Steve Jobs says Java is history

 

In this quote with the New York Times

Markoff: “And what are you thinking about Flash and Java?”

Jobs: “Java’s not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It’s this big heavyweight ball and chain.”

I can't believe the hype being given to iPhone.  Even some of my blindly-loyal pro-Microsoft friends and colleagues talk like it's a real innovation and will "redefine the market" or "usher in a new age". 

What!?!?  Without even mentioning that the same functionality has been available on PocketPC, Palm, Nokia, and Blackberry for years, I just have to wonder who will want one of these things (other than the religious faithful).  People need this to be a phone, first and foremost. But with 5 hours of battery life?  No keypad?  (you try typing a phone number on that screen, no matter how wonderful it is -- you will want a keypad).  And for all that whiz-bang Internet access, you absolutely need the phone to work, immediately, every single time.  Will it do that? 

So please mark this post and come back in two years to see the results of my prediction:  I predict they will not sell anywhere near the 10M Jobs predicts for 2008.  Okay, it's possible there are enough Apple religious people to buy a lot of them at first, but even the most diehard Mac fans who buy one of these will secretly carry two phones.  One to prove how loyal and "cool" they are, and the other to actually make and receive calls.

I remember the lessons I learned working with the Newton team many years ago.  I was in Apple's marketing department at the time and we did this big fancy user study which basically proved that nobody would buy the thing at the price and functionality we were building.  So what did we do?  We shoved it into the market anyway because it was "cool".  Cool is great, but you still need to make phone calls.

 

Published 18 January 07 06:43 by sprague

Comments

# Charles White said on January 18, 2007 10:55 AM:

You fail to acknowledge the technology that is used in the iPhone's interface. It utilizes Multi-Touch, which is NOT an Apple brand. For a demo reel of the Multi-Touch interface, visit the devlopers site:

http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/

After you watch the video (or rent Minority Report, which used Multi-Touch as well), you may want to view on of the 200 patents that Apple has on this:

http://tabletpcs.engadget.com/2006/11/26/here-we-go-again-mac-tablet-claimed-for-mid-2007-launch/

The iPhone is obviously the first of a long line of products that will utilize this technology.

And as Mr Jobs stated at his keynote: "It's heavily patented."

You just saw the future.

# Tom said on January 18, 2007 11:06 AM:

I agree with you - looks like junk to me - but from Apple's viewpoint, even if iPhone doesn't change the world, sales of iPhone represent incremental revenue and (presumably) profit relative to today when they don't sell such a product. So from Apple's standpoint, the product will be a success regardless of how much the iPhone actually changes the market.

# Tom said on January 18, 2007 11:11 AM:

Oh, and regarding Java, Jobs is way off the mark. It is a typical dismissive comment made by an arrogant man. Jobs only values Apple's technologies, and he believes that things developed by all other companies are crap. His comments mean nothing.

Microsoft shouldn't take Jobs' word for it - Microsoft should plan to continue the battle against Java for many years into the future.

Anyway, Jobs may be too busy in the near future trying to stay out of jail to worry about Java. The evidence released by Apple seems to implicate him in the options post-dating scandal. I can't believe that prosecutors will let him off the hook - that would be simply irresponsible.

# kfra said on January 18, 2007 1:25 PM:
# andy b said on January 18, 2007 2:11 PM:

10M users in 2008?  How much money does Apple get paid from Cingular for those 10M users and is Apple already accounting for the profit to beef up their 2006/7 financials?

# G.T. said on January 18, 2007 4:24 PM:

I just don’t understand what Microsoft is not saying anything about the so called apple innovations, on screen keyboard is available in Windows CE since years, a decade by now, multi touch display is out there in the universities for years, etc, etc ,etc.

I didn’t see a single innovation in the iPhone, I noticed that they did a good job putting the technology together, but there is not a single thing that apple invented, including the multi touch display, or clicking on your display, even the zoom was done in the universities and demoed on the internet, including clips in youtube since long time.

I just don’t understand how they did patent that, or was all in iPhone patented? And can you patent something that the world is already using, or the universities already have invented since years?

