Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

kevindc — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:29:14 GMT

Phil,

I don't know how many other people are having this issue or if you already know about it but in my case Acceleration/SP2 has given a lot worse performance than untweaked SP1. SP2 has cut my frame rates by about 10FPS and has given me blurries, stutters, out of memory errors. I have none of these issues with SP1. I've tried both DX9 and DX10 as well as a whole load of other configurations (eg different display drivers) but SP1 always gave the better performance. It would be interesting to know what's causing this. It can't be just me who is having this problem.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:33:58 GMT

Phil,

Just got my copy of Acceleration. Not particularly impressed.

In the first instance the Acceleration installer wouldn't recognise that I had FSX installed. I had to do a complete fresh install of FSX to get Acceleration to recognise it.

Graphics wise I don't see any great difference, maybe a very slight improvement to the frame rate, but not the percentage you were quoting.

I'm confused about DX10 though. You say it is a preview and indeed you tick a box in FSX settings called DX10 Preview. However, the manual clearly states - "DirectX 10 Support - Flight Simulator X: Acceleration uses the power of Windows Vista and DirectX 10 to deliver breathtaking graphics and dynamic environments to immerse you in the world of flight."

That doesn't sound to me like a Preview, that sounds like a suggestion that the DX10 patch was going to be something a whole lot more. So, did Aces simply fail to meet Microsoft's deadline to have DX10 graphics implemented in the game?

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

kevindc — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:35:39 GMT

sorry, I failed to post information about my system which will no doubt help you:

QX6700 Quad Core Processor at 2.66GHz, Nvidia 8800GTX, 2048MB memory, 500GB harddrive, Windows Vista 32bit.

Thanks a lot.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Mon, 05 Nov 2007 23:46:03 GMT

So, are these issues you are highlighting going to be fixed or, as you suggested in an earlier post, (bugs bunny voice) - thats all folks!

Cause if you aren't going to release a patch, please don't tell us about new issues that come to light, cause your just gonna hack us off.

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 00:11:26 GMT

ArchCarrier:

If you read, the VC lighting issue can be fixed and I tell you how.

I find it amazing you would suggest I stop blogging.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 00:27:22 GMT

Well, you've fixed one out of the three issues you've raised, well done.

When and how you gonna fix the other two?

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jerm138 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:08:15 GMT

First off...

I, for one, REALLY LIKE Acceleration! I used to only fly helicopters, and the EH101 is great, but I've now fallen in love with carrier ops too. There's nothing like grabbing that 3rd cable just in time.

However, there is one big problem (and it's probably not with Acceleration itself) that's making it really difficult to enjoy this great addon... It's the problem of FSX having a fatal error and restarting when trying to open any menu window from full-screen mode. A mediocre workaround is to exit full-screen mode with ALT+ENTER, then access the menu, then return to full screen mode when the menu is closed. Unfortunately, the very act of exiting full-screen mode causes the same failure about 20% of the time, so the workaround is far from practical.

There's a little bit of buzz around the flight sim community about the Nvidia 7-series cards having problems with Acceleration. I do have this problem, and mentioned it in other posts. I've tried fixing it several ways (complete uninstall/reinstall of FSX, SP1, and Acceleration with no add-ons, driver updates, Windows updates, removing peripherals, stopping services, stopping startup programs, changes to FSX settings, changes to graphics card settings, etc.) but still have found no solution. I've searched for an answer at Nvidia and at several other flight sim boards and found none (only other people with the same problem).

The problem does not exist on my system with FSX and SP1, but it shows up as soon as I install Acceleration. Has the team had any communication with Nvidia about this problem? (I'm not even sure it's an Nvidia problem... that's just the rumor)

I send the error report with the Fatal Error quite frequently. Do these get looked at and reported to anyone?

It would be great to know if this problem is on the Aces team radar... even if it takes some time to fix it.

Like I said, I really like this add-on a lot... I just want to be able to use it fully without it constantly crashing on me.

Thanks for keeping us updated and for putting up with all of our complaints... please don't stop blogging!

