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Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

We learned our lesson the hard way.

In Windows 95, we gave programmatic access to the Start menu "Fast items" list - the items that appear at the top of the Start menu above the Programs list. This area was meant for the user to customize with their favorite links, but programs quickly saw the opportunity and spammed themselves into it every chance they got.

In IE, we gave programmatic access to the Favorites menu, and once again, programs spammed themselves into it.

In Windows XP we intentionally did not give programmatic access to the bold list of items at the top of the Start menu (the "pin list"). The pin list is for users to put their favorite icons. It is not the place for a program to decide unilaterally, "I am so cool. I am your favorite icon. I just know it. So I'll put myself there because, well, I'm so cool."

Because we knew that the moment we let people mess with the pin list, everybody would install themselves into it and it would become meaningless (and annoying).

What's particularly galling are the programs that, as part of their install, decide that they are so cool they want to be everywhere to make sure you don't miss out on the coolest most amazing program ever written in the history of mankind, so they go into the Start menu, into the Fast items, onto the desktop, into the Quick Launch, onto your Favorites, take over as your default autoplay handler, and even hang out as an icon next to the clock on the taskbar just in case you somehow missed all those other places - and each time you run them, they go and recreate those icons and settings in case you "accidentally lost them".

I hate those programs.

Published Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:37 PM by oldnewthing
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Comments

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:21 PM by Kevin Dente
Amen, brother.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:26 PM by Anonymous
i wondeR who hE's tALking about?

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:26 PM by Donald Kackman
RealPlayer is one of the owrst offenders in this regard. I won't install it anymore for this very reason.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:33 PM by saberworks
That sort of thing drives me nuts. The protection should be enabled on EVERYTHING. No program should be allowed to put itself anywhere OTHER than the start menu (and not in "startup" either) without my explicit permission. I don't want anything in my systray except volume control. I don't want anything on my desktop that I don't put there. I don't want anything in quicklaunch because *I* should be the one to decide which things I want to launch quickly. If the windows team saw all this abuse as far back as windows 95, why didn't they take a more serious action other than just preventing it from the start menu? Make that protection system wide!

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 2:21 PM by Dominic Hopton
Because, by then, it had already happened. There was no oppertunity to remove that access without breaking setup programs. Also, vendors who already used this functionality would bitch and complain about it being removed. BTW Raymond, your not 100% accurate saying that there is no programatic access to the Pinned items - if you change the default Web Browser or Mail client the changes are relfected there. Also, therei s *some* sort of programatic access to the "most used items" because XP By default rams applications up there that take ages to fall down. Which is a wee bit naughty. I dont know if Real et al stuffs them in there since I refuse to use that evil software

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:16 PM by GMan
Real can be bad but you CAN get it off all those places. I have it installed and it's only one place, in the start menu -> programs. There are options in the installer to not install it most of those other places and once installed there are options to get it off the taskbar AND out of quick launch. Now, what I really wish was that the Start Menu was indirected so that no matter where I moved a folder or icon in Programs, when I uninstalled the software it would know how to delete its crap. On top of that, when I re-installed or installed a new version it would know where I had moved its folder inside Start->Programs folder. My programs menu is TOO BIG so I need to sort things into sub folders like "crap". (stuff I will almost never manually pick) "development" more stuff I will almost never pick like SDK shortcuts, etc.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:08 PM by Ryan
Uh oh, Saberworks used the term 'systray'! Raymond, have you told everyone your story about systray yet?

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:25 PM by Raymond Chen
To tell the story about "systray" properly I need to be able to upload a picture, but I'm not set up to do that, so it'll have to wait until I figure out how it's done.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:00 PM by runtime
please do! I am very curious to hear more about the dreaded systray. :-)

