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Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Since my post on Sunday, in which I talk about what a false positive is and what it isn't, I've received a couple of questions about the scenarios I outlined and how the math works so I'd like to clear some of that up.

First off, the purpose of outlining the four scenarios was to show some of the situations in which WGA would indicate that a system is not genuine or licensed (and it would be correct) but the user of that system might be somewhat suprised by that failure and might even feel as though the WGA validation failure was in error leaving them possibly with the sense of a false positive. To be clear, in each of those scenarios the copy of Windows installed would fail validation and that would be the correct determination. The crucial similarity among the four scenarios I outlined is that in each the user might be surprised by the validation failure, being surprised does not make the validation failure erroneous.

Second, as to the total number of validation failures being about one in every five attempts, the fact is that there are numerous other scenarios that could result in validation failure. In many of those other scenarios the user of the system or purchaser of the software has some knowledge that the software isn't genuine or isn't properly licensed and is perhaps not as surprised when the validation fails. There are people who likely fall all along a range of awareness from mere suspicion, owing to the fact that they got a really good price online or for used software or some other 'too good to be true' deal, to someone who has full knowledge that the software isn't genuine or licensed and even futher to those who manufacture and sell counterfeit software and are knowing perpetrators in significant and serious crime. All together people who don't know, people who know and everyone in between who have counterfeit or unlicensed software on their system amount to about one out of every five validation attempts.

Lastly, I would like to add a little more context to something I said in my last post about the number of actual false positives we've seen in the program. Over the last year there have been occasions where we have received reports of what might be real false positives. Each time we receive a report like this and can gather enough detail we perform our own tests to determine if there might be a bug in the code or something else that could negatively impact WGA's ability to accurately make a determination. The total number of what might be actual false positives found over the past year amout to only a fraction of a percent.

Published Wednesday, July 19, 2006 6:30 AM by alexkoc

Comments

Thursday, July 20, 2006 8:37 AM by bruceatk

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I've gotten a false positive and from what I can see on the internet there are many people given the the same story as myself.  Of course I was asked to make changes to my system without ever trying to understand why I was getting the false positive in the first place.  I'm sure there are far more false positives then you realize.  They just get misidentified and hidden in your other categories even though they shouldn't be.  I haven't changed my keys.  My course of action was to remove the notification process from my system.  

I verified with HP that my keys were legit.  They offered me an XP cd, but I told them I didn't need them since I have never used my MSDN or Action Pack XP licenses and it isn't their fault that the notification tool is displaying incorrect information.

I'm not very happy with Microsoft and you have me seriously looking at my alternatives.
Thursday, July 20, 2006 11:08 PM by leepen

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I'm working on a Gateway 300s that crashed during an Windows XP SP2 upgrade.  This happened when my customer's son in-law so graciously decided to upgrade the PC  while they were away on vacation.  
My research indicates that this system will not except Windows SP2.  I used the Gateway provided recovery CDs to reinstall Windows XP.  As I'm running Windows Updates I receive the Windows Validation Notification, the validation fails and I'm soon redirected to install the WGA notification tool (please excuse any deviation from MS nomenclature).

Here's my dilemma, I'm going to return this computer to my customer with all of the pre -SP2 updates, and a blue WGA star in the task bar telling them that their version of Windows is not up to date.  You can right click on the blue WGA star and  disable Critical Windows Service Pack Notifications, but the blue star remains giving the option to upgrade to SP2.  Further more WGA has no uninstall option in Add or Remove Programs.  Microsoft has instructions on removing the pilot version of WGA but not for the latest WGA (KB905474).  I'm left looking for a way to disable it, but  it would sure be nice to be able to uninstall it.

Microsoft please listen to your reasonable paying customers
Friday, July 21, 2006 1:55 AM by alexkoc

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I'm sorry if either or both of you (burceatk and leepen) are having difficulty with WGA. I would recommend to both of you that you post (what you've written here) to our WGA forum where there are a number of folks that can help you identify exactly what is happening. I can assure both of you as I indicated in my earlier post that we take reports of false positives very seriously and if the typical solutions will not work we will investigate further.

