Sorting it all Out

Does it fix the problem I reported here?

Congrats!

Microsoft Keyboard Layout Creator version 1.4 has now been released. See http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8BE579AA-780D-4253-9E0A-E17E51DB2223&displaylang=en

Sorting It All Out : Not the coolest, but 다운로드 1.3을 비스타에서 설치할 경우에 몇가지 문제가 있었다고 합니다. (위의 블로그 링크에 문제들로의

The man of a thousand Unicode characters, Michael Kaplan , recently blogged about the new version of

Michael,

Could you please clarify one thing regarding MSKLC 1.4?

I've found only 32-bit Vista in ur lab :) it's why I am asking:

a) I do know - from you (have read here) and others that under XP64 (not Vista)  a user must have _two_ custom keyboard files:

- one in %WINDIR%\System32 directory

- another in %WINDIR%\SysWOW64 directory - for "older" 32-bit applications running under this 64-bit OS

b) Is it the same under 64-bit Vista? I mean, I use MSKLC, it prepared for me several directories and under 64-bit Vista:

(a) file from         i386         sub-directory should go to the %WINDIR%\System32 directory

(b) and file from        wow64    sub-directory should go to the %WINDIR%\SysWOW64 directory

Right? (64-bit Vista has such directory as well as XP64, right?)

I am asking because someone wrote that while it was necessary under XP64 it is not necessary anymore under Vista, that is under 64-bit Vista  only (a) should be done and that file will work fine for both 64-bit applications and for older 32-bit ones.

It's not correct, is it? We do need (a) _and_ (b) under 64-bit Vista, don't we?

--

Thanks,

Paul

Related question: if I use my "Windows DDK 3790.1830" to build a keyboard layout driver for Windows Server 2003 in x64 or IA-64 build environments, only one .dll is generated, presumably the non-wow64. What's the mistery ?

Cristi

Yes, MSKLC is useful tool, but for x86 keyboard .dll files I am using DDK, it makes more fun :) (and I suspect that back in 2002 I had no choice in doing otherwise)

I see that the WDK is out, I will download and play with it a little. If I will not succeed, no problem, I am happy with the new MSKLC also :)

Cristi

Fun for me, don't know about others :)

It's now more than five years since the users are happy with my keyboard driver, so I suppose it is well written. Apart from that, with the DDK I am offering support for NT 4.0 versions too, something that MSKLC can't do as far as I know (for exemple on NT 4.0 there are no multimedia keys).

Cristi

May I report a usability problem in MSKLC 1.4 under Vista?

Say I prepared installer for my custome (Phonetic) Russian keyboard layout and some end-end-user :-) got it and decided to install:

- s/he sees - for a split second - a window with "Preparing Install"

- then there is nothing on screen - for a long time, I say 15 seconds

- only then Installer window appears

I am afraid, such user will be confused...

It's probably better if there is a window all the time on screen after s/he clicked on install.exe ....

*********

Two small unrelated questions.

I use MSKLC on _32-bit_  Vista and get folders like    i386   and wow64.

1) Will those layout files work under older system - XP64?

2) I look at the size of the files: 6k in i386 and 7k in wow64 -

and then I look what file the Installer placed into System32 folder of my 32-bit Vista -

I see that it's 6k file (that is, it's from i386 folder)

Is it Ok? I mean, it's _32_-bit Vista - should it be a file from wow64 folder?

Or the Installer (built under 32-bit Vista) will place to System32 -

being it 64-bit Vista or 32-bit Vista - same file (from i386) for both?

Thanks,

Paul

> Simple enough? :-)

Almost :) Sorry for double-checking but it looks like eventhough I built the files under 32-bit Windows,

_the same_ dll from i386 is used (placed to System32) on each of 3 systems:

- 32-bit Vista

- 64-bit Vista

- XP64

Right? But last two are not "x86 boxes", they are  "x64 boxes", aren't they?

I am new to 64-bit world, so may ask stupid questions, sorry!

> Have you tried the keyboard in a 64-bit process

No, I did not - if I had an access to a 64-bit Vista, I'd try and not ask questions :)

I also dont' have XP64. All I have - 32-bit Vista

I guess what I don't understand from your list above is the following (regarding regular Intel machines):

- i386 -- installs to system32 on an x86 box (any version of Windows)

x86 box - does it include 64-bit XP or 64-bit Vista or not?

If the answer is "yes" then I _can_ offer the dll from i386 which I built under 32-bit Vista to my Russian readers _even_ if they have XP64 or 64-bit Vista.