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 8:31 PM by Zorba the Hutt
I remember a while back, on Win98, I used tweakUI to move the "startup" folder into c:\windows\startup so it wasn't cluttering my start menu anymore. It always amused me when a program created a "startup" directory in the start menu in the futile hope that their program would be run. Of course, some programs were smart enough to use the appropriate function to find out *where* the "startup" directory was - but a surprising number weren't.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:08 AM by Raj Chaudhuri
Zorba raises an interesting point here. Raymond, maybe you could do a post about the evolution of "special location APIs" (GetWindowsDirectory, GetSystemDirectory,SHGetFolderPath). Maybe include the NT Environment variables which provide some of this info, too.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:38 AM by Omar Shahine
Even worse are programs that draw their own menus, buttons etc. They decide that standard windows controls are not cool enough.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:54 AM by w.h.
Sometimes you have to make stuff owner-drawn. The customer wants it to look and act just like the latest Windows or Office version. There's no standard API to draw things that way, so you have to do some owner-drawing. The problem is that those self-important programmers ruin things for the rest of us. At some point, the folks on the windows team opted to prevent us garden-variety windows programmers from popping up windows unless it was in the same task. Which provoked some programming difficulty for the product I work on, where we want to send a message up to the server to pop up a window and have a window in a seperate executable be brought to the top. But all that happens is that the window we want is just flashing in the taskbar. It's the revenge factor. Anything will be used against us somehow. Every "rich" feature of email applications, save plain text, has been used to spam, invade our privacy, or be obnoxious in general.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:27 AM by About Real Player stuff
I caught it in the act while recording an installation with Wininstall LE: Real works ALL THE TIME, writing some stuff on "Application Data" folder even thought it was not started or listed on Task Manager. So I found an alternative, Media Player Classic. Just do a Google on "real player alternative" - I believe there is some kind of ilegallity here, because it uses most of the dll's from the real Real. Another place that fell in the hands of the barbarians is the "Tools" menu on IE and most uninstallers do not bother to clean it. ...And yet another barbarian that is setting a shortcut there is Yahoo IM.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:14 AM by Oleksiy Kolisnychenko
Raymond, can you tell us a story about why Office-style GUI is unavailable for the rest of developers? Moreover, I saw the screenshots of Longhorn, it uses really cool GUI. Will this GUI will also available for the rest of developers too?

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:00 AM by Eyal
Doesn't Microsoft Office install icons to the start menu too?

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 7:53 AM by Anonymous
Sounds like he's talking about Outlook.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:33 AM by Eyal
I'm talking about office. It adds a "New office document" shortcut (or something like that)

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 9:34 AM by Raymond Chen
Office is not part of Windows. They like to design their own UI elements because they want to look cool and different. If you want Office-style UI, you'll have to get it from the Office folks or write your own version. In the same way that if you want Lotus 1-2-3-style UI, you'll have to get it from the Lotus 1-2-3 folks or write your own version. (Personally, I'm glad the Office folks abandoned the "drawing the Microsoft logo in the title bar" feature.)

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:55 AM by mark mascolino
Great rant! AOL IM is the worst in this regard. Shortcuts everywhere and they add shortcuts to other AOL properties while they're at it. When ever you upgrade the client, the madness starts all over again. I am convinced a cottage industry of apps that keep the AOL icons out of your computer could be successful.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 11:54 AM by Val Savvateev
Ditto to Donald Kackman about ReallPlayer. GMan - Real wasnt that flexible at some point in the past, so I even had to do a surgery to remove that thing from the systray...

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:25 PM by John Topley
A good decision by Microsoft. This blog is absolutely fascinating, I love it! :-)

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, September 05, 2003 4:06 AM by Oleksiy Kolisnychenko
Thanks for the answer, Raymond. What's the story about 'Microsoft logo in the title bar'?

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, September 05, 2003 10:22 AM by Mark Allanson
Here here!

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, September 05, 2003 11:51 AM by Raymond Chen
You can see a picture here: http://gfloranceau.free.fr/formation/Word95/Gif/image73.gif

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, September 05, 2003 1:43 PM by Bob
"I hate those programs. " *COUGH*Windows Media Player*COUGH* :) Bob

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Monday, September 08, 2003 5:22 AM by Oleksiy Kolisnychenko
Ahh, remembered that! :))

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Tuesday, September 09, 2003 8:16 PM by Daz
I wonder if anyone has ever seen the ol' Outlook Express reappearing icons trick? (try upgrading IE - even if you are using Outlook 2K, XP etc). Funny how the IEAK was the only way you could get rid of the little buggers :p

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:14 AM by Andrew D
Great Article, Great blog - I will be coming back. My personal peeve is the way Office puts 'new document' and 'open document' shortcuts in the all programs area. If you delete them you get nagged to re-insert the original CD to re-install them. Anyway what is the point of their existance? are we unable to open explorer? are we incapable of useing file.New inside word? death to bloat.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, September 12, 2003 2:07 PM by quanta
Here here! Fortunately some programs now give you an option on install on where you want stuff to appear. And as others have noticed, Microsoft has abused the system just as much as everyone else - take Office, IE, WMP, OE, Windows Messenger...