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:23:13 GMT

ArchCarrier:

At this point we are evaluating and that is all I can say.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 01:46:09 GMT

Jerm:

I replied on avsim that I notified nVidia and they were looking into this. No ETA, though.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

kevindc — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:01:17 GMT

Phil,

Obviously you don't have to comment on every single post but I was really interested to know your view on my problem. I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem as I can't see where I've gone wrong. I simply installed Acceleration over FSX+SP1. I have no add-ons at all. I was never expected any performance improvement - I didn't need any as FSX+SP1 works perfect for me. As you can imagine I was shocked when I started to get reduced performance with Acceleration.

Thanks again.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 02:17:17 GMT

Kevin:

I see both successes and problems with Acceleration at this point.

There seems to be no clear pattern to some of the problems especially the performance related ones. There is clearly a video driver issue that is causing some of the DX10 performance issues but since you state it happens in both DX9 and DX10 that might not be affecting you. I have also seen reports that some users have, after a machine rebuild, gotten the results we expect. Not that I am suggesting you do that, but that does tend to indicate a local configuration issue. With that in mind, your description does not contain enough detail to be actionable beyond these simple statements, but because I am not support and cannot investigate individual reports I do not have time to address this.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

robains — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:31:09 GMT

Phil or anyone:

Could someone tell me the prefered install route?

I have FSX/SP1 and installed Acceleration but the "blurries" low res texture radius is even smaller now than before (with Preview DX10). Also noticed that the Aircraft seem to have AA applied but ground objects, buildings, bridges don't have AA applied?

Should I do new install of FSX Deluxe and then just install Acceleration and NOT install FSX SP1?

Any hints on the best ATI 2900XT 1GB Crossfire Control Panel settings should be? For the most part I'm have the 3D settings at "Application Controlled".

Also, could I get a specific list of what I should expect to see better (visually) under DX10 Preview?

Thanks, Rob.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 03:44:34 GMT

Rob:

Acceleration will install SP1 for you if required. So that is an option.

There is an ongoing issue with AA in the drivers, and it appears to not work for FSX at the moment.

My blog post on SP2 details what the DX10 features are. What is unclear about the DX10 features?

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:16:11 GMT

Hi Phil first off just wanted to say thanks alot for all your hard work and such a great product, recently i purchased acceleration on the launch day in uk and i love it but i have one slight prob.

While in directX 10 preview mode every now i get a fatal error and fsx restarts which is very annoying as you can understand, The fault module name is nvwgf2um.dll ive also had one occurence when it was this module ntdll.dll but only happened once with this one so far but the other is really common.

my system specs are windows vista ultimate 32bit, amd athlon X2 4200, 2gb ram, nvidia geforce 8800gts 320mb, creative soundblaster x-fi.

thanks for you support in advance and i really hope this info helps to make this great game stable.

thanks, Paul

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 04:41:38 GMT

Paul:

nvwgf2um is an nVidia dll. We have notified them about crashes and we will have to see what their investigation shows.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

gwolb — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:12:02 GMT

Also having issue with DX10 mode and when going into MP mode it goes out of full screen mode, and the only way to get is back to somewhat of type of full screen is to got to window mode, maximize this window and then goto full screen mode. Then have to hide the toolbar otherwise it is displayed. This only happens when in DX10 mode. Also getting the fatal errors when running in DX10 mode also.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:16:11 GMT

thanks phil, what about the ntdll.dll??

Paul.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

gwolb — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:57:58 GMT

Another question, will these type of issues be addressed in the SP2 version that comes out after Acceleration, or will this be the same. If this is not being changed will their be any type of patch for the issues that are coming up? thanks

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 06:59:49 GMT

Hey Phil:

I've been A MS flight sim guy since the first windows 3.11 version came out. I've enjoyed some of the advancements since then. But I too Am very disappointed with the performance in this latest release. I anticipated DX10 release and what this meant for FSX. Hell I bought a Nvidia 8800 GTS (640mb)and run a dual 3.0 Pentium CPUs with the fastest 2 gig ram out there. I get studders and

frame rates no more then 16fps at New York Kennedy. Thats in Med high setting across the boards. I think the worst part about all of this is no one can give me a straight up answer is to what kind of Machine I really need to run everything at Max. If I had this info, I might have a better chance to either upgrade more, or stop trying to chase the imposable. Because in truth, I almost gave up with FS after that disastrous release of FS 2000. So please, if you haven't already posted the ideal hardware somewhere, I would really appreciate it if you could so I can end the guess work once and for all. Microsoft at least owes me that one for all the cash I spent.

