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Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Saturday afternoon, my phone rings.

"Hello?"

"Quick! We're on our way to the nursery. Do you want to come?"

I recognize the voice as one of my friends who recently bought a house and presumably is doing some spring landscaping. But I have to answer fast. Time for a snap decision.

"No."

My friend seems surprised that I give my answer so quickly.

"Oh! Well then! Bye."

If you tell me I have to answer fast, you shouldn't act all offended if I give a quick answer.

Published Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:00 AM by oldnewthing
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Comments

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:18 AM by Roger
"Sorry, no" ?

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:46 AM by 8
Given that women can usually think fast (even far ahead), and men usually respond positive to the idea of seeing nurses, you answered like a girl too.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:56 AM by Michael J.
>  "Sorry, no" ?
It is longer by two syllables without providing any additional information.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:58 AM by intersense
briefly and directly.I like

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:18 AM by PatriotB
Well as long as the friend wasn't also expecting a baby, you probably made the right decision.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:20 AM by Nish
Your friend's answer didn't seem as if he felt offended or anything. Looks like you are reading too much into it, Raymond :-)

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:34 AM by aidan_walsh
>> Your friend's answer didn't seem as if he felt offended or anything.

It may have sounded more offended over the phone. Emotional context can sometimes be a hard thing to get across in text when you're quoting directly.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 11:37 AM by Mirko
When calling, some people tend to chatter for minutes until they come to the actual purpose of their call. I know of the importance of small-talk etc. But i usually like to know what's up right away.

I had a friend once, who was really irritated by my question "Hey, what did you call me for?". That was after minutes of 'time-theft'.

Callers should not expect to find their opposite to be in the mood or to have the time for small-talk. I agree with intersense: briefly and direct.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:17 PM by Seth McCarus
Nurses?  Babies?  These people were going to buy plants.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:34 PM by Eber Irigoyen
in cases like that, responding with another question is the safest bet

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:18 PM by Roger
>>  "Sorry, no" ?
>It is longer by two syllables without providing >any additional information.

It lets the other person know you appreciate their offer. Also its good manners.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:31 PM by oldnewthing
No time for niceties. They said they needed an answer instantly.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 2:54 PM by Scott S.
How does that saying go... "you can get the wrong answer fast, or the right answer slowly"

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 4:23 PM by Ray Trent
Another case of an engineer not understanding HIIP (Human interpersonal interaction protocol).

Anyway, the correct answer isn't "Sorry, no" either. It's "No thanks, I'll catch you next time".

This conveys several additional critical bits of information. A) I appreciate you asking (whether or not that's true it's part of the protocol, kind of like an ACK). B) I'm not snubbing you. C) Ask again, because I might have a different answer  on a different occasion (again, it's an ACK, not an in-band information carrying utterance).

Also, I can't resist pointing out that this response is more optimized even for the case you think you're in. If they're *really* in a screaming hurry, they can violate the protocol themselves and hang up after hearing "no".

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 5:17 PM by fschwiet
"No thanks, I'm already here"

(wait for their surprised pause to end)

"And they're out of plants, you should just go home."

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:11 PM by Jay B
I can only guess that the person who called you was a woman.

A man would not answer "Oh! Well then! Bye." if they posed the question in a hurry.  They would answer something like "Ok cool, later", or "WTF man.. you should go", or "Dude, I need your opinion, come on"  (Modified by your local social slang)

And what's with the whole quick thing... if they can't pull over long enough to give you time to think about it, they don't really care if you go.  What, did they have a list of people they wanted to ask, so they couldn't spend the extra few seconds?

Also, I rarely ever answer "no", unless I'm either in a formal setting where slang isn't acceptable, I'm correcting someone, or I wish to convey a strong negative (slightly less negative than "no way").

I usually favor "nah" as in "nah, maybe later", or "naw" as in "Naw man, screw that".  "Naw" is the slang equivellent of the strong negative "no" conveys, but I only really use it at the start of a sentence.

My response to the quick response would have been "ummmmmmmmmm... nah" :)

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 6:23 PM by oldnewthing
The person didn't literally say, "Oh! Well then! Bye." I was just trying to convey the tone of voice, which was a sort of shocked "How rude!".

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:57 PM by steveg
Have you learnt anything, grasshopper? Next weekend when the same friend asks "We're going to the hardware store, do you want to come?" what are you going to answer?

And has your friend learnt anything? Maybe s/he won't ring at all...

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:17 PM by Roger
"No time for niceties."

Well if you consider the person a friend there always should be :)

"They said they needed an answer instantly."

