John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

strik — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:13:49 GMT

Same as with the Dell Laptop disclaimer when you start it for the first time. - at least, it was with the Latitude D410 some years ago. I don't know if newer ones have the same:

There was a legal disclaimer you had to acknowledge. I did not acknowledge the first time, as I did not have the time to read everything. Thus, I switch off the Dell instead.

On next boot, I did not see the disclaimer anymore.

Thus, I never accepted it, right?

You people just aren't creative enough, or don't have cats

JohnFx — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:50:33 GMT

As described in "The Agreeable Cat", you simply need to construct a device to enable your pets to agree to accept all EULA type agreements.

http://www.ohesso.com/essays/essay006.htm

I'm sure you could find a way to get the cat to pull that sticker off the Heelys. Catnip, perhaps?

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

PaulCam — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:22:11 GMT

Older versions of Windows (and many computer games) also had a similar problem. A EULA sticker (you break it, you agree) was placed on the CD case in a manner that would force you to break it in order to get at the contents. Unfortunately, no one ever thought that a user might simply take the CD cover off of its hinges and open it from the other side.

oops.

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

me — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:24:49 GMT

PaulCam:

At least, for Germany, this is not really a problem: A license agreement you see only after you have already purchased the item would not stand in court. You must know everything before you buy it, or the license is void.

Note that you must not return the item if you do not want to accept the license: Just use the item as if this agreement was not there in the first place.

Simple, isn't it?

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

alt-92 — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:57:54 GMT

That is why companies also put their EULAs and terms of use online.

Dutch courtrulings consider this to be an acceptable alternative.

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

me — Sat, 27 Jun 2009 23:37:50 GMT

@alt-92:

In Germany, most lawyers do not consider this an acceptable alternative. Everything that gets part of a contract must be known to both parties in advance. If the customer has to lookup a web site (how can he if he wants to buy his first PC?), this is not enough. The seller must tell him before the contract is made.

Note, however, that there is one difference: If you get the EULA before downloading something, this is acceptable. Thus, for example, MS giving its security updates and presenting an EULA, this EULA is considered valid.

It is not very easy. However, the fine print: Shrink-wrapped EULA are not enforcible in Germany.

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

Oorang — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:35:42 GMT

Yes well, just because they wrote it on a sticker doesn't make it so. Turns out, that just declaring something loudly doesn't make it hold up in court.

Heck even things that get signed don't always hold. I can remember back in the 90s a few people I knew getting non-competes thrown out because they basically prevented the person from working in the industry at all.

Lesson: "An agreement has to be legal to be valid."

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

Oorang — Sun, 28 Jun 2009 14:36:14 GMT

Yes well, just because they wrote it on a sticker doesn't make it so. Turns out, that just declaring something loudly doesn't make it hold up in court.

Lesson: "An agreement has to be legal to be valid."

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

Robert Synnott — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:14:55 GMT

In most cases, as far as I know, at least in Europe, any agreement absolving a manufacturer of responsibility when their lethal product injures people is very dubious.

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

Random832 — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 16:25:08 GMT

So in Europe people aren't allowed to freely choose to take risks? Because if the alternative is that the product cannot be sold at all (because no-one is willing to sell it), that's essentially what it becomes.

re: John Swansburg deftly declines the fine print disclaimer on his Heelys

Matt — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 18:46:11 GMT

The whole thing is silly anyway. If it ever comes up, all you have to say is "Yellow sticker? Mine didn't have one. Someone must have fallen asleep at the factory. Or maybe they were returned without it." Good luck to them trying to prove you wrong.