You can find our forum where you can report your issues at: http://forums.microsoft.com/genuine/default.aspx?siteid=25

Thanks - Alex
Monday, July 24, 2006 9:51 AM by gcw

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Alex - Can you be more specific than "The total number of what might be actual false positives found over the past year amout to only a fraction of a percent."  What percentage is that, and based on the huge number of instances, what is the real number of customers who are being falsely accused of running pirated software?  

Wednesday, July 26, 2006 1:25 PM by kurttrail

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

"The total number of what might be actual false positives found over the past year amout to only a fraction of a percent."

With over 300 million validations, have many thousands of paying customers have been screwed over with WGA?

What is the stockholue value of all the costs of developing and maintaining WGA, and incurring all this consumer wrath?

Do you sleep well at night knowing wha you are doing is causing so many people grief, while anyone that is a real pirate is just laughing at ya'll for cutting off your noses to spite your paying customers?
Sunday, July 30, 2006 4:00 PM by tickedoff

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I believe nothing MS and their representatives say anymore. There always seems to be some sort of loophole, you're told by one rep you can get a solution, to call this other number, and then that rep says you can't, unless you pay more $ to Microsoft. And they always try to pass the buck to someone else.

I have 2 legitimate, purchased, and registered OEM copies of Operating systems here on theis home theatre PC, which was originally built by an excellent and reputable system builder with only XP x 64. The hardware was all brand new, and powerful enough to run Vista. Unfortunately, a 64-bit driver still doesn't exist for LG's superdrive, so I could never get it to go into DMA mode. What use is a drive that won't go into DMA? So I had to drop another $400 on top of $2500 to get the PC into a dual boot system with Media Centre Edition with another OEM OS, the extra system hardware that allowed me to purchase the second OEM OS (neither x64 OR MCE is sold in any way BUT OEM) AFTER I proved it was all good, new, and complete hardware with the complete batch of receipts, and spent weeks getting it all working properly - despite the fact that MS didn't even label the installation disks properly.

Now, without touching the hardware for 3 months, I had to re-activate my windows again on this same computer because I was greeted this morning with the "Your hardware has changed significantly", and was only given 3 lousy days to do it. I know for a FACT that my hardware hadn't changed, I know for a FACT that it was a legitimate and verified copy, and I know for a FACT that I will never purchase Vista or any other Microsoft software ever again -- until Microsoft comes clean and drops this "call-home" busines completely.

Proctor and Gamble as well as Department of Defence corporate users are also getting these false positives, so don't bother with more marketing-based lies like "only a fraction of a percent". Microsoft is simply insulting our colelctive intelligence with this, adding further insult upon insult, AFTER having being libelously accused of theft, had MS try to extort more $, and had my time wasted.

I believe in removing the WGA. And that's my choice.  
Monday, July 31, 2006 10:17 AM by tickedoff

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Alex, with all due respect to your denials and assurances that GAT/WGA won’t be used as a kill-switch, what Microsoft needs to do is go beyond a blog and issue a clear, unequivocal Press Release and something akin to a product recall if you’re going to succeed in changing this tide of distrust, fear, and lawsuits. Let me update you about what’s still happening even after your assurances in this blog.

I’ll spell it out with the semi-legalese first, because Microsoft themselves is hiding behind legalese that doesn’t fit with how common law is applied in the courts. The essence of a contract is that you cannot change the terms under which you’ve sold something – in this case a license – AFTER the customer has had a real chance to either accept or reject those terms with his/her purchase or non-purchase. Yet that is precisely what Microsoft has tried to do with the amended EULA’s, and its own employees are continuing to contradicting each other and you as late as yesterday. And the only people who are going to change a EULA are the seller’s lawyers, who should know better, but in their arrogance think they can get away with it. Microsoft customers were promised that they would get support through Windows update, and by no stretch of the imagination can a more restrictive change in the terms of use be considered supportive of the customers. Do what you want with Vista, we haven’t purchased it yet, but leave XP and its commercially-released variations alone.

