PTaylor's WebLog

Thanks, but the damage is already done.  How many folks from

all over the world have already walked away from this software

mad as heck?  Retail stores embarrassed all over the world selling

"Deluxe" software off the shelf leaving folks shaking their head as to

how such a product is even allowed to be sold the way its running.

no matter how much of a super computer you have or just went

and bought.  Parents giving this to their kids at Christmas and/or

birthdays only to be embarrassed when their kids complain about

how bad it is.  Its been so long now since the release, how many

people from all over the world couldn't care less at this point if it

ever gets fixed.  You know, that feeling you get after spending alot

of money and feeling ripped off.

Shameful !!!

Man. Weekends always bring out the mental midgets for some reason.

I'm very excited about this patch. I also don't know a single person who has "walked away" from FSX yet, and the entire world figured out that posts shouting "NOBODY LIKES ____ PROGRAM ANY MORE, IT'S DEAD" are pure exaggeration designed to browbeat developers.  How's it feel to be stuck in 1999, Saito?

~V

No kidding.  

I love every minute of FSX.  Yeah, i am throwing 10-20 fps (depending on region) but you know it's a huge step in many ways from FS9.  We already know that FS9 is crazy good especially with a few namely addons.  So if I hit a spot on FSX where things are rough I jump on FS9.  

Fact is, like it's always been said, this software is developed for machine of today and beyond.  The GPUs that were released this week will gobble up FSX.  Not that you have to buy one of these but the old news cards (or soon to be...give it 6 months) will also rock the FPS.   I see a GTX in my future.  FSX will have no problems.

Any way, I can't wait for the SP1.  FSX already rocks. It's performance will only rock more.  I would rather have an early release like it's current state than to wait until now to get a retail version of FSX that is "100% complete".  The current retail version is great as it is.

Bman

Nice, Phil.  Thanks for the update.  Continued success with testing.

Regards,

Jim Karn

Me, and a good chunck of the sim market.  You left that part out.

Don't worry Phil, you still have a small band of merry supporters.

The ones that like playing with tweaks more than they like flying.

Well Saito, I'm getting 22-25fps 90 percent of the time or better with FSX.  By today's standards I have a middle-of-the-road system:

Core-2 duo E6600@2.4Ghz  (not overclocked)

Nvidia 7900GS video card (not overclocked).

Most of my settings are middle to high.

My only "gripe" as far as FSX performance goes  is the occasional stutter on final at some airports.  I'm hoping SP1 (and/or the DX 10 patch) will resolve that.

My other gripe?  Those annoying abrupt wind change directions that cause you to spill your coffee all over the cockpit.  This problem has been around since FS 2000.   Maybe on the next version...

Bob

Out of respect for those that enjoy FSX, there will no longer be any

more comments from me.  It is getting repetitive.  I've said most of

what I've had to say.

A new Flight Simulator is something I look forward to every two or three years and I, for one, am glad that the bar was raised in terms of hardware requirements this time around.  

FSX looked good on my old system that I bought three years ago with sliders set down for performance.  I bought a $200 midrange card 6600GT a year or so ago and FSX was playable and looked better than fs2004.  Now, on my shiny new system (also with a midrange card - 7900GS) it's spectacular and once again, the sliders aren't maxed out.  I'm sure I'll upgrade my video card again at some point when DirectX 10 is midrange, and it'll look even better (provided FSX supports it).

I'm sure some people just want to max everything out and expect it to be smooth sailing on an older system, and if they did that with the same systems on other current games, they would have the same experience.

The fact that you tweaking FSX to get better performance and load times with SP1 is something to be applauded.

Well here is a response to all the cynics (and I say that will all due respect) that don’t believe FSX can run smoothly in its present state. First let me say I have been enjoying Flight Simulator 1.0, which was way back in 1982. Now I realize some (maybe most) of you might not have been born yet in 1982, but I can tell you that in the past 25 years, Microsoft, Bruce Artwick and the rest of the talented people who have giving birth and nurtured FS to the series it has become, fully realize that a program like FSX is designed and released for “today’s” PC’s. While I can’t remember the first setup I used to play the early version of Flight Simulator was, but my most recent PC (which my 12 year old “inherited”) before  I spent the money and now fully enjoy FSX, was an AMD Athlon 1.2 with 1GB RAM and a 512mb AGP video card. It looked good, but ran real SLOW!! I was only getting maybe on a good day, 10 to maybe 19fps. So I recently bought an Intel Dual Core E6600 with 4GB Ram and a GeForce8800gtx. Now…looks great and runs great!! Now before everyone starts screaming, yes, I am lucky to be able to save some money and get the best today had to offer. For just about $3000, which includes a great 22” LCD, I am able to use FSX like it was intended. Beautiful physics, great scenery, everything smooth (no, not “maxed” out) but steady frames at 35-45 consistently. No stuttering, nothing like a 2/3 year old system. With a Service Pack 1 coming soon, things will only get better. If you haven’t seen any screenshots for DX10 yet, which will be here someday, trust me, and then things will be unbelievable! While I am not asking you to stop whining about how terrible the product is, just know the history of Flight Simulator, and remember where “we” came from and look at where we are today. You will be amazed and enjoy it even more. While it is a great “game”, it is a pretty realistic views of real life flying, and yes you need the “latest” to really enjoy it. I know it is not a real life multi-million dollar simulator like the “real” pilots use, but this awfully close folks. Enjoy the flights.

Thanks Phil.

A question about SP1 and HT.

I understand you're providing dual core support but there were issues with HT.

Does your team suggest that users with a dual core and HT (such as the Intel 840EE processor) DISABLE the HT function in the bios?

Regards,

Bobby

There always seems to be progress... and anything that get s blogged here at the moment is being passed onto all the FS forums around the place. I am sure that people are being informed so it is excellent to see SP1 is not far away..

