Welcome to MSDN Blogs Sign in | Join | Help

How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

We're currently planning for our next version (aka, "Dev10" - no code name this time) and subsequent releases. In that spirit, I'd like to do a quick poll of MSBuild aficionados to help us keep our "vision" for MSBuild aligned with yours, our customers.

First, a caveat - while ideally I would like to rank the results and work down the list, the reality is that we have other constraints: although we are a separate build platform, our biggest customer by far is Visual Studio and its customers. There's a lot more Visual Studio users than direct MSBuild users, so when Visual Studio needs to add a feature that requires work on MSBuild, we have to help. Then there's other constraints, like team resources. There's no guarantee which of these will appear in what version, and some of them may not be worth any investment. Some of them I just made up.

OK. Here’s some brainstormed features. Some of them are properly Visual Studio features, but they overlap closely with build:

1) Higher performance multiprocessor support. For example, we suspect there is plenty of room to improve the scheduling we do, and find speedups elsewhere in the code. As more and more of us have multicore machines, this might be a good place to invest.

2) VC support. This means converting VC projects (.vcproj) to MSBuild format, a customizable and extensible build process entirely defined by MSBuild .targets files rather than in makefiles or built into the VC project system, reuseable tasks for native code tools just like we have today for managed code, changing the VS project system for VC projects to sit on top of MSBuild format projects and build process, and replacing use of vcbuild.exe with msbuild.exe.

3) Support for other Microsoft project types that aren't yet in MSBuild format: Deployment/MSI (.vdproj), SQL Reporting (.rptproj), Biztalk (.btproj), Speech server (.prproj) etc -- whether currently supported by a VS project system or not. This is essentially a process of internal evangelization and encouragement for us.

4) Conversion of Visual Studio solution files (.sln files) and their (rudimentary) build process to MSBuild format and the VS support for reading and writing these, opening the way to create a targets file useful for traversing a tree of projects, and to let VS cleanly support n-level project hierarchies.

5) Extensible up-to-date checking: a way to plug in up-to-date checker extensions that you could use on selected Targets as an alternative to the simple timestamp checking you are currently restricted to. Perhaps including a ready-made extension that would by some means automatically support transitive dependencies - header files are an example of these; or to compare public interfaces for significant changes.

6) Distributed Build. (Like multiprocessor build we are now shipping, but building spread over a set of machines that you have pre-provisioned; possibly opening the way for future Team Build support for it too.)

7) Extensible reuseable inline tasks. This means the ability to create extensions that consume the language or description format of your choice and to create a task that you could use without explicit compilation or deployment. For example, a Powershell extension that you could use to create tasks implemented in Powershell. Think of putting script underneath a <UsingTask> element. These inline tasks would be easy to create and share online. Might include ready-made extensions for Powershell, and/or a data-description format for tool switches, so you could quickly create a task wrapping a command line tool without any compilation.

8) Typing and scoping for items and properties. For example, declaring an item to contain a path; letting a property fall out of scope at the end of a target.

9) Extensible functions. Today we have only 'exists(..)' and it's stepchild 'hastrailingslash(...)'. This would be an extension allowing new functions to be created for use in conditional expressions, and possibly elsewhere, and some functions like perhaps combinepath($(root),$(file)). Perhaps more built-in metadata to go along with %(Filename) and such.

11) An MSBuild debugger with full Visual Studio support for stepping, inspecting locals, and breakpoints. Today you have to use <Message> tasks and gaze at diagnostic logging output.

12) Visualization for project and target dependencies, mining of what files are consumed by what projects, impact analysis for changes to particular files, possibly leading to support for build refactoring at the project/tree level. This is essentially richer logging and datamining and a high level on a huge source tree.

So now here's the poll. If you had only $100 to spend, how would you distribute it amongst them?

Dan

(Edit: gave Distributed build a unique number :-) )

Published Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:43 PM by msbuild

Comment Notification

If you would like to receive an email when updates are made to this post, please register here

Subscribe to this post's comments using RSS

Comments

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:54 PM by Giorgio Galante

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

How about spending $80 of that $100 on an MSBuild UI editor ala FinalBuilder.  I don't bother using MSBuild for anything beyond the project/solution compilation tasks.

