Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Are Software Developers Really Engineers? - Click & Solve

Are Software Developers Really Engineers? - Click & Solve — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 12:29:18 GMT

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re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Dan — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:48:10 GMT

There are software engineers and there are software developers (programmers). A good developer can translate words and ideas into code. A good engineer creates those words and ideas.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

KRD — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 16:56:27 GMT

Don't forget the case of the Therac-25 software bug. This was no inconvenience, it caused several deaths. There are a number of other "significant" examples out there if you look for them.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Andy — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:19:28 GMT

The term Engineer implies you have an engineering degree. in

Canada if you call yourself an engineer and you don't have the degree to back it up you will be taken to court as soon as the governing body (Engineers Canada) finds out.

The main difference is Software/Computer engineers (as an engineering discipline) are a subset of 'software developers' we write the code that has to work, we don't really get to 'beta' our systems. we design things like control systems for power plants. firmware for long distance emergency radio networks etc. As a engineer you are designated a professional (in the same way a MD works for doctors or passing the BAR for lawyers), as a professional you are held responsible (legally) for your code. if your firmware for that long distance radio bugs out you can be held legally responsible for it, you can (and probably will) loose your engineering status, and probably end your career.

in short, while and engineer and a software developer share a sub set of skills (in a similar way that an architect and a civil/structural engineer share a set of skills) if you don't have an engineering degree you are not an engineer.

Cheers

-Andy the compE student.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Julie — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:10:56 GMT

I prefer to think of myself as a computer scientist and have never really understood why computer scientists would think software engineer is a better title to have.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Jeremiah.Clark — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:14:55 GMT

KRD,

I agree that there are exceptional cases where software design and development cause death or injury. But the vast majority of software development does not have that type of impact.

If you are designing a software control system for a nuclear power plant, then you might be considered more on the engineering side of the discipline. But even then, they are probably going to bring in physical engineers to build backup systems to provide a safety net in case the software has a problem. I can't imagine that they would leave the nuclear plant solely at the command of the software.

Andy,

If you are designing a microprocessor or hardware component, then you are indeed an Engineer. If you are designing software that uses that hardware, then I am not sure that you are. Just my opinion though. The reason I posted this was to get a feel for what the rest of the community thinks.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Bill — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 18:32:13 GMT

I use the title 'software engineer' over comp. scientist, developer, progammer, coder. I believe the title of 'engineer' denotes a higher level of education/skill than the others. Of course, those that have their 'engineering' certificates (MCSE, CCE, etc) have contributed to the prestige of the title. I consider myself a 'real' engineer simply because I graduated from an actual Engineering department (as opposed to the liberal arts school), and took the same high level math classes/physics as did the other engineers. The same courses in the Lib Arts dept were much easier.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

James Hofmann — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:14:49 GMT

I think engineer is an inappropriate title because most software development involves some amount of research into the problem domain, while engineering is based on exploitation of previously known principles that the engineer is trained in.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

jean-luc — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:23:49 GMT

As an Engineer you also have a better view of all the underlying system. You can't write really optimised code without a good knowledge of the hardware, os, language/compiler, ...

So Yes there is some field where engineering belong to "security" like in nuclear plant, airplane autopilot, and a lot of other places, but it could also belong to performance, energy saving, and much more not that harmfull for people.

Optimizing a code to have good performance on one server instead of a cluster of n machine could also be signifiant. Handling security issue (like in HIPPA), network fiability, secure data storage could also belong to professionnals.

There is a HUGE place in the software industry for designers, content writers, programmers, analysts and also for engineer.

J-Luc

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Jeremiah.Clark — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:31:01 GMT

Jean-Luc,

Given your point, would a software engineer be the same as a software architect? The examples you provided seem very fitting of what an architect does.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

BlogReader — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 19:49:29 GMT

<i>If you put 10 developers in a room and give them a proposal, you will likely have 10 different approaches to achieving the resulting solution. And the 10 developers will argue their individual approach to the end</i>

That's better than if you had 10 economists, you would get 13 different approaches.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Jeremiah.Clark — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:10:09 GMT

BlogReader,

Quite true. And likely none of the 13 will actually work. They might compile though.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Ben — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 20:51:11 GMT

I have both a EE and CS degree, but went into software when I graduated. The two fields are extremely different, even though they share a focus on computers. I wouldn't call software development engineering, though I could see a day when it matures to deserve the title. The most common excuse I hear is that the IEEE says so - an organization that constantly asks for money - and somehow don't believe it was done to increase subscribers. What I despise are those who call themselves scientist, as its nothing compared to what family members had to due to earn that title. Political Science isn't a science either.

Engineering requires extensive use of mathematics and working under the constraints of the real world (physics, chemistry, etc) to solve problems. Product development is far slower and design choices aren't made half-hazardly - effort is made to evaluate alternatives (a week of hacking doesn't magically fix a bad product).

I guess the simplest observation why software isn't a form of engineering is because almost none of its practitioners have ever read an academic paper. In any engineering field with rapid changes, one must constantly read about new research and methods. I do not find that blogs or "agile" books (e.g. Clean Code - its downright aweful) rise to the same quality. Once software developers can no longer wing it, perhaps then they will learn what engineering is like.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Anonymous — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:24:37 GMT

Think medical software.... software engineers kill people, too... If you misdiagnose 0.1% of patients, that could potentially mean thousands of deaths per year, or more.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

cease — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 21:59:48 GMT

the software that runs medical systems, aircraft, car, traffic lights, the software running nuclear power plants, tell the code monkey's that are programming these systems they aren't engineers. Maybe its just you that aren't competent enough to be called an engineer. You're fired!

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

Jeremiah.Clark — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 22:06:06 GMT

cease,

Thanks for the comment. However, I think that these are the exceptions rather than the rule. And you are right, I am not competent enough to be called a Software Engineer, I will be the first to admit that. The day I realized that I didn't know as much as I thought I did was the day I truly started learning.

re: Are Software Developers Really Engineers?

GRM — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:28:38 GMT

It comes down to fundamentals: Software Development is the application of Computer Science which is founded on Discrete Mathematics (Logic, Automata Theory, Languages, etc.). Engineering disciplines are the application of various Engineering Curricula which are founded on Continuous Mathematics (Differential Equations, etc.).

Software developers aren't engineers, we're closer to essayists.