Somasegar's WebLog

PingBack from http://asp-net-hosting.simplynetdev.com/visual-studio-2010-and-net-fx-4-beta-1-ships/

When I click on the link, I am getting a "Your search did not match any products."

I access MSDN via the BizSpark program.  I've noticed in the past that sometimes folks forget to make betas available for BizSpark.  Did that perhaps happen this time, or is there a more general issue?

Hello Soma!

Thanks to you and your team for all your hard work!

I am an MSDN subscriber (BizSpark), could you please confirm that the beta will be avialalbe today for BizSpark subscribers?

Kindness,

Dan Elliott

Hi Soma!

i'm an MSDN BizSpark subscriver too, but i can't see it on available downloads, it will be available today?

Thanks

Hi Soma,

will VS 2010 support Edit & Continue on x64 machines?

Hi Soma,

I got "Your search did not match any products." as well

MSDN Professional subscriber, Taiwan

any solutions?

MSDN downloads will be available at 10AM PDT.

You guys are just a little too eager...check back in a few hours.

Hi All,

We apparently got a little ahead of ourselves here and this posted before the bits are live on MSDN. Our aim is to have them live shortly so please wait till around 1000 PST before checking the MSDN links.

I'll post back here once I know the bits are live.

Thanks,

Tony Goodhew

Developer Division

Microsoft Corp.

That's what I call East Coast Torture.

Somasegar (VP in charge of DevDiv) has just blogged that Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1 has been released

Soma Segar のブログ にてアナウンスがありました！ 開発者そして、開発チームのユーザー エクスペリエンスをさらにさらに向上させる新しい、本当に新しいメジャーバージョンの Beta1 です。 よりみなさんにとって素晴らしいツール、テクノロジーとなるよう、お忙しい中ですが、ぜひご評価とフィードバックをいただければと思います。

Thank you for your patience. We're now live on MSDN.

You can get the following products <a href="http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/downloads/default.aspx?pv=18:370">here</a>

Visual Studio 2010 Professional Beta 1 (x86) - (English)

Visual Studio Team Foundation Server 2010 Beta 1 (x86) -  (English)

Visual Studio Team System 2010 Team Suite Beta 1 (x86) - (English)

Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Remote Debugger Beta 1 (x86 and x64) - (English)

Microsoft .NET Framework 4.0 Beta 1 (ia64, x86 and x64) - (English)

Microsoft .NET Framework 4.0 Client Profile Beta 1 (x86 and x64) - (English)

Team System 2010 Test Load Agent Beta 1 (x86) - (English)

Visual Studio Test Load Agent Controller 1 (x86) - (English)

Thanks,

Tony Goodhew

Developer Division

Microsoft Corp

If you haven’t seen Soma’s blog we have just released Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta 1 to the

You've been kicked (a good thing) - Trackback from DotNetKicks.com

Bugger - Correct URL is:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/subscriptions/downloads/default.aspx?pv=18:370

Tony Goodhew

Developer Division

Microsoft Corp

I know…for all of you who came up to our booths at TechEd 2009 last week, why didn’t we say something?

Is there a readme somewhere, with gotchas and known bugs?

Does this work without troubles with .NET 3.5 and VS 2008?

Go grab your copy from MSDN downloads for subscribers . General public will get it in a couple of days

Soma, senior VP of the Developer Division, just announced on his blog that today we are releasing Beta

Can I install VS 2010 Beta 1 on the same machine I have VS 2008 without any problems?

Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta 1 ships!

Is there an x64 version of vstudio? Didn't see it in the list. Will the x86 work on x64?

Thanks,

George

Soma vient de l’annoncer : la Beta1 de VS 2010 est disponible. Vous pouvez la télécharger ici .

Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta 1 ships!

ASP.NET MVC For Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1

According to Somasegar’s blog, VS2010 and .NET 4 is available to download for MSDN subscribers . Downloading

Won't install on my XP machine :-(

Get a message that The .NET Framework version 4 cannot be installed because the .NET Framework version 1.0 is already installed on your computer.

Nice!

Today Soma announced that VS 2010 and .Net FX 4 Beta 1 has shipped. If you are a MSDN/Technet subscriber

Today Soma announced that VS 2010 and .Net FX 4 Beta 1 is available to MSDN and Technet subscribers .

Today Soma announced that VS 2010 and .Net FX 4 Beta 1 has shipped. If you are a MSDN/Technet subscriber

Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1 (Professional, Suite and Team Foundation Server) is available today to MSDN

i am not a MSDN subscriber ,i want to download vs2010 beta1  ,how to get it ?  can somebody share your download    playingapi@hotmail.com

Its been a while since I have had a chance to update so I’ve got a few things I haven’t had time to post

&lt;p&gt;Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1 がひっそり公開されてますね。&lt;br /&gt; まずは&amp;#160;MSDN サブスクリプションサイトにて公開、水曜日には一般にも公開されるようですね。&lt;br /&gt; （&lt;a target=&quot;_blank&quot; href=&quot;http://blogs.msdn.com/so ...