Here’s what happened when I reactivated my Windows XP MCE after having been greeted with a “Your hardware has changed significantly” message yesterday morning, when in fact the hardware had NOT changed one iota in 3 months even though I had intended to add another hard drive (the serial number of which would be sent to Microsoft under the WGA):
• a manager at WPA support told me that they had the right under the “Terms and Conditions” to monitor my use of software applications because they worked on top of the OS, and any software application install in the future could trigger a demand to reactivate Windows again. This echoes what Microsoft representatives have been reported as saying in Ed Foster’s article, “WGA and Activation Failures Don't Faze Redmond”, so I’m obviously not alone. I’m also up to date with your references to Lauren Weinstein’s articles and Ed Bott’s Zdnet articles about Microsoft representatives making it clear that the fall-mandatory WGA will be used as a kill-switch to de-license owners who refuse to install the WGA. None of the Microsoft reps he talked to will deny this, so if you are, then Microsoft needs to show they are backing your statements in this blog.
• I was also told during this same WPA support session that it could be a system error, and that I could get support through regular tech support, and when I verified with this person that this was an OEM version (had to be, because it was only released through OEM) and that usually tech support would try to charge me for the support, I was told that Microsoft would not charge me for tech support even for OEM versions “in some cases”.
• When I did finally get through to tech support (a number of calls later) I was first asked which system builder/proprietary PC I had, a Dell, HP, etc. When I said it was a custom-built PC with generic, top-of-the-line hardware that my system builder had built for me, with x64, and I’d installed more system hardware and additionally-purchased MCE from MS discs, I was directed to a Knowledge Base article, or a credit card charge of $30-45. I forget which amount. I was told by tech support that I could certainly remove the GAT.
• The KB article, dated July 19th, makes it clear that it will only work for WGA builds up to 1.5.0532, and I already had 1.5.0540. Microsoft has been categorical with their insistence that WGA will be mandatory this fall, and that anyone not having it installed could be de-licensed, and the OS could be switched off to make the entire computer inoperable.
• So yes, I used the RemoveWGA tool, as it’s a huge invasion of my privacy to have my computer called someone else’s home with details about my software applications, as I am not a pirate of Microsoft and I am a legal, registered owner of the OS license under the conditions that I purchased it under – terms and conditions that cannot surreptitiously by Microsoft after the fact of my purchase. My build is now back down to 1.5.0330, but I cannot remove the GAT itself, and there never was a Knowledge Base Article that helps you remove the GAT if it’s build 1.5.0333 or higher.

So here’s what Microsoft can do to fix their PR nightmare and save their hides:
• Come out with a Press Release stating once and for all that a new GAT will be forthcoming that will allow its legal removal after the license has been initially validated.
• In that Press Release, come out once and for all to deny that the WGA will not be made mandatory and the GAT never used as a kill-switch to de-license legitimate customers just because we won’t accept your draconian new terms. Customers cannot be held liable for what happens to your intellectual property unless you prove they have been negligent first - in court.
• Market this new GAT free as a separate program – not an update – with the original EULA that XP was released under, or snail-mail its assurances to all licensed and registered users of the OS as an apology for the huge nightmare so many of your customers have experienced. Every other industry faces the need to recall its products that endanger a customer’s safety or property at one point or another – why not Microsoft?
• Thank the developer of the RemoveWGA tool, and take no steps to punish him or the users of this invaluable tool that may just save us all from $2-3000 worth of property damage. A software license is an asset, and assets cannot be taken away unless you take us to court and prove your case about us as individuals. Statistics about software theft cannot be used as a guilty-until-proven-innocent strategy; make no mistake: that’s exactly what Microsoft is currently doing with its piracy propaganda.
• Stop hiding behind pious words like trying to avoid piracy, as your customers aren’t stupid and can see that it’s only propaganda covering a real move toward a subscription-based licensing model. Of course, if we have to pay every year, and prove to you that we’re following your terms, there should be a trade-off in a lowered initial price.