Personally, XML is too verbose and annoying to deal with, when there are plenty of better tools out there to achieve the same goals.

Saturday, November 17, 2007 2:56 PM by BinaryCoder

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$35 (#7) Inline tasks: with built-in support for C# and VB

$25 (#8) Typing and scoping for items and properties

$25 (#5) Extensible up-to-date checking

$15 (#9) Extensible functions: with ability to define these using inline scripts like (#7)

Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:05 PM by Mike Ward

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$30 (#7) - Inline tasks

$20 (#3) - Deployment/MSI

$20 (#4) - Conversion of .sln

$20 (#1) - Multiprocessor

$10 (#11) - Debugger

Saturday, November 17, 2007 3:53 PM by Fabio Vazquez

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 (#11) - Debugger

$50 (#12) - Visualization

Saturday, November 17, 2007 4:09 PM by Kjell-Åke Andersson

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 - $5

#3 - $30

#4 - $30

#11 - $15

#12 - $20

Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:04 PM by Bert Huijben

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$20 (#1) Multicore speedup

$25 (#2) VC Projects

$ 5 (#4) Solutions

$30 (#7) Internal tasks

$ 5 (#9) Internal functions

$15 (#12) Build visualization

Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:09 PM by John Hall

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$90 (#2) VC support

$10 (#5) Extensible up-to-date checking

Saturday, November 17, 2007 9:14 PM by Li Yang

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 (#11) - Debugger

$50 (#12) - Visualization

Saturday, November 17, 2007 11:12 PM by Mitch Wagner

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 [#11] - Debugger

$25 [#12] - Visualization

$10 [#9]  - built in functions

$10 [#8]  - Typing and scoping

$5  [#7]  - extensible reusable inline tasks

Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:36 AM by john

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3

#4

#2

In that order.

Sunday, November 18, 2007 8:25 AM by David Parrish

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$30 (6) Distributed Build

$20 (8) Typing and scoping

$20 (11) MSBuild debugger

$10 (2) VC support

$10 (3) Support for .vdproj

$10 (4) Conversion of .sln

Sunday, November 18, 2007 9:26 AM by Veksi

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 VC support

#1 Higher performance multiprocessor support

#4 Conversion of Visual Studio solution files

And then better debug and visualisation support

Sunday, November 18, 2007 1:13 PM by Scott Weinstein

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$35 - #5 - extensible uptodate check

$35 - #12 dependenency visualization -  wpf please

$5 - #4 .sln files are so lame

$0 - #3 this should be the responsibility of those project teams. On our project - if somthing requires an IDE to build, it's not viable tech for us.

$25 - #1

Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:34 PM by buckh

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Here's my take.  Making the experience of developing, maintaining, and debugging msbuild scripts would be hugely valuable.

12 - visualization - $30

11 - msbuild debugger - $25

?? - visual editor, navigation (e.g., jump to target or property, symbolic search, navigation) - $20

3 - support for non-msbuild projects - this is extremely important, but as Scott says, it's the other teams that need to do the work

2 - vc support - $20

9 - extensible functions - $5

Buck

Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:36 PM by Buck Hodges

# How would you prioritize features for MSBuild?

Dan Moseley, a developer on the MSBuild team , wants to know how you would prioritize features for the

Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:58 PM by JuzC

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$70 Supporting other project types (espec. .vdproj)

$30 Interface and built in functionality for manually and automatically modifying assembly versions (and setup proj versions) with each build.

Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:29 PM by Noticias externas

# How would you prioritize features for MSBuild?

Dan Moseley, a developer on the MSBuild team , wants to know how you would prioritize features for the

Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:18 PM by James Geall

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 1$

#4 20$

#3 79$, sort of.

Would you consider making the internal SolutionParser(name from memory) class (it creates an msbuild proj file in memory that represents the solution) extensible so that when it finds a project it doesn't recognise it raises an event or looks at some plugins to parse said project and create build tasks for it?  That may make it easier for your teams to pickup internally and allow people outside microsoft to develop support for project types important to them.

Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:44 PM by Grant Holliday

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$40 - #3 Other Project types

$40 - #4 Conversion of .sln files to MSBuild

$10 - #12 Visualization for project and target dependencies

$5 - #5 Debugger

$5 - #6 Distributed build

Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:51 PM by GertGregers

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#11 - $60

#12 - $25

#3 - $15

Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:03 PM by John Bennett

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

1) Multiprocessor support: $15

3) Project types:

  - $30 for Deployment/MSI projects

  - $5 for Sql Reporting projects

4) .sln files: $5

7) Extensible reusable inline tasks: $20

11) Debugger: $25

Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:37 PM by Maor David

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#12 - visualization - $30

#1 - msbuild debugger - $25

#2 - vc support - $20

#9 - extensible functions - $5

#7 - Inline tasks  - $20

Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:39 PM by Maor David

# How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Dan Moseley, a developer on the MSBuild team , wants to know how you would prioritize features for the

Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:41 PM by Justin-Josef Angel [MVP]

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 - 10$

#2 -  0$

#3 - 0$ (nice to have, tons of work for nothing)

#4 -  5$ (nice to have, Abbot time we have it)

#5 - 0$

#6 - 10$

#7 - 10$ (Demo driven feature)

#8 -  0$

#9 -  10$

#11 - 50$

#12 - 25$

Debugging - 50$

Visualization - 25$

Multiprocessor & Multi machine build - 20$

SLN - 5$

The two most needed features in terms of development is the things that allready exists elsewhere - Debugging & Drag and drop development cycle.

Sunday, November 18, 2007 6:38 PM by Eugenez

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 $15

#2 $20

#3 $5

#4 $25

#5 $0

#6 $5

#7 $5

#8 $0

#9 $10

#11 $10

#12 $5

To me the most important feature is having all VS projects/solutions work with MSBuild. Performance related features (will be useful for Team Build) come after that.

All other things are useful - but only once the above two are implemented.

Monday, November 19, 2007 1:35 AM by Sayed Ibrahim Hashimi

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

4   - $45

6   - $10

7   - $10

11 - $30

12 - $10

Monday, November 19, 2007 2:45 AM by Carel Lotz

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#7 - $10

#9 - $30

#11 - $50

#12 - $10

Monday, November 19, 2007 3:19 AM by Ali

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2  $30

#4  $30

#6  $20

#12  $20

Monday, November 19, 2007 3:33 AM by Dennis

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$100 Make it easier to set the Version at build time instead of having to edit AssemblyInfo files.

Monday, November 19, 2007 4:05 AM by Stephane Tombeur

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 (VC) $20

#4 (SLN) $30

#7 (inline tasks) $10

#8 (prop scoping) $10

#11 (debugging) $30

Monday, November 19, 2007 4:47 AM by Rudenko Sergey

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2  (.vcproj) 10$

#3  (.vdproj) 45$

   (.rptproj),(.prproj) 10$

# 6 (distributed build) 5$

#11 (debugging) 20$

#12 (visualization) 10%

Monday, November 19, 2007 4:48 AM by Martin MacPherson

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$55 (#11) - Debugger

$30 (#12) - Visualization

$10 (#6) - Distributed Build

$5 (#8) - Typed and scoped properties..

Monday, November 19, 2007 5:04 AM by kingbing

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Currently, to build an editor, I'd need to parse and understand the file myself, rather than use the object model (I'm thinking in particular that there's no way to enumerate the metadata associated with elements). My $100 would go entirely to allowing me to fully access an arbitrary .proj file from the object model.

This way anyone could build an editor (including yourselves, but hey, I know how busy you are, and I've only got a measly 100 bucks to spend...)

Cheers

Matt

Monday, November 19, 2007 5:17 AM by Johan Andersson

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$33 - (Not in list) "Framework support" for writing unit test fixtures for task libraries

$33 - 4) Conversion of Visual Studio solution files

$33 - 7) Extensible reuseable inline tasks

Monday, November 19, 2007 7:52 AM by Dirk Rombauts

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

3) $30

4) $15

7) (with C#, VB, PowerShell) $25

9) $5

13) full object-model support, which opens the way for unit tests: $25

Monday, November 19, 2007 8:09 AM by acorcoran

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Visualization - $60

Debugger - $30

Lunch with Build Team - $10

Monday, November 19, 2007 8:37 AM by jbramwell

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 - (11) Debugger (this would be an awesome addition!)