Sincerely:

Steve

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jerm138 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:24:31 GMT

To everyone who is complaining about their inability to "max out sliders":

It's no secret, nor has it ever been, that FSX has potential beyond what today's hardware can handle. That has always been a staple of new FS releases, and this time is no different. That's the beauty of new FS releases... they won't be outdated anytime in the near future.

Here it is... Late 2007 (a full 4 years after FS9's release), and people are still talking about how superior FS9 is. 4 years is like centuries in the programming field. That says something! And the people who, 4 years ago, complained about not being able to run FS9 with "sliders maxed" are the ones to whom it speaks the loudest.

The people complaining today are the same ones who will be singing the praises of FSX when FSXI is released, and complaining that they can't run the new one with the same settings as before (despite the fact that the overall experience is still better, regardless of how far to the right the "sliders" are.)

You should expect no sympathy when you spend hundreds (even thousands) of dollars on hardware that's on the cutting edge, when you have no proof of what it's actually capable of. If you want to be on the front lines of the hardware arena, you go there voluntarily knowing that you could get burned. In this case it happened... and it's nobody's fault but your own.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

gwolb — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 08:25:26 GMT

Another issue with DX10, seem to also see allot of flickering on certain textures, mainly runways. Really is noticeable at Edwards AFB. When running in DX9 mode its fine, but DX10 mode it looks terrible. This does not happen on all runways, only ones with certain textures, not sure what the difference is. THanks

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:05:34 GMT

Phil,

Thanks for hinting that there may be some sort of fix in the future for the problems people are experiencing with Acceleration. My primary concern was that you'd indicated in previous posts that SP2 would be the end of FSX development.

I do not wish you to stop blogging and, to be fair to myself, I did not suggest that. Based on my concerns above I simply did not see the point in highlighting errors in code that probably wouldn't be fixed. Your reply has addressed my concerns to a degree.

Unfortunately, when you blog you have to take the rough with the smooth. As a result of other dev's blogs and your own blog people's expectations for FSX, SP1 and SP2 were raised. A lot of these expectations have not been met, in particular the DX10 implementation and performance issues. SP2 in particular seems to have raised more issues than it has fixed and as a result people are disappointed and frustrated.

I do believe that you wanted to meet these expectations and worked hard to achieve them, but my take on this is that Aces simply ran out of time and Microsoft pulled the funding for FSX. Correct me if I am wrong on that assumption, but that is what it looks like to me.

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Metalex — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:11:36 GMT

Robains,

Please looks at this thread I posted in at flightsimworld.com:

http://www.flightsimworld.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=115815&st=40

I posted some screenshots showing the differences between different combinations of AF settings.

As you're using Crossfire, I don't know whether your results will be the same for you as they are for me, but with my X1900XT the best combination for me is to use ATI CCC 16x Anisotropic Filtering in combination with FSX Anisotropic and FSX Anti-aliasing.

Hope that helps.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Cartman — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:13:19 GMT

I didn't read any issues with ATI cards yet (besides AA).

Menue issues with Geforce7 (and FS9 models) seems to happen often.

Perhaps November DirectX redist is involved too and the Crysis optimized Nvidia drivers are maybe fast, but...

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

rpernavas — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:29:48 GMT

I apologize if this has been posted elsewhere, but I have just rushed home from work to install my pre-ordered copy of Acceleration which I just received about 30mins ago in the mail.

I am now getting an error: "Acceleration requires the English version of Flight Simulator X".

I happen to live in England and I bought FSX in an English shop. In fact I don't even speak any other language than English!

What is going on? Does anyone know what I need to do to fix this problem? I am desperate to get this installed ASAP!

My FSX the Deluxe version, patched with SP1 and I'm running Vista 32bit.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:50:00 GMT

rpernavas,

I'd suggest you do a complete reinstall of FSX then install Acceleration on top of it.