If Microsoft wants its customers to be honest and accountable to them, then perhaps it should be honest, unequivocal and transparently accountable to its customers – or the customers will leave. My entire vacation will now be spent learning Linux in case my MCE becomes unusable this fall. That would be fair and legal. I can leave Microsoft if I don’t like the way it does business or tries to cheat me out of something I’ve bought and paid for. I can also join the class action suits currently under way if they continue to try and break the terms of the contract. It’s a 2-way street, and it is high time Microsoft proved they had some ethics in their business practices, and stopped using their charity arm to provide a veneer of ethics over illegal breaches of contract and deceptive business practices. In over 25 years there have been tons of people who’ve tried to cheat me and break the laws; I recently got fed up with it, and a few years ago started to take them to court. I always win because I always have the documentation to prove it, and know what I’m talking about because I do my research.
Monday, July 31, 2006 4:15 PM by legal_user

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Alex, after about one year using an legal and activated license of XP Pro the same happened to me what happened to tickedoff!! I was really suprised to be charged of being a thief or a criminal!! Also the statement that the seller I bought my license from might be a criminal is a kind of daring because it's a big IT Discounter.  So I tried to reactivate my license, but it seems to be impossible. Tommorow I will try to contact your information service here in Germany, because they are are only working til 6pm. What you are doing with this WGA is not paying off, because you are only punishing honest people or do you think that I would have turned the automatic software update on if I had an illegal license?? Little intelligence is necessary to come to that conclusion!! If your support tells me that I need to reinstall my OS it will definitivly not be XP after reinstallation. Anyway, I'm currently thinking of buying an Apple Notebook instead of an Microsoft powered machine. Last but not least I'm wondering what will happen when you start to implement your software in automotives...
Thursday, August 10, 2006 11:19 PM by djspark

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

WGA is a great idea, I really would like to see Microsoft set a better example to stop software priracy. However when support is needed with a customer that had this software installed without his/her consent, it should be of a higher quality than what is going on currently in the WGA forum :

http://forums.microsoft.com/Genuine/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=623637&SiteID=25

Friday, August 11, 2006 12:16 AM by djspark

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

And I guess since Phil Liu MSFT didn't like the response he went and deleted the thread after I had solved it with help from a windows support tech named nick.

but that's alright, I just happend to have a copy of the thread:
http://www.djspark.com/wga/wga.htm

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 4:13 AM by nowinscenario

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

1 - How, by any stretch of the imagination, is WGA considered one in the same as a Critical and Security update?  Presupposing that one even considers it a legit approach to the piracy problem (I do not), it should of--at the very least--appeared as a Recommended update--however, a strong case could be made for it really going under the optionally activated Beta part of Windows Update (especially in the beginning incarnations, where even some members of Microsoft questioned its release a premature).  WGA is not a security vulnerability discovered by researchers ... it's not a critical stability flaw ... it's not a buffer overflow problem:  it's merely a bad approach to a worse problem;

2 - What philosophy of customer service is it that requires legit users to eternally and continually prove and re-prove that they bought instead of stole?  Can you really think of any other so universal a market example that subscribes to such nonsense successfully?  Funny, after I purchased my car, I didn't have to keep going to the authorities on a regular basis to prove that it somehow doesn't magically turned into a stolen car one day  (and if Mazda started requiring me to prove it every 90 days, guess what:  I'm trading it in for a Ford--or whatever ... You get the picture)...  Once I've bought it, I shouldn't have to keep installing check, after check, after notification, after notification, etc.:  when does it end?  All it ends up doing is repeatedly annoying, alienating, insulting, and driving away legit users--it's not a good customer relations model to constantly harass your customers.  As for the pirates, it merely issues them a couple hours challenge to overcome hte problem--yet you see the vast array of problems it's created on the other side of things:  how can this result be rationally considered the best approach to the problem?  What good is offering a few carrots when you first beat us--and will continue to beat us--repatedly with sticks?  The carrots only exist because of the sticks we must endure.  This is poor philosophy at best.

