask management in a PIM like outlook is fundamental. I am an ex Ecco user. For those of you who know Ecco I dont' need to say anymore. The conspiracy theorists believe that Microsoft Killed Ecco by making a deal with Netmanage (who had bought Ecco from its creators and mismanaged it! ) Anyway, one could manage everything in Ecco through outlining and tasks could be scheduled just like appointments (there was even a lightweight gantt chart view!). Too bad that Microsoft didn't at least learn the fundamentals of PIM from the best software ever created. There is still a strong Ecco following with a usergroup on Yahoo. In my neverending search for the holy grail (similar functionality), I have come across some new features in Franklin Covey's Plan Plus 4.0. It seems they have finally got it with their "Project" functionality. It obviously doesnt' have the depth of Ecco but it does allow one to quickly create projects and outline tasks. Once you create a project you can add your existing tasks in outlook and quickly outline them. I have been able to do what I used to do in Ecco by creating a Project called Business and another called Personal. I then outline all my business tasks on the corresponding tab and my personal ones in the Personal Project tab. The only thing I wished was that they had improved the weekly planning so that one could drag and drop tasks from the project view onto the calendar. I also would have liked tasks that were scheduled to be linked to their corresponding appointment, but I hear Outlook 12 may have this ( unless they kill this feature too). For those of you with Pocket PC"s it apparently works well with the new Pocket Informant (I haven't test this out yet but will be doing so in the near future).

As for the workarounds suggested at the begining of this blog : "You Must Be Kidding".

Microsoft obviously does not have a user group that does any kind of mini or multiple project management.  To take over three years to delivery OL 2007 and then not include vastly improved mini project and task management AND Scheduling is simply mind boggling.  The vast majority of the business users are locked into Exchange. Because of this Microsoft does not truly care about delivering real PIM and mini project functionality is BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE TO.  Company's will eventually have to go to this.  A very arrogant approach that will only be changed as Google, Mozilla, and LINUX continue to cut into Microsft's customer base.

I've been studying this problem over the weekend and come up with my own work around. My 'Projects' I've created as Categories in their own right, prefixed with a +. So now I have @Context categories and +Project categories. Each task can be labelled with two or more categories e.g. @Home, +Tidy Garage. The +Project categories act as parents to the sub-tasks within that project category.

Judy –

I am curious about your solution.  I assume the way you would get your tasks to appear neatly on the timeline view is by applying start and end dates.  However, if there is no way to link tasks to predecessors and dependants… the first date you miss, throws the whole timeline out of whack.  Am I wrong?

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Hello everyone, happy to see that so many of you are in this too.No one arround me seems to have any interest in their life management.Maximum is living from those little stickypapers:-) Currently I am depressed from outlook 2007.I used mylifeorganized.net and I loved it. Projects, shortcuts synchro with PDA etc. Now I have a new job and Outlook 2007 synchronized (anywhere anytime over GPRS) via companys exchange with companys HTC 710 windos mobile 6 smartphone = everything for free.I love the synchronization possibility so for already a week I am researching to find out how to use outlook for personal task management.After reading this post, I am so depressed that I am going buy for my own money mylifeorganized and synchronize it over cable, becuase outlooks tasks are BULLSHIT! THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR GREAT POSTS AND INFO!

You should consider using the Daily Task List as it shows you your tasks for the days in the view.

-Melissa

Hi Melissa,

Obviously, a lot of heated criticism about the lack of subtask functionality within Outlook 2007.

I myself have turned to OneNote, creating an hierarchial outline there, and linking next actions to Outlook 2007 to accomplish this.

However, it begs the question: can you or someone at Microsoft please respond to this multitude of posts requesting subtask functionality within Outlook 2007?

Obviously, there is a host of users who would like a lightweight project management functionality without having to pop for the full-feature MS Project.

Any response from you would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Calvin

I'll try and keep the feedback respectful, but this situation is very frustrating. I'm a big Outlook user, I use it to manage my life. Inbox, Tasks, Calendar, and Contacts are all stuffed with information.

I've used Project in the past, I'll use Project in the future, but it is so completely unsuitable for managing the day-to-day items I currently store in Outlook that even the suggestion I should be using it instead is ire raising. If someone at Microsoft cares to listen, I'd be more that willing to illustrate the  activities of my life, and hence entries in Outlook, that are SEVERELY under served by the current Tasks capabilities.

If many people don't use Tasks, then they can't be considered customers of the feature. I, however, am most definitely a customer of Tasks, yet you ignore my (and all the others here) advice in favor of non customers?!? Ignoring my customer and instead listening to the person in the next cubicle while developing a small business app doesn't make any sense, and neither does this.

Please listen to this very concerned and passionate customer, and add subtasks (among other things) as soon as possible. Thank you for your time.

Drew

Melissa,

Your Nov 12 post is very encouraging. I have been monitoring this site weekly in the hope that something positive would come out. Since you are listening and hear us, here is another suggestions:

provide facilities for subtasking such that it can be synchronized with ms project and sharepoint. Curious to see if anyone else has a similar need?

waiting patiently,

Peter T

Here a work around I use for subtask:

create a new contact folder and name it "projects" (or whatever you want). The create a new contact for each project you have. From that contact you can create as many tasks as you want. This way you can have as many tasks as you want associated with one projects. Customize the contact form for your needs and you are all set!

Michael Glotzkowski

Just in case someone considers, my +1 goes for introducing nested tasks / projects / hierarchy in Outlook. I am a MS Project user, but I don't want that for managing my agenda. I would not mind having a behind-the-scenes dependency on MS Project (even though other users possibly do not agree), since I am having it installed anyway. But I cannot stand handling my personal agenda from somewhere else but in the same program I use for e-mail, or installing an MS Project server at my PC (yup, I have campus license, but memory is a scarce resource) for a not-so-good integration.

Since tasks first appeared with Outlook, i have been mystified why there hasn't been a hierarchical approach made available.  I have tried a host of third-party options, but they just don't have the infrastructure of outlook and most of my tasks originate with email. MyLifeOrganized is close, but syncing is critical and the feature i use doesn't work now with Outlook 07 - MLO says it is a (convenient?) bug in Outlook.  I would be counted as the 98% that DON'T use outlook tasks, but if it had some basic functionality i would use it everyday, and so would my team.

If MS is thinking that Project would be cannibalized they are greatly mistaken.  Project is incredibly complicated.  An "intermediate" task manager might in fact be a useful stepping stone to Project (which IMHO it needs).

The post was first written in Jan 2006, now two+ years later in May 2008.  What has been done to address the lack of subtasks?  Care for an update?

I thought it might be time to move back using Outlook again; and by doing a search on google and saw this page with more than a handful of negative comments... guess not if there isn't subtasks functionality.

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