But no Edit & Continue when compiling to x64. And no Edit & Continue when using linq.

In case you missed it (which I don’t believe), today we released Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1 to MSDN subscribers.

Beta 1 for TFS 2010, along with VS and VSTS, is now available to MSDN subscribers and will be available

Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta 1 ships!

Hi Soma. Great job. It is already running in my machine.

But Blend 3 Preview is unable to open it files. When will a new version of blend be released ?

Thanks

Gustavo

If you haven&#39;t heard the news already, Microsoft announced the release of Beta 1 of the next major

Publicación del inglés original , lunes, 18 de mayo de 2009 a las 11:15 PST por Somasegar Hoy publicamos

Visual Studio 2010和.NET 4.0的Beta 1已经可以通过MSDN订阅下载了。周三公开下载。

Hey Soma,

I have a question about your blog you wrote the "right levels of quality and performance" Given you haven't released any type of quality products outside of SQL Server since Visual Studio 6.0 (anyone that doubt this is true just query the MSFT knowledgebase there are more bug pages related VS/.BLOAT then exists in a global yellow page phone books) and in terms of performance unless you have a bleeding edge QUAD proc box with a terabyte of ram your software has problems out performing a turtle on valium but in light of that fact can you please give us an an idea when a quality products that performs well will actually ship?

Thanks In Advance

.Mark

Here is the original link： http://blogs.msdn.com/charles_sterling/archive/2009/05/18/visual-studio-2010-and-net-fx-4-beta1-forums-now-live.aspx Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta1 Forums –Now Live

Χθες ανακοινώθηκε στο blog του Somasegar ότι είναι πλέον διαθέσιμη η έκδοση Beta 1 του Visual Studio

Somasegar’s blog posting announcing Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4 Beta 1 ships! &#160; Visual Studio

As announced on Soma’s blog , Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4 Beta 1 was made available for download to

As announced on Soma’s blog , Visual Studio 2010 and .NET 4 Beta 1 was made available for download to

Hi Soma,

When will be available public robust release of 4.0? Should I start to move my website to this beta?

Orif.

Hi Soma,

Congratulations on the beta release!

Is VS.NET 2010 beta 1 supported on Windows 7 RC?

Tom

Today, we have released Beta 1 , and it is now available for download. We encourage customers and partners

We have recently announced the availability for Team Foundation Server 2010 Beta1, which also includes

As you may know yesterday Microsoft released VS2010 Beta 1 to MSDN Subscribers. The Beta will also be

Are you (is anybody) aware of any compatibility issues at the moment that would prevent running VS2008 and VS2010 side by side on Vista?

Today, Microsoft launched Visual Studio 2010 and .Net FX 4 Beta 1 . This is available to the MSDN subscribers

Sasha/Enrico:

Just to clarify the situation, Edit & Continue is certainly supported on a 64-bit machine, provided that you are debugging a 32-bit process. Unfortunately, the necessary CLR work to enable Edit & Continue on 64-bit processes will not be implemented for Visual Studio 2010, though it will be in a future release of Visual Studio.

With Visual Studio 2008, the situation is especially problematic because the default for new projects is "Any CPU." When an executable assembly is compiled with a target platform of Any CPU, it runs as a 32-bit process on 32-bit OSes and as a 64-bit process on 64-bit OSes. Thus, if you create a new project with VS 2008 on a 64-bit OS, you cannot Edit & Continue unless you specifically change the Target Platform for the project to "x86."

In Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1, new projects are "x86" by default. This enables Edit & Continue even if you are developing on a 64-bit OS, and it helps to alleviate some of the pain "Any CPU" has caused customers writing P/Invoke code. We're very interested any feedback that you might have on this change to defaults. Please feel free to email me directly at dustinca@microsoft.com.

Kind Regards,

Dustin Campbell

Program Manager

Visual Studio Languages

Enrico:

I wanted to follow up separately on your question about Edit & Continue and LINQ. Unfortunately, Edit & Continue will still not be supported on LINQ expressions in Visual Studio 2010. It turns out that this is pretty tricky to get right, and we're planning to tackle the problem post-Visual Studio 2010. Look for it in a future release.

Kind Regards,

Dustin Campbell

Program Manager

Visual Studio Languages

This is great! Can't wait to download tomorrow.  Will the SharePoint tooling in VS 2010 include Silverlight development tools?  If so, are there any links of examples on how to create webparts and/or User Controls to include in SharePoint projects?  Thanks and good job team.