$30 - (7) Extensible inline tasks - I could see this feature getting huge use (and re-use)

$15 - (3) Support for other project types

$5 - (8) Typing/scoping

Monday, November 19, 2007 8:54 AM by Aaron Hallberg

# How Would You Spend $100 On MSBuild?

The MSBuild team is looking for some feedback from the community to keep their "vision" for the next

Monday, November 19, 2007 9:17 AM by Steve Nuchia

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

remove the distinctions between the IDE's build system and MSBUILD; eliminate all "special" project formats.

Get with the 3rd party tool vendors and make their compilers work with MSBUILD!!!!!!!!

then add a debugger.  (Actually, add the debugger early since it will help with evangelism)

#2: $25

#3: $10

#4: $25

#11: 25

#12: 15

Once I can actually use msbuild to do my builds it might become interesting to think about performance and syntax improvements.

Monday, November 19, 2007 9:39 AM by Markus Schiller

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Give $100 for number 4, the Visual Studio SLNs. This is a conceptual break which hurts in TeamBuild alot! Even the 30 year old make (happy birthday make http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Make_%28software%29#Origin) does a better job here.

Monday, November 19, 2007 9:46 AM by Chris Lively

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$40: MSBuild UI.  Use the Visual Studio platform and make a decent UI for this.  

$50: #3.  Anything the IDE can build, MSBuild should be able to handle.

$10: Get rid of the ellipses in the build log files.  Sometimes trying to track down exactly which file msbuild is complaining about is difficult.  It's a log file, who cares how long the path is.

Monday, November 19, 2007 11:58 AM by josh

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

11 (Debugger):  $40.  Yes please, complex build scripts can be a PITA to get right.

4 (Solutions to MSBuild):  $20, I hate having to choose between solutions and buildfiles.

8 (Typing/scoping):  $20, it's a little jarring the first time you realize this doesn't work.  Would be nice.

9 (Extensible Functions): $10

7 (Inline Tasks): $10, both of these would help make build customization easier.

Monday, November 19, 2007 12:48 PM by Anthony

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

As a newbie, debugging a MSBuild script is definitely the most time-consuming part.

So that's #11

#4 might feed into the MSBuild-from-MSBuild scripts that I've seen used. It would probably make this easier. MSBuild-from-MSBuild is OK, so long as you're aware that no environment is passed across unless it's specified explicitly (see time taken to debug...).

#3 has already been done for installers, it's called Wix 3.  Please do it for Sandcastle docs. Doing it for others too looks reasonable, not that I have suffered personally from the lack.

The rest look a bit more esoteric - get the basics right first. If you want MSBuild to be more like a programming language, why not just make MSBuild a class (or set of classes) usable from powershell scripts? That's a good programming wheel, don't reinvent it badly with ugly XMl syntax, global vars and include files everywhere.

I would spend:

#3: $20

#4: $40

#11: $40

Monday, November 19, 2007 12:51 PM by Ken

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 on #11 Debugger

$30 on #9  Extensible Functions

$20 on #1  Higher performance multiprocessor support

Monday, November 19, 2007 12:52 PM by Dylan Smith

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$20 - [3] Support for other project types

$30 - [4] Conversion of sln to MSBuild

$50 - [?] Full-Fledged GUI interface to create and maintain MSBuild scripts

Monday, November 19, 2007 1:16 PM by John Robbins

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Debugger - $50

VC support - $25

Visualization - $25

Monday, November 19, 2007 1:39 PM by Rick Glos

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

3)  50% Support for other Microsoft project types... - we're using WiX, would be nice to swap it out and maybe this might put some pressure on making installers a better toolset in the VS Package

12) 40% Visualization for project and target dependencies... This would be nice.

4)  10% Conversion of Visual Studio solution files... If just for the sake of clarity in switching between non-xml .sln and xml .*proj files

Monday, November 19, 2007 1:49 PM by Ran Davidovitz

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

40$ - 3) Support for other Microsoft project types.

30$ - 4) Conversion of Visual Studio solution files.

20$ - 7) Extensible reuseable inline tasks.

5$ - 9) Extensible functions.

5$ - Visualization for project and target dependencies.