# Eric said on January 18, 2007 6:15 PM:

Great post... thanks!

# Pomcast.com » Blog Archive » 1Pom070119-159 said on January 18, 2007 8:09 PM:

PingBack from http://www.pomcast.com/wp/?lp_lang_pref=fr&p=640

# James Hancock said on January 18, 2007 9:14 PM:

The difference is that Microsoft and Rim's version of the same thing that has been around for years SUCKS because the interface SUCKS.  

The iPhone works the way it sould and presents the information it should at the right times in a nice looking way and doesn't make you work at it.

This is what MS's committees don't get. It isn't about features, it's about ease of use.

# E.S. said on January 19, 2007 4:12 PM:

Uhmm.. Jobs is right.  Java *is* a ball and chain.  

Come on admit it, doesn't your heart drop a little when you realize the JVM is being loaded?  Certainly by a productivity app, and most defintiely by a webpage -- you know it's going to be annoying slow and not quite right from a UI perspective.  At least C# and the CLR embeds well int othe environment it's built for.

Certainly, if you take the context of the question into account, noone of any significance (or sanity) makes Java-based UI for web stuff anymore.  It's long been surpassed by (faster loading) ECMAScript and AJAX.  

And, re: iphone, I'll take a wait and see attitude.  Apple has a history of getting everything right from UI perspective, but does *not* have a history of good quality control or pragmatism when it comes to the physical merchandise -- and I think it could bite them when you're talking about 10M devices that would have to shipped.

# James Nuttall said on January 19, 2007 4:21 PM:

I watched the video on the iPhone demonstration.  It was nice technology.  But it isn't something I'm looking for.  What I want is great speech recognition on a cell phone. Voicesignal.com has developed it, but speech recognition isn't available to the US market. I want to be able to speak the addresses I want found by my cell phone navigation system. I don't want to tap it in. iPhone doesn't have speech or navigation. I don't want to scroll and tap my phone book. I want one stop voice activation, e.g. "Call Jim" that's it. No menus, eyes free, hands free.

I want my text messages and email read to me.

I don't want Apple OS X on a phone, I want Vista--thanks.

# Kaveh Shahbazian said on January 24, 2007 1:17 AM:

I am writing C#/ASP.NET from 2002 and before that VC++/MFC things and before that I was programming too at highschool around 1970.

I was (partialy am) a Microsoft religous and I never even have an attention for other technology.

All that I should say here is I am starting to abandoning Microsoft in every and all ways.

May be that's far from even imagination, but I believe that if microsoft is not going to fall, at least it will loose in many areas in less than 5 years.

In fact a programmer with a long years working on different projects in microsoft technologies WILL start to hating it; and in this way microsoft will have just new-comers!

# Pablo Chacin said on January 24, 2007 5:59 AM:

You are putting the Steve Job's comments out of context and context means a lot:

Markoff: "What about all those plugins that live within Safari now, like Flash or like Java or like JavaScript?"

Jobs: "Well, JavaScript’s built into the Phone. Sure."

Markoff: "And what are you thinking about Flash and Java?‘ Jobs: "Java’s not worth building in. Nobody uses Java anymore. It’s this big heavyweight ball and chain.-"

I think that Steve reffers to using Java for reach visual interfaces and I think that for that endevours  Java is pretty much dead. Any one has developed an applet  lately?

# tzagotta said on January 24, 2007 12:45 PM:

@Kaveh Shahbazian: Why do you feel this way? I feel quite the opposite. I have used a lot of tools and techologies over the past 10-15 years, including Microsoft, and I see Microsoft gaining momentum, not losing momentum. Microsoft has invested a lot of R&D money into .NET, Visual Studio, C#, web services, next-gen GUI, etc. I don't see any other developments by any other company that are even close to what Microsoft is offering.