Krīze un ekonomiskā situācija Latvijā un pasaulē neietekmē aizokeāna censoņu tempus laist klajā ar vien

Krīze un ekonomiskā situācija Latvijā un pasaulē neietekmē aizokeāna censoņu tempus laist klajā ar vien

Krīze un ekonomiskā situācija Latvijā un pasaulē neietekmē aizokeāna censoņu tempus laist klajā ar vien

Всем привет! Ну вот, наконец и свершился долгожданный момент: 2010 студия с 4 фреемворком уже доступны

The Beta 1 release of Visual Studio 2010, .NET Framework and Visual Studio Team Foundation Server Beta

The Beta 1 release of Visual Studio 2010, .NET Framework and Visual Studio Team Foundation Server Beta

The Beta 1 release of Visual Studio 2010, .NET Framework and Visual Studio Team Foundation Server Beta

I've just installed the beta.  I was really looking forward to the WPF Ribbon control.  However, I can't seem to find it.  Is it included in the beta? Thanks.

Raist de Jesus,

The WPF Ribbon will not be added until later this year (if then).  They are suppose to release another preview mid 2009 and then V1 later.  You can read more about it on the WPF Toolkit Codeplex site.  Bummer! I was really looking forward to using this control, as well.

http://www.codeplex.com/wpf/Wiki/View.aspx?title=WPF%20Ribbon%20Preview

Quality and Microsoft products are two opposite words. Even in SQL Server 2008 I pin pointed a very serious bug in Query parser and asked about it in no. of forums (Even on Microsoft forums), but they even failed to address that bug in SQL Server 2008 SP1. I don't know why the Microsoft engineers don't sit back and think before writing the application softwares (Should learn from Google engineers)

Soma, Don't block my comments just because I have criticized)

I’m going to diverge a bit off the VSTO path and talk about a more generic ClickOnce story.&#160; If

As Soma announced on his blog earlier this week, Visual Studio 2010 beta 1 and the .NET Framework 4.0

La primer Beta pública de lo que será Visual Studio 2010 ya se encuentra disponible para su descarga:...

The first beta of the v4.0 .NET Framework is now available , and with it comes a lot of changes to the

Hi, I have just installed VS 2010 Beta and I cant seem to find the Smart Device templates.

Can you please shed some light on this?

Also I wasn't able to import my old smart device projects.

Thank you in advance,

Nuno Luz

Good Job.  Waiting for download to complete to get started!  Are there any hands on labs available for VS 2010?

Soma,

Thanks for reply.  I had read in a few places that SharePoint tools would not be included in Beta 1.  I was wanting to know if the SharePoint tools would also include Silverlight tools for developing instead of only ASP.NET in Beta 2/RTM release?

Also now that VS 2010 and .NET 4 Beta 1 is release, can you give us a better timeline of when Blend 3 Beta 1 and SketchFlow will be release?  

Thanks again.

it seems there is no intellisense for c++/CLI projects:/

Good Job on this release. I installed it yesterday and have been playing around with it a lot. I like the new UI (especially the ability to move code windows out of the IDE onto a second monitor). My only major concern about new UI is performance. I noticed a huge jump in resource requirements when upgrading a 30 project solution from 2008 to 2010. Almost double the memory requirement. Although, I like the WPF editor and it's features, I hope you can make it more responsive before RTM. It runs pretty pokey on a Core 2 Duo 6600 on Vista x86 with 3.25GB of RAM and FireMV 2250 video card.

Now that .Net 4 Beta1 is out, you'll see a number of posts on this blog covering new CLR features in

Is VS 2010 and .NET 4 going to have complete documentation at the release date?  .NET 2.0 caused big problems for us since a large part of the BCL was not documented apart from placeholder documentation (like output from Reflector).

Can this be complete when VS 2010 ships to production?

Input parameter restrictions (e.g., must be an open file handle) and exceptions thrown were not in the documentation.

@Dustin Campbell

FWIW, I think making x86 the default platform target is a terrible choice.  This is just going to create headaches down the road when people who are writing MSIL pure code inadvertently start shipping x86-only modules to others.  "corflags" to the rescue I guess...

I think this setting unfairly penalizes the majority (MSIL-only coders) to compensate for poor training of the minority (PInvoke coders).

I have already had to forcibly switch several new projects back to Any CPU mode after discovering they were x86 by default in VS 2010.

Why not modify the C# & VB compilers to issue a warning when a project contains PInvokes to non-platform libraries and does not have its platform set to either x86 or x64?

Hi Shaggygi,

As far as Sharepoint tools including SL support, the team understands this is an important scenario.  We will be able to share more details about what we will enable when in the coming months.

Also, as far as Expression Blend and SketchFlow goes, the teams are currently heads-down finishing up the development work.  You will hear more about these in the next couple of months.

Thanks.

-somasegar

You can take a look at the new v4.0 .NET Framework , and the changes that will be described in Shawn

Hi Soma,

Congratulations to your team.  This looks like a great product.  I look forward to testing it very soon.