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Montie — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:07:37 GMT

Hi Phil

I have a small SP2 DX10 related issue as well. First of all I get great performance using DX9 with everything maxed out. I bought the Acceleration DVD and I think all the new features are excellent. But using DX10 (Preview) makes the sim stutter like mad... I have tried adjusting the settings and turning of bloom etc., but it does nothing to the stuttering. I have a nVidia 8600 GTS and running Vista Premium 32bit by the way.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:23:09 GMT

Jerm138

I'm sorry, did I offend somebody here? Do you you work for Microsoft or something? I'm not looking for or ever have looked for sympathy. All I ask is that somebody from Microsoft be honest and straight forward about what this product can and cant do with Current cutting edge hardware of THE TIME. Not what it can do 4 years from now. To be honest, I didn't buy FSx so I could enjoy all the benefits listed and graphically reproduced on the packaging in 2011. Sympathy no...Facts..yes.

Steve

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 17:38:28 GMT

Regpin,

I agree, Jerm138 was a bit harsh and I am pretty sure that he couldn't back up several of the claims he has made.

Whilst I have no doubt that FSX has been made to be future proof for several years there is no reason why, with realistic settings and some minor tweaking, it shouldn't be running perfectly smoothly with jaw dropping graphics on a modern cutting edge pc.

The issue is that whilst SP1 provided a visible improvement, SP2 appears to be a step backwards. if Microsoft can't get reasonable DX10 performance out of one of their leading products, then there is little hope for its future.

For Jerm138 to suggest its our fault for buying up-to-date kit is out of order. Maybe its just a case of peripheral envy? ;)

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:34:55 GMT

ArchCarrier:

I couldn't agree more. Is it our fault for buying cutting edge hardware for FSX? Maybe. In truth, I do feel like a sucker. But is it Microsoft's fault for selling a bunch of misleadings on Direct X10 and the hardware that companies followed to suit. Absolutely! But I will patiently await for some answers about the Real hardware requirements. I'm sure with out a doubt FSX and direct X 10 lives up to what all the claims are but what good will it be if it only performs in some computer lab.

Regpin

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

robains — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 18:45:47 GMT

Thanks for response Phil.

For DX10 Preview I was looking for a hint on where I can find something (a coordinate/location) that would be a good demo of the DX10 enhancements.

ATI do update their drivers once a month, they're about due out for a new set (Cat 7.11) soon, but I suspect any FSX fixes might still be a driver rev. or two away. It does appear that ATI driver development is moving in the right direction as they have continued to provide improvements and better game support - fingers crossed.

I'll do a complete re-install of FSX with just Acceleration and see if that resolves some issues - thanks for the hint.

Could you provide any insight on if it is possible to fool FSX into loading hi-res textures?

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jerm138 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:53:49 GMT

Regpin,

I find it interesting that you went into a defense about what I said, when I never even directed at you.

As far as not being able to back up my claims... spend 20 minutes looking at old posts on any major flight sim board. Narrow your search results to the months after FS9 was released. A lot of people were unhappy with it because they couldn't run "max sliders."

Why do people get so wrapped around the axle about the physical location of the sliders, and then disregard the actual change in experience that the new sim brings? For the most part, FSX on low-medium settings looks better than FS9 with "sliders maxed."

I guess anybody who has anything positive to say about a product MUST work for that company, right?

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Metalex — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 19:58:03 GMT

Robains,

Did you see my reply to you regarding AA/AF settings in FSX? It may help you with your blurries radius.

Alex

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jahman — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:11:42 GMT

Phil,

While large-sized updates such as SP1 and SP2 are best left for an explicit download and DVD distribution, respectively, why not use the "Windows Update" infrastructure for code tweaks and curing minor ills such as these "Additional Issues"?

Cheers,

jahman.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 20:40:17 GMT

hey phil didnt know where to post this but i have acceleration and a friend does not and when we try and have a online flight over the LAN it wont let me join his session and when i host a session it does not show up on his fsx, so do both people need acceleration to fly online over LAN?

thanks all the best,

Paul.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:00:33 GMT

I too really don't think this has anything to do with the location of sliders? But it does have everything to do with over all experience. I agree with that point. But when a company boast breathtaking graphics and performance on a product, doesn't anyone think it should live up to the claim? Not comparing it to previous version but whats being sold NOW. The FSX web site posted eye popping graphics but in truth, has anyone experience that without performance flaws? Not one person at Microsoft could answer my hardware questions at the time FSX was released. That is my argument.

I'm in the service sector of business. How do you think my clients would respond if I told them they would get jaw dropping performance out of my services and then couldn't deliver? Or better yet, I told them I could, but not for at least another four years.