Monday, November 19, 2007 3:03 PM by Tom A

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

I think it is very important at this late stage to get the other groups to get with it and move to the MSBuild format.  I can't believe that even in VS 2008 the vdproj files are not MSBuild and thus can't build from a pure MSBuild command-line.  We had to go to WiX to avoid devenv.exe builds.  A true IDE like Visual Build Pro would be awesome, but their tool is so inexpensive already that it probably isn't worth Microsoft's time to duplicate it.

Monday, November 19, 2007 4:58 PM by Patrick

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$ 50 Distribute Processing

$ 50 Load Balancing Builds and Scheduled Builds Across a Farm

Monday, November 19, 2007 5:04 PM by msbuild

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

@Steve

>> Get with the 3rd party tool vendors and make their compilers work with MSBUILD!!!!!!!!

We need your help advocating this to those vendors. But a few months ago, Borland's released their latest IDE and it now uses MSBuild for builds of native code.

Dan

Monday, November 19, 2007 7:27 PM by Keith Hill

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$25 on #7 - Oh man, PowerShell in msbuild would rock my world!

$25 on #11 - msbuild debugger

$20 on #3 - support deployment projects

$15 on #4 - convert SLN format to msbuild

$10 on #2 - support VC projects directly

$5 on  #9 - extensible functions

Monday, November 19, 2007 8:36 PM by Cleve Littlefield

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 - Debugger

$25 - Converting to all MSBuild solution system, 2, 3, 4

$25 - Deployment support for Test, Pre-Production, and production environments (with log on what was applied, and when).  Should run appropriate test suite after deployment (full suite in test, smoke test in production).

Monday, November 19, 2007 9:08 PM by Joshua Flanagan

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 $10

#4 $20

#5 $30

#9 $40

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:04 AM by Gavin Greig

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

1. Multiprocessor support: $5

2. VC support: $20

3. Other project types: $20

4. Solution files: $10

5. Up-to-date checking: $5

6. Distributed build: $5

7. Inline tasks: $2

8. Type & scope: $3

9. Extensible functions: $5

11. Debugger: $20

12. Analysis: $5

All worthwhile, but 2, 3 and 4 (making MSBuild all-inclusive) should be the top priority. BTW, please ask them to migrate .vdproj to WiX. The debugger (11) is a killer feature, so next most important. The other features are nice to have (*very* nice in some cases - those analysis features made me drool a bit), but much less important.

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:25 PM by Jeff Hunsaker

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 (BizTalk, etc.) -- $80

#4 (.sln) -- $15

#12 (visual) -- $5

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:44 PM by Roland K

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 (Biztalk) -- $80

#6 (Distributed Build) -- $15

Coffee -- $5

Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:45 PM by Shawn W

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 - 50%, do it fast and good, sln files must go away as they don't scale and overly complacate large tree builds that have non-trivial dependancy graphs.

#2,3 - 40%, These two items are the same thing get all the *proj files to just work, do it good

#7 - 10%, do it cheap, while this functionality has a high value for some, more often than not inline code will just make the build files harder to maintain for the majority of builders.

The rest would benefit from having the above list completed first.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 12:15 AM by Justin

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50: VDPROJ (Deployment/MSI) project support

$30: VC project support

$20: SLN support

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:07 AM by Austin Donnelly

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 on #1: faster multiprocessor builds

$25 on #7: inline tasks

$25 on #11: debugger

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:14 AM by FreeToDev

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

1)  $5

3)  $40

6)  $10

7)  $15

9)  $15

11) $10

12) $5

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:48 AM by Klaus RM

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

2) $40

4) $40

1) $10

12) $10

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:30 PM by AC [MVP MOSS]

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 - $25

#7 - $30

#11 - $35

#12 - $10

And if I can issue myself a $50 mail in rebate form, I'll toss in another $25 for #11, $15 for #7 and $10 for #4.

+ a big THANK YOU for asking for customer feedback! I'll even mail in my $50.