-Minh Nguyen

Last Monday we shipped Visual Studio 2010 Beta 1 and .NET Framework 4.0 Beta 1 to MSDN customers, and

Durante esta semana fue liberado oficialmente la versión Beta 1 de Visual Studio 2010 y .Net Framework

We released Beta 1 of Visual Studio 2010 and .NET FX 4.&#160; If you are a MSDN subscriber, you can download

Generally, VS10 Beta 1 does not worth beta name(especially compared with Windows 7). It's more like Alpha/CTP. Still, if MS does not release VS10 too early it is going to be a great product.

I've installed it both on VMWare+XP and on laptop running W7 RC7100. Old Generic C++ Class Wizard does not create anything. Also, under Windows 7 RC 7100 I can not make simple MFC console app to hit any breakpoints even by calling ::DebugBreak() directly.

UI is lagging a little bit (it's expected for WPF). New UI is not polished. Mix of native Win32 controls in dialogs with WPF controls looks really ugly, fonts look terrible.  Rico's encantations apparently did not help and VS10 does consume memory a lot (but on small apps, maybe it is super-scalable for huge solutions).

I think I won't bother compiling our 70MB of native C++ source code under that. I am not even sure it can upgrade projects with Smart Device Configurations: Windows CE development seems to be missing completely.

@Dustin Campbell

Regarding the change of the default platform target from Any CPU to x86 - I completely agree with what others have been saying.  This is an absolutely disgraceful hack to workaround the lack of x64 Edit & Continue support.

Here's some of the bugs on Connect already regarding this:

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=455333

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=455103

Also, the feedback on Connect regarding lack of x64 Edit and Continue support is clear.  How high up the priority list is this?  See the bugs below:

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=267609

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=384453

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=431200

Hello, I am with the Mobile Development Team. I saw some comments about Smart Device Development in VS 2010 Beta 1. The current bits don't have Smart Device/ CE enabled. Our Team is absolutely committed to making Visual Studio a great development tool for the Mobile developer. For existing Visual Studio 2008 developers, we will be releasing a new Windows Mobile 6.5 emulator in the upcoming months that works with the Windows Mobile 6 SDK. This provides a great solution for existing developers.

We will deliver Mobile device tooling for Visual Studio 2010 but we can’t share details at this time.

Thanks

Amit Chopra

Jeff Brown, danieldsmith,

Thanks very much for your comments and the links to specific Connect bugs. We do realize that this is a very controversial change and one that we're definitely gathering feedback on this during the beta process to determine whether it's the right change or not. I should mention that we are already making a change for Beta 2 to default Class Library projects to Any CPU, so class libraries can be consumed in 32-bit and 64-bit processes without any change.

Adding true support for Edit and Continue to the 64-bit version of the CLR is a fairly large work item, and other features were prioritized higher due to the fact that there is a reasonable workaround in most cases (i.e. target x86). However, as the Dev10 development cycle progressed, feedback about 64-bit EnC support (and other issues, such as PInvoke problems that I mentioned earlier) increased due to more users switching over to 64-bit OS's for development. Our expectation is that this trend will continue over the coming years, and cause even more pain for customers. Since doing the CLR work is extremely risky so late in the cycle, we opted to change the default target type to alleviate what we expect will be extremely serious pain in the next couple of years.

We are absolutely committed to revisiting Edit & Continue in the next release to add 64-bit support and address other holes in that particular feature. However, changing the default to x86 isn't just to support Edit & Continue. There are many other customer pain issues that switching to x86 will address.

Again, please feel free to email me directly at dustinca@microsoft.com if you want to discuss this change in depth. I am curious to know exactly what your scenarios are, and why you specifically prefer Any CPU over x86.

Thanks!

Dustin Campbell

Program Manager

Visual Studio Languages

Amit Chopra,

Thanks for the info.  When will we be able to develop WPF-type applications on Mobile devices?  Is it available now? Mobile 6.5? 7.0?  

Also, I watched one of the Keynotes from one of the big conferences this passed year ( not sure PDC, MIX ) regarding Silverlight and Mobile development.  During the talk, there was a demo using Bluetooth technology ( I believe it had something to do with new Azure and Cloud Computing ).

This might be a crazy question, but....  Will it be possible to use the Bluetooth interface as a serial port ( SPP ) with Silverlight?  I don't think it would due to the "sandbox" scenario.  This would be nice to have, as it seems more devices will have Silverlight support and not WPF.  If this will not be supported in Silverlight, what is the plan on providing developers with Visual Studio development tools to create WPF/Silverlight type applications across many Mobile devices ( e.g. BlackBerry, IPhone, etc. )?

Thanks in advance.  Keep up the good work.