Jerm138, I think many people were annoyed with your comments. I just happened to be the first one to respond to them. When broad statements are made about everyone, you have to be prepared for the responses regardless if they are inflammatory or not. In any event trust me on this one, my beef in not with you.

I just want somebody at Microsoft to tell me what hardware I need to produce the results that are being advertised.

Regpin

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 21:56:22 GMT

PaulB:

in my blog post about Accel/SP2 I indicated that SP2 will be required to multiplay in freeflight.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:33:42 GMT

ok thanks alot phil and sorry for asking you something that you have already stated, is ntdll.dll todo with fsx or is it a vista problem?

Paul

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:47:09 GMT

Paul:

if that is in the same crash stack as the nv dll, its likely it is the same issue. we wont know for sure until we see an nVidia fix.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jerm138 — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 22:52:41 GMT

Other than the infamous "magic screenies" (which Phil has repeatedly admitted were a mistake), what exactly did they advertise that the product can't deliver? You can make it look just as good as it does in the screenshots... you just won't have incredibly high framerates. You can make it look CLOSE to the screenshots, and still have acceptable framerates (I consider anything above 20 FPS smooth, and anything above 30 FPS is useless extra.)

I'd be willing to bet that my system is nowhere near as powerful as yours, yet somehow, I am able to enjoy acceptable framerates (usually locked at 25) and graphics that far exceed FS9's.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Tenth — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:16:14 GMT

Basicly Acceleration is running great on my PC and FSX installation. One really noticable problem so is rightaway visible, when having DX10 preview activated, the aircraft lights - outside on the fuselage/wings/tail aren't visible - you can only see their light or flashes appearing on the fuselage surface - but the lights (lightbulbs are gone). If i switch off DX10 preview and restart FSX to run it in DX9 mode, all the lightbulbs are back again nice bright and colorful shiny.

Might this be somehow connected to this described VC lighting problem ?!

Anybody else experiencing the same error ??

I'm running it on a GeForce 8800 GTS 320MB graphics card with the newest beta driver 169.04 on Vista Ultimate 64bit.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Soccy — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:27:00 GMT

Hi Phil,

I encountered another bug in multiplayer after installing Acceleration:

If I'm hosting a multiplayer session and fly myself, whenever I crash or get crashed, my plane is broken when it's reloading. So I get placed back to the start position, but with broken plane, which does not react to anything.

This way the game is for me terminated and I can decide, if I want to restart the whole multiplayer session (what actually will boot out all players) or if I just sit there with my broken plane and cannot do anything for the rest of the day. This is really killing all fun and makes me think twice, if I host a session at all.

This is happening in "training" multiplayer sessions as well as in competition mode.

Hopefully will be fixed asap!

Sincerely,

Chris Tester.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

rpernavas — Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:40:07 GMT

Hopefully this helps someone... reinstalling FSX from scratch and then installing Acceleration fixed the problem "Acceleration requires the English version of Flight Simulator X" that I encountered earlier (thanks ArchCarrier!).

Time to test it out!

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:12:28 GMT

I'm Still waiting from either Phil or Microsoft to release the real hardware requirements for FSX and Acceleration/SP2.

In the meantime if you would be so kind germ139, could you post your specs on your system? That way I'll know how to tag "Close and acceptable" with a particular hardware configuration.

regpin

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jerm138 — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 01:39:10 GMT

Regpin,

Here are my vital specs:

Intel P4 3.4Ghz dual core

2 GB RAM

Nvidia 7600GS 512MB video

Windows XP SP2

320 GB HD (running at about 50% capacity)

500W Power Supply

Here are my FSX settings:

1440x900x32 resolution

Trilinear Filtering

AA unchecked (set at 4x on my video card)

Global Texture Res: Very High (maxed)

Lens flare, light bloom, advanced animations OFF

High Res 3D cockpit

Aircraft Cast shadow on self and ground ON

Landing Lights Illuminate ground ON

Scenery Complexity DENSE

Autogen Density DENSE

Water MID 2X

Detail radius MEDIUM

Mesh complexity 50

Mesh resolution 19m

Texture resolution 1m

Ground Scenery Shadows OFF

Special FX detail HIGH

Weather: DETAILED CLOUDS / MEDIUM

Airline Traffic and Gen Aviation density: 20%

Road vehicles: 0

Ships/Ferries: 11%

Leisure boats: 10%

One of the great things about FSX is that you can save graphics settings profiles. I have several saved, and load the appropriate one based on where I'm flying (city, wilderness, flatland, mountains, ocean). The settings above are my base-line settings.