3 -  In my own experience as a builder, I've seen this crap cause a lot of heartache, disappointment and discouragement in legit users and builders:  has anyone even considered that the fale positive statistics are skewed because of the fact that most disgruntled customers are simply not heard from in this regard?  It's funny when you read that some so-called majority of users have been enthusiatically receiving the WGA updates, when the real tragic story on the streets seems to be quite different:  I have yet to hear from even one user or builder who thinks the WGA approach is correct--in fact, quite the opposite (certainly no one has argued that it should been pushed unwittingly on customers as a Security update--customers, who given the choice as a Recommended update, as well as the foreknowledge of all its potential annoyances, would probably have not touched it with a virtual ten-foot pole).  What kind of Stepford Wife users is the WGA team at Microsoft polling anyway?  Does anyone really think that customers will embrace such a negative policy of repeatedly proving they are not criminals?  Is it any wonder that the Open Source community is so recently flourishing, now with no signs of slowing down? that Apple and various Linux distros are growing ever more popular and appealing, at a now accelerated rate?

4 - I also find the veiled insults about "improperly installed" legal copies (read: non-default installs, or custom deployments) particularly revolting--a default, out-of-the-box XP install has so many well-known and proven vulnerabilities, that to denigrate builders that attempt to rectify the situation, just because an unpolished and experimental MS program smuggled in as an Automatic (false) security update doesn't always react properly in such custom deployments ... well, that's just beyond the pale.

5 - If you want to foil piracy, you need to go to the street and turn pirates into someone that works for you:  this whole approach smacks of the old-hat approach of hiring a group of people that know little about the hacker mentality to battle hackers--the system ends up worse off in the end, and they harm or otherwise do wrong to those companies or individuals on the legitimate side of things.  Ultimately, Microsoft will suffer for this (and far worse than the damage pirates do--MS will be the harbinger of its own continuing market loss if it keeps up such policies)--if it wants to battle pirates, offer the pirates carrots, but don't keep on annoying and punishing your legit customers, builders and promoters.

6 - All this effort, money and time put into this obviously questionable idea and practice could have been spent on work where there is no question from anyone that it needs more ideation and application:  improving the inherent the security and privacy flaws of the operating system.  Instead, the WGA idea is to have all Microsoft users prove THEY'RE not flawed--and, so it appears, to do so repeatedly for the life of product usage.  Good, positive, productive approach, huh?  Good investment in money and work, too, huh?  Perhaps in a pig's eye...

7 - It may legitimate, based on the WGA philosophy, to ask "What's next?": how about requiring all Windows users to purchase specially designed web cams that do retinal scans every time the customer wants to do an update...?  How about biometrically linking the OS to its purchaser and requiring a thumbprint reading every time he or she wants to download the latest build of Microsoft Time Zone...?  (Sweet Jesus!  I hope I haven't given the WGA team any ideas...!  Forgive me...)
Tuesday, August 29, 2006 4:53 PM by sgunes

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Hello:
I must be one of the "handful users" who is going through WGA hell.
I have 2 Toshiba Satellite R15-S829 tablet PCs with XP Tablet installed by Toshiba (bought brand-new at CompUSA) . Both computers show the notification that this copy is not genuine.
I called MS and their Indian tech support told me that it is an OEM problem and I should call Toshiba.
I called MS again and they sent me to the validation website and the machine validates ok on the website.
MS referred me to the KB article that was only for the pilot version.
Toshiba had me install and run wgadiag and it says it's genuine.
We did a safe-boot and system restore, then ran all critical updates and after a reboot, there it was again. At this point Toshiba Tech Support level 4 has no idea what to do.
So far I have wasted 4 days of my time.
The biggest problem I have is that once the WGA rears its ugly head I cannot connect to my access point or to my domain network (running MS SBS2003 Premium), and after a couple more reboots the machine freezes at "applying your personal settings".
In my case wga is not just a small problem, no it MAKES THE COMPUTER UNUSABLE!!!
I know that this is not supposed to happen. Somehow this wga behaves like a rootkit.
Now that MS bought Russinovic (spelling?) who will find out what it exactly does?
When you right-click the wga icon it sends you to a website where you can fill out an email form.
I let them know in unmistakable terms that I wish Ballmer and Gates and whoever is involved with this wga should burn in hell forever. In case they are atheists I hope that they and their families will suffer horribly form metastatic cancer.
All that is left for me with my unusable tablet pc is to find Bill Gates and smash it over his head (worth the $2000) and join the class-action suits. Looks like that I finally found a group of people that I hate more than lawyers, it's these arrogant and pompous MS execs.