Top job to your team Phil

I do appreciate being kept posted on this.  For me, SP1 is the make or break for FSX.  Like many, I am very disappointed with it.  Having purchased most other versions since the initial FS, FS95, FS98, FS2000, FS2002, FS2004, FSX is by far the worst "out of the box performance" for me yet.  And personally I equate the irresponsible, intentionally misleading "minimum system specs" advertised on the box on the same level as software piracy.  That's where the rub is.  If you're going to release software for "today's top of the line and tomorrows hardware" that's fine. But at least be honest and let the consumer know this before they buy.  Or at the least don't say anything...but to out and out post unrealistic minimum system requirements to entice sales is boardering on fraud.  The legal beagles however say it's okay for large companies to cheat consumers like this (i.e. "let the buyer be ware") but it's not okay for consumers to cheat large companies.

Most people in the flight sim community were aware that when FSX was released it would require a top of the range rig to do it any justice.  I bought the deluxe version and I'm very happy with it.

Most are turning down the settings in FSX to try and increase fps but I found the opposite is true...Turn up the graphics, it's seems to perform better.  I run at high settings with aircraft at ultra high, light bloom turned off for the most part and I average 70 fps.

E6700, 2gig ram, 7950GTX graphics card and Asus mobo.

Thanks Phil for keeping us up to date with the developments for FSX, SP1 can only enhance the playability of FSX

Thank you very much; I appreciate your teams work and look forward to the Service Pack.

Bobby

I have been keeping an eye on this blog and threads as I am hoping to get a new PC soon and wish to run FSX on it. Phil, thanks very much for the open and honest information you have been giving, I am very pleased to hear that SP1 seems to be nearly ready, sounds like my new machine should hopefully work ok.

My 2c worth on the whole performance issue:

1) I think FPS can be important. I remember many (too many!) years ago running the SGI flight simulator and being astonished how much better fine control could be at 60fps than 30fps when I got a chance to try it on a better workstation. The collision checking on that sim only bothered with the centre of the plane so one of my favorite pastimes was banking a 747 with one wing embedded in the ground ;-) Difficult at 30fps but much easier at 60...

2) It is straightforward to overload functionality and quality on a product so it runs too slowly on current hardware. I hope the development team accept that they might have got the image quality vs. performance balance slightly wrong with FSX.

Look forward to running FSX with SP1 and hope you continue the good work with future versions as well.

Cheers

Thanks for the update Phil.  Keep up the great work.  I enjoy playing FSX as is, and look foward to any perfomance boost.  

For those that compain about how this game sucks and doesn't perform well, isn't that why there is a DEMO you can download before you buy. After playing the demo I knew exactly what I was going to get, so there is no excuse.

I have a AMD X2 6000+ with 2 GB of RAM and 7900GTX card and I have no problem running this game at 1280x1024 32-bit.  But I am anxiosly awaiting the release of SP1 to take advantage of my dual-core CPU. Phil, what other tweaks other than performance/multi-core can we expect in SP1?

Keep up the good work.

Saito48

Just an FYI I'm one of those "small band of merry supporters" who really likes FSX.  Is it perect? No.  Is there ANY software out ther this is perfect? Again no.  This is a good program and it will get better, so if you don't like it quit your whining and move on to something else.

Thanks for keeping us posted Phil. Appreciate the openess and hard work you guys are showing.

I hate to whine, but guys... Check out the "recommended system" part on the FSX box like CajunRon said. AFAICT, with a 1GHz CPU, you would end up watching a 2 fps slideshow!

I expect new games to take advantage of new systems, but with these many settings and such, they should perhaps give more aid on the benchmarking side of things. (SHIFT+Z is nice, but a fps graph at the end of an automized test-run would be better and more useful when comparing systems)

We need to know how much

o  upgrading GPU

o  adding more CPU cores

o  bumping up CPU clock

o  increase memory

o  switch OS (32-bit XP vs 64-bit Vista anyone?)

helps. It is expensive to just "pick one" and bet good money on it being the decisive factor in aiding FSX performance. Personally I'm headed towards more cores and an increase in clock speed.

Specially now that SP1 changes the playing field. (With SP1, adding more cores might actually accomplish something)

IMO, Saito is perfectly in his right to complain and his complaint is totally valid, but bombing this blog with comments is the wrong way to achieve anything.

I've played FSX on a Duron 800 with a GF 4800Ti and it plays very well with the graphics turned down (but still above absolute minimum).

Naturally my quad core and BFG8800 GTX system plays the game a lot better (and by that I mean it has more eye candy for the same frame rate), but what it won't do is play on the Duron 800 with the same settings as I have on the quad core...

Therefore the minimum spec on the box is correct in my opinion.

FSX is a fantastic game and I appreciate an expensive upgrade was required to play it the way I wanted it (or the way it was intended), but it does play very well on low spec PCs too.  Looks like poo, but plays very well :)

Cheers.

I am running an AMD X2 with the cores ramped up from 2200 to 2450 however, this doesn't make much difference, the GPU is doing most of the work with the CPU cores humming at little above 20% capacity. While i can get good frames (around 40) with low settings, increasing sliders has a big effect on how the GPU performs . I would like to see the CPU cores working harder!.

First thanks Phil for the Update. It´s like a second Christmas for me to play the game like it should ;-)

@Saito48

I am an hardcore Flightsim Pilot since Sublogic´s Flight Simulator on the Commodore c64 and every version of the past had it´s errors and performance issues (maybe FS9 was the release with the fewest errors) . I think we all make errors and should we all forgive errors if they are fixed?

Sure we bought this game but this SP is FREE. You don´t have to pay for that.

