"So, a booth babe and a geek walk in to a bar..."

aarrgghh

ok - I can kinda grok ;-) the whole dropping MCSE as a title. Professional Engineers have been snippy about using the "E" since Novell introduced the CNE way way back (1990ish?). I can reluctantly understand getting away from that ... still a shame - the MCSE carries such recognition.

But this whole expiry thing is just wrong. It's a not-so-thinly veiled marketing ploy to force certified people to try the next new thing as soon as it comes out. The 3 year span gives that away. Most server based things are really a 5 year cycle rather than 3 anyway. Yes - I know - server 2000, 2003 and 2008 but real adoption lags behind that unless you're a bleeding edge junky.

Cisco have expiry because TCP/IP just doesn't change and it's about the only way they can assure currency.

But OS's date. The TS's etc are now branded with the name of the technology - including version. So there's  no need to expire. The technology will naturally date (I like to say "rot") the certificate.

If MS really want an expiry clause - how about expiring at the end of the extended support life. This just screams that marketers have taken over the certs.

I have spent a lot of time defending MS certs from people who claim (with heavy negative connotations) that the MS certs expire; when in fact they don't. That was rumored a few years ago then dropped. But now that negative stigma applies, the critics are indeed correct. It's a shame.

Oh quit whinning Dave, MCTS exams don't expire only the MCITP 'bundles of MCTS exams'. Resit one of the MCTS exams within the MCITP then your recertified for another 3 years. It's 1 extra exam every 3 years, big deal.

Let's say two people with equal experience go up for a job, 1 just has their MCSE 2000, the other their MCSE 2000 & a MCP with WinXP Pro (70-270). Which one would get the job? The one who has put a bit of effort into their career to keep up with the times? Don't you think?

If you know your stuff then you won't have to study for it too long, just sit it again and you could be out within an hour!

You'll have the MCTS exams passed. 1 exam for Server 2008, 1 exam for Exchange 2007, maybe 1 for SQL Server after 3 years on exams you already passed before, Wow, I'm overwelmed. It's unlikely that you'll do an upgrade more than once, and probably once the particular MCITP cert life ends you'll have it for life then. Must ask Trika that!

As for "it's one exam as soon as the next new thing comes out" - Yeah, now you'll probably be able to take an upgrade Exchange exam in the future instead of resitting all the Exchange exams like before the MCTS/MCITP change. Must ask Trika that too! If so, you'll be sitting the same or less exams than before.

If your friends had CCNP then they should have gone for the CCIE written that would have kept their CCNP upgraded. Simple. Certification is there to prove current knowledge (and to push you to a place where you do, if your not there already) not just a couple of letters after your name or JUST to get a job.

"I think it is ridiculous - MCSE is universally recognized by HR and hiring managers"

Are these the same ones who require a MCSE for a helpdesk position? If they're smart enough I’m sure they can work it out, it's not that hard to understand. A name change and more logical categorization of skills = better in my opinion - obviously ;-)

Check out the definition of 'Engineer' on Wikipedia, then look at 'Computer Engineering' it has nothing to do with the roles of an MCSE. IT people are NOT engineers; Professionals? Yes, Engineers? No. Is your mechanic classed as an engineer? No.

Y-E-Me

actually - my mechanic does class himself as an engineer. So does the welder I had fix my kids swing yesterday.

I totally agree, the 3 year recert requirement is simply not necessary. The MCSE was fairly well respected, I saw no need for any major changes.

The MCPD cert is the same, very few shops will be suitable for people to maintain their cert on work experience, many use many non m$ tech and thoose that use m$ won't follow the upgrade path religiously, therefore creating the same expiry conumdrum, suddenly your certificated knowledge effectively dissappears in the eyes of recruiters. Recruiters are fairly dumb in general hence the use of obtaining certs in the first place.

Why do i need to prove I know .Net every 3 years ? So a few API's change big deal. The basic language, design patterns, testing practices etc stay the same.

I've seen this all before, I learned Win16, Win32, ATL/WTL, MFC, COM/DCOM/COM+/OLE/ActiveX/OLE DB/ADO and now .Net. Am I supposed to jump through exam hoops every time microsoft changes direction ?