It took wga to get a pacifist to contemplate violence to get even with MS.

So far I bought over $3000 worth of MS Software (from SBS 2003 Premium with 10 licenses to a total of 8 computers with XP to Windows mobile, Age of Empires, Flight Sim..). I promise never to buy any Micosoft product in the future!!!

If anybody is interested, this is what the Diagnostic Tool 1.5.0545.0 shows:
Validation status: genuine
Product Key *****-*****-9MRB2-923HK-MD6PQ
Windows Product ID: 76487-OEM-2211906-00305
Windows Product ID Type: 2
Windows License type:  OEM SLP
Windows OS Version: 5.1.2600.2.00010100.2.0.tab
ID: e68256ff-03ff-4c94-9783-0a53651efb5a
Administrator: Yes
Autodial: No
Registry: 0x0
WGA Version: Registered, 1.5.540.0
Signed by: Microsoft

Monday, September 04, 2006 8:13 AM by paulmarkj

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

This is disgraceful. You should be ashamed of yourself. This has nothing to do with what is right or wrong, but what you can get away with.

I know it is hard of MS to admit it, but you have to face facts: MS software is often faulty. You give every excuse under the sun bar one: the WGA software could be at fault. It is always everybody else's fault.

Just take a look at your 'contact us' page. It gives loads of contacts OUTSIDE the MS organisation, always trying to deflect the blame.

I bet you will niot answer this comment except to deflect the blame elsewhere. You've only given one answer, and that was to push the problem elsewhere. Like everyone else at MS, you can make the speech, as no one dares to question you.

I bought XP with my PC.  Nobody complained at the time, when I was haniding the cash over, nobody validated it, but now, years later, you complain. Sorry, too late.

Think of the bad publicity: when you bring out new software, and I buy it, OEM, official store, sealed, full price, how do I know that in a years time you won't just say "Sorry, we've decided its not genuine" ?

Sorry, but this is a very poor show, you need to sort this out. Do your job and answer some of the questions raised here. Don't deflect, don't pass the buck. You started this, now at least answer the critics.


Monday, September 04, 2006 1:19 PM by kwitchyerbelliakin

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

OKAY, I am NOT stupid!  I work as an expert witness (Federal and state courts) related to the authenticity of data.  Lets cut out the double talk.

It is very simple to state the problem.  Here are the facts.  I purchased WINXP.  I took photos of the package and the transaction, I have signed witness statements.  I observe an EE install the CD rom with WINXP on it, and this was documented.  I took witness statements from all involved.  I videotaped the transaction.  I maintained custody of the WINXP media in a locked safety deposit box.

After many "crashes" of your product, the EE (installer) made a decision to contact Microsoft Tech support, We tape recorded the conversation with a beep tone, and notified Microsoft of the recording.  We booted up the SAME PC  following printed Microsoft installation requirements and instructions.  We videotaped this.  Now your "validation" response indicates that I have  a"counterfeit" WINXP product.  I see two alternatives:

1) File a lawsuit against your distributor for fraud including mail fraud ( I sent check through U.S. mail).

I ask you to participate, since you claim your distributor committed a crime (selling counterfet copyrighted material is a federal crime).  Maybe we need to make the assertion that intellectual property is counterfeit is a crime as well?