ACES spent many many Years/days/hours to accomplish this Masterpiece of software which is simulating the whole World and this is very difficult to code on a PC.

For example a professional Flight Simulator for the Air Force or several Airlines do not simulate the whole world but only the Mission relevant Terrain and parameters and it shows the Terrain in much worser graphics.

So not only to you but to all Complainers. Please stop complaining. We know all that you are not amused about that. If you can´t live with that, take the game, sell it at eBay or put it in your software shelf.

Do you have in project to upgrade FSX for SLI & Crossfire ?

ooOOoo: interesting observation. One of my cores is running at 100%... Have you disabled any CPU gouging option along the way? (If so, I'd like to do the same!)

First off......My heart goes out to all those poor souls who have suffered tradegy at

Virginia Tech University and to all the families and friends who are suffering with the

absolute incredible pain of losing a loved one.  This literally breaks my heart in every

way imaginable.

Rapsta,

You had to open up a can of worms......

You don't think I don't know about the hours and dedication that it takes

to pull off something like FSX?

But they screwed up.  I am disappointed (pissed off actually).  The worldwide gaming

market, with the exception of a dedicated few, are disappointed also.  I wonder how

the investor feels seeing every day go by losing lots of money as more & more interest

in this software dwindles.  You think something like a SP1 is going to bring back ALL

those customers that have already said "forget it"?

From a customer point of view, seeing the incredible screenshots that were totally

amazing, trying out the demo only to see it was slideshow on my old computer

despite what the minimum requirements said, and reading everywhere thats its going

to take one heck of a rig to run this software, I was ok with that.  I had in my mind, that

to get what I see as advertised, to see this as an investment to AID in real life VFR

(look at the 1st letter in VFR,.......... VISUAL (the word visual is key) Flight Rules pilot training,

I was going to have to.... not minding at all spending an additional $2000.00 to get what I

see there.......as advertised.  After loading FSX , after spending a ton of money on a new

rig that runs every other piece of resource hog "today's top of the the line games which are

used today as gaming engine benchmarks" at 80-150 fps, I was........uh.......lets say, disappointed.  If I wasn't currently in real life VFR pilot training and looked at this software as an investment, which by the advertisement it sure looked like a good investment, I would of long ago given up on this software.

Is that kind of customer the mainstream market?

And thats also why I said if I was an investor these programmers would be looking

for employment elsewhere.  I could not as an investor trust or AFFORD BIG DOLLARS AGAIN for

another big mistake like this on another project that was supposed to be a biggie with my dollars.

And thats also why I said, SP1 will reel back in some customers, but the damage is done.

You opened up this can of worms Rapsta..........your rant is typical of those that are

currently puckering up.  Squeeze dem cheeks buddy.

Hopefully, this will be enough so I don't have to post again.

I've been a big fan of Flight Simulator clear back to the first versions running on Radio Shack's TRS computers.

I'm looking forward to the Service pack but I have to agree with the critics on this one...Microsoft really blew it. I purchased FSX the minute it hit the shelf. Hours later after running the program, I was completely disappointed. With an AMD 4400+, Nvidia 8800GTX OC card, 2GB ram, 400GB hard drive, and Vista I am barely able to squeek out 18fps leaving SeaTac airport. And that's on low detail settings which don't resemble in any way the cool images on the box and website used to promote the product. FS9 with MegaScenery set to high-res detail and AutoGen at max detail races along at 60fps (and it looks more like the promo pictures for FSX and FSX does).

Why is FSX a down grade in performance? Shouldn't a newer program perform even better especially considering hardware improvements such as SLI and Dual Core processors?

People keep saying FSX is designed for tomorrows hardware...but why would you design a program for a computer that doesn't exist? XBox and Playstation don't do this. Their games take full advantage of the systems they run on and perform well.

My machine is high on the performance scale and yet it can barely handle the game. I really don't understand. If you want to take advantage of tomorrow's computer, why not design it to run well on today's hardware then release an enhancement upgrade when tomorrow's computer arrives? Who want's to wait a year and spend hundreds of dollars more in upgrades to run a program they bought today??

Ok I'm off my soap box but I really hope the point sinks in to the folks who make this software...make it work well on today's hardware. I'm sure thinking twice about buying future versions.

Saito48, when you say your done posting, then are promptly back doing it again a few days later with the same drivel, you have no credibility once so ever.  No one made you post except your own inflated sense of self importance. You have no facts to support your arguments. In fact sales figures, fan sites, and your continued bitter , desperate posts to the contrary tend to point to the total inaccuracy of your statements. I am sure as soon as you read this, you'll be back, probably with more of the same prattle, along with some speech as to your right to defend yourself.  Problem is, no one will change their minds in your favor when you continue to behave like a six year old. I for one am completely done reading anything with your name attached.

Grow up.

PS Don't bother logging in under a different name to reply in support of yourself. It's an old trick, and rarely fools anyone.

Have another drink Moe.  Your blabbering makes no sense at all.

Thank you for keeping us updated.  Looking forward to the patch, allthough this software runs pretty good on my system as is. It will be interesting to see what happens after the patch.

@Saito

Hmmm, I don't seem to think he's been dinking. Seems pretty literate to me. I understood him perfectly. Apparently you did not.  Congrats, I think you just proved his point. LOL

Aww, leave the kid alone. It's pretty obvious it's just some misserable kid who gets his kicks from jerking chains.  Ignore him and he'll go away after a few more posts.  It's not like kids like this doin this kind of thing is new or original. We all know responding to them just makes em worse. I have been ignoring him for awhile. It's not hard. just don't read anything with his name on it. makes the whole blog experience so much better. It is quite clear that the child has issues. responding to them in any way will just give him the uncontrollable urge to do it more.

Some of you folks are posting about personalities, their faults and defaults

"according to the world of Garp".