If the answer is "No" then I need to have _two_ sets of i386 files - one built under 32-bit Vista and another - built under 64-bit Vista.

1)

> No, an x86 box is 32-bit only. Ever.

> If you have a 64-bit box you never use the i386 file.

Then there is a missing line in your list above (or I am missign something) - you had there a line about

i386 for x86 box (and file from there goes to System32)

but there is no line about

i386 for x64 box...

2) No, my question was not about "not using Installer", please let me state it better:

Fact.

I have Installer build on x86 box - under 32-bit Vista.

It works _there_ fine - according to your list a file from i386 folder goes to System32 folder of that 32-bit Vista

Question.

If I copy this _that_ Installer (built on x86 box) onto a x64 box -

XP64 or Vista 64-bit - will it work?

In that Installer - built under 32-bit Vista (it's all I have) there is no file for x64 box, is it?

Monday... Sorry, Michael, please - if you can - remove my last comment - I finally got it :)

That is when I build Installer on my 32-bit Vista, MSKLC still creates a file fro a 64-bit system - it puts it to

ia64

folder.

Why I was so stupid I guess is because I saw unknown for me word

Itanium

and did not read what's in parenthesys - assumed that it's "some other platform such as say AMD) :)

Thanks for patience!

> Not sure what you mean -- the keyboards should install on NT 4.0, too?

Yes, but not the same driver fol all versions ... my standardized Romanian keyboard layout driver is available separately for NT 4.0, 2000 and XP. Until recently for x86 only, now also for XP 64 bit, thanks to MSKLC 1.4 :)

The NT 4.0 version is a distinct build with Windows DDK. The source code is similar but not the same as for for 2000/XP.

As far as I know, MSKLC files are not compatible with NT 4.0.

Surprisingly or not, I can still find NT 4.0s around me, used for dedicated tasks (e.g. DVS Pronto digital disk recorder, SD version), for which no one finds any reason for upgrading (except, perhaps, an upgrade to the entire system) ...

Cristi

Well, glad to hear that, but I never tried it, because this is what the MSKLC page says: "... your system must meet the following requirements: Windows 2000, Windows XP, Windows Server 2003 or Windows Vista (MSKLC will not run on Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME or Windows NT4)".

I always believe what Microsoft says, I don't feel the need to search for proof :)

Cristi

True, I becomed confused here by the english text ... :(

Unrelated question: is there any possibility to strip the "Company" entry field from the .dll property ? I don't feel confortable with this, since I publish my drivers under my real name "brand", not under my company name brand.

Cristi

I've placed a word 'personal' there

Another MSKLC question.

Under Windows XP (x86) end user - being just a member of Users group - add say "Russian" layout via Control Panel

but can not replace it with a custom layout because he does not have rights to copy a file to System32 folder.

Is it the same for Vista? I saw that MSKLC says something about Administrator Rights - does it mean that a member of Users groups will not be able to use Installer?

Thanks, I get it - a user who belongs to Users group is capable to "Add" a Russian keyboard layout (not being an Admin) only because the file kbdru.dll is already in System32 and is already registered in HKLM. Righ?

Looking back at some of the comments to this post , particularly this one and this one , I am actually

MSKLC 1.4 as well as setup.exe it bulds require .NET 2.0

There was no complain about that on the 32-bit Vista machine I found in the lab at work.

So Vista already has .NET 2.0, right?

MSKLC "package" question.

Somehow I thought that setup.exe is the program that checks Windows version and does needed things to layout files, but apparently it does not work without .msi files.

Why then it's kind of large? Entire .zip takes 300k - is it a little bit too much for copying couple dll to their folders and make Registry changes?

I've also found that setup.exe's are usually a bit bigger because they link to the c runtime statically, rather than dynamically (i.e. to the .lib, rather than the .dll). Obviously, your setup.exe needs to have as few dependencies as possible (usually just USER32, KERNEL32 and GDI32 if you can!) and you certainly can't be sure the user has the c runtime installed (at least, not for VC8, maybe in Vista?) so you link statically. Thus making the executable bigger.

Yeah, that would be another option.

Hello

I'm trying to update and port my French Dvorak layouts to Vista (see URL). I have installed .NET Framework 2.0 and last version of MS KLC on a XP pro PC. MS KLC starts but doesn't display any layout (just a gray background). Anything else seems to work, for example I can load one of my old source file and test it or validate it. What can I do?

Thanks,

Francis

Exactly. Changing the DPI and rebooting fixes the problem. Thank you. Have a nice day,

Francis

One of the interesting benefits of reading this blog is that it can provide answers to questions that