ESB == SOA++???

Amen

Sam Gentile's Blog — Mon, 02 May 2005 21:26:40 GMT

ESB-SOA

Jes — Mon, 02 May 2005 23:33:52 GMT

SOA and ESB

Uber Times — Tue, 03 May 2005 06:16:09 GMT

ESB is a concept which includes a mix of technologies (messaging, connectivity, routing, transformation services, etc.) working together and can be enabled by Service Orientation.

Yes, Clemens, there is a Service Oriented Architecture

Message for you, sir! — Tue, 03 May 2005 07:01:30 GMT

re: ESB == SOA++???

Alex Papadimoulis — Tue, 03 May 2005 15:14:10 GMT

I welcome ESB as our new hyped fad.

One of the biggest problems with SOA is that it has the potential to be de-acronymed. And when you do that, it just sounds LAME. Soa. "So, uh ... what?" Yuck.

Just try to do that with ESB.

SOA Exists!

Radovan Janecek: Nothing Impersonal — Wed, 04 May 2005 23:48:35 GMT

SOA exists, it has good enough definition, and this definition helps customers to use web services. At least, by Systinet...

re: ESB == SOA++???

Sean — Sat, 07 May 2005 01:39:07 GMT

You're not wrong! ESB is NOT SO! SO is network centric, the terms will change and mature, but SO standards will rule the day eventually. ESB is Jurassic, centralized architecture with a new spin. It's still centralized, and you are totally dependent on your ESB vendor for new features and functions in the bus. I think a good analogy to ESB can be made with the POTS network versus the Internet.

In the POTS network, the communication channel is smart, clients are dumb. Adding smarter clients like fax machines only add modest value, but ultimately more sophisticated capabilities aren’t deployed largely due the enormous complexity and centralized control of the Telco. In the Internet/network model, the channel is dumb (relatively) and open and the clients are smart. This model allows for a new technologies to exploit this communication paradigm and build new systems and services on top of the base platform.

Look at the result.. we now have the web, web services, email, voip, etc.. all running over the same basic platform. Sure the platform has evolved too, but only to provide higher speeds and better reliability.

Fundamentally, centrally controlled systems (technological or even political) are not interested in change or adaptation, they are slow moving, and in fact actively resist efforts to unseat their hegemony. In the distributed network model, change occurs rapidly as it fundamentally enables new, unforeseen capabilities to be created and deployed. The network computing model has resulted in an explosion of services, technologies, products and industries to support the flow of data and applications.. most beyond the wildest imaginations of the Telco planners of old. The ultimate winners are customers because these new systems must provide some value or they won't be adopted or will be unseated by newer, more capable ones.

This may be a bit unfair and oversimplified because many of the ESB vendors have built some very compelling and capable technologies, but IMHOP they are the last generation of a dying paradigm. The last generation of a mature technology usually surpasses the capabilities of the upstart technology, but ultimately the new paradigm was designed to overcome limitations in its’ ancestors, and ultimately overcomes it.

One final analogy.. the last generation of steam locomotives where more efficient and powerful than the first several generations of diesels. Yet once diesel technology matured a bit it's superior reliability and relatively low maintenance requirements more than overcame these issues. The same will hold true for ESB.

If you need the power and stability of a mature ESB solution, then they are there, I would, on the other hand, rather work with the commodity standards to come up with solutions that will eventually overcome older, centralized technologies. Fabrics will rule the day!

re: ESB == SOA++???

jonase — Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:12:15 GMT

The S in SOA comes from Business Services and has nothing to do with technical aspects. SOA is misused by developers and should not be described as a term for "using web services".

ESBs are the best way to implement and orchestrate business services in an enterprise solution. Gives BAM, asynch dev. and EDA for free.

SOA + ESB = Future

re: ESB == SOA++???

RichTurner666 — Wed, 31 Aug 2005 03:24:25 GMT

Jonas - I agree with most of what you wrote above ... up until the statement that "ESBs are the best way to implement and orchestrate business services in an enterprise solution". I agree that ESB's are *a way* to build enterprise systems, but I do not agree that they should be the de-facto infrastructure upon which to build such systems. I can get BAM, async messaging, x-platform interop, lightweight communications mechanisms, peer-to-peer comms, reliability and security from WCF alone - no ESB in sight. Not to disparage the notion - ESB ... or, let's call it by its real name "Enterprise Integration Broker++" has it's place - just not at the hub of our enterprise systems.

re: ESB == SOA++???

slashkev — Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:30:13 GMT

i haven't worked with a modern ESB as of yet.

but, i get this impression that some sales exec sells some business exec some story of how and ESB can connect a bunch of web apps, some disparate databases, a few CICS regions, some random MQ instances handling EDI, microsoft office and their email system.

just seems like we are trying to build skyscrapers with bricks and morter.

WCF is the first concerted effort to build the foundation for an SOA, at least in the last 5 years.
remember DCE and then DCOM.
WCF looks a lot better than its predecessors, and has the potential to make an SOA work.

but, an SOA/ESB without something like WCF - i just don't see how this can potentially scale, at least in terms of being able to management a bunch of services and their communications.

so then the whole discussion of metadata repositories and services registries come up.
and you see companies like sun already trying to sell these.
registries of what web services - there are no real standards for them as of yet, in the java world at least.
i've read sun's marketing literature on their registry, and it's so amorphous, that i can't figure out what it actually does.
and i suspect it doesn't do much that is useful.

so, current SOA/ESB initiatives - seems like we are putting the cart before the hores here.

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