I'm posting about the quality of software, customer satisfaction, and so on.

I'd rather hear about that, than having to sidestep weirdos that don't have

anything really of value to contribute.

@ lyn

Your right.  lol, look at that, he just hangs out making personal attacks and trying to intimidate PT_Taylor.  Then tries to justify it by making the same repeated statements over and over like repeating it makes it true.  It's a shame. These guys work so hard to bring us this flight sim, then they work even harder to fix it in the ways we ask them to, then some kid comes along and spams up the blog with constant attacks on anyone that posts anything not in agreement with what he says.  It's no wonder most of the developers havn't been posting much about what's goin on if this is what they have to deal with.  If he really wanted to make comments on the quality of the software, then one post would have been sufficient, but I think your right lyn. just some kid with problems. ignore him sounds like good advice.

As for this "Saito" character.....I do understand his frustration....but only to a certain point. I've been a Flight Simulator fan since Flight Sim 98. Yes...the constant quest for playable frame rates does tend to get a little old sometimes.

But Saito... you've got a choice. If I see a bad movie, I might tell my friends that I didn't care for it....but I surely wouldn't stand outside the theater and try to evangelize every poor soul to agree with my "minority" point of view. It's too bad that you had a poor experience with this software...really. I've had similar experiences with other products. My solution is to vote with my wallet.......If I don't like a product, I just choose not to purchase that product again.

As for the argument of disappointed parents / kids on Christmas....most never take the time to read the minimum specs. (Most probably wouldn't understand them even if they did!) Sad fact of it is this: the average computer user is technically illiterate at best.....most using machines that can barely run Excel, let alone a graphically intensive simulation.

And the "Worldwide Gaming Market".....Gamespot rated it 8.4 (Great), Gamespy.com says..."There's no denying that Flight Simulator X is going to be one of the best looking games the PC has ever seen, but it's nice to see that Microsoft has done more than just slap a fresh coat of paint onto the series. ".

PC Gamer magazine seemed to enjoy it as well.

How about the "Investor"?!?!? Do you actually know anything about investing??? If you did, then you'd be aware of Microsoft's very positive stock history, number of splits, P/E ratio, market capitalization, ect .......I'm not too sure that Microsoft has "investor issues".

Seriously, Saito ....this was not intended as a personal attack and I apologize if it came off that way. It's just that your argument lacks any real facts to support it. A history of strong sales combined with a large,  dedicated following of simulator enthuasiast like myself seems to speak for itself. Your continued presence on this forum only cheapens your attempts at building any credibility.

Best Wishes to You!

Dear Mr. Taylor and Saito48,

First off, congratulations on an outstanding piece of software.  The new features and graphic engine are amazing.  I will say that I am running an Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 on an ASUS Striker Extreme Motherboard, with 800Mhz Corsair Dominator RAM, and a BFG 8800 GTX.  And yes, I do not get amazing FPS.  Am I surpirsed? No.  Am I angry? No.  It has led to me not running the simulator as often as I normally would, but knowing that a Service Pack is on the way to fix these issues, I am content.  I am not at all angry with the performance.  If I set the sliders a little lower than maximum, I am able to get very decent frame rates.  And I'm sure that anyone else who has purchased this software, with a system that meets the minimum requirements, should understand that they should be happy with minimum performance.  FSX is an amazing piece of software.  I can not understand why so many people have negative things to say about the software.  It looks great, even when the sliders are not maxed out.   I feel that many, and especially Saito48, do not realize that FSX is an immensely complex simulation engine.  They fial to realize that your tiny CPU has to run hundreds of calculations to accurately represent how an aircraft flies.  It must calculate ever input you make in order for the aircraft to respond correctly to what you are doing, in real time.   At the same time, it must also render and load textures, decide where, and what kind of autogen to place, render the weather, control every single AI aircraft, and run your OS.  I am a student at the Embry-Riddle campus in Prescott, studying Aerospace Engineering and Aerospace Science.  As an engineer I understand the immensely difficult task of calculating the different physics of aircraft, even simple things like coefficients of lift.  To think that this must all be coded to just simulate aircraft movement, is bind blowing.  At ERAU, we use simulators for some of our flight training.  The computer that runs the simulator is gigantic.  Much more than any home user would have.  And when it comes to graphical detail, there is  none.  Just a flat surface that looks like ground, and a few mountains as landmarks.  The scenery only goes for about 20 miles around the airport before disappearing.  And all this for only one aircraft to simulate.  Now, to think that one piece of software, FSX, can simulate any aircraft, detail the ENTIRE world, and have amazing graphics, and run on a home pc, that is amazing.  Not to mention extremely complex.  Saito, you talk of current games that are used as benchmarks getting 80-120 FPS.  I agree, I get those sort of FPS when I play games like F.E.A.R., and HL2.  I get over 300 on occasion in CS:S.  But most of the rendering done in those games is done by the GPU, not the CPU.  There is no complex code involved to make your character run and turn when you tell it too.  There is very little physics involved in those games, and therefor very little for the CPU to calculate.  If you were to sit down, and just think about how complex an aircraft is in real life, then you would understand how hard it is to try and simulate that on a computer.   I just do not understand how anyone could have been disappointed by FSX.  Even on low settings, it looks, and acts better than FS9.  Perhaps with a few addons FS9 also looks pretty good, but right out of the box, FSX is amazing.   I have never once opened a piece of software to find that it didn't have a few bugs that would later be worked out.  I have also never seen a software maker show medium quality screen shots of their software, so that people with midrange systems wouldn't be angry when they couldn't run at those settings.  People need to understand how complex FSX is.  I do not feel that the ACEs team has let anyone down.  I do have my gripes, especially at the wait for the DX10 patch, but it's something that I'll get over.  FSX is a major step forward in the MSFS genre.  I congratulate everyone involved on it.