To someone that gets this error:

"The .NET Framework version 4 cannot be installed because the .NET Framework version 1.0 is already installed on your computer"

I followed these instructions and that worked for me:

http://www.dotnetmafia.com/blogs/kylekelin/archive/2009/05/21/the-net-framework-version-4-cannot-be-installed-because-the-net-framework-version-1-0-is-already-installed-on-your-computer.aspx

Hope it helps anyone :)

Dirk, Netherlands

.NET Framework 4 Beta1 has now been released. Refer to the following annoucement -&gt; Visual Studio

Hello Vyacheslav,

 "Also, under Windows 7 RC 7100 I can not make simple MFC console app to hit any breakpoints even by calling ::DebugBreak() directly."

We tried the issue you mentioned above and failed to reproduce it. Does this reproduce for a Console C++ app and a Console C# app?

I will be more than happy to work with you directly to track down the issue. Please feel free to email me directly at "aymans at microsoft dot com"

Thanks,

Fix current tools before releasing new ones.

Can't debug on Windows 7, Visual Studio 2005, ASP.NEt 2.0!

I don't care for visual studio 2010 right now.

Hi A,

    I am sorry to hear that you are facing this... I would like to understand your scenario a little better with regards to Win7, VS 2005 and ASP.NET 2.0...  

    It would be interesting to know whether you are using IIS or Cassini, is Ctrl+ F5 working etc, but as this thread is more of VS 2010 and .NET 4.0 thread I will be happy to discuss this over email or phone... Could you drop me a line at Vishal.Joshi@Microsoft.com or call me at +1-425-705-2031...

wishes

Vishal R. Joshi

Hello Ayman Shoukry,

I've filed a formal bug about C++ console app with MFC here:

https://connect.microsoft.com/VisualStudio/feedback/ViewFeedback.aspx?FeedbackID=458819

Regards,

Vyacheslav

Hello Vyacheslav,

Thanks for logging the issue. I was able to reproduce it and assigned it to the appropriate folks.

As a workaround, try removing the entry point from the project properties. That is under properties\linker\advance. That worked for me. I will make sure after further investigation to post the appropriate workaround at the bug entry.

Regards,

Ayman Shoukry

Introduction Hopefully folks have seen Soma&#8217;s and Jason Zander &#8217;s blogs announcing the availability

I finally decided to download and install Visual Studio 2010 and give it a try. The first thing I did was to generate a standard MDI application statically linked to the MFC: then I run the compiler and noticed that the Release executable (without using the new control bars, just the standard windows interfaces) is about 1300 Kb: about 4 times bigger than one created with VC++6.0 and VS2005 (300Kb and 430Kb respectively). There is no debuggin information in the executable. I noticed also the new UI has a slower redrawing performance compared to VC++ 6 IDE and VS2005: ie: I run VS2005 in a VMWare Player and it redraws faster than VS2010. Also I couldn't find anywhere the Class Wizard that was published as coming back to this release. I have Intel Core 2 Duo with 2 Gb of DRAM with nVidia GForce Graphics card and Windows XP+SP3 Pro Retail.

I would appreciate if you can post your comments about how to fix the aforementioned problems.

Thanks

Marcel

Hello Vyacheslav,

Regarding the other issue you mentioned:

"Old Generic C++ Class Wizard does not create anything."

We know about this issue and it has already been fixed in our internal builds.  We apologize for the inconvenience this may have caused you.

Thanks

Raman Sharma

Hello Marcel

> I finally decided to download ...

Thanks for taking the time to evaluate the beta and posting your feedback – we appreciate your efforts/feedback.

> The first thing I did was to generate a ...

The sizes you present are consistent with what we see ourselves for the “default demo” application (the “just click and build” scenario) when using MFC statically. Of course, we do want MFC binaries to be as “acceptable” as possible on many aspects; functionality, reliability, speed and size to name but a few. Can I ask a few questions: does the size of a “default demo” application, such as you describe above, concern you from the point of view of your “shipping” applications? Have you built your “shipping” applications with VS2010 yet? Do you ship your applications with MFC statically linked-in? This feedback would be very useful to us.  If you like we can chat about this over email, my alias is damien (at Microsoft dot com.)

> Also I couldn't find anywhere the Class Wizard...

The Class Wizard has generated a lot of interest from our customers, just look at the number of times it is mentioned on this previous blog post http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2007/08/08/visual-c-futures.aspx for example. So we definitely hear that it is a much requested feature. All I can say at this point is that not all features are in beta 1 – so do not give up hope yet :-)

Please let us know how you find the rest of your experience with the beta when you get a chance.

Thanks

Damien

Visual C++

I downloaded and installed Visual Studio 2010 Team Suite Beta 1.

After some time I decided to remove it. Removing went well, but after that MSVS 2008 (SP1) has stopped working! Required msvcr (t) 100.dll etc.

We had to re-install MSVS 2010 Beta 1.

How do I remove the Visual Studio 2010 that it should not be harmed my MSVS 2008?

Thank you.

hi orange,

I am sorry to hear that you've had some issues running Visual Studio 2008 SP1 after having installed and uninstalled Visual Studio 2010 Beta1.