Wednesday, November 21, 2007 6:17 PM by Steve St Jean

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 Higher perf - $50

#4 Convert .sln - $15

#2 VC Support - $15

#11 Debugger - $10

#12 Visualizers - $10

Thursday, November 22, 2007 3:30 AM by Jim McGregor

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#11 Debugger $75

#12 Visualisation $20

#7  Inline reusable tasks $5

Friday, November 23, 2007 12:08 AM by From the software development trenches

# Izindaba #19

Time for another weekly round-up of developer news that focuses on .NET, agile and general development

Friday, November 23, 2007 2:40 AM by Aikson

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 VC support $70

#12 Visualisation $20

#4 Solution files: $10

Friday, November 23, 2007 6:50 AM by Floh

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#6 Distributed Build $80

#4 Conversion of sln files $10

#11 Debugger $10

Friday, November 23, 2007 9:08 AM by Chris

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

11 - 55 bucks

12 - 20 bucks

4 - 15 bucks

One week of building a team build for 120+ VC6 / VB6 / MSBuild projects made me want those the most.

Friday, November 23, 2007 3:52 PM by Muhammed Inam

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 Deployment/MSI & BizTalk $80

#4 Conversion of sln files  $15

#11 Debugger $5

Saturday, November 24, 2007 6:30 PM by Ben

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#11 - MSBuild debugger: $70

#12 - Visualization: $30

Monday, November 26, 2007 2:59 AM by Malte

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 BizTalk $80

#4 Conversion $10

#11 Debugger $0

Monday, November 26, 2007 5:49 PM by Josh

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 VC Builds: $50

#4 Solutions: $10

#6 Distributed Builds: $40

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 12:34 AM by Craig

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3  - $40

#4  - $30

#11 - $25

#12 - $ 5

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 3:59 AM by prulifson

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#6 - $50

#11 - $25

#12 - $25

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:06 AM by Rune

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#6 - $50

#11 - $25

#12 - $25

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:42 AM by Morten Brun

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2  - $25

#4  - $25

#6  - $25

#12 - $25

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 6:34 AM by Sergey Popov

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 (Multiprocessor) - $10

#2 (VC support) - $0

#3 (Support for other project types) - $0

#4 (Conversion of VS solutions) - $5

#5 (Extensible up-to-date checking) - $0

#6 (Distributed Build) - $0

#7 (Extensible reuseable inline tasks) - $30

#8 (Typing and scoping) - $15

#9 (Extensible functions) - $30

#11 (An MSBuild debugger ) - $5

#12 (Visualization) - $5

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 4:25 PM by Steve

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 (VS Solutions) - $33

#7 (Extensibility) - $33

#11 (Debugging) - $33

Tuesday, November 27, 2007 7:54 PM by Dean ONeill

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 $50 (VC native support is a MUST have)

#1 $25 (better multi-proc support)

#6 $25 (multi-machine support)

Our code base is in the 10s of millions of lines of C and C++ code, and our builds take hours and hours. So anything to help that along would be great! To be perfectly honest, I want every darn item in that list, eventually.

Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:08 AM by larryd

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$75 - Mulitple builds at one time on one box

$25 - more like NAnt, in otherwords programable

Wednesday, November 28, 2007 10:30 AM by aaronhallberg

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

My vote would be to spend $50 on getting the full solution/project system MSBuild compliant (vcproj, other project types, solutions), $40 on the debugger, and $10 on the miscellaneous syntax improvements (typing and scoping, re-usable inline tasks, extensible functions).  The other features (improved multiproc support, distributed build, project/target dependency visualization) target what I think is probably a pretty small segment of the market, though based on the other comments I may be wrong here!

Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:03 AM by dvanderboom

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Performance, performance, performance.

$50 - #5 Extensible Up-to-date Checking.

Right now when I "build solution", it seems to spend too much time figuring out if the project has changed, and builds projects that shouldn't need to be rebuilt.

$30 - #1 Greater Multi-processor Performance

For obvious reasons.

$20 - #13 Better scheduling of tasks, even for single-processor performance

The bottleneck for MSBuild is file access, right?  So when multiple projects are being built, why isn't my disk access in Resource Monitor pegged constantly?  It reads for a while, then stops reading while compiling the code, then starts hitting the disk again later to write out files, etc.  I imagine some kind of thread should be constantly filling the funnel and queueing up files into memory proactively so that no downstream tasks are held up.  Thrash the disk like crazy and don't let any non-disk-accessing gaps appear.

Also, the use of multiple threads and concurrent builds could be useful even on single-processor machines.  I'm guessing some multithreading must already be going on, but an optimization of these could probably do wonders.