My frame rates also depend a lot on where I'm flying. Obviously, at JFK, I'm not going to get 25 FPS. I never expected to, therefore, I just don't fly there. I've bought every version since 2000, and anyone who has been with FS for a while should know by now that you can't run any new version at full-tilt around a big airport/city like that... It's just an unrealistic expectation.

When I move out to places where I normally fly, away from big cities and big airports, then FSX really comes alive.

I'm not trying to start a poo-flinging fight with you. And yes, I sounded a bit too harsh with the earlier post (which, again, wasn't directed at you.) I apologize to everyone who was offended by it. I was frustrated that people who have REAL issues with the game were being overshadowed by more of the old "I can't max out my sliders" complaints.

People constantly abuse this blog as a venue to bash Phil and the team. They have dealt with it very gracefully. If you start making statements that sound like you're accusing them of false advertising, it's going to raise a few eyebrows... and you really should back up a statement like that with proof. The only thing they advertised is what FSX is capable of... they made no claim about what your computer hardware is capable of. Their product can do what it was advertised to do. If they had advertised that "you'll get x-amount of FPS with y-hardware and it will look like these screenshots"... then you would have a valid argument. The "system recommendations" on the box do not imply that you'll get excellent frame rates with that hardware.

I'm in no way implying that people should just come on here and kiss their butts... that would accomplish nothing. But this board better serves the community as a place to discuss actual problems with the program, ideas for future development, etc. People aren't accomplishing anything when they get on here and say (in a nutshell) "Phil... I'm really disappointed with this program. I used to be able to run FS9 maxed out, but I can't even get 5 FPS when I max this one out. This is bull." If anything, it will make the team less likely to want to give us open lines of communication like this.

You did, however, have a purpose in your complaint... you were asking what hardware you need to accomplish the ever-so coveted "maxed sliders." That's why I said that my comments weren't directed at you. However, if I were on the team... I'd be REAL reluctant to answer such a question, because it's a trap into the "false advertising" thing I mentioned above.

Now I have detracted from the original reason for this thread, so I will bow out of this discussion and go enjoy the simulator. Hopefully, we can come up with a list of REAL issues and solutions to improve our flight sim experience.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Regpin — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 02:44:32 GMT

jerm:

Thanks for posting your info. Believe it or not it helps . I do apologize for any disrespect to anyone including yourself. This quest for information has been an ingoing thing since the release of FSX. Mainly because I'm the one guy who really enjoys flying in crowded skies over JFK. But that is virtually imposable with my system which is pretty close to yours. If someone told me, this is what you need to enjoy all the features I'd think about it, and just do it. But nobody is saying a word. And your right, probably because their afraid to. I'm not out to accuse anyone of false advertising I just want to enjoy the sim the way I would like to and what it's capable of.

My quest is simple, info. Thats all I ever wanted. Again, I cannot Fault you for all your comments. They were well thought out and loaded with good insight.

I too will bow out and maybe some good will come of all of it.

Sincerly:

Regpin

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 06:01:57 GMT

hey phil, no this is another crash stack and this is what what was reported;

Problem signature

Problem Event Name: APPCRASH

Application Name: fsx.exe

Application Version: 10.0.61637.0

Application Timestamp: 46fadb14

Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll

Fault Module Version: 6.0.6000.16386

Fault Module Timestamp: 4549bdc9

Exception Code: c0000005

Exception Offset: 00061884

OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.256.1

Locale ID: 2057

Extra information about the problem

LCID: 2057

Bucket ID: 534027499

As you can see the ntdll.dll was the fault module in this case so wasnt sure if this is something todo with vista operating system or what?? just wondering if this isnt todo with fsx is there anyway you could pass this onto microsoft for a fix please.

Thanks again,

Paul.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jazzselect — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 15:05:11 GMT

I lost 10fps after acceleration. Getting memory errors and flickering on textures, especially on runways. Etc.

To all of you who says FSX was build for hardware that does not exists, nobody can build software for hardware that does not exists, please don't use that term!

In 3-4 years FSX will be old-school for most of us, so don't ask us to wait.