I would like to understand your situation more. Please collect your installation logs by following the steps on heaths' blog:http://go.microsoft.com/?LinkId=8967044

Then send me the vslogs.cab.  Email to: aaronru at Microsoft dot com.

Thanks

Aaron Ruckman

Visual Studio Deployment

Hello Damien,

>>The sizes you present are consistent with what we see ourselves for the “default demo” application (the “just click and build” scenario) when using MFC statically. Of course, we do want MFC binaries to be as “acceptable” as possible on many aspects; functionality, reliability, speed and size to name but a few. Can I ask a few questions: does the size of a “default demo” application, such as you describe above, concern you from the point of view of your “shipping” applications?

I like the new classes in the feature pack and I don't think that the bigger size of the executable

would be a concern for me if it is the price to pay to use the new controlbars from the feature pack.

But I have a few MFC dialog based applications where the main window is a dialog box. I use these applications

for service controller,etc. Also another MFC based application is for implementing a control Panel app.

These are simple applications where a small size is required for fast loading at startup or when the

customer clicks the control panel and the new classes are not needed.

I recompiled one if these apps with VS2010 and ended with a 1.459 KB file

It is the bigger size a consequence of the new classes of the recently released Feature Pack?

I think BCGControlBars offers the option to enable or disable linking to the new controlbars

to decrease the size of the executable.  I couldn't find any information on how to do this

with the classes in the feature pack or do they have to be included always, even when they are not used?

>>Have you built your “shipping” applications with VS2010 yet? Do you ship your applications with MFC statically linked-in? This feedback would be very useful to us.  If you like we can chat about this over email, my alias is damien (at Microsoft dot com.)

I have built one of the applications that I described in the above lines: it is a small dialog based control panel app

with MFC statically linked. The size is about 7 times bigger than with VC6.0 (200 KB exe compiled with

VC6.0 and statically linked to the MFC)

The Class Wizard has generated a lot of interest from our customers, just look at the number of times it is mentioned on this previous blog post http://blogs.msdn.com/somasegar/archive/2007/08/08/visual-c-futures.aspx for example. So we definitely hear that it is a much requested feature. All I can say at this point is that not all features are in beta 1 – so do not give up hope yet :-)

I use the Class Wizard intensively and extensively for adding new functions handlers, and to add or modify dialog box item control mappings to variables. It would be a much needed and welcome comeback to the new IDE. One of the reasons that I downloaded the VS2010 was to see the new Class Wizard

>>Please let us know how you find the rest of your experience with the beta when you get a chance.

Overall I like very much the new IDE, as it largely exceeds all my programming requirements at this moment.

It has improved a lot for developing web applications, since Visual Interdev.

In that aspect I see that the product is far better than VC6.0. I will continue to test the new features in C++ development

that is the language I use for most of my applications since Version 1.5.

Also I noticed some minor problems ie:

1) When switching from Statically Linked MFC to dynamically Linked MFC, the runtime library is not switched automatically

as it used to be in the previous versions: I have to manually switch to use the corresponding runtime library each time.

2) The Release Configuration is configured by default with the /Zi flags ( debug in program database) and the linker configuration

also is selected /DEBUG by default. Turning of this option, doesnt clear the Generate Program Database option.

3) When I resize the IDE, it takes some milliseconds more than with the native IDE. I think it is because

the new IDE uses WPF.

4) It uses a lot of memory. I opened the Standard MDI project and some windows, then I checked with the

taskmanager where memory usage went from 465 MB (wihtout VS2010) to nearly 860 MBytes.

Regards,

Marcel

VS 2010 is an utter disappointment. Data Access  sucks, WPF debugging and data binding is still a joke and any cool UI controls for wpf are nowhere to be found, class browser worthless, still missing a data centric language, the UI is inconsistent and unfinished, performance is worse then VS 2008, the MVC (massive volumes of code) framework designers don't work and none of the bugs in 1.0 addressed, property sheet bugs when subclassing UI'S by hand haven't been fixed, N-TIER is still not fully implemented.... Man I'm at a lost what you all are thinking !

With all the opportunities for improvement in VS and .BLOAT why anyone would take one of the few areas that was marginally acceptable the UI and screw it up it beyond me.

Why is symbolic nonsense the centerpiece of MSFT'S development strategy. The thought process where, if you add enough flash we may overlook the product flaw is not working. Obviously using technology to make end users (developers) more productive is NOT a priority for MSFT anyone more!

.Mark

By the way I think the BING team is using flash not silverlight I wonder why ? I guess there is not a single team at Microsoft willing to go out on a limb for your new technologies...

Hi,soma:

I want to know is it a free software for us to use?

Welcome to the 49th edition of Community Convergence. The big excitment of late has been the recent release

Installed Windows 7 RC and VS2010 on my three year old laptop and guess what? It works just fine - great work people!