# Richard Sprague WebLog said on January 26, 2007 9:07 PM:

Bookmark this page and come back in December 2008 if Apple sells anywhere near the 10M phones they're

# John C. Randolph said on January 27, 2007 12:11 AM:

Tom,

SJ is spot-on w/r/t Java.  It was the biggest naked emperor to hit the IT world since Windows NT, and I'm glad to see that Apple's not pretending it's worthwhile anymore.   Back in 1997, Java looked promising, but once Gosling decided to ignore the advice he was getting from the Smalltalkers and the NeXTSTEP developers, it was doomed.  Strong typing  in an OO language is a recipe for a lot of wasted code.

-jcr

# Kaveh Shahbazian said on January 27, 2007 1:46 AM:

To tzagotta: I do not say that Microsoft is going to vanished. This company will continue to developing technologies and selling them. Technologies that have bad and ugly design because Microsoft want to increase coupling between it's technologies just to sell more.

Let I put it in short. I'v just started some seriuos projects in open source world, where there is not a problem like "asp.net must be used with IIS". Still I say visual studio good. But it is not wath can realy help. There are many tasks there : Unit Testing, Source Control, Continious Building, Continious Integration and Methodologies and a lot more. Microsoft technologies have nothing in common with good programming. I can not say you anything but I hope that you find an opportunity to put open source technologies to work in a real project with some experts of that folk.

Many many will continue Microsoft, and many others will come to continue that. But I do not do that anymore. Because in my opinion it is all about buzz.

All microsoft is doing is that it used me as a part of it's selling machine. Microsoft push you to only use microsoft by providing useless features that are all about that stupid coupling between it's products. It does not even implement standards (like W3C ones) as the standard itself and there is always some bulshit around implementations.

Every body can continue his way in his way. I do wantto choose wath "I" think is good not "Microsoft" think is good. With microsoft you have very few or almost no choices!

# TrackBack said on January 27, 2007 9:13 AM:
# TrackBack said on January 27, 2007 9:13 AM:
# tzagotta said on January 27, 2007 9:36 AM:

To John: Well, if you think that NT was some kind of failure, then I can't really take your views of Java too seriously. I can only assume you are looking at these things from an idealistic, perfectionistic, or academic perspective. Both NT and Java have been a huge success, in terms of commerce and mindshare, and both will still continue for quite some time into the future.

Regarding your comment on strongly-typed OO languages, I don't see what you mean. C# is this way, too, and in my view, C# and Java are two of the most productive, professional development languages available today.

To Kaveh, all technologies today build upon other technologies. It is natural that Microsoft would layer their technologies on top of their other technologies. This is done by everyone, not just Microsoft. You also have this everywhere in the open-source world, as well. For example, Linux compiles with GCC, and nothing else. There are numerous examples of the same. Your implication that Microsoft intentionally does this as some sort of market domination play is the same as saying that open-source advocates have the same objective. If you are developing open-source, then you have become part of the open-source selling machine, which is no different than being part of the Microsoft marketplace.

# Jon said on February 2, 2007 12:10 PM:

The Newton wasn't made on Steve Jobs' watch, though he did kill it off.

The iPod didn't offer new functionality, and articles like this said as much.

Which is not to say Apple is going to succeed with the iPhone.  But the "other things have this functionality", "Mac fanatics can only buoy a stupid product for so long", and "it may be pretty, but it's too expensive" talking points fly in the face of recent history.

You don't have to be a Mac fanatic to realize people like you were wrong on all three points as recently as the iPod.  (see also: the mouse.  nextstep.  ilife apps.  the ipod nano.  the ipod that could play video.  the viability of selling tv shows and movies online.)

The only time you've been right in recent history has been with the G4 Cube.  But its sales tanked *with mac fanatics*, and was quickly discontinued.  The sad truth (if you hate Apple hype) is that Apple makes fantastic devices.  People buy them because of that, not religion.

# Nestor said on February 8, 2007 4:47 PM:

>I think that Steve reffers to using Java for reach >visual interfaces and I think that for that >endevours  Java is pretty much dead. Any one has >developed an applet  lately?

Has anyone tried to do use thinkfree.com.  Try their spreadsheet.  Try doing a poweredit in the word processor.  Better yet try this java video demo in done using F3

http://blogs.sun.com/chrisoliver/category/F3

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