I must say I've had som beautiful moments with FSX, so I am pretty okay with the money it cost. However when spending $600+ for hardware that should atleast give me 5-10fps more at same settings, but gives me less it's not fun anymore.

My new sys:

q6700 quad

mem ddr2 800mhz 8MB

P35 motherboard

SATAII disks

8800GTX

sorry Phil, just had to let it out. see ya

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Phil Taylor — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 17:48:22 GMT

Jazz:

I have already posted that there is a driver issue that affects 1)DX10 perf, 2)menu crashes, 3)AA/AF. We will just have to wait for nVidia to provide an update.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

ArchCarrier — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 18:27:45 GMT

Phil,

Is the Nvidia driver issue related purely to FSX or does it affect other applications or games using DX10 features?

Would this explain poor DX10 performance in the Crysis Demo and other DX10 compatible titles?

ArchCarrier

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

mmaxx — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 19:19:32 GMT

Hi Phil,

Are the new jagged cockpit shadows also an NVIDIA AA driver issue ?

Has ATI the same troubles ?

Markus

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

gwolb — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 21:43:48 GMT

At least the everything works great in DX9 mode and all of the changes/additions are great in Acceleration. DX10 would be nice, but like Phil said, have to wait for some good drivers. Back to playing in DX9 mode. Thanks for all of the updates/feedback Phil, is appreciated!!!

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

jazzselect — Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:26:12 GMT

Ok, great, -so the hope is not gone after all :)

Thanks for listening to the community Phil.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 05:59:57 GMT

i noticed in dx10 preview mode the progressive taki line does not show up at all unless you goto top-down view but this problem goes away when you turn off dx10 preview??? is this also a graphics driver problem?? i love dx10 preview but just miss taxi-ing in the VC with the progressive taxi :(

Paul.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

paulb2006 — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 06:00:09 GMT

i noticed in dx10 preview mode the progressive taxi line does not show up at all unless you goto top-down view but this problem goes away when you turn off dx10 preview??? is this also a graphics driver problem?? i love dx10 preview but just miss taxi-ing in the VC with the progressive taxi :(

Paul.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

marktheimmortal — Thu, 08 Nov 2007 14:59:02 GMT

Hi, this is a question for Phil. :)

Phil: In a post on avsim you said "for 'blurries when using photo-scenery' that is one fix. and the changes in SP1 did have an affect there. note another fix for that type of blurries would be to re-author the photo-scenery using the advice in the Acceleration/SP2 SDK"

I use Horizon Simulations Generation-X VFR for UK and suffer the blurries. Are you saying that my blurries 'might' be resolved if Horizon Simulations re-author their photo-scenery post SP2?

Also you said about Nvidia issues with AA/AF. I have tried your suggestion for scenery settings (e.g. 1m, very high, lod high, etc) and other settings on minimum/off (e.g. lens, bloom, weather, ai). With these settings, close scenery is very sharp and distant scenery (2 miles out at 2,000ft) is very blurred (pausing doesn't result in a gradual sharpening of the distant scenery). I have noticed that if AA/AF is turned off then close and distant scenery is not blurried, it is all very sharp (although there is a lot of shimmering and a need for AA). What are the issues currently with Nvidia AA/AF?

Kind Regards,

Mark.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

sut101 — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:06:01 GMT

Hi,

I'd just like to comment that I also get the occasional crash with ntdll.dll using FSXX in DX10 mode. I have an ATI HD2900XT, so it is definitely not just an nVidia problem :)

So far it has only happened when I try to load some 3rd party photosceneries such as Mega Hawaii X. I suspect it might have something to do with which season is active, but I can't confirm this yet.

Any comments about the problem of "white aircraft" that many users are reporting? Most of my older aircraft have this problem in DX10 mode.

Has anyone else had a problem with scenery corruption in top-down view (DX10 mode only) at a zoom level of around 60x, give-or-take? What I mean is, random flat polygons splaying all over the place, it is really bizarre. It only happens within a certain range of zoom. The area where I noted this was at YBAF and YBBN airports. I haven't tested other areas yet.

Generally the new DX10 water is great, but has anyone tried flying over tropical water texture in spring/summer daytime in DX10 mode with bloom turned on (eg. near YBBN)? Something is not right, but I'll leave it for you to see for yourself! Interestingly, fly over the same area at dawn/dusk and the water looks fantastic.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Te_Vigo — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 05:35:57 GMT

Paulb2006,

The C0000005 error you report is indicative of RAM and or USB.