I've got no idea what Mark Gordon's problem is - LINQ is working just fine, the SQL Database editors inside VS are working just fine and I don't have any kind of issue with "code bloat"...

Clearly if Edit and Continue was easy - it would be done - so it must be freakishly difficult - good luck with that!

Anyone wanting small fast applications using MFC needs their head read... If you want small and fast - use ATL and WTL! Actually do these frameworks work in VS2010 - not had a chance to try them yet!

The only item on my wish-list is an MSBuild task for invoking the Message Compiler as I write lots of Windows Service code and prefer to hook up old-school event log message libraries to my .NET services so the Event Viewer experience is complete. The .rule file I was using in VS2008 doesn't work in VS2010 without a corresponding task :-(

With all the changes and teams working on various parts of VS2010 I certainly would prefer it to ship later rather than sooner - we want a stable product first and foremost and then we'd like a speedy product. Everything else is icing.

Oh one question - will "geneva" ship in the BCL with VS2010 RTM - I'm looking at it now and it really is the answer to my web-service security woes :-)

Introducing such a topic you'd like to congratulate you've let us know

In VS 2008 .NET 3.5 encountered a substantial performance degregation with Workflow Foundation visual editor when droping more than 10 Activities. The problem exists in both Sequential Workflow or State Machine Workflow Editor.

My Question:

Does VS 2010 and .NET 4.0 addressed this performance issue?

I just spent the day working with VS 2010 Beta 1 with C++. It stinks. I'm not impressed. Whatever happened to "2010 is the next 6?" What especially kills me is that you still haven't fixed glaring dialog box misaligned controls and a glaring bug that has been in the MFC class wizard for several releases.

The project import from VC++ 6.0 is completely broken.

Performance is worse than 2005 (which is worse than 6.)

Switching solutions using the MRU list caused VS 2010 to lock up.

Switching solutions also kept asking me to save solution files that were already saved. Saying "Yes" would overright the existing project. (It apparently was too dumb to add the converted solution to the VS 2010 solution. Even worse, when I directory opened the vxproj file, VS locked up with the windows in a very strange position.)

VS 2010 doesn't obey the ClearType setting.

It is VERY slow to start. It is SLOW to close a solution. It is SLOW, SLOW, SLOW.

The color scheme is horrid.

When working in the properties and saving them, there are serious redraw problems.

The profiler still stinks beyond belief. (Hint: steal ideas from CompuWare.)

This is an abomination.

Hello Joe,

Sorry you had such unacceptable experience. Some of the above issues specially concerning project conversion and performance are being looked upon now and we did lots of work there since the Beta1 timeframe.

Nevertheless, I would be very much interested in trying some of the issues you faced and discussing them with you in more details. Could you please contact me directly at "aymans at microsoft dot com". I would love to try the issues you faced and make sure they are indeed fixed in our current internal builds.

Thanks,

Hi Bruce,

   Regarding the performance of WF designer in .Net 3.5, we are very aware of the performance problems that exists with workflow more than about 50 activities and are working on fixing them in Dev 10. If you are encountering problems with just 10 activities I would like to know some more details so we take action quickly. Can you please share with us some more details of performance problems with just 10 activities? I would like to know which operations caused problems, were there any specific activities that caused the problems etc. I would really appreciate that and it will help us tremendously.

Apart from this we have a new editor for new WF framework that we are releasing in .Net 4. In the new designer we have substantially higher level of performance. Just as a comparison in the new designer you should be able to work with sequential workflows of about 1000 activities very easily.  

Thanks for your feedback and looking forward to hearing back from you on the .Net 3.5 designer.

Thanks

Pravin Indurkar

Thanks

Hi Pravin,

Thanks for your response.

I provided somewhat inaccurate number of 10 Activities when noticing the degradation in performance. The 10 Activities I was thinking about where the StateActivity.

I am developing  a State Machine Workflow application hosted in console based application exposing a WCF interface. So each StateActivity has 2 or 3 EventDrivenActivity and each contains 2 to 5 Sequential Activities (IfElseActivity, DelayActivity, CodeActivity, etc.) So when adding all those activities, which I didn't count, when sending the original  message, will amount to more than 50 Activities. And that is inline with the number you provided in your response.

In your response you indicated that the new editor for .NET 4.0 will handle 1000 Activities. My question, whether this number includes both State Machine Workflow and Sequential Workflow Activities. If the answer is yes, then it is well above the number that I need to utilize in my application, which is about 400 to 500 Activities.

In .NET 3.5 noticed the degradation in performance, I noticed, in the WF editor when going between View Code Behind to View Designer. My current system is Core Duo with 4GB ram running Windows XP SP3.

For best performance of WF editor, what hardware/software configuration would you recommend? Would OS 64bit will make a difference?

Hi Bruce,

    For the new workflow designer the 1000 activity workflow is a sequential workflow. We also are optimizing the free form designer which is the basis of flow chart designer that we are offering new. We are optimizing that also and our goal is that it can handle 500 activities easily with all of them connected.