OK, but instantly or not, it really doesnt take that long to add a "sorry" or a "thanks".
Cartainly less time than it would take to blog about it or apologize later on.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:18 PM by George Bailey
So how does it feel to have a dozen kibitzers on the minutia of your everyday life? It'd give me the creeps ;-)

"George, you should have nodded when he gave you the 'chin lift' ack."
"Yeah. And how could you not hold the door open for the third person as well?"
"What kind of a way is that to hail a cab??"
"Pizza? Come on George, you're not that young anymore."

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:35 PM by Maurits
So many people make the mistake of asking "Do you want to %s" when what they mean is "I want to %s, join me or I will be offended >:("

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:27 PM by Brian
my ex pulled that all the time.
her: "are you hungry?"
me: "no, not really"
30 minutes later
me: "why are you in a bad mood?"
her: "because I'm hungry and you don't want to go eat"
me: "huh?"

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:29 PM by Michael J.
> Anyway, the correct answer isn't "Sorry, no" either.
> It's "No thanks, I'll catch you next time".
>
> This conveys several additional critical bits of information.
> A) I appreciate you asking (whether or not that's true it's
> part of the protocol, kind of like an ACK). B) I'm not snubbing
> you. C) Ask again, because I might have a different answer on
> a different occasion (again, it's an ACK, not an in-band
> information carrying utterance).

a) I do not appreciate. Or maybe I do. Or maybe I don't know do I appreciate or not. I just don't want to go right now, and "no" answers your question.
b) I am not snubbing you, I just answer the question you asked.
c) I might have a different answer next time. This possibility is not excluded by "no". If I wanted to opt out from going to nurseries I would have added "I hate nurseries".

>> No time for niceties.
> Well if you consider the person a friend
> there always should be :)

Even if a friend gets offended, he will still be a friend (I talking about real friends). I would not mind losing an acquaintance who replies with "How rude!" to a neutral and informative "no". Go screw with other people.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 2:01 AM by zzz
Why can't Messenger or Outlook just let you specify that you're a programmer and that the person you're communicating to is your gf/lawyer etc and then translate your "no" to something eloquent.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 4:47 AM by John Greenan
Can I offer another slant on this?  I'm a native English speaker; I have been reading the old new thing for ages.

I understood the point he was making about going to a nursery to buy plants and offering a quick, terse answer when asked to do so.  
But how many people did not understand that and thought about children at a nursery or nurses.  Even if some of the responses are joking, doesn't this show something more instructive that perhaps Microsoft and others can learn from? I'm not offering a world shattering insight, just the view that when IT people talk, although there is a common language of VB, C++, Java, SQL etc etc.  there is often a lack of comprehension of the underlying message or meaning.  So, perhaps one good thing would be for Microsoft to hire non-American English speakers of varying degrees of ability to review documentation and help files for international portability.  I don't mean the little things such as the Engligh "labour" and the American English "labor", but sometimes the message is culturally specific in a way that does not translate.  Just a simple idea "an idea from out of left field".  I know that's about baseball, but do you expect a C++ developer in Beijing to know that? Or a DBA in Kazakhstan? Or whoever, wherever?

I guess this can be summarised as "internationalisation is not just translation, but endeavouring to ensure consistency of understanding of meaning".  Now, if Microsoft could offer something to do that, that'd be cool...

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 5:22 AM by Stephen Jones
----"No time for niceties. They said they needed an answer instantly."----

Raymond, are you really an autistic sociopath, or are you just playing devil's advocate?

What they mean by a quick answer is "don't spend half-an-hour thinking about it".

You are supposed to express interest in their landscaping and what plants they are buying and then reluctantly decline. If they know you are a programmer, and thus hopelessly lacking in the social graces, then you might just get away with "Oh dear. I'm terribly sorry but I don't think I can manage it at the moment. Thanks awfully though." It will still be considered unacceptably terse, but you may be forgiven.

Never come to the Arab world. You'd offend the whole country before you got through immigration.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 8:06 AM by Jorge
Maybe "No" is too rude, but how can something like "Oh dear. I'm terribly sorry but I don't think I can manage it at the moment. Thanks awfully though." can possibly be "unacceptably terse"?
I'm afraid I lack the social skills to chat about plants for two full minutes just to answer a simple question.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 9:19 AM by Joe Butler
She probably thought you called her a 'hoe' - which, I understand, is rather derogatory in the US, and explains the unexpected reaction.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 9:21 AM by Ken
> Never come to the Arab world.
> You'd offend the whole country before you got
> through immigration.

Funny - I was just thinking how the people in our Israel office often think we Americians are too polite and indirect.  This could explain a lot.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 10:28 AM by Jack V.
What Stephen Jones, but with tact :)

When they said "Quick!" did they sound like they were going to hang up in eight seconds because they were catching a train, or like they were just saying "I'd love to chat, but I can't write now, we should leave in 10 minutes"?