Dear Mr. Taylor and Saito48,

First off, congratulations on an outstanding piece of software.  The new features and graphic engine are amazing.  I will say that I am running an Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 on an ASUS Striker Extreme Motherboard, with 800Mhz Corsair Dominator RAM, and a BFG 8800 GTX.  And yes, I do not get amazing FPS.  Am I surpirsed? No.  Am I angry? No.  It has led to me not running the simulator as often as I normally would, but knowing that a Service Pack is on the way to fix these issues, I am content.  I am not at all angry with the performance.  If I set the sliders a little lower than maximum, I am able to get very decent frame rates.  And I'm sure that anyone else who has purchased this software, with a system that meets the minimum requirements, should understand that they should be happy with minimum performance.  FSX is an amazing piece of software.  I can not understand why so many people have negative things to say about the software.  It looks great, even when the sliders are not maxed out.   I feel that many, and especially Saito48, do not realize that FSX is an immensely complex simulation engine.  They fial to realize that your tiny CPU has to run hundreds of calculations to accurately represent how an aircraft flies.  It must calculate ever input you make in order for the aircraft to respond correctly to what you are doing, in real time.   At the same time, it must also render and load textures, decide where, and what kind of autogen to place, render the weather, control every single AI aircraft, and run your OS.  I am a student at the Embry-Riddle campus in Prescott, studying Aerospace Engineering and Aerospace Science.  As an engineer I understand the immensely difficult task of calculating the different physics of aircraft, even simple things like coefficients of lift.  To think that this must all be coded to just simulate aircraft movement, is bind blowing.  At ERAU, we use simulators for some of our flight training.  The computer that runs the simulator is gigantic.  Much more than any home user would have.  And when it comes to graphical detail, there is  none.  Just a flat surface that looks like ground, and a few mountains as landmarks.  The scenery only goes for about 20 miles around the airport before disappearing.  And all this for only one aircraft to simulate.  Now, to think that one piece of software, FSX, can simulate any aircraft, detail the ENTIRE world, and have amazing graphics, and run on a home pc, that is amazing.  Not to mention extremely complex.  Saito, you talk of current games that are used as benchmarks getting 80-120 FPS.  I agree, I get those sort of FPS when I play games like F.E.A.R., and HL2.  I get over 300 on occasion in CS:S.  But most of the rendering done in those games is done by the GPU, not the CPU.  There is no complex code involved to make your character run and turn when you tell it too.  There is very little physics involved in those games, and therefor very little for the CPU to calculate.  If you were to sit down, and just think about how complex an aircraft is in real life, then you would understand how hard it is to try and simulate that on a computer.   I just do not understand how anyone could have been disappointed by FSX.  Even on low settings, it looks, and acts better than FS9.  Perhaps with a few addons FS9 also looks pretty good, but right out of the box, FSX is amazing.   I have never once opened a piece of software to find that it didn't have a few bugs that would later be worked out.  I have also never seen a software maker show medium quality screen shots of their software, so that people with midrange systems wouldn't be angry when they couldn't run at those settings.  People need to understand how complex FSX is.  I do not feel that the ACEs team has let anyone down.  I do have my gripes, especially at the wait for the DX10 patch, but it's something that I'll get over.  FSX is a major step forward in the MSFS genre.  I congratulate everyone involved on it.

Man. I think this blog has transformated into a forum. ;-)

@jpdpilot182

I agree with you in every point.

I only have one point to add.

M$/ACES has done it absolutely right in my opinion to go to the community. I´m glad to have the chance to communicate with the devs directly. There are not many companies on the Game Market where you get the chance as Home User to do this (perhaps only Ascaron with Dark Star One for example or Blizzard Entertainment with WoW). Microsoft at last have opened their curtain for us and I think we should thank them for that with constructive improvent comments and not with whining wish-wash.

Don´t get me wrong. Criticism is absolutely right. And I didn´t meant to trivialize the Problems that we actually have with FSX, but Constructivity is the key for getting most of the problems done.

Man. I think this blog has transformated into a forum. ;-)

@jpdpilot182

I agree with you in every point.

I only have one point to add.

M$/ACES has done it absolutely right in my opinion to go to the community. I´m glad to have the chance to communicate with the devs directly. There are not many companies on the Game Market where you get the chance as Home User to do this (perhaps only Ascaron with Dark Star One for example or Blizzard Entertainment with WoW). Microsoft at last have opened their curtain for us and I think we should thank them for that with constructive improvent comments and not with whining wish-wash.

Don´t get me wrong. Criticism is absolutely right. And I didn´t meant to trivialize the Problems that we actually have with FSX, but Constructivity is the key for getting most of the problems done.

Good news........

I am encouraged......

Last night, I spent an hour or so researching the net for anything I could find that

would give me any hope because I am in agreement with everyone that this sim

coulda woulda shoulda be awesome.  But my gripe is far from awesome at this time

as I am sure its now apparent to everyone.  However.......

UNTIL...............I came across this program called FSAutoStart and then the DOS days

came back to me remembering that shutting down every unnecessary background service,

idle processe or any programs running for nothing that resources will be freed up.  And

we are all aware of resources FSX needs despite one core on your cpu having a nap

while FSX runs.  So , the results........(even Lyn Talbot will want to read on)

First my specs......results at the end (Hint: I'm pleased)

AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+

eVGA 7950 GT KO 512 GDDR3

2 gigs 533mhz Dual Channel ram

First, the FSX.CFG file.  I did very little there. Only thing I changed was....

TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=400

FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.50

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, the video card.....

Highest quality setting

Anisotropic filtering set to MAX settings

Anti-aliasing set to MAX settings

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next, the FSX game settings.......