2) File a class action lawsuit against Microsft for Fraud, if the distributor was not found to be fraudulent.  I  its you or your distributor.  You can't "blame" the software since you designed it.  Be responsible, if it is inadsequate we'll hear that in court.

My evidence collection is good enough for homicide cases and mail fraud cases, why do you think you can talk your way out of RESPONSIBILITY for anything.

If you use your vast financial influence on the court, we can just take the case to another venue.  You can't buy off everyone.  One day you will be caught.

Monday, September 04, 2006 1:24 PM by kwitchyerbelliakin

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I don't believe it, I learned about fraud (Direct knowledge) within the Microsoft organization and you won't publish it.  Not much of an open forum here, is it?
Monday, September 04, 2006 1:35 PM by kwitchyerbelliakin

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Well, maybe we need to foucs our resources on the REAL enemy in this?  Fraud is fraud, if you find a thief lets prosecute.  But, what if its you?  Bill Gates never ran for political office but pulls the strings of government.  The Microsoft organization is based on deceipt when its developed its first business plan.  Remember IBM, the diamond of the business machine industry.  They want nothing to do with Microsoft.  Maybe they don't like being your partner i n crime.  In California, conspiracy to commit any crime including is a FELONY.  I am anxious for you to sue me, or I'll file a suit against you.  I am tired of the lies and deceipt.  Lets see, Has a copy of WINDOWS EVER failed?  I know your answer will be NO.  LKets start with this lie.  Go ahead, tell us that Windows failures never occur, and never cause hard ship or expenses.


The biggest problem that most criminals have, is not that they lie to others.  It's that they lie to themselves.

It's too bad you can't smell the stink where you are.  I use the "stink test" all the time.  

This Microsoft organization (WINXP organization) smells like a sewer!

I think it's time to go to LINUX!  No more Microsoft.  We can't trust YOU anymore.

Monday, September 04, 2006 1:43 PM by kwitchyerbelliakin

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

TO: If Microsoft madew an error on ONE case, of validation errors.  That is TOO much.  Where is the mea culpa?  You never admit responsibility!  You are a disgrace.  When I look at all the BLUE SCREENS staring at me in businesses I work for, I wonder CAN EVERYONE BE THIS STUPID?  Or is someone else responsible as well.  Perhaps in the spirit of honesty, we can start by promoting internet filter programs so that our children wont have to listen to the lies and deceipt of a truly criminal organization.  Have you checked the RICO statutes.  The penalties are more than a "fine and a handshake".  Wouldn't it be lovely watch the fear in your face, when another inmate at Pelican Bay prison gets "lonely"?

It would be fun to watch on a LINUX webcam.  
Monday, September 04, 2006 1:52 PM by kwitchyerbelliakin

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

TO: If Microsoft madew an error on ONE case, of validation errors.  That is TOO much.  Where is the mea culpa?  You never admit responsibility!  You are a disgrace.  When I look at all the BLUE SCREENS staring at me in businesses I work for, I wonder CAN EVERYONE BE THIS STUPID?  Or is someone else responsible as well.  Perhaps in the spirit of honesty, we can start by promoting internet filter programs so that our children won't have to listen see to the lies and deceipt of a truly criminal organization.  Have you checked the RICO statutes?  The penalties are more than a "fine and a handshake".  Wouldn't it be lovely to watch the fear in your face, when another inmate at Pelican Bay prison gets "lonely"?

It would be fun to watch on a LINUX webcam!  Oh yeah!  
Thursday, September 07, 2006 5:09 PM by sgunes

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Dear kwitcheryerbelliakin:
You are wasting your time and energy to get through to MS.
I tried to get the WGA problem solved through their forum and was just ignored.
It is obvious that most people who work at MS are extremely arrogant, self-impressed, pompous folks with complete disregard to the paying customers. They sit on their back-dated stock options and laugh all the way to the bank while the company is going down the tubes.
My recommendation:
1. check out Linux and MacOS alternatives, start running Firefox and Openoffice...,
2. do not spend a single penny on any MS product (including Windows mobile, XBox...)
3. tell all your friends and relatives about the arrogance and atrocious customer support at MS and convince them not to buy anything from MS,
4. email the 2 lawfirms that started the class-action lawsuits against MS (just google them: WGA Lawsuits),
5. with a concerted effort the MS earnings will drop to the point that some of these jackasses get fired
6. if we are very luck MS will go the way of Pan Am, Woolworth, Montgomery Ward...