If they're friends, you can hopefully ask them :)

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 11:03 AM by oldnewthing
They needed a quick answer because they were *already in the car on the way to the nursery*. In fact, as I later learned, they were just a few blocks from my house when they called, so a quick answer was in fact urgently needed.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 12:21 PM by Michael J.
> but sometimes the message is culturally
> specific in a way that does not translate.
> Just a simple idea "an idea from out of left
> field".  I know that's about baseball, but
> do you expect a C++ developer in Beijing
> to know that? Or a DBA in Kazakhstan?
> Or whoever, wherever?

Russian version of MS Mail 3.0 had menus translated, but American icons left. So people were staring at this thing sitting on a pole trying to understand what was it: an empty soda can on a pole? A red-haired parrot? Or something else? If you still cannot get what I am talking about it is a mailbox. In most European countries mailbox is a box with a slot labelled "Post" or similar. In Sweden it is usually yellow (Raymond should know), in Russia they are blue. Changing a can on a stick to blue box would be real localization. But MS decided not to go this far, and next version of Mail (or was it first version of OE?) did not have icons on toolbar at all ;-)

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 2:35 PM by Trey Van Riper
I would have been tempted to answer:

"Sunspots!"

It's 2 syllables to Raymond's 1, but it's a complete non-sequitur that would have bought me slightly more time before giving the real answer.

On the other hand, if (as he says) they really needed an answer, I would have in effect caused them to make the decision for me... which probably would have resulted in 'no'... but without the offense (just some irritation).

Of course, after years of taking a little while to think carefully through most questions posed to me, most people have learned not to demand a quick answer out of me.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Friday, April 07, 2006 2:51 PM by J
"You are supposed to express interest in their landscaping and what plants they are buying and then reluctantly decline."

The whole point of them asking for a quick answer was to avoid small talk like this.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Saturday, April 08, 2006 12:09 PM by Stephen Jones
----"I was just thinking how the people in our Israel office often think we Americians are too polite and indirect.  This could explain a lot. "-----

Israelis are notoriously rude. Whether this is a result or the cause of New Yorkers famed ill-manners is moot.

Arabs on the other hand are famously polite. It used to be said that when you crossed the Allenby Bridge from Jordan to Israel you went from the politest country in the world to the rudest.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Saturday, April 08, 2006 4:38 PM by Steve Hiner
I've long had a saying:

"If the answer's now, the answer's no."  

I know it's not gramatically correct and all but it gets the point across.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Saturday, April 08, 2006 6:25 PM by Rikard
About that "nursery" thing John Greenan brought up: I've heard the word before, but it wasn't until after reading some comments I started suspecting that someone might not be having a baby. (I thought it a bit odd to have a friend call on their way to the hospital and asking if you wanted to come along. Particulary as the answer was no.)

I'm Swedish, btw.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Sunday, April 09, 2006 5:00 AM by silkio
I agree, if someone is rushing you then they can't expect a well thought-out answer back in return. Nevermind the fact that most people won't like to be pushed or pressured like that.

Either they stop the car and wait for you patiently, or they don't bother calling or at least don't get upset when your response is curt.

Totally agree.

# I totally agree with the first answer

Monday, April 10, 2006 5:08 AM by Siderite
Are you debating if male engineers should consider the feelings of their male friends here? The first answer was the best. And if the friend can't take it, he is not tech enough. Besides, buying babies from nurseries is boring.

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:32 AM by ::Wendy::
You're way too considerate.  How could you miss that opportunity to 'um' and 'err' and 'waffle' on for ages about nothing in particular tht's vaguely relevant or ask lots of tangentally relevant questions that might irritate the person in a hurry - which nusreryt?  why did you chose that nursery?  what type of plant's are you looking for?  why?  have you considered.... etc

Do I have any friends?  obviously not  ;-)

# re: Sometimes you just have to make a snap decision

Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:57 PM by Michael
This is more to Michael J than Raymond...

"No." is not acceptable.  It's basic social etiquette.  Geeks (yes, I'm generalizing) have a hard time understanding that, because logically, "No." makes perfect sense.  It's direct and concise, and answers in the manner they indicated was desired.

However, unless you're communicating with some of identical mind, it's the wrong thing to do.  People (in general) don't expect it, don't want it, and will be insulted by it, no matter what they expressed beforehand.  No amount of rationalization on your part can change their behavior.  Knock yourself down a peg and learn how to socialize with the majority of humanity, because for better or worse, they're here to stay.
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