[GRAPHICS]

Target Frame Rate:                             36

Full Screen Resolution:                       1280 x 1024 x 32

Filtering:                                            none (I let the vdeo card driver handle that)

Anti-aliasing:                                      unchecked  (I let the video card driver handle that)

Global texture resolution:                    Very High

Lens Flare:                                         unchecked

Light Bloom:                                      unchecked

Advanced Animations:                       unchecked

[AIRCRAFT]

Global settings:                                  Very Low (and it still looks great)

High Resolution 3-D virtual cockpit:   checked

Aircraft casts shadows on grnd:         unchecked

Aircraft casts shadows on itself:          unchecked

Aircraft Landing lights on grnd:         checked

[SCENERY]

Level of Detail Radius:                        Large (MAX)

Mesh Complexity:                              100 (MAX)

Mesh Resolution:                                1m (MAX)

Texture Resolution:                            7cm (MAX)

Water Effects:                                    Low 2.x

Land detail Textures:                          checked

Scenery Complexity:                         Extremely Dense (MAX)

Autogen Density:                              Extremely Dense (MAX)

Ground Scenery Shadows:                unchecked

Special Effects Detail:                          Medium

[WEATHER]

Global Settings:                                  Ultra High

Cloud Draw Distance:                         60mi  (Lowest setting)

Rate of Weather change:                    Low

Cloud Detail:                                      Select Detailed clouds w/ MAXimum coverage

[TRAFFIC]

EVERYTHING OFF

----------------------------------------------------------

Drum roll please.......

the results................

I am pleased.  No matter where I fly, whether over land, water, and/or cities....

I get 25-35 rock solid FPS

(with just about every setting on max including video card settings)

ALL SERVICES, PROCESSES  AND PROGRAMS, INCLUDING ALL ANTI-VIRUS.

ADWARE & SPYWARE KILLERS RUNNING IN THE BACKGROUND MUST

ABSOLUTELY BE SHUTOFF/DISABLED !!!!!!!

(FSAutoStart will help alot in doing this for you.  Google it, you'll find ithe program)

Given these results with the modest hardware I have, I am quite pleased.

But I will be even more pleased when that second core on the CPU is put to good use.

.....and no, I am not a nice person, nor will I ever be a nice person.  I am a complete jerk

and its all about me.  NOW, does that make some of you.... (I don't know what to call you)

.....happy that I said that?

Well thanks for sharing your experiences Saito.

I don´t know if you have an Account at Avsim (probably you have one ;-)). I would suggest that you post it there too.

The URL is

http://forums.avsim.net

There are many Flight Sim Enthusiasts there who share their experiences in this forum.

I am happy with FSX, yes I have upgraded CPU and GPU, but I have done that with every iteration of flightsim.  Like many I have been unhappy with some of the performance characteristics of X and I am glad that the SP is going to address these, and I am hanging out for them.  Also threads on forums like Simviation have been vital in getting my system running well and I know that Phil from time to time has added content to those discussions.  In fact I should say it is those threads which have kept many people with FSX who might otherwise have reverted to 9.  Contributors like NickN and others have taught me more about my computer than I ever knew.  My request though is please don't stop with the first Service Pack.  I am sure that SP1 will be a great boost, but let's have a series of SPs which not only help turn X into the outstanding sim that it can be, but also be a great testing ground for the next version.  I for one don't care too much about Adrenaline or Train sim - I am a long, long-term customer for flight simulator and I would hope that you would want to keep me, and thousands of others like me.

Is SP1 released yet?  Do any of you have the SP1 beta file to pass around to the rest of us?

You know, to the paying customer that has already paid and is currently feeling ripped off?

You would think thats the least Aces could do for those that have already paid for the product.

After all, Phil taylor and his merry band of screwups have our money, so why shouldn't

we get it?  We payed for it.

All of us have already BOUGHT THE BETA.  We all have been BETA TESTERS since its release,

and now that they have our money, its a "too bad so sad" attitude over at ACES....JUST WAIT !!!!

BE PATIENT!!!!

What a bunch of horse poop.

(goto the AVSIM forumns and read the insanity there.  Want to see angry customers with the

desire to stone the ACES company with FSX dvds?

forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=121&topic_id=388851)

(remind me never to buy anything ever again from these people releasing bestas as final products

on STORE SHELVES !!!)

Thanks for the update(s) Phil - I can't tell you how much I love the product already...and I can't wait to get the sp1! Too cool.

To put my two cents in, I just have no idea why there are so many harsh complaints posted, any reasonably new dual core machine with discrete graphics and FSX looks and works great! And this from a user who's been with you guys since 3.0

So, keep your chins up Phil & Team - this user thinks FSX as-is is fantastic, and I can't wait for the service pack, too (really, I can't wait, e-mail me the link, I'll be a beta tester...I'll sign nything, NDA whatever, please...really!)

Sincerely, a true FS nut,

HollywoodPatGB

Again with the attention whoring, eh Saito?!? Are you Bipolar?

First you're not happy....then you're getting 25-35 fps...not your bent again.

Please for the sake of humanity, get back on your meds.

You act as if you speak for the whole sim community. I don't see a lot of support for your pathetic little rantings. What is your real purpose here? Is your job at Dairy Queen so boring that your only outlet is to come here and try to make waves. You only succeed in making yourself look like like the jerk that you say you are. (good observation by the way.)

Hey genius....per your request..."Don't ever buy another Microsoft product!"

Cheers!

By the way, Phi...

Great product! I've enjoyed every hour I've played since it's release....and I'm looking forward to many more to come after the release of SP1.

Best Regards,

Bryan

By the way, Phil...

Great product! I've enjoyed every hour I've played since it's release....and I'm looking forward to many more to come after the release of SP1.