sg
Thursday, September 07, 2006 11:08 PM by anovice

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

I've just had microsoft inform me that my windows xp professional is not legitimate. Since I bought it from Staples, I find the idea that it is not a genuine program to be absurd. No corporation that large and dependent on the good will of businesses sells fake software. It would damage their sales forever.

I've asked a professional to reload the software and work out the problem, but they told me to contact microsoft directly.. everyone was having the same problem, yadda.. yadda... and give microsoft my purchase code etc to clear up the confusion.

Now I am attempting to get through to microsoft for direct help, but can't get through to them.   I don't have time to sit waiting for hours before my turn arrives.  I am a novice and not comfortable with delating and reloading a foundational program like windows without trained guidence.  Meanwhile, the "blue screen" keeps popping up.  Any suggestions?  
Monday, September 11, 2006 9:38 PM by georgej

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

The phase upgrade is not a real term.  When my system DIED, I needed to reinstall it.  With the MB and HD in poor shape I just started over again.  This time MS stated that I had too may copies installed.  1 was running the rest are dead.

Sadly as stated above, the only real way to fix the problem is to give MS more money.

As XP was on sale, I when I bought a copy.  In less time that it took to write this short message the problem was fixed.

MS, just send money, oh, and that does not ensure that your SW will work tomorrow.

Sad state of affairs.  But I do remember the time when most SW never worked, at least MS SW works most of the time.

Just send money.
Wednesday, September 13, 2006 5:54 PM by sgunes

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Or you can start making plans for ridding yourself from MS.
MS is just like the school-yard bully that will keep beating you up until you give him all of your money.
You can either oblige and get these folks richer and more arrogant against the paying customers/suckers or make plans and look into switching to linux or MacOS.
This is what happens when you have a huge monopoly.
Unless paaying customers wake up, it will just get worse.
Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:11 AM by VictoryService

# re: Follow up: When a 'False Positive' isnt' a false positive

Hey So far I am fairly happy with Microsoft. I have been working on computers since DOS 4x was the dominate OS. And Microsoft products keep me in business.

Besides, every time a motherboard or Nic gets updated... A customer's computer fails validation on the next major "windows update" and I get to charge another $65.00 to call tech support for my OEM customer & explain what is going on to some guy in Pakistan or bumf*ck 3rd world no speaky de English country for 30 minutes. Until they give me a validation code & log it into that database of "not false positives" at my shop.

(I’m logging EVERYTHING for the day the Microsoft police kick in my door, I need my evidence on onsite & remote backups.)

Microsoft software combines the software registration with the unique "HARDWARE" address to come up with a validation for the machine. Right? I thought that was a wonderful idea since I HATE software pirates.

Ah, but … what about when my customer uses his/her V.90 modem to register & validate windows? And I have to reinstall after a HD crash or MB replacement? Do I HAVE to use the modem when the computer has a nice Gigabit NIC & I have a Gigabit router in my shop? Oh crud, here comes another 30 minutes teaching Microsoft telephone support people English! After all, Microsoft now thinks my code is on TWO DIFFERENT computers!

Sorry about the sarcasm… Its 2am here, I am still working. I have a Compaq that had a MB failure, original OEM number is for XP Home, Restore CD’s no good (old MB drivers freeze comp) and all I have for XP Home is SP2 & PRO CD’s So, their code is useless to me. (plus the OS on the HD has been upgraded to SP2)

Truth is guys; Microsoft is just trying to protect their software. I don’t want anyone stealing from me either, so I understand.

I just hope they find a better way soon. Because I need some sleep one of these days.

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