To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Unit Testing in Visual Studio 2005

Randy Holloway's Weblog — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 04:53:00 GMT

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Brad Wilson — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 05:12:00 GMT

As long as we get it all in MSDN Universal, then I guess we don't care. But nobody will commit to that, because it's a political decision (the "worth" of a group) that's driving the differentiation between "Visual Studio" (one group) and "Visual Studio Team System" (another group).

You know what? We don't care about stupid internal political struggles for the survival of a group. The fact is, if it doesn't ship with MSDN Universal, it will have nearly zero uptake. If you want to make it mean something, and have people use and benefit from it, then give it to them.

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Simon Hodd — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:07:00 GMT

The point is that unlike the other practices (Stress Testing, Static Analysis, Code Coverage etc) writing unit tests is part of coding, not a step that can be done later by someone else (with other tools).

Unit tests are preferably written before the code under test.

So if the MS unit testing support requires Team System, I have only two choices: Give all developers Team System or use another unit testing framework.

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Peter Ibbotson — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 11:43:00 GMT

My simple view give us unit testing, code coverage and fxCop then start differentiating. These are the bits that I'd want today. Code Coverage is one area I've been actively looking at for a while and the version in the CTP is pretty darn good.

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Robin Curry — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 14:51:00 GMT

A strongly typed compiler is also one way to increase code confidence and reduce bugs. Will it only be included in Team System as well? Of course not.

The implicit message that Microsoft is sending by only including Unit Testing in Team System is that this practice is only valuable in a team setting and/or that it's value is only significant when integrated with these other tools. This is certainly not the case.

Unit Testing arguably provides as much development value to individual development as a strongly typed compiler (and some people in the community are arguing this). It's intrinsic value has very little to do with integration as suggested in your blog post - the integration may serve to increase it's value in a team environment, but the tool itself should be put in the hands of all developers.

On a personal note, however, as long it is in the Universal subscription, I'll be fine.

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Darron — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 18:54:00 GMT

This issue seems to be quite the dividing rod. On one hand I have an MSDN Universal subscription, so I will have the "Team system" anyway.

My personal feelings are this. Unit testing support should be in all versions, whereas maybe code coverage, and all the other bells and whistles should stay in an upgraded product.

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Brad Wilson — Mon, 14 Jun 2004 22:31:00 GMT

Darron,

Who told you that you have a guarantee of getting any of the Team System Visual Studio versions with MSDN Universal? And who says that you'll be getting the Team System Sever with MSDN Universal, even if you do get Team System versions of Visual Studio? And who says that the Team System Unit Testing component will work without the server?

In my mind, these are unanswered questions. As far as I know, there has been no _official_ commitment yet on what goes where and at what cost. I think it's foolish to assume that, just because something is useful to developers, that they will get it for free with MSDN Universal.

A Few Final Comments About the Unit Testing Thing...

Geek Noise — Tue, 15 Jun 2004 07:45:00 GMT

Why unit testing in Visual Studio Team System - Again

James Newkirk's Blog — Tue, 15 Jun 2004 11:12:00 GMT

A Few Final Comments About the Unit Testing Thing...

Geek Noise — Sat, 19 Jun 2004 06:37:00 GMT

re: To Unit Test or Not to Unit Test... which Visual Studio Version?

Ron Jeffries — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 11:32:00 GMT

Integrating "the practices" is good. But agile software development is integrated by people, not by software. People become powerful teams on their own, not because they own an expensive piece of software. And //most importantly// they become teams in their own style.

It may make sense for Team System to have all the tools in one package. It might possibly make sense to have them integrated, if it can be done without defining a particular way of doing things.

But the tools, particularly Test-Driven Development, the reason why xUnit systems exist, is a grass-roots, one or two developer at a time thing. The tools belong on every developers desk -- every developer in the world, not every developer whose company can afford VSTS.

And the /process/? That definitely belongs to the team, not to some software package. VS and VSTS need to enable things, not to control them.

Providing Timely Responses

scooblog by josh ledgard — Sat, 17 Jul 2004 01:53:00 GMT