Best Regards,

Bryan

I WANT DX10 Update PLEAAAASSSSEEEEE...i have 2 DX10 cards, can't wait to play FSX in DX10 mode......maybe you can post dx10 public alpha or beta tomorrow

K'com Phil, why don't you post the damn beta?  Everyone here has payed for the darn thing anyways.  The way I look at, if we already payed for something, we should be entitled to have it.  And what  good is the beta to anyone if they don't own a copy of FSX in the first place?  Just holding it back, making customers that have aready payed for the product to have to continue to WAIT and BE PATIENT (using your words) is just you being an ass.  Customers already have had their patience stretched enough already, don't you think Phil?  Or are you going to continue the trend and just keep on pissing off customers?

If you hand us a beta and we accept it as a beta there is no problem.  The only problem we have had up to now is SELLING a beta telling customers its the final copy and putting that on store shelves pretty much takes the cake, then all this horse poop of keeping betas from those same paying customers MANY MONTHS after the release.  So my advice phil, give the customers what they payed for.

Ask me if I have ever seen anything so ridiculous?

Saito you're a bore.  Please take a deep breath and a long walk.  I have just completed a flight from Nelson NZ to Rotorua NZ in the FSD Navajo (a type I flew in real life) over GeographX mesh (38m I recall) and topo, locked at 34fpm, completely smooth, and with only the occasional micro-hitch.  Framerate hardly stiirred off the locked amount - and I still had my anti-virus running and internet connection.  Believe me I am not the only one getting these results.  Everybody should read the forums, and not only tweak the settings in FSX but clean up their hard disk and registry.  If I am any measure, I was running a very badly organised setup which clearly was chewing up resources.   Yes I want the SP, and several of them, and the DX10 patch ahead of schedule.  Indeed like Aberforth I would prefer the DX10 patch first.  I would be happy to have it in beta - after all my Nvidia card is still running on beta drivers.  With all these I will hopefully be able to fly with most sliders maxxed, but right now it is just fine.  Put the work into making your system run well and enjoy the benefits.

And if one follows the thread, Saito, it is clear that you do not read, or respond to the posts of others.  Your jump in as if nobody else has commented.  Particularly those posts that tell you that there is a large number of people enjoying X and getting a great experience.

Some people may be fools, but it is wise not to open your mouth and prove it.

i've got no problems running FSX in ultra high @ 1600X1200 so i don't have any complaints....but i do want DX10 visual update soon and some addon goodies... :)

I recently built my new production rig and for an entertainment break launch a very playable FSX (everything maxed out) from a RAID 0 stack of 4, 15Krpm SCSI drives with 16MB cache each running off a dual-channel SCSI 64-bit PCI-X controller card with 256MB cache.  FSX runs off the 64-bit Vista Ultimate partition of my boot drive and the system  is powered by a Quadcore Extreme, a GF8800GTX, 4GB of Corsair memory, force-feedback joystick, and a 500w 5.1 sound system.

I'm currently limited with nVidia's latest Vista driver only offering a maximum 1600x1200 32-bit setting at this time for my Sony 24" widescreen CRT (which I always run at 1920x1200 on XP)  but I can't wait for the upcoming SP1 performance patches, the DX10 upgrade, and the Adrenaline expansion pack arriving later this year to really push my new hardware and the graphics realism.

I hear that Adrenaline will allow us to invite a co-pilot to tour in our flight cabin and so I was thinkng of first inviting Saito48 for a real multithreaded, DX10, force-feedback, surround sound, FSX joyride to loosen him up a bit and perhaps shake some more change out of his pockets!

I can't thank MS and its hardworking FSX team enough for the pleasure it is to entertain my out-of-town guests by taking off virtually in an executive jet from Seatac airport, touring Seattle's eastside and Mt. Rainier while explaining the sights below, and then landing back at the airport before taking them out on an actual drive through the area just seen.

Goood news Phil!

Atleast I am happy! I run fsx great under great settings and it looks great to!

( http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=112393 )

Images

I can get 30 fps on most places with bloom on and I did notice a HUGE difrrence when I clocked my E6600 to 3.4 ghz  I got a 10 fps boost and way faster loading speeds reducing blurries! current specs:

|| Core 2 Duo E6600 @3.4 ghz || Nvidia 8800GTS @ Core 600 Mem 900 || Kingston 1024MB DDRII ram || Asus P5B deluxe mobo|| Arctic freezer 7 pro|| And yes I do love Hawaiian Airlines because they have style

Can't wait for the SP1 guys, but Aces already did it for me :D

Getting towards the end of the month Phil... I gather you should have good news soon ?

Phil

EXCELLENT NEWS. I am sure all dedicated Flight simmers will be appreciative on the SP1 release.  Please don't think that the likes of "Saito48" represents the true simmers of this world because he is not. I am always thankful for guys out there that are always willing to assist and help others even if the request seems a very simple task. The easiest way to deal with moaners such as this guy is to simply ignore them, they soon give up and go away. We really don't need negative comments such has been posted.

Wings737

I'm so much contented with the way FSX runs on my PC (my specs: AMD 3800 Dual Core, 1 GHz DDR2 RAM, GForce 7300 GT 250MB). Believe me, with all options at ultra-high I got as much as 30++ fps on the average with less dense areas and 16++ fps on very dense sceneries.

It's a matter of how you manage your systems resources. Just make sure that before starting with FSX, DISABLE any antivirus monitoring on the background. EXIT all unecessary programs that maybe present on the taskbar because these tend to eat-up some very precious memory resources that you may be needing to run FSX smoothly.

C'mon Phil, how's progress?  On schedule? End of the last week of April. or the first week of May.  Hint, hint, please.