Friday, November 30, 2007 12:18 PM by MSBuild Team Blog

# Response to the feature poll

There were over 80 responses to my recent post asking for feedback on where MSBuild should be heading

Friday, November 30, 2007 1:14 PM by Noticias externas

# Response to the feature poll

There were over 80 responses to my recent post asking for feedback on where MSBuild should be heading

Friday, November 30, 2007 5:26 PM by abdul

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$40 (#11) MSBuild debugger (especially important if you add more "cleverness" through extensible functions - which means more obscure ways of breaking a build)

$30 (#2) VC++ support

$10 (#4) SLN support

$10 (#7) Extensible inline tasks

$10 (#9) Extensible functions

Monday, December 03, 2007 2:19 PM by David A.

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50: #4 - Solution file in MSBuild

$50: #9 - Extensible functions

Monday, December 03, 2007 3:14 PM by Jon S

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

11) An MSBuild debugger  $50

12) Visualization $35

6) Distributed Builds $15

Monday, December 03, 2007 10:02 PM by Noticias externas

# Debuggability tops MSBuild feature poll

Dan Mosely recently posted a feature poll on the MSBuild blog . Here are the results . Debuggability

Tuesday, December 04, 2007 4:25 PM by Maor David

# Most Wanted: Debugging For MSBuild

I posted few weeks ago about the feature poll of MSBuild team on the MSBuild blog . Here are the results

Wednesday, December 05, 2007 3:19 PM by Lakshmi Akkiraju

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#11 - $30

#7  - $30

#12 - $20

#6  - $5

#4, #2, #3 - $15

Wednesday, December 05, 2007 6:36 PM by Ion Singh

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$90 #3 setup projects

$10: #4

Thursday, December 06, 2007 10:46 PM by AndyW

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

From an enterprise perspective #3 is probably worth $110.

There are three main scenarios.

a) Packaging programmer code (deployment project using application project output)

b) Packaging 3rd party product/legacy application (thats not packaged) where they just provide a zip file full of files and directories.

c) Re-Packaging 3rd party product that has already been packaged (such as applying additonal transforms).

a) and b) really need automating. VStudio is flawed in that the file-open dialog used to select the files to be packaged, does not handle directory selection (so each directory has to be manually added, then individual files).

It would be good to have an automated process where I can assign a package script to a directory have have it automatically package any files/folders/sub-folders that are dropped into that directory.  Perhaps the result of a build or a 3rd party supplying a new zip file etc.

Friday, December 07, 2007 5:10 PM by msbuild

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

@AndyW

Thanks for this detail -- I've passed it on to the team that owns deployment projects.

I think they're getting the message, everybody wants MSBuild based deployment projects.

Dan

Friday, December 14, 2007 2:11 PM by Jeff Gullett

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$80 # 9: I would like to be able to see if a certain symbol was defined within the project build options using the /define:VarName argument, so I can conditionally reference that file.

$15 #11: MSBuild Debugger

$ 5 # 4: Convert .sln -> MSBuild

Sunday, December 23, 2007 4:56 PM by Ian Jorgensen

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$ 40 (4)  Msbuild sln

$ 40 (11) Debugger

$ 10 (9)  Extensible functions

$ 10 (7)  Extensible reuseable inline tasks

Friday, December 28, 2007 10:46 AM by Burton

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 $75 VC Support Shoulda happened in VS05

#3 $20 DEPLOYMENT!!! (.vdproj would be nice, but WIX or other "full featured" would be AWESOME)

#8 $5

Saturday, January 19, 2008 1:45 PM by Pete

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$80 (4) Convert .sln file

$20 (3) Other project types

Monday, January 21, 2008 1:51 PM by Alex

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 $70 VC Support (VS2005 including)

#3 $30 Support for other Microsoft project types

Friday, February 01, 2008 8:49 AM by Richard Nagle

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 $100

But rather than a converter I'd like to see VS replace .sln files with MS-Build files. Probably just a pipe-dream but I think this would have huge benefits for anyone with a more than basic configuration.

Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:30 PM by Kevin Rose

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

6. $50

7. $20

11.$10

12.$20

Monday, February 25, 2008 12:49 PM by Nicolas Gauvin

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2(VC Support): $40

#4(Sln Support): $40

#1(Higher perf multiproc): $20

Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:54 AM by Adam Lacey

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 - $100

MUST replace solution files -- how do you build multiple projects using one MSBuild script?

Thursday, March 06, 2008 12:01 PM by msbuild

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

@Adam Lacey

> how do you build multiple projects using one MSBuild script?

Hi Adam, could you clarify what you mean? MSBuild can already build solution files. Also some people create "traversal projects" that simply run MSBuild on a list of projects. These could even be nested. I take your point that this is definitely not ideal, because VS cannot open such things yet.

Dan

Thursday, March 06, 2008 7:23 PM by Jason Spicer

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#1 - $20

#2 - $20

#3 - $20

#4 - $20

#12 - $20

Thursday, March 13, 2008 11:28 PM by SpiderM9

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#2 - $20

#4 - $30

#5 - $50

Xoreax will figure out #6, and it will only cost me about $100.

Monday, April 07, 2008 9:01 AM by Victor Sergienko

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#9 - 70

#6, #8, #11 - $10 each

And another $100 of mine for GenerateBootstrapper to:

$20 - to fix "MSI not found after .NET installation reboot"

$30 - to make .NET installation launchable from a bootstrapper launched from another MSI;

$45 - to make setup.exe a SFX archive that contains my MSI inside.

$5 - to make ReadLinesFromFile not trim them.

Sunday, April 13, 2008 5:49 AM by Daniel R

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#3 - 50$

#4 - 30$

#1 - 10$

#12 - 5$

#11 - 5$

Friday, May 02, 2008 11:51 PM by mikeycooper

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

Late to the party, I know, but if #4 also provides some kind of support akin to solutions embedded into other solutions, $100.  One of the most frustrating parts of n-tier development with VS solutions for me has been having to add a newly referenced project by something low down in the stack (say a framework project now depends on a new framework-crypto project) to EVERY solution that uses the framework project.  Having Visual Studio somehow manage project inclusion would be dreamy.

Tuesday, May 06, 2008 9:19 AM by Anonymous

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

I have a problem with msbuild on VC++ Win32 solution. When I run the msbuild on that solution file, it builds and the ide opens immediately with that solution file. Why is it so? Also, one of the dependency proj was missing. Is it because of that?

Thursday, June 19, 2008 8:01 AM by Duncan Handley

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

It has to be

#2 - $33

#3 - $33

#4 - $33

everything else - $1

You have to make msbuild a standard before you do anything else with it.  I work for a very large multi-national company, and we have applications written in many languages, particularly C.  I wanted to standardise us on MSBuild for all our Microsoft related apps, but because you don't use msbuild for VC project files, or any solution files I may have to recommend we use something else.

Monday, June 30, 2008 6:14 PM by frank

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$100 dollars for .vdproj support.  without this it is just another useless tool that can not complete the job needed

Tuesday, July 15, 2008 7:42 PM by Bu Hai-Qing

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$50 (#11) - Debugger

$50 (#12) - Visualization

Wednesday, November 05, 2008 3:24 PM by Richard Winks

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

#4 - $40

#2 - $40

#3 - $20

Top priority, get all solution/project/build related files into consistent / extensible format.

Monday, December 08, 2008 9:51 AM by NTR

# Path length limit 248/260 characters

What about fixing something that everybody at some point encounters. The use of absolute paths and the related maximum characters error. This is a constant annoyance for us, since we try to honor .NET naming guidelines and try to give products real names instead of acronyms or similar. And windows does support paths longer than 256 so why this limit?

The error: Typically with $(FullName) something:

The specified path, file name, or both are too long. The fully qualified file name must be less than 260 characters, and the directory name must be less than 248 characters.

Friday, February 06, 2009 12:27 PM by AYoG

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$40 - #9: Extensible functions

$60 - #11: Debugger

Thursday, April 23, 2009 12:55 PM by Fabrizio Benedetti

# re: How would you spend $100 on MSBuild?

$80 on #2 (.vcproj migration)

$20 on a Visual Editor (I am evaluating SideKick, but without .vcproj migration to MSBuild it's of little use)

Leave a Comment

(required) 
required 
(required) 

  
Enter Code Here: Required
 
Page view tracker