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Tuesday, September 30, 2003 6:40 AM by Mark Hurd
The good thing about Microsoft removing "features" like this is that you can honestly say to management that it can't be done. When you can only say it's "bad form" or not recommended, they say "it's cool" or "Real does it!". Obviously the best possibility would be for Microsoft to publish its usability lab findings so we can point at something that explains why some "cool" things are not so good... Your blog is a good start anyway...

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Tuesday, November 11, 2003 6:11 PM by Cloner
For those in the mass image cloning world this enhancement causes somewhat of a headache. You can add as many "Pin to Start Menu " links as you wish when you create a master (sysprep) image and all new user profiles created get all the goodies. When an Icon is no longer required in the "Start to Pin Menu", just try and remove them globally... So much for design. Is there an easy way to remove via a software pack distribution using some unknown tool or procedure. While looking in the Registry (HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\StartPage\Favorites), I can locate the link in a REG_BINARY stored value. in order to modify or alter this on a global scale is next to impossible. Some users might have 3,4 or 5 etc links, making hard to edit/change/purge any specific value.

# RE: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Monday, December 01, 2003 7:54 PM by Charles Oppermann
After running a Microsoft Money 2003 update from the internet, part of it's routine checking for patches, etc., I noticed two new desktop icons to finanical instutions. I keep a clean system with very little software, so I'm pretty certain these were added via Money's update feature. Bad, bad, bad software!

# re: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:33 AM by LemmingBDA
Thank you, Cloner!!! I've been hunting down that bloody reg key for hours! If I can't modify the pinned lists on my users' systems, at least now I can clear them out by deleting the binary value...

# re: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, May 07, 2004 7:04 AM by serkan
i want to learn how can i program start menu, with using vbscript. for example, how can i set small icons in start menu with programming.
...

# re: Why is there no programmatic access to the Start menu pin list?

Friday, May 07, 2004 7:15 AM by Raymond Chen
That's a user setting. Programs shouldn't be messing with it.

# re: Why do we all use Wintel machines these days?

Wednesday, June 16, 2004 6:37 PM by Larry Osterman's WebLog

# Commenting on this entry is closed.

Wednesday, July 21, 2004 7:15 AM by Raymond Chen

# How to query properties of the taskbar

Friday, May 06, 2005 2:20 PM by The Old New Thing
Use SHAppBarMessage

# Why does Windows XP SP2 sometimes forget my CD autoplay settings?

Friday, June 03, 2005 8:57 AM by The Old New Thing
It didn't forget them; it's just double-checking with you.

# DivX Sux

Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:14 PM by Dan McKinley

# DivX Sux

Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:15 PM by Dan McKinley

# DivX Sux

Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:16 PM by Dan McKinley

# DivX Sux

Saturday, August 27, 2005 12:18 PM by Dan McKinley

# Why can't you programmatically reorder the items on the Start menu?

Monday, June 19, 2006 10:00 AM by The Old New Thing
The power would be used for evil more often than for good.

# I bet somebody got a really nice bonus for that feature

Wednesday, November 01, 2006 10:00 AM by The Old New Thing

Bad ideas that nevertheless came to fruition.

# New Day? (Vista and Office 2007 Launch)

Saturday, January 27, 2007 2:40 AM by Rambles In The Brambles

I attended Microsoft's launch of their new operating system (Vista) and their new version of their Office suite (Office 2007), in the LA Convention Center. Both products look shiny. I had participated in the Office beta, and like what they...

# Nested fly-out menus are a usability nightmare

Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:07 AM by The Old New Thing

And not just for novices.

# Where did my old friend the SBS Console go in SBS 2008 (and EBS 2008)?

I requested of both the SBS and EBS development teams for them to add back into their respective Start

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