In terms of the degradation of the performance when doing a 'view code behind' and then comming back to the designer, I agree with you on the regression. In fact that is the regression that we are working on very actively and we will ensure that peformance on that is good.

In terms of hardware/software requirements there is nothing required for the workflow designer in addition to the Visual Studio requirements. The standard configuration recommended for Visual Studio is sufficient for workflow designer also.

Thanks for your response and please let me know if you have any further questions.

Thanks

Pravin Indurkar

Hi Joe,

I want to address some of your questions. Please feel free to follow up with me at "borisj at microsoft dot com".

question 1 - project import from VC6 is broken

As Ayman mentioned, we agree that it's not ideal in Beta1 but we have been using a bunch of real-world projects and the upgrade experience has improved significantly in Beta2.

question 2 - misaligned controls in class wizards

Can you be a little more specific? It's true that some of these wizards don't get much attention but we've focused on re-creating the full-fledged MFC Class Wizard experience of VC6, which you should see in Beta2. In the meantime, if you can file a bug report, that would be helpful.

question 3 - performance is worse than 2005

VS is a large program and we agree that its performance in Beta1 is severely lacking. Our entire division continues to push very hard to make Beta2 and RTM drastically faster. As for C++, you can already see some of the scalability improvements we've made in the core architecture. For example, the solution database does not reparse when making changes to headers like it used to in 2005.

question 4 - switching solutions causes VS to lock up

We have heard reports of this but have not been able to reproduce this in our labs. Please email me so we can follow up with you directly.

question 5 - vs doesn't obey cleartype setting

This is an area where we've made a bunch of progress since Beta1. The editor respects Cleartype settings however some parts of WPF do not respect it, which is why some menus and controls don't obey the setting. We are working to resolve this.

question 6 - slow start

We have made huge improvements to startup time since Beta1 and continue to make it a priority.

question 7 - poor color scheme

Can you clarify what it is that is bothering you? Is it the design of something specific like the start page or the new project dialog (both of which have changed since Beta1)? Or is it the overall choice of colors in the program?

question 8 - poor redraw when editing properties

Which properties are talking about here? In a designer context or in the editor? It would be very helpful if you could log a bug for this issue.

question 9 - poor quality of profiler

We'd love to know more about what you mean here. could you send me an email directly at borisj at microsoft dot com? for the native profiler, we have added a new concurrency profiling mode (both resource contention and thread execution, a "Just My Code" mode, an improved summary page, a new function details page and sampling support on virtualized environments.

Thanks,

Boris

Microsoft has to DO MORE to promote Silverlight by using it on their own websites - starting with msn videos, bing, maps, getting more partners to use it and not just use it for 1 odd page sitting as a side-kick page for a specialized purpose.

(btw, maps on Bing have gotten worse than when it was Live maps in terms of performance and there has been NO UPDATE since a year!)

------------------------------------------------

In regards to Joe question 7 - poor color scheme

------------------------------------------------

I think what Joe means and what I noticed also is that Visual Studio 2010 shoulden´t force the blue color theme on developers there should be option to change color of the UI to maybe "black" or to a netural "grey" as blue isen´t everyones taste.

I personally don´t want to spend my days looking at a blue UI i distracts my eyes when coding ;-)

Just give us the option to tweak color of the WPF ui in Visual studio 2010 as WPF has such good customization options this shoulden´t be to big of a job right ?

Best regards

Nicklas

Re: default x86 platform

"whether it's the right change or not"

It's not.

Please do not devote time to edit and continue if it is a major chunk of work, most professional programmer rarely use it. When I started programming in the write, debug, debug, debug style sure it was a handy feature, but spending time in the debugger is not productive, with the alt.net movement and focus on TDD/BDD gaining pace I dont think we need to further advance debugging in VS (it's already bloody good for when its required).

The lack och Edit and continue support make me want to kill my self. This is the one singel most used feature for small and medium companies with only basic programing skills. Edit and continue has been there since the vb time. Removing support now is like giving people a kick in the face.

I would say most programmers use it alot.

Karl -

Edit and continue is still supported in the product -- you should continue to see it in Beta 2.  Dustin Campbell gives a good description of the current limitations with EnC in the comments above, but please feel free to follow-up with me at [karenliu at microsoft dot com] if you're not seeing any EnC support at all in the Beta.

Thanks!

Karen Liu

Hi, I cannot seem to get Visual Studio 2008 to create a new web site project using .net 4.  Is this a supported feature of .net 4 or am I limited to creating .net 4 projects using Visual Studio 2010?

thanks...pix

thanks for the quick response...don't understand why the VS team would limit VS2008 from using .NET 4, but...that said, VS2010 is pretty cool, so no big complaints...kudos to the VS team for the improvements on VS2010...pix