I have an AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 5200+ which blows away your CPU. twice the onboard ram you have, a much faster frontside bus than your MB, way bigger L1 & L2 caches on the MB also,  and 3 times the videocard you have with twice the amount of ram your card has.  All antivirus not even loaded on bootup.  I don't even load the system.ini nor the win.ini, all non-Microsoft programs disabled on bootup, and any XP services not required to run FSX are disabled.  All drivers are the latest drivers.  The HDD is defragged so that FSX is right close to the MFT and its the first thing thats accessed on the HDD.

And even with all that, if I were to put everything on ULTRA HIGH as you stated, thats the fps numbers I would get.  And even with those low fps numbers, that 30 fps is not even a smooth 30 fps.

AFTER 7 MONTHS WHERE MOST OF US WERE TRICKED INTO PURCHASING A BETA VERSION OF FSX OFF THE STORE SHELVES, COULD YOU PLEASE GIVE US THE APPARENTLY WORKING COPY OF FSX THATS CURRENTLY IN THE BACKROOM, OR DO WE HAVE TO KEEP ON WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING AND WAITING.......FOR SOMETHING WE ALREADY PAYED FOR.

For amusement:

Question of the day?

How many of you are anxious for my vacation to end?

smartradio,

Ever try with settings completely off?  With everything shutoff in FSX, I get anywhere from 75-135 fps.  The effect that the smoothness gives, there is a really neat 3D feel to it.  Try it, the 3D effect with that kind of smoothness is pretty cool.  Panning around goes almost as fast as turning your real-life pumpkin. Unfortunatly, the scenery........well, its non-existant.  Makes VFR flying very difficult to almost impossible with those settings.  But to get the really cool 3D effect, lowest settings possible is worth experiencing, but after awhile the total lack of scenery becomes too much of a compromise.

Ok, Ok, OK, I'm outta here.  Until FSX is fixed, its online poker for me.

Later today, its outside in the sun reading pilot training manuals for my flight instructor license.

After dinner, its 2 hours of real-world flying.

Phil, what are you doing today?

Yep......that settles it.......

Saito is definitely Bi-polar. Yelling up a storm in one response...and chatting calmly about the "cool 3D effect" in the next. Time to request an increase of his meds.

http://www.healthcentral.com/bipolar/drug-information.html

Call your doc, Saito!

Cheers!

Your expertise on the subject, including links even, is normally associated with someone thats had first hand experience.

It's called "Google".....try it sometime you Tard.

Hello,

I'm impressed with the potential of the new FSX however, I'm disappointed that I spent $1800 on a new computer and still cannot experience what it brings new to the table. Hopefully the new SP1 will fix the issues I have.

This is my Hardware:

AM2 5000+

2GB DDR800

Two 250GB SATA2, running Raid0

8800GTX 768MB

I can handle any game on the market with sliders set to full, however with fsx I can barely get past medium settings without getting more than 10FPS!!

Granted, I have a dual monitor setup running it 2056X1??? Resolution however, switching to single monitor only yields another 2 FPS.  

Looking forward to SP1!

Great info on the updates. Can't wait....can we expect any updates for SLI configurations? I'm sure the multicore support helps tremendously as well as having a DX10 card w/Vista.

We are all waiting wth bated breath for SP1 that may, under the best case scenario, provide a 20% performance improvement.  So instead of getting 18 fps, we will get 21 fps on our $3000.00 computers.

So, we are baically waiting to be disappointed all over again.

Intel E6700

2 GB DDR2 800MHz Dual-Channel

2x 500GB SATA2 - RAID 0

GeForce 8800GTX 768MB

Congrats on getting to Beta2, I'm drooling in anticipation for SP1!

I've been focussed on real-world work for a few months, so I haven't spent as much time in FSX as I'd like; and there was also this thing called Stalker :-)

Anyway, I just thought I'd check out FSInsider today and ka-wow! SP1 is close! w00t!

As for stock FSX I've always been impressed, even with my current rig.

For those desparing, I fly with:

Athlon64 X2 4600 (939 chipset, 2.5 yr-old MB)

4GB RAM DDR400 (generic brand, running as 2Gb dual-channel)

Nvidia 7800GTX 256

Creative Xfi

350Gb SATA-II main drive

350GB SATA-I data drive

dual-boot XP SP2 / Vista

Samsung 24" LCD @ 1400x1050

apart from the new SATA drives, and swapping X2 4600 for the older A64-3800 4 months back, this rig is over 18 months old. It was a mild beast when new, it's *still* a mild beast, and likely will be for another 18.

I've currently only got FSX on XP, mainly due laziness.

I get average FPS of 30-50, slowest is usuall 20-ish. Sure, I don't jam all my sliders right, but I'm really happy with the way FSX looks, and even happier with the way it flies!

To those suffering FPS hell with what seems to be good hardware, I can only say keep your rig clean'n'mean. You really don't need Desktop-TurboFrog-Frobulator2000 or XtreeemeGonkuloid9,000,000 or HappyScreenSaverDownloader&KeyLoggerv5 or Adode Distiller for that matter. My rig runs with OneCare, usually MSN / LiveMail Desktop and not much else.

Learn how to use MS Defender's startup analysis tool, and turn it all off!

FSX can benefit from a few tweaks, but for me none do as much as running a clean system without half your active RAM filled with crud.

The secrets to fast FPS in any app, be it game or (for me) CAD package is a clean system. That means - no crud, no task-tray apps, no Yahoo-Google-toolbars, no fancy UI-changing apps, no live-fridge-webcams, no 'helper' apps like Distiller, Creative, Nvidia task-tray icons. For Vista - none of the Sidebar stuff. Sure it's neat, but do you *really* want to look like you're using a Mac? ;-)

As for FSX SP1 - Top kudos to the dev team! Us true believers really appreciate all the work you put in!