AA has been fine for me (set ingame with Application Controlled set in nVidia control panel), except on the shadows...even Vista*/ DX9 mode has some glitches but more so - horribly so in Vista*/ DX10 mode.

In the event of a Crash equalling - black screen for a few moments followed then by the BSOD and reboot... reinstall your nVidia drivers.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Pgfox — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 14:29:20 GMT

Hi Phil,

Thanks for doing a great job and keeping us all informed of the latest developments! My system specs are -

Intel P4 dual core, 2 GB RAM,Nvidia 8800GTX,Windows XP SP2 and 320 GB HD

FSX was running nice and smoothly until I loaded Accelerator - After the install I did get increased frame rates, but to my horror the scenery now "scrolls" and lacks the smoothness it once had! There are no blurries - just a horrid wave like scrolling!! It's so bad its almost unplayable. I've tried 3 complete fresh installs = of FSX, SP1 and Acceleration - but to no avail... Sadly it looks like i will have to live without carrier landings for a while and go back to SP1 only.. Please help guys!!!

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Te_Vigo — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:50:40 GMT

If you have AffinityMask=?? set in your .cfg file, try removing or disabling it

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

Pgfox — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:32:19 GMT

Te Vigo,

Many thanks for your help - sadly I don't have AffinityMask in my .cfg file.. Any other suggestions greatly appreciated!!

Paul

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

peterhayes — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 02:21:03 GMT

Phil

In both of my Maule versions in the lights section all the lights are commented out. Do we uncomment all?

Thanks

PeterH

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

adelm — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 02:26:52 GMT

Something i don't understand here:

How can MS give WHQL status to drivers that still have major bugs with MS approved games.

What is all this "The way it is meant to be played" certification/marketing buzz if MS is certifying drivers that are incompatible or miss essential features with their own games ?

the sole conclusion i'm able to come to is :

ACES isn't able to deliver an efficient engine because they did an evolution from FS2004 engine instead of just reworking it from scratch.

Hint for FSXI: One easy way to improve Flight Simulator and make its engine more scalable would be to offer to the users the ability to split the computation load accross N computers using Simconnect and let the main computer to the 3D rendering, you could even then make the xbox360 (or its futur evolution) able to render it with a "light" client.

Imagine if in community like VATSIM, each users computer doesn't has to recompute everything.. i'm sure that simconnect can be also used to the users experience advantage here too..(or even some MS/Aces servers farms).

that would be nice as most people play in real time anyway..we would basically share the same world and offload/share CPU intensive tasks..

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2

philby — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 09:14:48 GMT

For all Nvidia users, they have released new drivers, version 163.75, on the 5 November 07, will show driver date of 4 Oct 2007 in System properties under device manager.

Didn't notice much change after install pro or cons,

However bug of older acft textures showing all white remains.

Phil why has this happened. 3rd prties payware like Ultimate Traffic and My Traffic will have to make patches which I'd be surpirsed after reading their posts at their forums, we'll see before end of 2007, if we're lucky. Which is a dam shame, as I certianly get 40% or 50% frame rate gain with direct X 10 preview turned on. I am really interested why this issue did not come up in Beta testing, as isn't that what Beta testing is for? Flightone UT said they beta tested Acceleration, I'd like to know how they did it and not see this issue and let MS know.

Thanks

Phil M

Using FSX in the Future

dmbproducts — Sat, 10 Nov 2007 18:19:58 GMT

I know the blog is primarily for issues, but having read through this, and other blogs and forums.

I have decieded to follow a suggestion I have read in numerous places, to keep my copy of FSX on the bookcase until such a time when computer hardware can run it, hopefully around 2011.

In fact, I developed an algorithm to generate the projected date when MS FS products will actually be usable in the future.

In the meantime, I deceided it was time to break the shrink wrap off FS98 and install that. I hear it runs great on Quad Core and Nvidia's Flagship Graphics Card.

re: Additional Issues in Acceleration/SP2 Direct X 10

philby — Sun, 11 Nov 2007 08:14:45 GMT

Is the Direct X 10 a preview or not, if it's a preview when will the full version be avaliable?

Thanks

Phil M